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Changes I would like to see with loot n' stuff
henzai
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 154
We need an overhaul of the purple gear because at the moment there's just no purpose for it, many are literally worthless in the auction and everybody gets at least 1 drop if they finish a delve started during bonus hour. We can't have that, but Cryptic would have a hard time if they nerfed the current system as much as it is needed to be as well.
Well, I might have a solution for that:
ARTIFACTS
Why not create a brand new class of equipment that is strictly bound on pickup and has an infini-small droprate (and it might be a good idea to make it so that the end of delve chests can't drop it at all). Then make it so that this piece of gear works like 4e magic items does, and it grants you new encounter and/or dailies to use for your character. A perfect example would be Aigis fang. Make it so that Aegis fang gives you a daily where you throw it and it does an incredible amount of damage.
I would also like to see "Dragon gear" from professions where you can grind the named dragons and then they all have a specific armor+weapon set that can be made from them, let those be T1 - ARTIFACT depending in how well you succeed with the profession.
This would greatly improve the endgame gear-wise and would make for more varied builds together with the paragon paths that we'll get.
RITUALS
Let's have some rare ritual items drop which would allows us to do tasks which would create/modify gear based on the obscene tasks we do. It doesn't even need to be drops per say (though I think each ritual should have at least one very rare item drop requirement unless they also permit low level rituals) but it could be based on the number of monsters slain or the amount of damage given/taken.
For instance if you killed 2K Orcs, Goblins and Gnolls you could add a certain "Ritual Effect" to an armor/weapon which could be functional and/or cosmetic.
This could solve a lot of the "Trash Mobs are useless" standpoints and give players a reason to farm Trash Mobs.
If These changes get implemented the delve hour grind would be lessened and there might even be a possibility that we could get rid of the promised purple without too much noise! Or we could at least make the repetitive hour less frequent if the best gear was equally hard to get during all delves and people would be going for that when there wasn't an bonus!
Well, I might have a solution for that:
ARTIFACTS
Why not create a brand new class of equipment that is strictly bound on pickup and has an infini-small droprate (and it might be a good idea to make it so that the end of delve chests can't drop it at all). Then make it so that this piece of gear works like 4e magic items does, and it grants you new encounter and/or dailies to use for your character. A perfect example would be Aigis fang. Make it so that Aegis fang gives you a daily where you throw it and it does an incredible amount of damage.
I would also like to see "Dragon gear" from professions where you can grind the named dragons and then they all have a specific armor+weapon set that can be made from them, let those be T1 - ARTIFACT depending in how well you succeed with the profession.
This would greatly improve the endgame gear-wise and would make for more varied builds together with the paragon paths that we'll get.
RITUALS
Let's have some rare ritual items drop which would allows us to do tasks which would create/modify gear based on the obscene tasks we do. It doesn't even need to be drops per say (though I think each ritual should have at least one very rare item drop requirement unless they also permit low level rituals) but it could be based on the number of monsters slain or the amount of damage given/taken.
For instance if you killed 2K Orcs, Goblins and Gnolls you could add a certain "Ritual Effect" to an armor/weapon which could be functional and/or cosmetic.
This could solve a lot of the "Trash Mobs are useless" standpoints and give players a reason to farm Trash Mobs.
If These changes get implemented the delve hour grind would be lessened and there might even be a possibility that we could get rid of the promised purple without too much noise! Or we could at least make the repetitive hour less frequent if the best gear was equally hard to get during all delves and people would be going for that when there wasn't an bonus!
psyb3rtr011 wrote: »Great idea, and I would like to add some nuanced additions the Ritual Effect: These could be Rune Stones that you add to Armor or Weapon that give you Bonuses ONLY against said creatures (Only one per). Orc Slaying or Orc Defender for instance, or Undead Slaying and Undead regeneration. This would be in addition to the normal slots for an item, and would only work when attacking of Defending against a creature of this time.
