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DC Patch Wishlist
vorphied
Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
Since everyone is busy theorycrafting in the General Gameplay and PvP Discussion thread, I feel inspired to make a list of personally desired fixes and tweaks that may or may not ever happen.
I actually tried to think of something I thought needed nerfing so as not to have a complete DC love fest, but I'm challenged to think of any areas in which the class can be considered overpowered in its current state.
- Armor Penetration fixed to work normally with all powers.
- Hammer of Fate reworked with a mechanic similar to Shocking Execution, delivering respectable damage that bypasses resistances but functioning best as a finisher by scaling damage upwards with the target's missing health.
- Guardian of Faith's animation time hastened, attack/CC component expanded to be an AoE rather than single-target, making it a more viable option. A brief, single-target prone with weak damage and a weak AoE heal is usually not worth the AP expenditure when you could cast almost anything else.
- Righteousness overhauled. Removed (no self-heal debuff), mitigated (e.g. 25% self heal debuff), or balanced by adding a beneficial component such as a % chance to ignore a CC effect (e.g. "blocked" or "immune" status on proc).
- Terrifying Insight stacks last a few seconds longer. They currently fall off very quickly.
- Flamestrike's central splat increased to Divine Daunting Light's radius.
- Chains of Blazing Light no longer reduces its damage by number of targets affected. Why anyone thought this was needful in the first place I honestly don't understand.
- Eliminate need for DCs to pray at a campfire or portable altar (minor nitpick, but worth it for flavor purposes :P)
- Cleric feats reexamined, overhauled (too big of a topic to go into specifics here, but there are good reasons why the community overwhelmingly favors certain feat builds over the remaining alternatives, and said alternatives could use some tweaking/buffing to encourage diversity).
I actually tried to think of something I thought needed nerfing so as not to have a complete DC love fest, but I'm challenged to think of any areas in which the class can be considered overpowered in its current state.
- Armor Penetration fixed to work normally with all powers.
- Hammer of Fate reworked with a mechanic similar to Shocking Execution, delivering respectable damage that bypasses resistances but functioning best as a finisher by scaling damage upwards with the target's missing health.
- Guardian of Faith's animation time hastened, attack/CC component expanded to be an AoE rather than single-target, making it a more viable option. A brief, single-target prone with weak damage and a weak AoE heal is usually not worth the AP expenditure when you could cast almost anything else.
- Righteousness overhauled. Removed (no self-heal debuff), mitigated (e.g. 25% self heal debuff), or balanced by adding a beneficial component such as a % chance to ignore a CC effect (e.g. "blocked" or "immune" status on proc).
- Terrifying Insight stacks last a few seconds longer. They currently fall off very quickly.
- Flamestrike's central splat increased to Divine Daunting Light's radius.
- Chains of Blazing Light no longer reduces its damage by number of targets affected. Why anyone thought this was needful in the first place I honestly don't understand.
- Eliminate need for DCs to pray at a campfire or portable altar (minor nitpick, but worth it for flavor purposes :P)
- Cleric feats reexamined, overhauled (too big of a topic to go into specifics here, but there are good reasons why the community overwhelmingly favors certain feat builds over the remaining alternatives, and said alternatives could use some tweaking/buffing to encourage diversity).
Sacrilege - Warlock
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
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25% righteousness sounds reasonable ..40% is too big. But removed? means we will see some immortal DCs here. Talking about easier dungeons ( as if they weren't easy enough) because clerics would tank anything with their 100% heals and 2k+ defense.
Bwahahahahahahah! ....I mean the part about removing righteousness making clerics tanky enough to tank anything. Really.
Some immortal DCs, maybe. Many? No. If you're geared up the wazoo, and specced for heals, then you pretty much deserve to be unkillable. As it is, you're better off stacking regen than investing in self-healing, which is just a stupid state of affairs.
Think it will be too much, if these clerics become more untouchable...
I'd suggest a buff on potion usage, e.g. -40% on selfheal, but +20% on (heal)potions - or something like that - think it shouldn't be too much on PvP, but still fair..
Unless you stack regen by wearing blues, or spec exclusively for defense/deflect (see GCTRL's builds, for instance), PvP for DCs is pretty much "wormfood until in absolute BiS gear, whereupon you become semi-unkillable". There's no power curve, it's a power cliff.
Also, most "unkillable" DCs are running in premades. When you have team that actually supports you, it's vastly, vastly easier. Even a BiS cleric is going to get floored fairly frequently if they pug it.
And besides, righteousness was never designed to balance PvP, it was to increase potion use. The fact that SOME clerics have managed to find ways to make life bearable in PvP even with righteousness is a testament to the ingenuity of players, not to the effectiveness of righteousness.
So it is ok to be unkillable. Then it would be ok having a class that is immortal in PvP and tanking dungeons allowing everyone to easy mode clear the dungeons even faster. Yeah, lets remove righteousness and spec for DPS. Since having 100% self heal, we wouldn't even need regen nor big defense, we can replace them with armor pen.
