As someone who has worked on Madison Avenue for several years, I would suggest that if you want to monetize your Foundry content, the best way to go about it would be to start a blog, do Adsense, get some followers, and maybe create content for Youtube or livestream on Twitch. Unless you do something really, really right, you aren't going to be quitting your day job anytime soon doing this, so only do it if you enjoy this sort of thing.
If you want to increase the popularity of your content, IMHO the number one thing you can do is create amazing content that people enjoy playing and want to share. Period.
The second thing best thing will be getting started with some initial reviews with basic word of mouth on the forums & quest trading.
If you want to be super fancy and have some extra time, you could even create a teaser video, which I have seen a couple of folks here do to good effect, but I think this is optional.
And all the feedback is it's a bad idea, but you persist, so you're not really seeking feedback.
All the feedback from perhaps a dozen people on a rather incestuous and self reinforcing forum? And, with the exception of Dzogen, none with any stated expertise in the advertising field? And no one with a competing solution to the problem being discussed other than what players are *already* doing, and ineffectively at that?
I'm still of the mind that I'm dealing with a vocal minority and an opinionated one at that. And since this is the internet I plan to continue to suffer their slings and arrows. That doesn't mean I'm going to abandon a conversation well worth having, nor the pursuit of a solution to a problem of concern. And it certainly doesn't prove anything beyond that there are people who, in their opinion, don't believe such a system could work. No evidence has been presented, no data, and no competing solutions have emerged. Thus it is worth continuing to seek exactly those things, or feedback on improving the currently proposed solution. If you'd like to participate in that discussion, your ideas would be welcomed.
When I asked for thoughts and impressions the hope was to see other solutions offered and ideas to improve on this proposal. But true to most forums I left myself open to everyone with a bone to pick to drop in and say "I hate it for personal reasons." So fine, I'll continue to acknowledge such input with "Duly noted, any better ideas?"
But otherwise the point of this forum post, as stated from the beginning, is to seek feedback on ways to *improve* this idea or find other ideas. I'll concede I've committed the crime of trusting anonymous strangers on the internet with being productive instead of antagonistic, and further the crime of not being precise enough with my intentions by choosing casual language. Acknowledged, I'll continue to use more precise and forceful language going forward to avoid further confusion.
And I'll continue to reiterate, with more precision, that I'm seeking *productive* input in the form of feedback for *improvement* or *alternative* *solutions*. The hope is that it will help channel any creative energy in this community to help solve this problem...
That problem being that if you create content today the likelihood of anyone who plays being aware of its existence is approximate slim : none, with a .1% margin of error.
Detractors can and will continue to post in this thread, since they have an account and an opinion to express, but they add nothing to the conversation and only serve the purpose of expressing that opinion. Perhaps they believe in summary that they can represent to the developers that this idea should never happen? Except that some solution is needed, no others are on offer, and ultimately the developers will decide on what they agree with most, taking community opinions in to account as only part of their decision. If community opinions ruled after all there'd be server wipes occurring...
So these opinions that keep creeping in then are largely counter productive, since they only cause noise and don't contribute to a solution. Rather they just distract from a conversation that *could* be about solving this problem. So I must expend time and energy acknowledging them, and *try* to garner some productivity from them, if possible, to hopefully encourage meaningful discussion.
On the other hand, perhaps you believe this isn't a problem and all newly created content is being easily discovered, well covered, and given a chance by the players? I do not think that's true, and from what I've seen in game I find no evidence of that happening either. And that's why this thread was created. If we can't agree on that, then this whole discussion is moot and I'll just add you to the "Duly noted" only bucket and move on.
I'll still wait and see if the community can get better at solving this problem in the next 30 days. But my intuition tells me that pretty much the same modules that are getting the great bulk of the plays today will be getting the great bulk of the plays then too, without much changing.
And so I'll *still* be soliciting feedback on this idea, and seek alternatives that can actually solve the problem of getting fresh new content in front of the mouse cursor of the players. Solutions that are self regulated and driven by player action, to minimize the amount of resources being demanded of the company that I'd rather see spending resources on delivering new Dungeons, Classes, Races, Paragon Paths, PvP maps, Itemization, Art Assets, etc... (Fewer Reviewers, more Developers and Designers please.)