Best of all, these could be capped at a certain level, once you have slain 1,000, 5,000 or 10,000 of a creature as if a Runestone or Enchantment like such:
Orc Slaying (Critical Strike)/Defender (Defense):
50 - Level One Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
100 - Level Two Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
250 - Level Three Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
500 - Level Four Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
1,000 - Level Five Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
2,500 - Level Six Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
5,000 - Level Seven Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
10,000 - Level Eight Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
or
Undead Slaying (Power Strike)/Regeneration (Regeneration):
50 - Level One Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
100 - Level Two Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
250 - Level Three Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
500 - Level Four Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
1,000 - Level Five Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
2,500 - Level Six Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
5,000 - Level Seven Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
10,000 - Level Eight Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Some kind of rarer achievements for doing delves and such which can't be bought and encourages clearing dungeons and simply doing dungeons outside of Dungeon Delves is a step in the right direction in my books.
I do agree some changes to the epic gear could benefit the game, but to say there's no purpose for epic gear and to say it's worthless on AH, makes me question whether or not you've done any T2 dungeons or castle never. There is indeed some loot that is worthless and some that there isn't much purpose for, but this has more to do with teh allocation of stats and the fact that items that have crit/arm pen/power/recovery are the BIS for every class in the game. Thus the other items that don't have 3 of those stats are generally useless (to most players), and are considerably less in demand in teh economy.
Good idea but I personally disagree with making anything BoP. All it does is force players to repeat content hoping that this run the RNG favors them. I don't see the advantage to the playerbase of having an item that changes class mechanics in this way BOP vs. BOE with teh same low drop rate.
Glad you like the ideas
You missunderstood there, but i can see why when a term can be interpreted in at least 2 ways. With worthless i meant what it sells for, monetary worthlessness, no need to insult me, that'll just start a flamewar, and we don't need that
In some aspects i can agree with what you're saying here, but to gain control over the purple plague that is currently ravishing the AH we need drastic changes. I'm all for making the current purples blue instead and let previously mentioned ideas be purple. That way there's a great way to give us purples at lover lewels as well, that'd be awesome ^_^
During delve times, that end chest, may hold a t1 item if you are running a t1 dungeon. but hell it could drop a waste of a blue also, and not even a t1.
The only benefit of a delve, is that everyone gets a piece of loot. It is already the only time worth doing a delve at all. Making artifacts and such, wouldn't help this. Its already a very long time, and considering the vast majority of pugs are useless in any dungeon, should things be changed, I wouldn't dare run them without better rewards than even more grinding for little or no gain.
Wasn't really meant to insult you. I do agree however that the delve chest needs to be less relevant to acquiring BiS items. What I don't understand is why you made your post claiming that purples on teh AH are worthless, yet if this were actually true, the delve chest wouldn't be of value.
Part of the deal is any such items should not be made available in the chest. It should be a random drop that is given to players at random and isn't even rolled for thus rewarding players who actually play the content.
That is the entire point of the BoP. To give reason to do the content by giving higher end rewards to those who spend a decent amount of time partaking in activities within the game rather than simply giving more items which will be grinded out and become less and less worthwhile.
The best items in the game should be available on the Auction House. They should require massive amounts of time investment in order to give players long term goals.
<Removed Off Topic Posts. This thread isn't about pricing>
"We need an overhaul of the purple gear because at the moment there's just no purpose for it, it's literally worthless in the auction"
I agree with you on that point, bind to account is what it should be, at least from the end delve chest.
Let me see if i can make it clearer to you: one of the problems I'm trying to address with this thread is the HUMONGOUS inflation the "rare" drops have seen in the game, it is to be expected, of course. The other thing I'm trying do get at is just the fact that I don't like the end delve chest. Rare drops should be rare and right now they aren't. The only drops really worth the purple are the CN drops. I for one don't want AH to be flooded with cheap purples, I want purples to be exotic and AH to be flooded with expensive blues and fairly prized greens.
That's actually because all sentences after that one isn't about prizing. If we used that kind of judgement of a book lord of the rings would be about a birthday party
Everything after your first sentence is a solution to your first sentence. So yes, they are about pricing.