PS. being super tanky cleric is very cheap. Check GCTRL guide. Any average player can get the gear, and with righteousness removed, the job is even easier.
Not sure if a troll or completely ignorant...but my cleric can tank better than GFs currently
What is your claim based on? Did one of the developers mention that somewhere?
That's why it should never be removed. Because every <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> will be able to tank even with PvE specs.
Can you become extra tanky? Sure. Can you become impossible for the average PUG or otherwise poorly coordinated team with poor-to-average gear to kill? Definitely.
Does this translate to immortality when facing premades of equal gear and skill? Not so much. It takes less effort to kill even the tankiest support DC than it does to take down a BiS Sentinel GWF. The way some people talk about tank clerics makes it sound like they're running around with minimal team support tanking entire premades, and this is only the case when there's a big gap in gear and skill.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
GCTRL's build doesn't even bother with teamplay nuances much, these things should be intuitive for anyone claiming to understand how PvP battles can go. His guide focuses on gearing/building the cleric in such a way that it can hold/contest points for a reasonable amount of time.
As you seem to be saying, all of the above is pretty much a given. Not sure what prompted the paragraph on team play. The scenario you describe holds true of pretty much any class in a coordinated team. Besides, where is your team in this scenario, countering these tactics? You make it sound like 1v5.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Well, if your way of handling enemy clerics is staring/charging in alone, I can understand why you have a problem killing them.. Move the cleric from the cirkle(s) and CC him/her to death. Entangling force and Repell are perfect for this, and the cleric can't heal himself, nor anyone else while choked.
What most people fail to realize is that clerics are not tanky because of healing, but due to the massive amount of DR, 1500 Def, Astral shield and HG up at once means he'll be at around 70% Damage reduction, which means they take less than half the damage they normally takes. Righteousness don't change this, all it does is making us unable to heal ourselves out of combat.
TLDR: How to kill a DC in PvP, move him/her from cirkles, stun to death, gg.
My chains already do quite a lot of damage to many targets. I've seen 6-8k crits dealt to the max number of targets so i don't know.
The cleric who stands still and takes everything thrown at them will die all day everyday. But a good cleric will not let themselves get CC'd so easily(they will time their dodges appropriately, position themselves well, have map awareness, etc). Couple that with good team support (ie. if a GF is trying to prone your Cleric, you prone the GF) and a build that helps to mitigate damage as much as possible, and yes, you can start considering yourself unkillable (in a practical sense).
Another thing to note is that only a GF can knock a DC out of their circle effectively (using Bull Charge, which is one of the easiest abilities to dodge in the game) yes a CW can with repel, but no self-respecting CW will be using that skill at 60 if they know anything about their class, especially in Premade vs Premade scenarios. Basically this means, if you can dodge/avoid one attack in the game you will always be able to stay where you want to. -> I don't count sunburst in here because the knockback is negligible in terms of how long you're out of position and it doesnt prone you.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
We we can do is what any other class can do: go with a full defense build and be very hardy. However in doing so, we sacrifice a lot of damage and a good bit of healing. It's important to realize that any of the classes could do this. This is not something special that only a DC can do. We are not "tanky" because of our self-healing. In fact, I seriously doubt more self-healing would make defensive clerics much tougher. As was said earlier, most of their toughness comes from high HP, defense, and regeneration. What is would do is would make normal DC builds tougher.
Unless it's already been fixed (I haven't logged in for a few days), you need to add to the list:
- Flamestrike: This ability can now critically hit.
- Repurpose Soul: This feat now properly procs off all powers. (Specifically Daunting Light, Chains, and Flamestrike.)
- Repurpose Soul: This ability now heals for 15% of the total damage dealt, including bonus damage from defense debuffs.
- Divine Armor: Correctly grants additional Temporary HP at Ranks 2 and 3.
Some other good ideas:
- Bastion of Health and Divine Armor: These powers are no longer targeted, and instead affect all allies within 80' of the cleric.
- Repurpose Soul: Now always heals the you, and heals allies within the area of effect.
- Chains of Blazing Light: Ranks 2 and 3 each add +1 second to the duration of the immobilize effect.
- Brand of the Sun: Now grants 50% of the total Divine Power upon initial damage, but the amount granted over time is reduced by 50%.
- Break the Spirit: The duration of the stun effect is increased to 2 seconds, with ranks 2 and 3 each adding +1 second. The slow effect begins after the stun expires.
- Forgemaster's Flame: The slow affects all enemies in a small area of affect around the target.
- Prophecy of Doom: Now gives some AP when dealing damage.
- Sacred Flame: The amount of Temporary HP granted has been increased, and now scales with the damage of the power.
- Domain Synergy: Now gives 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% more Recharge Speed Increase rather than Recovery.
- Restoration Mastery: Now gives 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% Damage Resist bonus rather than Defense.
Those are just off the top of my head. I could probably go on and on. lol
How is it more useful than automatically affecting everyone that would be in range of the targeting circle? I think the furthest distance the targeting circle reaches is 80', which is why I put down that number. My suggestion would make it simpler to use and also have a larger AoE (potentially affecting more targets).