As someone who has worked on Madison Avenue for several years, I would suggest that if you want to monetize your Foundry content, the best way to go about it would be to start a blog, do Adsense, get some followers, and maybe create content for Youtube or livestream on Twitch. Unless you do something really, really right, you aren't going to be quitting your day job anytime soon doing this, so only do it if you enjoy this sort of thing.
If you want to increase the popularity of your content, IMHO the number one thing you can do is create amazing content that people enjoy playing and want to share. Period.
The second thing best thing will be getting started with some initial reviews with basic word of mouth on the forums & quest trading.
If you want to be super fancy and have some extra time, you could even create a teaser video, which I have seen a couple of folks here do to good effect, but I think this is optional.
Love Bill's Tavern by the way.
Those are all great ways to publicize your content, I absolutely agree. And I think with any solution creators should also be encouraged to do just those things to build a following of players.
And I'm not looking to monetize by the way, just equalize opportunities.
And that's the thing right now, once you float to the top of the Foundry content, you're pretty likely to stay there. And if you haven't floated to the top, it's *very* likely you never will, no matter the amaze-sauce and 100% pure win your content's made of.
Perhaps every so often one person, who may have worked hard at it through numerous channels like yourself, or just caught the right attention and mood at the right time, will get a chance to float upwards. The problem is this pattern of discoverability is insufficient. And right now the distribution of plays across the content that's already there, less than 30 days from when the game was launched in to OBT, is *most* *extremely* *very* *so* *much* asymmetrical. I see this as a problem. Perhaps others don't? (See above)
I've proposed one way to provide alternate discoverability, one that creators can leverage without a significant investment of time and one guaranteed to get eyeballs. Further, I've proposed a solution not of my own construction, but one that's been observed time and again to produce results. As in a multi-billion dollar a year industry that continues to thrive because it produces results. I'd really like input on how to improve that idea's implementation in this setting, or other solutions that would be better at solving this problem.
I'd especially like to hear your ideas on this since not everyone has your background and thus may not be (probably isn't) equipped to pursue even the amount of coverage you've managed to garner, but should still be given a fair chance in some regard of having their content discovered by players.
The greatest novels ever written were set aside - unread - by most of those that began their reading.
I always found this view curious. A novel (or a movie) can be great even if it does not appeal to a broad audience, but the failure to do so is not what makes it remarkable. It only makes it unpopular.
All the feedback from perhaps a dozen people on a rather incestuous and self reinforcing forum? ....
I plan to continue to suffer their slings and arrows....
I've committed the crime of trusting anonymous strangers on the internet with being productive instead of antagonistic...
I'm seeking *productive* input...
Detractors can and will continue to post...
"I asked for feedback, and I didn't hear what I wanted, so I'm going to insult the people who gave it now".
Like I said, you're not asking for feedback, you're asking for confirmation of your idea. This idea has been discussed ad infinitum long before it popped into your head. There were multiple threads on Foundry Beta about this specific thing in fact, and multiple more after launch. Let me tell you specifically why your idea is bad.
Your idea is terrible because the people spending time making quality quests in Foundry are not out there grinding levels and AD to pay for advertising. I personally have 4 quests currently rated 4 stars or above. Want to know how many AD I have? Zero. I have one toon, it's level 29. All my AD goes back out in tips. Tell me how I am supposed to compete with anyone at all who is 60/T1/T2, where hundreds of thousands/millions of AD are the norm? Are you saying I should stop making content for the game to go collect AD?
The idea is a complete non starter that can't be refined. This is like the person who has been married and divorced ten times, and when you ask them they say "It's not me, it's them!" When everyone's divorcing you, it's not them, it's you.
Waits for another presumptuous post about how everyone here is wrong and can't see the brilliance of your idea...
I think knowing how to advertise your content is something many people don't know how to do. There will always be people that make amazing things and they can get plays just off that that, but that in itself is advertising.
Everyone's played chili's Crypt of Carnage or Dusk's Lady & the Worm. We know that Zovya's added cutscenes to her next quest. They've advertised themselves with their amazing content. However, for people like me that don't make top shelf content, we need a way to get our stuff out there so we can compete alongside other authors who are just as good, better, or worse.
Paying for a banner may be a step in the right direction, but it has several flaws. First and foremost, I would like to think most people use pop up blockers in this day and age so advertising out of game would be pointless. Advertising in game, however, would be much more receptive. Paying for advertising, however, gives those that are rich the power to put their content out first. How is a level 20 making above average content supposed to compete with a level 60 with a couple billion AD making less than subpar content but is able to keep his quest displayed everywhere.
