I know. DnD concepts are out of scope. I mean almost all of them. The rules concepts such as AC being hit or miss will change game mechanics so that's out. And with no in game RP resources DnD seems to be literally "locked out" of this game. And im sorry but without RP reward DnD cant exist. Regardless, a lot of players wont continue to play or wont come back to play until there's at least some hint of DnD in this game. Ive only made a couple threads on this kind of topic yet have seen literally hundreds since CB to now. Its what the players want.
The in game RP resource is Foundry, that could be used to tell any number of stories related to a guild if it was used for that purpose. RP without reward doesn't exist. RP is it's own reward, via the enjoyment of RP. Very few people have got any other benefit from role-pay.
This game has more D&D in it than most people know. However, the role-play aspect has always had to be inserted by the players. The box sets and the books can't do a whit of role-play on their own, nor can the DM. The players make the role-play. They can do it here just as well as they did before. It's a matter of player choice and initiative. It isn't something the game, even pnp D&D, can do for you.
Everything else aside, rules, classes, balance, builds,..ect. I honestly believe this would allow everyone to enjoy this game on there own terms.
XP for RP. Simple, nothing has to change as far as the mechanics.
DM events. Unique items only attainable through exceptional Role Play.
The implementation of this could offer an alternate form of progression to constant combat and speed runs. The DnD folks could enjoy this game as they will create a world within a world. And the wow gen can do there shoot um style with hair on fire. Everyone wins!
Is there any chance at all? any hope of this kind of thing being implemented?
Not Experience, but there could be RP archivements or something like that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
The in game RP resource is Foundry, that could be used to tell any number of stories related to a guild if it was used for that purpose. RP without reward doesn't exist. RP is it's own reward, via the enjoyment of RP. Very few people have got any other benefit from role-pay.
This game has more D&D in it than most people know. However, the role-play aspect has always had to be inserted by the players. The box sets and the books can't do a whit of role-play on their own, nor can the DM. The players make the role-play. They can do it here just as well as they did before. It's a matter of player choice and initiative. It isn't something the game, even pnp D&D, can do for you.
I like the foundry but its not enough. Its minimal. There has to be some kind of RP>reward in some shape form or fashion. Oh well.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Not Experience, but there could be RP archivements or something like that.
Given by whom? You see, the "kill X of Y mob" achievements are easily tracked by the game engine. How do you track who acts the best? If it was something that players could grant to one another directly, then it'd just be exploited/abused.
I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp - if it cannot be implemented in a way that uses the automated systems the game engine can provide, then it won't happen. Even stuff in the Foundry relies on this to an extent. RP is, as others have stated, player drive content. Get your friends together and RP through a foundry quest one of you have created.
Now, what I will say is that it'd be cool if they could add a special foundry mode where someone can actively be the DM for the others' encounters; They could trigger monsters, and maybe even take control some of them directly. They could block or open paths if they feel they RP'd an encounter properly, and so on...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Im kinda surprised as many of you seem to think RP reward is taboo or something. Almost all the online gaming ive ever done has some kind of RP reward system. Though ill admit its my first ever mmo attempt.
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im kinda surprised as many of you seem to think RP reward is taboo or something. Almost all the online gaming ive ever done has some kind of RP reward system. Though ill admit its my first ever mmo attempt.
It's not taboo, but is not something that is financially viable on an MMO.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Im kinda surprised as many of you seem to think RP reward is taboo or something. Almost all the online gaming ive ever done has some kind of RP reward system. Though ill admit its my first ever mmo attempt.
Please outline for me a system that can reward RP, which doesn't involve alive GM/DM, and which couldn't be exploited or abused by players who only wanted the rewards, and didn't care about RP-ing at all.
Regular content - doing missions, killing monsters, and crafting/professions are quantifiable tasks that can be tracked & rewarded by the game engine. How can you do something similar for something as amorphous as roleplaying?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Please outline for me a system that can reward RP, which doesn't involve alive GM/DM, and which couldn't be exploited or abused by players who only wanted the rewards, and didn't care about RP-ing at all.
Regular content - doing missions, killing monsters, and crafting/professions are quantifiable tasks that can be tracked & rewarded by the game engine. How can you do something similar for something as amorphous as roleplaying?