1. A party rezz + HoT that doesn't force me to stand next to an enemy (a daily or whatever).
2. A REAL direct heal (no HoT).
I am just fed up how they ignore or indefinitely postpone fixing all the glaring bugs with our basic mechanics, yet they go after bugs that hardly have any effect beyond making the game less miserable to play.
Uuuhm, yeah...
If the divinity costs for these "at wills" (they really aren't "at wills") aren't removed, they at least need to be reduced dramatically.
I would also like to see the DC casting animation shortened. <--- unlikely to happen
Yeah, this'd work quite well, to be honest. Make em free to use, but generate zero divinity (otherwise you'd probably never leave divine mode: put a brick on LMB, point at monster, stick down blue circles as needed).
- to have arpen works
- to don't have rightousnesssss
the rest it's ok and wonderful
Having those two fixed would be great, but the rest is far from ok.
There are so many thing that should be fixed I wont even try to list them, but my top 3 are:
Flamestrike - please devs make it crit again
Righteousness - as already said, not healing makes tanky clerics hard to kill in pvp
Repurpose soul - it doesn't work with ...almost everything
Works fine for me. Did you try to slot the passive in the second feat slot? Have you tried changing your second class feature? I'm using it sometimes, especially against fulminorax, and haven't seen any issue with it. If you're trying to heal people who didn't take any damage you're not going to get anything though. If the yellow shield is giving you divinity then divine fortune works.
It may also be your armor set or something completely different (since pvp sets give you extra divinity, it might break something), and if you find why it doesn't work then i suggest you make a detailed bug report, because this class feature works for all of the DCs i know.
I believe the original design was to make Punishing Light the right-click power, and then tabbing to divine mode would change it to Soothing Light. So you end up such that divine mode is for healing and normal mode is for damage. If that were the case now, you'd end up having to tab to switch between your at-will slots, and I'm not sure if that's worth the hassle. But you could forgo LoF or SF and use PL as your main attack. Then Astral Seal could take the LMB in divine mode, and BotS in normal mode. But under that model, it could make sense for Punishing Light to build DP, but Soothing Light should still be free to use even if it doesn't consume DP. As as trade-off you could say your other divine mode at-will doesn't build DP either.
Of course I would also like to see the option to HOLD tab for divine mode rather than only toggle between.
I believe the walk-while-channeling mechanic for the beams is the answer to the DC's problem with getting CC'd all the time, but as I said before, neither of them are worth spending DP on. Being able to walk out of a red circle or slowly move away from an attacker is a significant advantage. I actually surprised this hasn't already been nerfed.
I have intentionally said not a peep about this, ever, for fear that someone will yell for it to be nerfed ala TRs running while Cloud-of-Steeling. It's the only thing that makes up for slow movement speed in divinity.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Divine Fortune's effect only triggers during combat mode, and it shares this property with a few other powers/feats, like Linked Spirit.
Both Punishing/Soothing Light are core powers in my build, and removing their DP cost would be a bit like giving me back my old Sunburst. On top of everything else already mentioned I rely heavily on these two to convert any extra DP I have into AP.
I wouldn't underestimate Soothing/Punishing Light's heal. Both can proc Repurpose Soul with each tick, and a stream of crits = a massive stream of (AoE) healing. Not particularly reliable, but still 1 more potential panic button for us.
^This ^ is what I have been thinking. Though, I honestly didn't think anyone else would have said it. I'm not very good with balancing out all the nickels and dimes of encounters and moves and such. I'm more of a mechanic thinker and I definitely think this mechanic should be implemented in some way. Whether it be a single rez or party rez, I think it should be a daily power (maybe for a new paragon path?
Also, me being a game mechanic thinking more than microing and balancing all the nickels and dimes in the overall budget, I think that your chosen deity should have more of an impact for a cleric rather than just RP. Say perhaps a normal cleric can only do a single rez encounter/daily (if that were to ever be implemented), then a Kelemvorite cleric could do a full party rez and/or do rezs past the timer when the person is officially dead. The idea is fresh in my head, coming to me as I've been writing this, so I've not fleshed it out in any way, though if you like the idea, then feel free to input and help flesh out the idea as well. This is a community wish list after all, let's get creative!
Knowing this game, perma-beam punishing light would lead to the loudest, fastest, "DC are OP" nerfgasm in the history of such things due to the pvp utility. Beaming somebody with a BOTS and break the spirit already eating them, combined with damage modifiers (terrifying insight, defense debuffs etc) leads to some useful damage - even for a tanky DC with all the power and crit of a dying baby bird. Even without the dots it hurts. And you can move while you do it. As much as I don't love the divinity mechanic at all (apart from the skill challenge aspect), I think perma-beams are a step too far for a skill that can be sustained while moving. Having it perma but only useable while stationary would be similarly a bad thing.
But it would be amazing and I'd love it till it got nerfed hard to 1/4 damage or elmo tickles or something.