Is a post that I started trying to address and come up with some ideas about how to be seen.
I would go into the content on there but I am tired
Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.
Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
Advertising in game, however, would be much more receptive. Paying for advertising, however, gives those that are rich the power to put their content out first. How is a level 20 making above average content supposed to compete with a level 60 with a couple billion AD making less than subpar content but is able to keep his quest displayed everywhere.
I think, and it's just that: unstructured thoughts while my coffee does its usual thing and refuses to finish brewing faster, that even with advertising, the core issue would still remain untouched: There's an ocean of user-created content and no efficient tools to sort through it. Giving players the means to find exactly what they want to play, depending on what mood they are presently in, is the key. A way to advertise in-game by paying AD would still result in a large number of quality quests not getting any exposure at all, because not only do players not know about them, but also, and especially, can't even find them reliably.
If I want to play quests that are in the spotlight (and ads are just another form of that), I can already look at the week's featured quests, the editor's choices, the highest rated and most played adventures. But if I sit down and think, "Hey, I'd really dig a story-based, witty and dialogue-driven mystery with light combat, and I have forty minutes of uninterrupted time.", I have no way of finding something that meets my desire. As long as such relatively fundamental basic tools aren't yet offered (I imagine those are in the works), debating in-game advertisements is a tad like discussing the color of the toilet lid in the new house before even the foundation has been dug up.
As for ads in general, I don't think Zesban's points are invalid or "bad". It's all sound. I just feel that the ideas fall in the "finishing touches" category, and that it's too soon for that when, as outlined above, players can't even properly search for the "product" they want. Ads, at this point, would be more of what we already have: Lists of offers that are unrelated to the viewer's interests in the hope that perhaps one of the "products" may appeal to her. Ads are no different. They would increase the popularity of a fraction of the quests in the catalog, but the overall situation would remain just as it is. It would only further improve it for those who already have the means to improve it (offering rewards or "payment" to players to get them to play and rate their stuff).
Your idea is terrible because the people spending time making quality quests in Foundry are not out there grinding levels and AD to pay for advertising. I personally have 4 quests currently rated 4 stars or above. Want to know how many AD I have? Zero. I have one toon, it's level 29. All my AD goes back out in tips. Tell me how I am supposed to compete with anyone at all who is 60/T1/T2, where hundreds of thousands/millions of AD are the norm? Are you saying I should stop making content for the game to go collect AD?
The second part of this idea is that PWE starts rewarding Foundry Authors with a daily stipend of AD. This stipend would be based on the number of unique players that play that Author's module each day. So the more popular a module is, the more the Author is rewarded for creating it.
SNIP!
And this system is self reinforcing. Talented Authors who are building great modules are rewarded with a regular income of AD, which they can use to advertise follow up modules, without having to spend time farming for it. That allows them to focus on continuing making *awesome* content!
SNIP!
If you have other ideas about how to reinforce the AD generation, balance it, and empower creators please share.
I think knowing how to advertise your content is something many people don't know how to do. There will always be people that make amazing things and they can get plays just off that that, but that in itself is advertising.
Everyone's played chili's Crypt of Carnage or Dusk's Lady & the Worm. We know that Zovya's added cutscenes to her next quest. They've advertised themselves with their amazing content. However, for people like me that don't make top shelf content, we need a way to get our stuff out there so we can compete alongside other authors who are just as good, better, or worse.
Paying for a banner may be a step in the right direction, but it has several flaws. First and foremost, I would like to think most people use pop up blockers in this day and age so advertising out of game would be pointless. Advertising in game, however, would be much more receptive. Paying for advertising, however, gives those that are rich the power to put their content out first. How is a level 20 making above average content supposed to compete with a level 60 with a couple billion AD making less than subpar content but is able to keep his quest displayed everywhere.
I really think a cap on how much a Creator can spend would be necessary to keep scenarios like this from happening. If this type of system could be dominated by a small handful of creators it wouldn't solve the problem in the first place, just move it.