I would reply to your other comments but I dont' see the point as my post that took about 10-15 minutes to retrieve data from the in game AH and post it on here with a good quality post simply was edited because it's not "on-topic"
Here is a thing, lots of people do delves, get lots of items they don't want for their set, and then you want to make it bound to account? the only thing we can do then is sell it to a shop for gold which is nearly worthless in this game. At least we can sell it on the ah for cheap, with all the others there, so someone else that CAN use it, can buy it with the ad they spent time gathering, and more time than it took me to run the dungeon.
the system as it is works flawlessly. The better items, and the ones in demand, ARE expensive, and if you only have dailies / leadership to work with for getting ad, and also dungeons getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items you don't want to sell on ah, then you are looking at it taking a long time to get a good set you want.
p.s... that's not counting enchantments. 10mil for a perfect, or level 10 etc et al.
binding worthless items to a character or account fixes nothing. just makes it so less items on ah, less reason to have ad to begin with, less people buying zen to get expensive items they can no longer get, less profit for cryptic, less to be gotten by people who hate dungeon times / don't have time to run a dungeon etc et al.
See where I am getting? you fix nothing, and ruin the greater majority of everything.
He stated that many of the drops are next to worthless, especially compared to the effort required to gain them, so citing a handful that are worth the time investment but are extremely rare isn't on topic. You basically said here's a few exceptions so you're claim is wrong.
Dungeons are consistently stated to be more effort than the rewards are worth. Trash mobs are constantly spit upon as not giving enough incentive to kill them. The OP has given some decent proposed solutions to give incentives to do dungeons for rewards which aren't available from the chest. And that's the point of this thread.
Feel free to add to that but saying that a handful of items which rarely drop and/or are in the harder dungeons mutes the point of the rest of the thread is fighting over one sentence in the entire thread. The thread topic is to improve the loot system and incentives to do dungeons. The pricing is a biproduct which is more off topic than anything else.
I suggest you read his post again.
He didn't say anything to make current items BoP.
He said make additional, rarer and better gear which must be earned by actually completing content.
You seem to have missed the point here. I know how the system works ATM and most of it won't change, probably. That's the reason I have expressed my desire to get another tier of equipment and make it more desirable than the T1's and T2's we get for free on AH, if you ask me the purples aren't what purples in a D&D game is supposed to be. These games are about defying gods and saving worlds, these games are about grinding for gold, loot, whatever and finally get JUST the swort/spear/wand/mace/[insert.rndm.utility] you wanted with just the enchantments you wanted and to be able to use it just as you please. Take wolfgars weapon... it's an unthrowable weapon with returning... THAT'S AWESOME!!!! I propose we put that in, If you missed that part I must ask you to read through this again, you got stuck on a sentence that wasn't even in the first post and it's really only about the first post
Great idea, and I would like to add some nuanced additions the Ritual Effect: These could be Rune Stones that you add to Armor or Weapon that give you Bonuses ONLY against said creatures (Only one per). Orc Slaying or Orc Defender for instance, or Undead Slaying and Undead regeneration. This would be in addition to the normal slots for an item, and would only work when attacking of Defending against a creature of this time.
Best of all, these could be capped at a certain level, once you have slain 1,000, 5,000 or 10,000 of a creature as if a Runestone or Enchantment like such:
Orc Slaying (Critical Strike)/Defender (Defense):
50 - Level One Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
100 - Level Two Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
250 - Level Three Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
500 - Level Four Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
1,000 - Level Five Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
2,500 - Level Six Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
5,000 - Level Seven Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
10,000 - Level Eight Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
or
Undead Slaying (Power Strike)/Regeneration (Regeneration):
50 - Level One Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
100 - Level Two Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
250 - Level Three Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
500 - Level Four Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
1,000 - Level Five Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
2,500 - Level Six Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
5,000 - Level Seven Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
10,000 - Level Eight Runestone/Enchantment Bonus
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
Also gives some good customization to characters, which this game could always use more of.
Your other ideas are interesting though, and would add some additional flavor to the game.
Artifacts untradable... Bad idea imo. I don't even think I need to explain.
They should be the same//weaker than regular enounter. Who would want of an "aegis fang 30k" damage encounter in PVP.
Needs a little more thinking. But it might be a good idea.
Here for the build+guide
Please do!
There's no mention of 30k, that's all you not me... Make your own thread if you want game-breaking throwing weapons
Then think and add, that's why I put it up here
The point is to reward people with top end gear for actually playing themselves. The top end gear should always have to be earned and this suggestion is meant to incorporate such a long term end game goal.
I disagree on the cause of the problem. The problem (imo) is the dungeon sets. A lot of the 'worthless purple' gear in the AH wouldn't be so worthless if set bonuses didn't make equipping anything not part of a set seem dumb.
Again, No. Imo this just sounds bad. The game is to young to be adding new levels of gear. Making it uber rare and BOP means the items will either be worthless or anyone without them will be considered worthless. Just depending on how good they make them.
Fine... As long as these dragons are not in dungeons. Put them in skirmishes or something. So tired of games that have Dungeons being the ONLY way to get decent gear. You are talking about crafting here. Imo crafting stuff shouldn't be dependent on the crafter running a dungeon.
This part sounds good.
You have a point, how do you suggest to make that change? The overhaul I would like to see would turn the purples of today into the blues of tomorrow, but i think it's naive to think that will happen.
I don't know what players you hang around with, but where i play the game no one would judge you by your gear. If you or anyone you know judges people by their "rare loot" that's a problem with your personalities/views, not the system/game. And nowhere have I said the gear will be overpowered, I just suggested really rare gear should grant us more customization. It could even be as small as changing animations for already present powers. Just to giva another level of personality, something the game lacks IMO.
You know we can only play Skirmishes at level right? That'll make these impossible to get if you want to experience anything but those skirmishes. But they have some new types of adventure coming up so that might just be another way to go. Plus, if you want the best gear you should be forced to play the entire game.
This game comes from an old IP that goes back longer than most on these forums been around (I'm guessing here, if I'm wrong the older ones need to step up) and those games were all about experience everything. There you didn't get the awesome loot if you didn't go through hell and spent weeks/years to get to that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>&%! dragon and kill it! To beable to get purples without going through a delve is very un-D&D
I agree, that would be awesome
That's up to them. Most level 60 gear just isn't valuable unless its purple and part of a set. If they want to they can move away from sets in the future. By having single epic pieces outclass partial sets but on par with full sets. Have future set bonuses offer non-combat advantages. Lots of things. I'm not sure that is what they want though.
Sometimes I hang out in Protector's Enclave in Neverwinter. Where zone chat is filled with people asking for people with T2 gearscore for T1 runs. If these artifacts are the new best in slot items, then it raises the bar the masses compares everything by.
There have been a multitude of requests to add either skirmishes that scale or level 60 versions of the ones we have. No reason they couldn't start with these dragons of yours.
I'm fine with that if you give up your Dungeon gear until you max your crafting and leadership. I'm guessing you aren't playing the entire game either.
I play the game just about all day. Either working in the foundry or running foundry dailies or messing around in PvP. I don't like the hostile atmosphere Dungeons in an MMO generate so I avoid them (unless someone wants a hand or something). Someone gets mad or frustrated and quits then whole team just wasted half an hour. Telling me that I shouldn't have access to the good stuff because I don't like to participate in that small part of this large game is just silly.
Neverwinter's IP? I played them all. I used the editor to make maps in NWN1&2. Played some "persistant worlds". Even dabbled with Neverwinter back on AOL years ago. Though I was more into text based games like Gemstone and Dragonrealms back then. This isn't any of them. This is something different. DnD has changed. And this Neverwinter being an MMO changes things too.
As for purples, purples aren't very DnD to begin with. You played with what your DM tossed you. If you were fortunate you had a DM that would set something up if he/she knew you wanted a certain item. But they were just as likely to take it away to see you try to get it back. I don't see how that can really compare here.
On the efficiency end the problem that I have is with loot rot. It grinds me to no end that Cryptic has gotten so close, yet missed the mark. I love the fact that there are a lot of sets, not enough, for instance where it the GF Conqueror set for PvP with some power on it? Anyways I digress, back to the point. The fact that there is multiple sets for each tear is awesome. However the fact that you just get a random chance to pull it from a chest is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. RNG is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, it always has been, and it always will be. This is why systems like DKP, EPGP, and Suicide Kings run rampant in any game with serious end game content. Loot distribution from the drops needs to be the same. Instead of giving EVERY player a RANDOM piece of gear in the end chest on dungeon bonus, what should be is that ONE TOKEN drops that ANY CLASS can use to purchase whatever set their heart desires.
