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Whatever happened to patience and helping others?
whoamark
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I recently ditched my TR because finding groups has been hell for me. 2 months and two pieces of T2 to show for it, simply because there are too many rogues and too steep of requirements to group.
I was excited to play a CW so I leveled one to 60 in a week, spent about 3 days getting up to 10k gs and learning the basics. I've had no issues doing good damage, but even then I feel the gear dependence when I group with others with 11.5-14k gs. I would absolutely love to run CN and MC, not so much to get all the loot (wouldn't mind it, either), but mainly to experience end-game and meet people.
In the mean time I've got some guildies and we do T2 instances, but last night something left a real sour taste in my mouth. I had two guild mates join a party to which we decided to do Spellplague. On the first pull I break out my singularity on the adds and then start attacking as normally -- big mistake. The cleric immediately rages that I need to use singularity near the cliff edge and then push the adds off or the instance isn't worth his time, or anyone elses.
Not a big deal. I haven't had to push anything off ledges before but I've seen plenty of wizards do it on my rogue. Amidst of the chaos of red circles and red cones I get to the ledge where the GF has the adds ready. I go to do my singularity when something goes wrong and my shield ends up pushing them short of falling, at which point the DC and a guild mate leave the dungeon, calling me out.
This game. I feel as though I've never had problems devoting time to a game and learning my class, a little bumps here or there but I get through it. I find the gear score requirements and the expectations for one to know how to exploit, push or whatever on queue ridiculous. I rarely see patience in people who play this game, and I get it, there are ten thousand adds and some first or second bosses are harder than the last bosses, which is why I usually go along with whatever exploit is happening, but this really bothered me.
I've felt unmotivated to play since, but I'm going to play tonight and attempt more T2s.
As it is I feel like gearing up for T2s is a headache. The impatience is pressuring, and annoying.
I was excited to play a CW so I leveled one to 60 in a week, spent about 3 days getting up to 10k gs and learning the basics. I've had no issues doing good damage, but even then I feel the gear dependence when I group with others with 11.5-14k gs. I would absolutely love to run CN and MC, not so much to get all the loot (wouldn't mind it, either), but mainly to experience end-game and meet people.
In the mean time I've got some guildies and we do T2 instances, but last night something left a real sour taste in my mouth. I had two guild mates join a party to which we decided to do Spellplague. On the first pull I break out my singularity on the adds and then start attacking as normally -- big mistake. The cleric immediately rages that I need to use singularity near the cliff edge and then push the adds off or the instance isn't worth his time, or anyone elses.
Not a big deal. I haven't had to push anything off ledges before but I've seen plenty of wizards do it on my rogue. Amidst of the chaos of red circles and red cones I get to the ledge where the GF has the adds ready. I go to do my singularity when something goes wrong and my shield ends up pushing them short of falling, at which point the DC and a guild mate leave the dungeon, calling me out.
This game. I feel as though I've never had problems devoting time to a game and learning my class, a little bumps here or there but I get through it. I find the gear score requirements and the expectations for one to know how to exploit, push or whatever on queue ridiculous. I rarely see patience in people who play this game, and I get it, there are ten thousand adds and some first or second bosses are harder than the last bosses, which is why I usually go along with whatever exploit is happening, but this really bothered me.
I've felt unmotivated to play since, but I'm going to play tonight and attempt more T2s.
As it is I feel like gearing up for T2s is a headache. The impatience is pressuring, and annoying.
Post edited by whoamark on
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I've met some overly geared players in the Cloak Tower epic instance, rushing through the dungeon rolling need on everything that they can while telling us to rush because it's not worth the time to take it easy which makes me wonder why they even bother doing the instance if they're not interested in collecting all the drops.
Just look at the title of your thread, what happened to patience?
Sounds like you joined a pretty elitist guild who didn't even bother asking if you ever ran the dungeon before. Any guild worth joining should be willing to teach it's members different strategies rather than holding a person accountable for inexperience when they did not take the time out to even inform the members of the guild.
Alternatively, however, I would advise you to always state when you have not done a boss before.
There will always be some jerk that throws a fit at the mere mention of a first time player, best of luck to them with their lives because that won't be tolerated in the real world, but there's nothing worse than entering a boss and showing just how inexperienced you are.
Any group that wants to be successful will take a few minutes to explain a fight. If they don't then smile and know that they'll end up leaving the game long before you ever have to see them again.
If you join a decent guild, elitist or not, any group that wants to succeed will bring in members based in how they perform with instructions. If there's no instructions then the fault is completely on them and the guild will not survive.
So join a guild that actually wants to do well. There's always going to be impatient elitist people in every game who think they're above teaching new blood. If you let that stop you from playing and enjoying a game then you will never enjoy any Online Multiplayer Game so shrug it off and find players you can enjoy playing with.
Aquillazx, it's best to actually do the dungeons before responding to something like this.
Spellplague is outright designed to require pushing off. It's completely intended and would be outright impossible without using such a technique. I can understand thinking otherwise but Heroic Dungeons, Tier 1 Dungeons and Tier 2's are completely incomparable.
Cloaktower, in all honesty, isn't even worthy of the "Epic" title.
To put things into perspective, a rogue in my guild, which is a casual guild FYI, soloed Epic Cloak Tower.
I've done the Spellplague Caverns on normal ( not that that can be compared to epic ) but for as far as memory serves the final fight did have alot of adds but they didn't attack or anything, just stood there being creepy. Can't really remember any mobs that really needed to get pushed off ledges on the way to the boss either, maybe for shortening the run?
So unless things get really insane in the run from start to boss in the epic version, or if maybe the creepy guys start hitting at the boss fight then I don't see any reason for pushing off mobs other then to rush it.
Also I just used the Cloak Tower as an example, nothing more :P
And I do mean nothing.
It's a difficult fight even if you toss mobs off. And the adds are deadly.
The boss fights are distinctly different in Tier 2's than Heroic's or Tier 1. It's not simply a buff of monster strengths but also a massive increase in adds, frequency of adds and demands much more from a group and players overall than anything else in the game. Experiences outside of Tier 2's are so incomparable it's not apples to oranges but apples to rocks.
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Heck they take me on t2 runs and since NWN2 I have basically played no games at all.
We also recognise GS helps, but know that skill>gs and so work to build skill over GS.
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A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I am an Everquest Veteran so I have been around for years of MMO evolution. During the days of Everquest it was common to communicate and help people understand things. This was not because people were helpful and amazingly caring people. It was because the overall design and pacing of the game supported and natural pace as well as a really close community feeling.
The only way this behavior will return is if designers start slowing the pace down and making it so people have to spend longer periods of time together to overcome obstacles. This is highly unlikely given the trends in MMOs. IN fact as far as trends go it will only get worse over time and people will become even more impatient.
personally i like to take time and teach friends and new people; however, not so many has patience nowadays.
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One side has been mentioned a lot now, that it would be great if the experienced would communicate tactics etc. to the less experienced player. I agree with that, and I’ve often found myself doing tactics in T2’s when someone says they’re new to the dungeon, with the sideeffect that the experienced players in the group get impatient and doesn’t wanna “waste time talking, when we could be fighting”. It is a problem however, at least as for groups formed by the queue system, that there are plenty of players with limited ability to understand and communicate in English. And I’m sure they’re just as frustrated at me, when they bark orders at me in Polish, Spanish etc. Makes me yearn for a tickbox for the queue system to select which languages you can speak, so you can queue up with people you can actually communicate with.
The other side of the coin, which has not been touched as much in this thread so far, is that players can take responsibility for their own performance – by making sure they won’t be “That girl/guy that ruins everything”. There are plenty of opportunities to read up on boss tactics on wiki, watch youtube vids of the bossfights etc. to make sure you’re prepared for the dungeon before you enter it. I played WoW on a private server some time ago, and when it was announced that heroic modes for the raid Icecrown Citadel would open soon, I carefully read up on the differences between normal and heroic modes for all fights, so I knew exactly how to act. Sure, I could have just counted on other people being helpful and carry me through it, but sometimes it doesn’t work out that way, so better take responsibility for my own performance.
I have read up both here in the Forum and the Wiki how to fight a boss, only to never get with a group that actually follows that. Players can slow down the pace themselves, but you have to find the right group/guild. It would be nice if guilds were the solution to the lack of mentoring, but often as not they are prime contributors to the problem. Patience is a virtue that has been classified as old fashioned and has been consigned to the dustbin right along side selflessness.
In this instance it was frustrating that one of the two guildmates left, but it's more a problem with community. By this I mean the queue systems and LFG channel, as this sort of thing is far too frequent with players in general.
Apparently so has diligence and a lack of generalising. My experience is rather different to yours. Yes, I've come across some crappy groups. And yes the lack of sufficient enforcement of the rules is a large part of why I don't spend on this game. But while happens more often than I'd like, it's hardly the norm in my experience.
"Young people....." - Erik Lehnsherr
Slot it with rank 5 on utility and defense slots. Get any rings/neck/belt that gives crit and armor pen and slot them with rank 5 armor penetration. Get your first 2 boons. Tadaa...your are 10k GS+
Go on LFG channel, make a party and ask for 10k+ players. You are good to go for T2s.
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You need a party to get in. To have a crack at soloing, you simply arrange to have the others leave you in there alone after queuing. Or they could hang out and watch but not intervene.
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Well if you adapt your playstyle then it should not be a big problem. But I can understand that really. Lately I often see CWs in pugs that don't control anything at all, they "just" do damage. I play a DC and my role is healing isn't it? I'd also like to deal damage but in a group with only one healer I need to heal or my party will fail. And that is also true for CWs - if you don't control adds why are you in the group? Last SP I played was a CW that didn't control any adds. I just saw lightnings in front of him. We told him, he should change his loadout so he can basically knock them off and CC them. But yet he kept to continue to do what he was doing. That made the whole life of the rest of the party really hard because the adds just where everywhere.
Also when you do boss fights and don't see that the CW is trying to CC the adds, pile them up, knock them away from the healer... then this is basically the wrong role he plays (if he is solo even worse). Guess how people would rage if I would never cast any Astral Shield or any heal based ability?
People need to learn to play their roles. If they want to to pure damage they should not take a CW - at least they should not just go into dungeons with it where they are the only CW.
But all the time i see this "Need CW HV/stone exped plz"
How the hell are wizards supposed to gain that experience if you demand everyone to already have it?
How the hell wizards are supposed to wear the HV set when we're gonna make the run that gives part of that set as a reward?
So basically i need to pay real money, somehow convert them to AD, buy the set from AH and go to dungeons to grind that exact set? Where is the logic? What is the fun of doing that at all?
That's always been my question in every MMO.
Typically it's "newb" this and "newb" that. Wasn't everybody a "newb" at some point in time? *shrugs*
I never understodd why people wanted to push newer players down rather than pick them up.
As for paying to win, you can buy all the best gear you want. It's not going to teach you the strategies or combos.
IMO there's a balance players need between gear and playskill. Gear can allow players to overcome bad playskill but in the same way players with high playskill can overcome low gear score. But there's a difference between playskill and comprehension. The OP could be the best CW in the game but without having an understanding of the strategy he might as well be a five year old playing wearing no items at all.
I have to agree about discussing strategies, though. As I said in my initial post I am in a casual guild but we have a group of players who actively pushes the top tier end game content. And by group I mean 5 players within the guild who are working together to max out their gear to the point we can carry some of the other players in the guild through to teach them the fights and get the gear.
Every time we enter a boss fight we still do a quick check list of duties. There isn't a single boss which we don't make sure we know what we're all doing even though it's the same five people and we've done every single dungeon anywhere between a dozen to a dozen, dozen times together. At this point we are literally so used to playing we literally know each others actions before it happens but despite this we still discuss strategy, no matter how briefly, before each and every single boss fight.
There is no logic to that, nor is it any fun. I do not play that way. I prefer to get my gear by going thru the dungeon, rather than buying it. I will either queue up, or assemble my own party rather than run with one that requests all of the same cookie cutter players.
Good attitude, play and enjoy.
I'm enjoying my Champion Mage set and don't see why I would want to downgrade to the HV set. Sure, those three stacks are mighty useful but with the exploit fixed what is the point?
I've done SP without the pushing up till the last boss. On the last boss the purple creeps the the glowing redish creeps are enough issue to want to just get rid of them. The last boss is the only location that we 'needed' to push anything off of the edge. On my DC because I knew the fight well enough, I was able to assist with some of the pushes and knew which mobs I could safely toss outside of a sing/close to the boss without having it blow up in my face with me only ending up with aggro.
If you havent run with a guildy through something - its best to assume they havent done it before, ask, and give instructions as needed.
Youtube doesnt always tell what skills are being used, how or why, the party you're with can.
I ran my TR till she had full T2 set (still need rings/weapon) and more importantly, till I'd seen/learned enough of the tricks to be confident with my DC, and my CW when she gets of level.
You don't have to be a pro to understand the roles of classes. But you need to be able to read. Check all the abilities you have and the description of you class to see what its main role seems to be. And then just play smart. If you see that there are adds around you in masses and you know you have the perfect abilities to deal with them, why not slot them and deal with them then??
It's the old "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime" adage. Each person that takes the time to show another what strategies and powers work best potentially improves the play experience of everyone else who plays with that person, (provided they take those lessons to heart, of course). Then perhaps they pass on that knowledge, and the cycle continues.
It's for just this reason that I encourage all to use the NW_Legit_Community channel and share their knowledge and experience!
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The OP and I were referring to the boss fight.