I think, and it's just that: unstructured thoughts while my coffee does its usual thing and refuses to finish brewing faster, that even with advertising, the core issue would still remain untouched: There's an ocean of user-created content and no efficient tools to sort through it. Giving players the means to find exactly what they want to play, depending on what mood they are presently in, is the key. A way to advertise in-game by paying AD would still result in a large number of quality quests not getting any exposure at all, because not only do players not know about them, but also, and especially, can't even find them reliably.
If I want to play quests that are in the spotlight (and ads are just another form of that), I can already look at the week's featured quests, the editor's choices, the highest rated and most played adventures. But if I sit down and think, "Hey, I'd really dig a story-based, witty and dialogue-driven mystery with light combat, and I have forty minutes of uninterrupted time.", I have no way of finding something that meets my desire. As long as such relatively fundamental basic tools aren't yet offered (I imagine those are in the works), debating in-game advertisements is a tad like discussing the color of the toilet lid in the new house before even the foundation has been dug up.
As for ads in general, I don't think Zesban's points are invalid or "bad". It's all sound. I just feel that the ideas fall in the "finishing touches" category, and that it's too soon for that when, as outlined above, players can't even properly search for the "product" they want. Ads, at this point, would be more of what we already have: Lists of offers that are unrelated to the viewer's interests in the hope that perhaps one of the "products" may appeal to her. Ads are no different. They would increase the popularity of a fraction of the quests in the catalog, but the overall situation would remain just as it is. It would only further improve it for those who already have the means to improve it (offering rewards or "payment" to players to get them to play and rate their stuff).
I absolutely agree that there needs to be a massive amount of face lifting in this category in general. For instance, prioritized way above this would be a proper tagging feature that lets players browse the Foundry by tags.
Also ratings on those tags would be helpful so that just because a Foundry Module is tagged as Role Play doesn't mean it counts for Role Play if most players rate it at 1 star for Role Play.
But after a great tagging system is in place and players can browse much more specifically, it'd be great to advertise your content to players that browse for certain tags, a la ad-sense. In fact, you're more likely to catch the interest of a player if your Module is right in the niche they're looking for!
This also creates a lot more "ad space" which means there's more to go around. That, combined with caps on spending, a reasonable price for space, and a system of revenue beyond the good nature of fellow players, creates a self regulating market to expose content in. And it helps balance the use of a discoverability system without creating more work for PWE employees or for Creators who just want to write modules.
But there's a lot of tweaks and several good ideas I'm sure I don't see that could make this better. For one, I don't have a background in marketing or advertising to draw on and there's probably some good economics advice that could improve this picture as well. Not mention tons of creativity to spin off not just this idea, but other ways to solve the problem of the "content sea."
Tangent: Specifically on the topic of incentives, that's where I started for this idea. Originally I thought it'd be cool to add a way for a creator to post some incentive, like a pool of AD or something, that would be rewarded to the first set of reviewers to play through the content and review it. Eliminating the leg work in what players are already doing, saving those that do just that time, and making it easier for others who might start doing so if it weren't the time sink it is now.
But then I thought if players are willing to spend in game resources to make others aware of their module, formalizing that might have greater reach and be easier to manage. I still think making it easier to provide incentives would also be a great way to get more players engaged in reviewing new, untested content, but I felt that discoverability is still the greater issue at the moment and wanted post on that first.
Maybe they're not mutually exclusive? Perhaps the ad is tied to the incentive? That gives players a reason to pay attention to the ads, because the Creators behind them are offering additional rewards for playing their advertised content. Thoughts?
If you have other ideas about how to reinforce the AD generation, balance it, and empower creators please share.
Thus allowing the popular authors to continue to dominate against any new authors, it not only doesn't solve the problem but actually reinforced it since both established and new authors can presumably grind their AD roughly equally, but existing authors have a huge advantage in plays and thus AD.
Thus allowing the popular authors to continue to dominate against any new authors, it not only doesn't solve the problem but actually reinforced it since both established and new authors can presumably grind their AD roughly equally, but existing authors have a huge advantage in plays and thus AD.
But I don't feel that it will solve a problem but rather create one.
Lets say hypothetically that the Planescape campaign I am writing for the foundry is the next coming of RPG dom since torment.
Now lets say trolfacelolo writes a dungeon crawl that gives people mad xp and is a one dungeon room. People play his quest a lot and tip him tons of AD. He then places an ad using that AD to advertize his quest and bam more people more ratings more rewards.