This way the player gets to get the specific gear piece they want, and in fact this gear, the tier set bonus pieces, could be non bound, that way there is still a market on the AH, and also people can farm the base set for their alts with a main as well. In fact there is no need to bind the token at all. Allow it to be traded and sold on the AH. This way guilds could build them in in their guild banks. Players could sell the raw token on the AH. And any player could buy it for any class and get their tier set. Tier one would have a different token than tier two, etc. What players gain in efficiency would be offset by only dropping 1/5th of the gear since only one token would drop per run. The first person to open the bonus chest would proc the group roll for the token, to the victor go the spoils.
This is the type of loot distribution system that we need in Neverwinter for tier sets, and I completely agree with the OP suggestions as well.
And that is what i proposed, can't really see what your angle with your criticism is here?
It does, as it should... The problem right now is that the rare gear isn't rare... Or not as rare as it should be at least. There are some gems, but that's not the point. There will always be elitism in an MMO environment, because most gamers aren't that good players, they're all about having the best gear. But you're really confusing me know, do you or do you not want better epic gear?
Agreed! I hope they will, and if they do there's nothing standing in the way to do what you proposed.
No, I only play the parts i enjoy with people i enjoy playing with, but that's no reason why the competionists shouldn't have more to do, or why the parts I don't enjoy at the moment shouldn't become enjoyable.
That is exactly what I'm telling you, sort of. I'm telling you the good stuff should drop from bosses and possibly be made through professions, and that the best stuff forces you to do it all... bosses, skirmishes (if they scale them), professions, and whatever they decide to add in the future. I also thin there should be more PvP gear and better ways for PvPers to get those through the same channels.
I'm aware of the times changing, and what I'm going for with this is to get closer to 4th edition. I also want to know that there's gear out there that is truly epic, doesn't have to be STRONGER than existing gear (logic does suggest it should though) just add epic elements to your character
Yes we are, we love stealing you stuff... That's the fun of it, and no, purples are to WoW for me, but that's the way Cryptic went so that's the terminology I'll use. Of course it can compare, axactly how I don't know, I have a lot of ideas to defuse to put on "paper" without reconstructing how alot of game elements work in the process
Kinda going in circles here. I said I didn't agree with the cause of the problem. Then you asked me how I'd fix it. Wasn't criting anything.
But that is exactly what you are asking of me. If the best gear in the game only comes from dungeons. (and becomes BOP) then everything else gets harder:
Suddenly no matter how much you play you aren't as strong in PvP as the guy who got a lucky dice roll and found an artifact weapon. Foundry quests will take longer and become a chore as authors start to tune them for players with the new BiS gear that is BoP. You still have crafting but then you realize that all your good recipes will require BOP drops from a dungeons somewhere.
You started the thread with what seemed to be (imo, I might be wrong) an attempt to get people into dungeons more. I'm fine with that. But it should be done without forcing other parts of the game into the dungeons too.
No, you might be right... Probably so used to trolls i see them everywhere. We seem to be seeing eye to eye on this
That depends on the oumph the new gear gets. I don't want it to be overly strong, I just want it to be epic on any way (and when i say epic DPS an GS is the last thing i think of)
Again, you're stuck on the gear being overpowered, it doesn't have to be that, and ther isn't anything sying you sholuldn't be able to make equally strong gear through crafting. But i do believe top-tier gear shouldn't be bought anywhere, the reasons for that belongs in other treads and I won't go there now
Yes, I choose to angle it that way, agreed, but that isn't the only way to look at it. But at the moment all gear is there, and only during dungeon delve hour, and I'm not a fan of that. But as I've said earlier, I don't even think the T1 and most of the T2's should be purple as it stands. But it's a new game, as you staded, and changes will probably come, I just hope that the Devs will look at this thread and see some Ideas worthy of contemplation. I do believe that DD's aren't worth it to play outside of DDhour is something that needs to be changed though, this is one way, but there needs to be further changes to the system to make me think it's perfect. But I'm only one man and shouldn't get precisely as i want though