Played many games mate that grant RP automated just for typing sentences in character, 12xp, here 14 there, it was always minimal but certainly exists. Making RP relevant. Surprised more folks havnt come across that. Doesn't matter I guess. It feels like a moot point now. Download NWN2 and join the Baulders Gate server. Type hello and your name and youll gain like 5 xp. It encourages RP. Which obviously has a very positive trickle down effect across the whole game.
Played many games mate that grant RP automated just for typing sentences in character, 12xp, here 14 there, it was always minimal but certainly exists. Making RP relevant. Surprised more folks havnt come across that. Doesn't matter I guess. It feels like a moot point now. Download NWN2 and join the Baulders Gate server. Type hello and your name and youll gain like 5 xp. It encourages RP. Which obviously has a very positive trickle down effect across the whole game.
All that encourages is people to spamming chat all the time to gain additional exp.
All that encourages is people to spamming chat all the time to gain additional exp.
It would on an MMO, it won't on a NWN PW that bracer2 is talking about.
Sadly that difference is why it would never work in an MMO environment like Neverwinter - in Bracer2's example it's clear the players are there to RP, xp and loot is secondary - in an MMO like NW the majority of the playerbase is interested ONLY in loot and xp, and they'll be willing to exploit every little loophole they can to get it.
All that encourages is people to spamming chat all the time to gain additional exp.
Not in my experience. But im convinced that any real DnD implementation will be met only with venom an negativity, or ignored entirely. No worries im done pushing DnD ideologies for this game.
It would on an MMO, it won't on a NWN PW that bracer2 is talking about.
Sadly that difference is why it would never work in an MMO environment like Neverwinter - in Bracer2's example it's clear the players are there to RP, xp and loot is secondary - in an MMO like NW the majority of the playerbase is interested ONLY in loot and xp, and they'll be willing to exploit every little loophole they can to get it.
You are correct sir. Good DnD for me has never been about being hell bent on material gain. MMOs is a rough group.. oh well it was worth a shot.
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azahronMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Not in my experience. But im convinced that any real DnD implementation will be met only with venom an negativity, or ignored entirely. No worries im done pushing DnD ideologies for this game.
Your experience comes from a completely different environment though, where it's actually a great idea.
I'm not sure if you've played PnP DnD, but imagine the following scenario.
When your friends come over to play DnD you might consider it no big deal to provide them with snacks and soda, or do some kind of rotation of who foots the bill.
Now translate that to this game (and more specifically this community): the result would be a bunch of people running off with everything you haven't bolted down, or at least completely cleaning out your fridge and everything else they can get away with.
I also played the original Neverwinter Nights on some RP PW's, and the community is vastly different - their interests are vastly different.
On this game the above mentioned xp bonus would get used the way it is intended by the 1% of the playerbase like you, while 30% goes "Huh, kinda nifty - guess I should talk more now." and the remaining 69% goes "OMG! Lets download the latest bot and keep the game running all night while repeating the same lines over and over so that tomorrow I can log on and be level 60!".
Don't take it as a personal attack on you.
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azahronMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
You are correct sir. Good DnD for me has never been about being hell bent on material gain. MMOs is a rough group.. oh well it was worth a shot.
Yeah, it's the number one reason we can't have nice things.
The late City of Heroes was one of the first games to have a feature like the Foundry, and it had far better rewards associated with it than the Foundry does.
The result was that it gave the devs there nothing but headaches as people kept finding new exploits to farm it as efficiently as possible instead of bothering with the stories it was meant to create.
And so... Neverwinter's Foundry barely gives you anything as Cryptic's devs have learned the hard way that it's simply impossible to give the playerbase too much freedom.
One member of my old gaming group way back when, who was known for last minute ditching to go do something else, once convinced his sister to play his character while he caught the Metallica show. We made her a character of her own and she had a great time, so much that the DM placed her brother on the alternates roster and we made her the full time member. Not exactly irl botting, but I just thought of it when azahron mentioned bots scripted to cough out lines for XP.
Your experience comes from a completely different environment though, where it's actually a great idea.
I'm not sure if you've played PnP DnD, but imagine the following scenario.
When your friends come over to play DnD you might consider it no big deal to provide them with snacks and soda, or do some kind of rotation of who foots the bill.
Now translate that to this game (and more specifically this community): the result would be a bunch of people running off with everything you haven't bolted down, or at least completely cleaning out your fridge and everything else they can get away with.
I also played the original Neverwinter Nights on some RP PW's, and the community is vastly different - their interests are vastly different.
On this game the above mentioned xp bonus would get used the way it is intended by the 1% of the playerbase like you, while 30% goes "Huh, kinda nifty - guess I should talk more now." and the remaining 69% goes "OMG! Lets download the latest bot and keep the game running all night while repeating the same lines over and over so that tomorrow I can log on and be level 60!".
Don't take it as a personal attack on you.
That makes perfect sense and yes ive played hundreds of hours of PnP virtually all settings and editions. Ill admit its not the type of community I can relate too. Still after two decades of giving TSR/WOTC thousands of dollars I feel kinda entitled to a new high quality DnD video game. Jeez next PnP session gonna have to keep an eye on my fridge. *grinz*
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azahronMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
One member of my old gaming group way back when, who was known for last minute ditching to go do something else, once convinced his sister to play his character while he caught the Metallica show. We made her a character of her own and she had a great time, so much that the DM placed her brother on the alternates roster and we made her the full time member. Not exactly irl botting, but I just thought of it when azahron mentioned bots scripted to cough out lines for XP.
LOL! That is awesome! Sounds like he got what he deserved.
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azahronMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
That makes perfect sense and yes ive played hundreds of hours of PnP virtually all settings and editions. Ill admit its not the type of community I can relate too. Still after two decades of giving TSR/WOTC thousands of dollars I feel kinda entitled to a new high quality DnD video game. Jeez next PnP session gonna have to keep an eye on my fridge. *grinz*
Yeah, better make sure it's properly bolted down - especially if there's gonna be newbs in the group, one never knows!
I've pretty much moved on to Bioware's other RPGs, I think Neverwinter Nights was my last DnD video game - not counting DDO and this one.
Yeah, it's the number one reason we can't have nice things.
The late City of Heroes was one of the first games to have a feature like the Foundry, and it had far better rewards associated with it than the Foundry does.
The result was that it gave the devs there nothing but headaches as people kept finding new exploits to farm it as efficiently as possible instead of bothering with the stories it was meant to create.
And so... Neverwinter's Foundry barely gives you anything as Cryptic's devs have learned the hard way that it's simply impossible to give the playerbase too much freedom.
I had a good conversation with one of the admins on this very forum few weeks ago. In so many words he said that implementing any real DnD ideologies would simply give the devs to many headaches.....That in most ways eradicates fundamental DnD as I know it.
Well, It was done in the much older and out of date NWN2 online games, on private servers. So its inarguable if it "could" be done. Its been done. Given that fact. The only other point I have is that a large portion of the player pool want DnD aspects in order to keep playing at all...I cant play anymore, its awful and without any flavor. Button pushing repetition is driving players away.
The key word there is private servers. Far smaller, and not accountable to the company. And also, almost by definition, with someone with an interest in that sort of thing available to DM it.
A REAL DnD EXPERIENCE WAS CREATED. JUST LIKE WHAT THIS GAME ADVERTISES but does not follow through on.
An event could be done very much like this, with the exception that XP gifts/rewards for only RP could not be given, and the items rewards would have to be BoE and available on the server, and that hostile monsters would have to rely on foundry AI.
With those exceptions, it could be done, in this game, as it stands now.
It could be organised through an RP guild, with one or several DMs creating the foundries for specific missions and starting up characters to be the NPCs. Guild resources could be put towards item rewards to be handed to the participating players.
No official involvement or special game mechanics needed.
I had a good conversation with one of the admins on this very forum few weeks ago. In so many words he said that implementing any real DnD ideologies would simply give the devs to many headaches.....That in most ways eradicates fundamental DnD as I know it.
That really does depend upon your personal definition of D&D and opinion of what the ideologies and fundamentals are. Those tend to differ a lot between people.
I like the foundry but its not enough. Its minimal. There has to be some kind of RP>reward in some shape form or fashion. Oh well.
I've seen some wonderful adventures made by some of the Foundry authors. The tool seems to be less limiting to some compared to others. It certainly beats no Foundry or other adventure making tool.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
I wonder if you could tailor a foundry mission so a full team of 5, but where 1 person just hangs back and plays the DM, could manage the content. If that 5th person was the storyteller, and kinda acted to fill in the gaps where the foundry quest was lacking, (like say they left the dialogue pretty much blank and the DM supplied it instead and chose what options the team was to choose from the preset NPCs), this could work pretty well...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Im kinda surprised as many of you seem to think RP reward is taboo or something. Almost all the online gaming ive ever done has some kind of RP reward system. Though ill admit its my first ever mmo attempt.
RP XP reward is taboo if it is not fair and consistent.
Lets ASSUME Cryptic hired an Event coordinator (EC). This coordinator lives in the U.S. Cryptic can only afford to hire one. This EC can only work from 10AM to 8 PM Central time. This EC has a background as GM in D&D tournaments (i.e. WoTC certified GM) This EC has a background in Theater (Bachelor degree). Cryptic design a system that EC can only award upto 100 exp package a week and each package can only be given to a single place ONCE a week (to prevent abuse) each exp package basically allows you to level up 1 level. When you gain a package, you get a point of RP experience. You can turn in RP experience for cosmetic items (clothing, weapon skin, etc, but no actual items)
I feel the following is pretty fair. It is not exploitable (limit reward thus EC can't hand them out like candy.) The EC has experience as GM and acting. Players can level up if they do well.
The problem I see is this.
Acting is subjective. You are now at the mercy of the GM. Since there are limited reward (even if we increase to 1000 still have the issue) who gets it? what if the GM has a bad day and given only to the few who are bad but you RP your heart out and hit all the lines, do all the scenario and go squat? now what? report the GM for evaluation? That takes up even more resources.
Time limits. Certain people in certain time zone just can't participate due to EC won't be there. Even if you hire more than one, there are time that they have to rest too (40 hour work week in the U.S. then it is overtime pay)
How many players are actually REALLY want this? 10% of the population? bracer2 think there is a major outcry but in actuality I don't think it is as big as you like it. Even WOW having over 10million members doesn't have that much RPer (sure I guess around 10k players because I use to be in RP guild and we are small) Is it feasible for the company to invest money and time to implement this?
RP players will get into lack of actual GEAR to compete in PvE or even PvP. RP players would have to participate in those mechanics in order to get any gear or start spending Cash to get Zen and buy their gear. This may be fine with RPers who has money, but what if you don't? then you have to participate and probably do WORST cause practice makes perfect. You don't really try out your skills, you read about it, you put points into it, but have you use it in combat situation? Even if the EXP RP package provide gear, it can't be epic cause then you get an uproar of other player.
continuation of event. I know personally from VLARP that some even can't be done in spurts or short time. So now what? generic RP event? it has to be huge and can't make ANY specific player lead mainly if that person is out, then it could ruin immersion. Either the event move on or have to wait until key players come back.
Size of RP event. GM is like teacher. After a certain number, it is VERY hard to keep track of players no matter how smart or good you are. So any event may limit to 10 or upto 30. I can tell you once you get into the 100, it gets very chaotic. I have done LARP in Anime convention, now that is hectic and good example because you get people with different experience all over the world joining your game. Some may even argue against what direction it should go. Player driven? have you try to do a player driven even with a group of 5? (it gets messy even with private GM event with my friends) try doing it with a group of 50. It goes all over the place and you need help to keep it organized. This mean more tools to keep track of RP event and scores (probably Cryptic has to create it so players can see where they stand on their character sheet)
That is just some of the basic I can think of from personal experience with LIVE RP event. I have try to do virtual desktop event, IRC and Forum RP. It can be fun, but I can assure you. It is not easy and take some resource and a lot of planning to make it happen.
So with current technology and resources, unless you can automate it, it is not going to happen.
Bracer2, you said that XP rewarded by text for automation? I can easily get a script bot to spew out lines from a play with 7-10 other bots (heck even class play that is free online) and have a virtual play with all bots autotyping lines and get free XP. It is easily exploitable which is another factor that Cryptic has to avoid.
I understand that currently there are several exploits in PvP and PvE and Cryptic is working on the issue. Even if this dream event could happen, it will take some serious resources and planning (and assuming they know what RP is all about) to make it happen.
Agreed, but im sure you've seen the hundreds of posts of players begging for DnD aspects. Should those players continue to be ignored?
Yes, unless you have some inside information that Cryptic are sitting on world-changing natural language processing tech, and that the "same old warmed-over stuff" engine that they're currently using to make a fairly conventional (if occasionally very pretty) MMO is just a ruse. If that is the case, then they might be better off selling such tech to the NSA, in any case.
This thread fails hard, expecting the game to explicitly mediate in RP is a bit like walking into a a high street clothes shop and querulously demanding that they sell fur suits.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Yes, unless you have some inside information that Cryptic are sitting on world-changing natural language processing tech, and that the "same old warmed-over stuff" engine that they're currently using to make a fairly conventional (if occasionally very pretty) MMO is just a ruse. If that is the case, then they might be better off selling such tech to the NSA, in any case.
This thread fails hard, expecting the game to explicitly mediate in RP is a bit like walking into a a high street clothes shop and querulously demanding that they sell fur suits.
It is a dream of RPer to RP in their favorite world without having to go to IRC, Forums, Second life, or other medium other than the game they want to RP in.
now the issue is NOT that you CAN'T RP in anything, the issue is getting REWARD for RP. That is the main issue of this thread. It is hard enough to grant fair compensation for actually PLAYING the game as is, can you imagine the level of coding to make RP work without being exploited?
While it is a good pipe dream, we have to look at reality. Currently Cryptic is trying to figure out ways to prevent bots in PvP, node gathering, and exploits in dungeon for the game it was originally design (and balance reward) can you imagine trying to implement RP system? I think the bots will exploit that too (to get cool rewards)
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2013
Would you reward RP in languages other than English, or automatically put any interested player without English as their native language at a disadvantage? Or try to rate people's RP ability separate from their writing/communication?
Seems like something very difficult to do fairly on a grand scale.
Comments
The in game RP resource is Foundry, that could be used to tell any number of stories related to a guild if it was used for that purpose. RP without reward doesn't exist. RP is it's own reward, via the enjoyment of RP. Very few people have got any other benefit from role-pay.
This game has more D&D in it than most people know. However, the role-play aspect has always had to be inserted by the players. The box sets and the books can't do a whit of role-play on their own, nor can the DM. The players make the role-play. They can do it here just as well as they did before. It's a matter of player choice and initiative. It isn't something the game, even pnp D&D, can do for you.
Not Experience, but there could be RP archivements or something like that.
"The harder the game, the better."
I like the foundry but its not enough. Its minimal. There has to be some kind of RP>reward in some shape form or fashion. Oh well.
Given by whom? You see, the "kill X of Y mob" achievements are easily tracked by the game engine. How do you track who acts the best? If it was something that players could grant to one another directly, then it'd just be exploited/abused.
I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp - if it cannot be implemented in a way that uses the automated systems the game engine can provide, then it won't happen. Even stuff in the Foundry relies on this to an extent. RP is, as others have stated, player drive content. Get your friends together and RP through a foundry quest one of you have created.
Now, what I will say is that it'd be cool if they could add a special foundry mode where someone can actively be the DM for the others' encounters; They could trigger monsters, and maybe even take control some of them directly. They could block or open paths if they feel they RP'd an encounter properly, and so on...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Something not useless lol.
It's not taboo, but is not something that is financially viable on an MMO.
Please outline for me a system that can reward RP, which doesn't involve alive GM/DM, and which couldn't be exploited or abused by players who only wanted the rewards, and didn't care about RP-ing at all.
Regular content - doing missions, killing monsters, and crafting/professions are quantifiable tasks that can be tracked & rewarded by the game engine. How can you do something similar for something as amorphous as roleplaying?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Played many games mate that grant RP automated just for typing sentences in character, 12xp, here 14 there, it was always minimal but certainly exists. Making RP relevant. Surprised more folks havnt come across that. Doesn't matter I guess. It feels like a moot point now. Download NWN2 and join the Baulders Gate server. Type hello and your name and youll gain like 5 xp. It encourages RP. Which obviously has a very positive trickle down effect across the whole game.
All that encourages is people to spamming chat all the time to gain additional exp.
Do not know about 4th edition but in Ad&d 2nd DM's guide gave a table for exp.
It would on an MMO, it won't on a NWN PW that bracer2 is talking about.
Sadly that difference is why it would never work in an MMO environment like Neverwinter - in Bracer2's example it's clear the players are there to RP, xp and loot is secondary - in an MMO like NW the majority of the playerbase is interested ONLY in loot and xp, and they'll be willing to exploit every little loophole they can to get it.
Not in my experience. But im convinced that any real DnD implementation will be met only with venom an negativity, or ignored entirely. No worries im done pushing DnD ideologies for this game.
You are correct sir. Good DnD for me has never been about being hell bent on material gain. MMOs is a rough group.. oh well it was worth a shot.
Your experience comes from a completely different environment though, where it's actually a great idea.
I'm not sure if you've played PnP DnD, but imagine the following scenario.
When your friends come over to play DnD you might consider it no big deal to provide them with snacks and soda, or do some kind of rotation of who foots the bill.
Now translate that to this game (and more specifically this community): the result would be a bunch of people running off with everything you haven't bolted down, or at least completely cleaning out your fridge and everything else they can get away with.
I also played the original Neverwinter Nights on some RP PW's, and the community is vastly different - their interests are vastly different.
On this game the above mentioned xp bonus would get used the way it is intended by the 1% of the playerbase like you, while 30% goes "Huh, kinda nifty - guess I should talk more now." and the remaining 69% goes "OMG! Lets download the latest bot and keep the game running all night while repeating the same lines over and over so that tomorrow I can log on and be level 60!".
Don't take it as a personal attack on you.
Yeah, it's the number one reason we can't have nice things.
The late City of Heroes was one of the first games to have a feature like the Foundry, and it had far better rewards associated with it than the Foundry does.
The result was that it gave the devs there nothing but headaches as people kept finding new exploits to farm it as efficiently as possible instead of bothering with the stories it was meant to create.
And so... Neverwinter's Foundry barely gives you anything as Cryptic's devs have learned the hard way that it's simply impossible to give the playerbase too much freedom.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
That makes perfect sense and yes ive played hundreds of hours of PnP virtually all settings and editions. Ill admit its not the type of community I can relate too. Still after two decades of giving TSR/WOTC thousands of dollars I feel kinda entitled to a new high quality DnD video game. Jeez next PnP session gonna have to keep an eye on my fridge. *grinz*
LOL! That is awesome! Sounds like he got what he deserved.
Yeah, better make sure it's properly bolted down - especially if there's gonna be newbs in the group, one never knows!
I've pretty much moved on to Bioware's other RPGs, I think Neverwinter Nights was my last DnD video game - not counting DDO and this one.
I had a good conversation with one of the admins on this very forum few weeks ago. In so many words he said that implementing any real DnD ideologies would simply give the devs to many headaches.....That in most ways eradicates fundamental DnD as I know it.
An event could be done very much like this, with the exception that XP gifts/rewards for only RP could not be given, and the items rewards would have to be BoE and available on the server, and that hostile monsters would have to rely on foundry AI.
With those exceptions, it could be done, in this game, as it stands now.
It could be organised through an RP guild, with one or several DMs creating the foundries for specific missions and starting up characters to be the NPCs. Guild resources could be put towards item rewards to be handed to the participating players.
No official involvement or special game mechanics needed.
I've seen some wonderful adventures made by some of the Foundry authors. The tool seems to be less limiting to some compared to others. It certainly beats no Foundry or other adventure making tool.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
RP XP reward is taboo if it is not fair and consistent.
Lets ASSUME Cryptic hired an Event coordinator (EC). This coordinator lives in the U.S. Cryptic can only afford to hire one. This EC can only work from 10AM to 8 PM Central time. This EC has a background as GM in D&D tournaments (i.e. WoTC certified GM) This EC has a background in Theater (Bachelor degree). Cryptic design a system that EC can only award upto 100 exp package a week and each package can only be given to a single place ONCE a week (to prevent abuse) each exp package basically allows you to level up 1 level. When you gain a package, you get a point of RP experience. You can turn in RP experience for cosmetic items (clothing, weapon skin, etc, but no actual items)
I feel the following is pretty fair. It is not exploitable (limit reward thus EC can't hand them out like candy.) The EC has experience as GM and acting. Players can level up if they do well.
The problem I see is this.
Acting is subjective. You are now at the mercy of the GM. Since there are limited reward (even if we increase to 1000 still have the issue) who gets it? what if the GM has a bad day and given only to the few who are bad but you RP your heart out and hit all the lines, do all the scenario and go squat? now what? report the GM for evaluation? That takes up even more resources.
Time limits. Certain people in certain time zone just can't participate due to EC won't be there. Even if you hire more than one, there are time that they have to rest too (40 hour work week in the U.S. then it is overtime pay)
How many players are actually REALLY want this? 10% of the population? bracer2 think there is a major outcry but in actuality I don't think it is as big as you like it. Even WOW having over 10million members doesn't have that much RPer (sure I guess around 10k players because I use to be in RP guild and we are small) Is it feasible for the company to invest money and time to implement this?
RP players will get into lack of actual GEAR to compete in PvE or even PvP. RP players would have to participate in those mechanics in order to get any gear or start spending Cash to get Zen and buy their gear. This may be fine with RPers who has money, but what if you don't? then you have to participate and probably do WORST cause practice makes perfect. You don't really try out your skills, you read about it, you put points into it, but have you use it in combat situation? Even if the EXP RP package provide gear, it can't be epic cause then you get an uproar of other player.
continuation of event. I know personally from VLARP that some even can't be done in spurts or short time. So now what? generic RP event? it has to be huge and can't make ANY specific player lead mainly if that person is out, then it could ruin immersion. Either the event move on or have to wait until key players come back.
Size of RP event. GM is like teacher. After a certain number, it is VERY hard to keep track of players no matter how smart or good you are. So any event may limit to 10 or upto 30. I can tell you once you get into the 100, it gets very chaotic. I have done LARP in Anime convention, now that is hectic and good example because you get people with different experience all over the world joining your game. Some may even argue against what direction it should go. Player driven? have you try to do a player driven even with a group of 5? (it gets messy even with private GM event with my friends) try doing it with a group of 50. It goes all over the place and you need help to keep it organized. This mean more tools to keep track of RP event and scores (probably Cryptic has to create it so players can see where they stand on their character sheet)
That is just some of the basic I can think of from personal experience with LIVE RP event. I have try to do virtual desktop event, IRC and Forum RP. It can be fun, but I can assure you. It is not easy and take some resource and a lot of planning to make it happen.
So with current technology and resources, unless you can automate it, it is not going to happen.
Bracer2, you said that XP rewarded by text for automation? I can easily get a script bot to spew out lines from a play with 7-10 other bots (heck even class play that is free online) and have a virtual play with all bots autotyping lines and get free XP. It is easily exploitable which is another factor that Cryptic has to avoid.
I understand that currently there are several exploits in PvP and PvE and Cryptic is working on the issue. Even if this dream event could happen, it will take some serious resources and planning (and assuming they know what RP is all about) to make it happen.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Yes, unless you have some inside information that Cryptic are sitting on world-changing natural language processing tech, and that the "same old warmed-over stuff" engine that they're currently using to make a fairly conventional (if occasionally very pretty) MMO is just a ruse. If that is the case, then they might be better off selling such tech to the NSA, in any case.
This thread fails hard, expecting the game to explicitly mediate in RP is a bit like walking into a a high street clothes shop and querulously demanding that they sell fur suits.
It is a dream of RPer to RP in their favorite world without having to go to IRC, Forums, Second life, or other medium other than the game they want to RP in.
now the issue is NOT that you CAN'T RP in anything, the issue is getting REWARD for RP. That is the main issue of this thread. It is hard enough to grant fair compensation for actually PLAYING the game as is, can you imagine the level of coding to make RP work without being exploited?
While it is a good pipe dream, we have to look at reality. Currently Cryptic is trying to figure out ways to prevent bots in PvP, node gathering, and exploits in dungeon for the game it was originally design (and balance reward) can you imagine trying to implement RP system? I think the bots will exploit that too (to get cool rewards)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Seems like something very difficult to do fairly on a grand scale.
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