He spends millions, i spend a 25,000 AD as using normal rewards and such, and my quest is still on the bottom of all lists.
Precisely. And this is a way to give new content creators a way to get their quests "featured."
That's the point of regulating the market. He shouldn't ever be allowed to spend millions in the first place. And secondly, he shouldn't be making millions. That's why instead of running the rewards through player tips, it should be a reward distributed by, and controlled by, PWE.
SNIP!
The other critical concept here is that advertising wouldn't be a list you'd be ranked on. Your 25k determines how much exposure you get, relative to what others have invested. But when your module is advertised, your module is the one that is front and center. It's *not* surrounded by other content, not even trolfacelolo's.
SNIP!
But I'm open to other ideas, or feedback on how to improve on this idea.
- Zesban
Distribution of the AD doesn't need to be linearly aligned to the number of plays, it can be based on a curve, and even experience diminishing returns approaching a ceiling. Also, spending on the advertising can be capped, preventing overuse or abuse. There's no need to allow for a rich get richer model to provide this type of self-reinforcing, self-regulating system.
As a future content writer, I feel that the foundry quests should stand on the merit of people's enjoyment of the content. Not how much AD I spend on it. The other poster said it best.
This, and the ten letters of love to to quoted one!
Comments
If you want to increase the popularity of your content, IMHO the number one thing you can do is create amazing content that people enjoy playing and want to share. Period.
The second thing best thing will be getting started with some initial reviews with basic word of mouth on the forums & quest trading.
If you want to be super fancy and have some extra time, you could even create a teaser video, which I have seen a couple of folks here do to good effect, but I think this is optional.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
All the feedback from perhaps a dozen people on a rather incestuous and self reinforcing forum? And, with the exception of Dzogen, none with any stated expertise in the advertising field? And no one with a competing solution to the problem being discussed other than what players are *already* doing, and ineffectively at that?
I'm still of the mind that I'm dealing with a vocal minority and an opinionated one at that. And since this is the internet I plan to continue to suffer their slings and arrows. That doesn't mean I'm going to abandon a conversation well worth having, nor the pursuit of a solution to a problem of concern. And it certainly doesn't prove anything beyond that there are people who, in their opinion, don't believe such a system could work. No evidence has been presented, no data, and no competing solutions have emerged. Thus it is worth continuing to seek exactly those things, or feedback on improving the currently proposed solution. If you'd like to participate in that discussion, your ideas would be welcomed.
When I asked for thoughts and impressions the hope was to see other solutions offered and ideas to improve on this proposal. But true to most forums I left myself open to everyone with a bone to pick to drop in and say "I hate it for personal reasons." So fine, I'll continue to acknowledge such input with "Duly noted, any better ideas?"
But otherwise the point of this forum post, as stated from the beginning, is to seek feedback on ways to *improve* this idea or find other ideas. I'll concede I've committed the crime of trusting anonymous strangers on the internet with being productive instead of antagonistic, and further the crime of not being precise enough with my intentions by choosing casual language. Acknowledged, I'll continue to use more precise and forceful language going forward to avoid further confusion.
And I'll continue to reiterate, with more precision, that I'm seeking *productive* input in the form of feedback for *improvement* or *alternative* *solutions*. The hope is that it will help channel any creative energy in this community to help solve this problem...
That problem being that if you create content today the likelihood of anyone who plays being aware of its existence is approximate slim : none, with a .1% margin of error.
Detractors can and will continue to post in this thread, since they have an account and an opinion to express, but they add nothing to the conversation and only serve the purpose of expressing that opinion. Perhaps they believe in summary that they can represent to the developers that this idea should never happen? Except that some solution is needed, no others are on offer, and ultimately the developers will decide on what they agree with most, taking community opinions in to account as only part of their decision. If community opinions ruled after all there'd be server wipes occurring...
So these opinions that keep creeping in then are largely counter productive, since they only cause noise and don't contribute to a solution. Rather they just distract from a conversation that *could* be about solving this problem. So I must expend time and energy acknowledging them, and *try* to garner some productivity from them, if possible, to hopefully encourage meaningful discussion.
On the other hand, perhaps you believe this isn't a problem and all newly created content is being easily discovered, well covered, and given a chance by the players? I do not think that's true, and from what I've seen in game I find no evidence of that happening either. And that's why this thread was created. If we can't agree on that, then this whole discussion is moot and I'll just add you to the "Duly noted" only bucket and move on.
I'll still wait and see if the community can get better at solving this problem in the next 30 days. But my intuition tells me that pretty much the same modules that are getting the great bulk of the plays today will be getting the great bulk of the plays then too, without much changing.
And so I'll *still* be soliciting feedback on this idea, and seek alternatives that can actually solve the problem of getting fresh new content in front of the mouse cursor of the players. Solutions that are self regulated and driven by player action, to minimize the amount of resources being demanded of the company that I'd rather see spending resources on delivering new Dungeons, Classes, Races, Paragon Paths, PvP maps, Itemization, Art Assets, etc... (Fewer Reviewers, more Developers and Designers please.)
Love Bill's Tavern by the way.
Those are all great ways to publicize your content, I absolutely agree. And I think with any solution creators should also be encouraged to do just those things to build a following of players.
And I'm not looking to monetize by the way, just equalize opportunities.
And that's the thing right now, once you float to the top of the Foundry content, you're pretty likely to stay there. And if you haven't floated to the top, it's *very* likely you never will, no matter the amaze-sauce and 100% pure win your content's made of.
Perhaps every so often one person, who may have worked hard at it through numerous channels like yourself, or just caught the right attention and mood at the right time, will get a chance to float upwards. The problem is this pattern of discoverability is insufficient. And right now the distribution of plays across the content that's already there, less than 30 days from when the game was launched in to OBT, is *most* *extremely* *very* *so* *much* asymmetrical. I see this as a problem. Perhaps others don't? (See above)
I've proposed one way to provide alternate discoverability, one that creators can leverage without a significant investment of time and one guaranteed to get eyeballs. Further, I've proposed a solution not of my own construction, but one that's been observed time and again to produce results. As in a multi-billion dollar a year industry that continues to thrive because it produces results. I'd really like input on how to improve that idea's implementation in this setting, or other solutions that would be better at solving this problem.
I'd especially like to hear your ideas on this since not everyone has your background and thus may not be (probably isn't) equipped to pursue even the amount of coverage you've managed to garner, but should still be given a fair chance in some regard of having their content discovered by players.
- Zesban
What Class Are You?
I always found this view curious. A novel (or a movie) can be great even if it does not appeal to a broad audience, but the failure to do so is not what makes it remarkable. It only makes it unpopular.
Like I said, you're not asking for feedback, you're asking for confirmation of your idea. This idea has been discussed ad infinitum long before it popped into your head. There were multiple threads on Foundry Beta about this specific thing in fact, and multiple more after launch. Let me tell you specifically why your idea is bad.
Your idea is terrible because the people spending time making quality quests in Foundry are not out there grinding levels and AD to pay for advertising. I personally have 4 quests currently rated 4 stars or above. Want to know how many AD I have? Zero. I have one toon, it's level 29. All my AD goes back out in tips. Tell me how I am supposed to compete with anyone at all who is 60/T1/T2, where hundreds of thousands/millions of AD are the norm? Are you saying I should stop making content for the game to go collect AD?
The idea is a complete non starter that can't be refined. This is like the person who has been married and divorced ten times, and when you ask them they say "It's not me, it's them!" When everyone's divorcing you, it's not them, it's you.
Waits for another presumptuous post about how everyone here is wrong and can't see the brilliance of your idea...
Everyone's played chili's Crypt of Carnage or Dusk's Lady & the Worm. We know that Zovya's added cutscenes to her next quest. They've advertised themselves with their amazing content. However, for people like me that don't make top shelf content, we need a way to get our stuff out there so we can compete alongside other authors who are just as good, better, or worse.
Paying for a banner may be a step in the right direction, but it has several flaws. First and foremost, I would like to think most people use pop up blockers in this day and age so advertising out of game would be pointless. Advertising in game, however, would be much more receptive. Paying for advertising, however, gives those that are rich the power to put their content out first. How is a level 20 making above average content supposed to compete with a level 60 with a couple billion AD making less than subpar content but is able to keep his quest displayed everywhere.
A Nobleman's Request - NW-DIYMYKKVY (Avg. 33 mins)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?257001-For-the-good-of-us-all&highlight=jintortle
Is a post that I started trying to address and come up with some ideas about how to be seen.
I would go into the content on there but I am tired
ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.
Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
I think, and it's just that: unstructured thoughts while my coffee does its usual thing and refuses to finish brewing faster, that even with advertising, the core issue would still remain untouched: There's an ocean of user-created content and no efficient tools to sort through it. Giving players the means to find exactly what they want to play, depending on what mood they are presently in, is the key. A way to advertise in-game by paying AD would still result in a large number of quality quests not getting any exposure at all, because not only do players not know about them, but also, and especially, can't even find them reliably.
If I want to play quests that are in the spotlight (and ads are just another form of that), I can already look at the week's featured quests, the editor's choices, the highest rated and most played adventures. But if I sit down and think, "Hey, I'd really dig a story-based, witty and dialogue-driven mystery with light combat, and I have forty minutes of uninterrupted time.", I have no way of finding something that meets my desire. As long as such relatively fundamental basic tools aren't yet offered (I imagine those are in the works), debating in-game advertisements is a tad like discussing the color of the toilet lid in the new house before even the foundation has been dug up.
As for ads in general, I don't think Zesban's points are invalid or "bad". It's all sound. I just feel that the ideas fall in the "finishing touches" category, and that it's too soon for that when, as outlined above, players can't even properly search for the "product" they want. Ads, at this point, would be more of what we already have: Lists of offers that are unrelated to the viewer's interests in the hope that perhaps one of the "products" may appeal to her. Ads are no different. They would increase the popularity of a fraction of the quests in the catalog, but the overall situation would remain just as it is. It would only further improve it for those who already have the means to improve it (offering rewards or "payment" to players to get them to play and rate their stuff).
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If you have other ideas about how to reinforce the AD generation, balance it, and empower creators please share.
What Class Are You?
I really think a cap on how much a Creator can spend would be necessary to keep scenarios like this from happening. If this type of system could be dominated by a small handful of creators it wouldn't solve the problem in the first place, just move it.
I absolutely agree that there needs to be a massive amount of face lifting in this category in general. For instance, prioritized way above this would be a proper tagging feature that lets players browse the Foundry by tags.
Also ratings on those tags would be helpful so that just because a Foundry Module is tagged as Role Play doesn't mean it counts for Role Play if most players rate it at 1 star for Role Play.
But after a great tagging system is in place and players can browse much more specifically, it'd be great to advertise your content to players that browse for certain tags, a la ad-sense. In fact, you're more likely to catch the interest of a player if your Module is right in the niche they're looking for!
This also creates a lot more "ad space" which means there's more to go around. That, combined with caps on spending, a reasonable price for space, and a system of revenue beyond the good nature of fellow players, creates a self regulating market to expose content in. And it helps balance the use of a discoverability system without creating more work for PWE employees or for Creators who just want to write modules.
But there's a lot of tweaks and several good ideas I'm sure I don't see that could make this better. For one, I don't have a background in marketing or advertising to draw on and there's probably some good economics advice that could improve this picture as well. Not mention tons of creativity to spin off not just this idea, but other ways to solve the problem of the "content sea."
Tangent: Specifically on the topic of incentives, that's where I started for this idea. Originally I thought it'd be cool to add a way for a creator to post some incentive, like a pool of AD or something, that would be rewarded to the first set of reviewers to play through the content and review it. Eliminating the leg work in what players are already doing, saving those that do just that time, and making it easier for others who might start doing so if it weren't the time sink it is now.
But then I thought if players are willing to spend in game resources to make others aware of their module, formalizing that might have greater reach and be easier to manage. I still think making it easier to provide incentives would also be a great way to get more players engaged in reviewing new, untested content, but I felt that discoverability is still the greater issue at the moment and wanted post on that first.
Maybe they're not mutually exclusive? Perhaps the ad is tied to the incentive? That gives players a reason to pay attention to the ads, because the Creators behind them are offering additional rewards for playing their advertised content. Thoughts?
- Zesban
What Class Are You?
Sounds pretty similar to...
Hence the earlier discussion...
Distribution of the AD doesn't need to be linearly aligned to the number of plays, it can be based on a curve, and even experience diminishing returns approaching a ceiling. Also, spending on the advertising can be capped, preventing overuse or abuse. There's no need to allow for a rich get richer model to provide this type of self-reinforcing, self-regulating system.
- Zesban
What Class Are You?
This, and the ten letters of love to to quoted one!
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash