Anyone else notice how this is another thread that has gotten zero feedback on our feedback...? Just saying Players feel ignored in many threads. People that get ignored when trying to help fix the broken game the dev's placed in our face and we get zero information about anything or told to basically shut up from a dev???? The civil part of feedback is gonna slowly stop. Also its great that the community gets a talking to about being toxic but not @noworries for telling people in ranger feedback that nothing is gonna be changed nor is anything wrong when there is clearly a problem. But what do I know? I'm only someone who cared about this game and slowly am joining the bandwagon of people leaving because stupid decisions were made and then we got ignored and its very clear only one dev actually cares. But uhhh good work on telling the community our feedback needs to be only praise to our overlords the Dev's and if any slightly negative criticism is shown we gonna get booted.
it is called a Feedback LOOP for a reason. If it moves only in one direction it does not work. This particular feedback process certainly has a lot of people who seem to understand this and keep the process going. Ironically though, respect is also a two way street. Asking for respect, without showing any is likely to not get you what you are seeking.... Your point is fair, but it puts the responsibility on others while seeming to fully disavow any on your side.
I have a lot of respect for all the people participating in the process, providing feedback, acknowledging feedback, asking and answering questions and ensuring people can follow the process. I have very little for people who seem to actively avoid acknowledging any feedback, keep information to a bare minimum and refuse to actually communicate with rather than at people...
And sure, we cant see what goes on behind the scenes. People may be a lot more involved and responsive in actions than in communication. But we can only go by what we see. As inconvenient as it may be. A little more communication from some people involved would be a big help in keeping that toxicity down.
Anyone else notice how this is another thread that has gotten zero feedback on our feedback...? Just saying Players feel ignored in many threads. People that get ignored when trying to help fix the broken game the dev's placed in our face and we get zero information about anything or told to basically shut up from a dev???? The civil part of feedback is gonna slowly stop. Also its great that the community gets a talking to about being toxic but not @noworries for telling people in ranger feedback that nothing is gonna be changed nor is anything wrong when there is clearly a problem. But what do I know? I'm only someone who cared about this game and slowly am joining the bandwagon of people leaving because stupid decisions were made and then we got ignored and its very clear only one dev actually cares. But uhhh good work on telling the community our feedback needs to be only praise to our overlords the Dev's and if any slightly negative criticism is shown we gonna get booted.
barb , fighter , cleric , OP , got tons of dev answers ...and are getting updates and better everyday
hr , wizard , warlock , TR got ignored so badly , hell the wizard thread hasnt moved in 2 days , ppl got tired of talking w/o answers...again what all this classes have in common
sorry guys maybe next mod
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Anyone else notice how this is another thread that has gotten zero feedback on our feedback...? Just saying Players feel ignored in many threads. People that get ignored when trying to help fix the broken game the dev's placed in our face and we get zero information about anything or told to basically shut up from a dev???? The civil part of feedback is gonna slowly stop. Also its great that the community gets a talking to about being toxic but not @noworries for telling people in ranger feedback that nothing is gonna be changed nor is anything wrong when there is clearly a problem. But what do I know? I'm only someone who cared about this game and slowly am joining the bandwagon of people leaving because stupid decisions were made and then we got ignored and its very clear only one dev actually cares. But uhhh good work on telling the community our feedback needs to be only praise to our overlords the Dev's and if any slightly negative criticism is shown we gonna get booted.
barb , fighter , cleric , OP , got tons of dev answers ...and are getting updates and better everyday
hr , wizard , warlock , TR got ignored so badly , hell the wizard thread hasnt moved in 2 days , ppl got tired of talking w/o answers...again what all this classes have in common
sorry guys maybe next mod
Wizard had a lot of back and fortth a while back. Even got someone to say "Ehh... Fireball... maybe... I dunoo... but spell names can be changed"
So now I'll be annoyed if I'm betrayed and they don't change Sudden Storm to Lightning Bolt.
Anyone else notice how this is another thread that has gotten zero feedback on our feedback...? Just saying Players feel ignored in many threads. People that get ignored when trying to help fix the broken game the dev's placed in our face and we get zero information about anything or told to basically shut up from a dev???? The civil part of feedback is gonna slowly stop. Also its great that the community gets a talking to about being toxic but not @noworries for telling people in ranger feedback that nothing is gonna be changed nor is anything wrong when there is clearly a problem. But what do I know? I'm only someone who cared about this game and slowly am joining the bandwagon of people leaving because stupid decisions were made and then we got ignored and its very clear only one dev actually cares. But uhhh good work on telling the community our feedback needs to be only praise to our overlords the Dev's and if any slightly negative criticism is shown we gonna get booted.
barb , fighter , cleric , OP , got tons of dev answers ...and are getting updates and better everyday
hr , wizard , warlock , TR got ignored so badly , hell the wizard thread hasnt moved in 2 days , ppl got tired of talking w/o answers...again what all this classes have in common
sorry guys maybe next mod
You'll feel a lot less ignored if you look at the rogue thread.
I thought a long time and simulated lots of scenarios to come up with an optimal solution:
new Deflection Mechanic: Incoming damage is reduced by 50%. A targeting attacker is stunned for 1 second.
o This puts Deflection on par with other stats o Deflection becomes uniquely different from Defense o Accuracy, Control, and Control Resist become slightly up-valued o Solo players gain a method to gain CombatAdvantage (automatic CA versus Stunned targets) o New tactical synergies emerge
I wish we could play-test this. I think a 50% cap on the deflection above and a 75% cap on defense would improve the overall game. PvP would be a blast.
As above people have been saying. Posts are getting more and more toxic because we are being ignored. I can see that Asterdahl is responsive but that does not help me personally. I only play TR so realistically when it comes to classes that is all I care about. we had a couple comments from NoWorries on day 2 and since then it has been utter silence. It has been posted multiple times that Stealth is useless. Whisperknife is still a mostly useless path. feats and powers are in the wrong paragons, lots of powers are underperforming and cool downs are largely too long.
So what have we actually seen from the Dev's since then. Utter ignorance via the Reddit AMA when a question was asked about TR feedback and the Dev responded with answers mentioning Ranger. After that we got a fix to a power that didn't work at all. Lastly we got a few cool down reductions (and in magnitude as well) which is good to a point but this wasn't even communicated. None of those changed were included in the latest patch notes. They just randomly appeared and no one would have been the wiser except some testers happened to be looking at the powers and noticed the change.
Seriously go look at the last patch notes for test. Multiple upon multiple lines of changes for the classes that Asterdahl works on and almost no changes for the classes that NoWorries works on. Now maybe it is not as cut and dried as that on the back end but that is exactly how it is looking to the community. It looks like Asterdahl cares and NoWorries does not. Its not even just related to this mod. NoWorries has constantly shown a disregard to things posted by the players.
With the HR's are overbalanced and nothing needs to be changed comment or dating back to last mode when his overall reasoning for most of the TR changes was "100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage." This was after the fact that we proved that TR's were not the only class hitting this damage.
I don't really think it is a good idea to call out individual devs, neither in a positive way or a negative way, at least not in order to compare them along the lines "good" and "bad" dev.
I see the devs as a team with different personalities. We also do not know how the work is distributed, in particular in the tricky field of communication with the community. A has been very forthcoming with detailed explanations behind the changes, both for the classes he works on and on general design changes. NW is more matter-of-factly, occasionally blunt, not wasting words. Other devs have their own personalities, that show in the manner and frequency of their comments. That is all OK and good with me.
Furthermore, if one dev (lets call him A) has been enlightening us with the general design philosophy and the general ideas behind the decisions of the design team, the other devs need not repeat it. It suffices that one member of the team tells us, at least as far as the general design choices are concerned. Its different for the specific tasks, that have been assigned to the individual developers. I would wish that some were more forthcoming, but if they react to the feedback by working hard in the background (actually changing stuff), that is acceptable as well.
Some changes are really good, especially in the field Quality of Life (QoL). Other changes I am not too happy with, but due to the excellent explanation given by one member of the dev team, I at least understand the intent behind these changes.
However, what I am really worried about is scaling in the instances that are in the random intermediate and advanced queues (RIQ and RAQ), because this is the content that is mostly played on live and will be played in MOD 16 (in particular when the players have completed the Undermountain campaign). I do not actually know what the Devs actually mean when they talk about "scaling". The actual intent behind scaling evades me completely and it is impossible to derive the intended benefits or punishments behind scaling from the "scaled" instances in RIQ and RAQ, because scaling is such a mess.
EDIT: Scaling in its current implementation actually punishes the low IL players. I cannot believe that this is the intended behavior.
Post edited by motu999#9953 on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
However, what I am really worried about is scaling in the instances that are in the random intermediate and advanced queues (RIQ and RAQ), because this is the content that is mostly played on live and will be played in MOD 16 (in particular when the players have completed the Undermountain campaign). I do not actually know what the Devs actually mean when they talk about "scaling". The actual intent behind scaling evades me completely and it is impossible to derive the intended benefits or punishments behind scaling from the "scaled" instances in RIQ and RAQ, because scaling is utterly broken.
In many ways it is, broken, part of the scaling, there is a cap, and not an actual scaling, meaning, that for example all your enchants will have a maximum ratings of a rank 8 enchant. People massively over gearing content, especially the lower level one, has been a problem for a while, but this scaling solution is a heavy shift to the other side. Contrary to actual scaling, linear or non linear, capping breaks a simple concept: If you have issues with content, gear more, and return to it later.
IMO the initial problem of players encouraged into leveling queues is the source of the problem, and the source should be fixed. Any scaling should be upwards to the content, making dungeons more difficult when such tiers needed, and not trying to squeeze BiS players and leveling into the same content.
I don't really think it is a good idea to call out individual devs, neither in a positive way or a negative way, at least not in order to compare them along the lines "good" and "bad" dev.
I see the devs as a team with different personalities. We also do not know how the work is distributed, in particular in the tricky field of communication with the community. A has been very forthcoming with detailed explanations behind the changes, both for the classes he works on and on general design changes. NW is more matter-of-factly, occasionally blunt, not wasting words. Other devs have their own personalities, that show in the manner and frequency of their comments. That is all OK and good with me.
You are right in that we do not know how the work is differentiated. all we have to go on is what is being written by the devs right now and how they have previously acted. Judging by the posts that have been made it seems pretty clear who is working on what (although I previously stated this may not be a case). The problem is there is a very obvious and distinct feedback process for certain threads compared to other threads and they seem to align to the what the general consensus is on who manages which threads.
The problem is there is a very obvious and distinct feedback process for certain threads compared to other threads and they seem to align to the what the general consensus is on who manages which threads.
You are certainly right here, and I am in some sense lucky that most classes I play are handled by a dev that gives very good feedback. So you could say, I am not as negatively affected as the people that play the other classes. Essentially I am blind to some problems, because the (currently) not concern me.
In any case, having said that it should be obvious as a general rule: Even if a dev works mostly in the background, giving feedback only makes sense if the people that give the feedback actually see improvements from one preview build to the next. Not sure if this is the case for all classes, because I am more or less blind to the classes that I do not (normally) play.
And that the very obvious and distinct feedback process is directly and obviously creating better, more balanced, more fun classes versus the distinct lack thereof in the other half. Even if the bugs being reported get fixed, half of the classes are getting shafted in having an actually rewritten, better character to play because the feedback loop is not being engaged. Those of us stuck on the dark side of the tracks have no idea where to target our testing or feedback. We don't know what, or if anything, is actually on the table to be improved (outside of simple bugs). We don't know how or why any of the decisions that get made are made; most of the time we don't even know what those decisions are or were. That's a big deal. There are lots of things that COULD be improved for flavor, or balance, or utility, or synergy, or just plain fun. But if we can't talk about them WITH our developer as is the case right now, there's no chance of any of that coming to fruition. I don't dislike Noworries in any sort of personal way, nor do I think that he is in any way subpar at the technical aspects of his job, nor do I think he isn't busy doing things. But, whatever the reason, the fact that he does not engage in conversation does actually matter and impact not only the players feelings trying to help but the actual end product that gets released.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I feel like a toxic feedback community is just a matter of how things work.
The people who go on the preview shard aren't paid beta testers. They're people who have expectations and their investment is their personal enjoyment. You shouldn't expect the same level of feedback from randos who play your game on the internet as a team explicitly trained in/experienced in professional testing.
This is my "free beta testing is bad for the gaming industry rant" but honestly, firms have to cut costs and I guess this is one of the ways they do so, so the alternative is probably no game at all.
But okay, enough of that. The main thing is, it's not realistic for the dev team-whose primary job is development-to constantly hold our hands and tell us "X Y Z is being the thing and stuff" every time we have questions. But in order to get a sufficient level of enthusiasm with this model of free testers, you kind of need that. So the model is broken. But it's still probably better than nothing? But the end result is that feedback is always going to be warped, tilt towards the negative, lots of bugs will make it to live, etc. That's just the consequences of the limited resources allocated to the project that is Neverwinter, and I'm not convinced that there's a better model out there (from the perspective of a money making venture-obviously, there are better ways to make a good game, they just are less profitable).
Instead of people getting mad with the Devs for not replying enough, I encourage everyone to become nihilistic and disillusioned with the gaming industry, and trade their anger in for despair and tepid resignation. It's less exhausting to sigh under your breath than it is to foam angrily on the internet, after all. And probably no less helpful for the dev team!
But okay, enough of that. The main thing is, it's not realistic for the dev team-whose primary job is development-to constantly hold our hands and tell us "X Y Z is being the thing and stuff" every time we have questions.
I don't think that anyone is asking for this. What we are asking for is a basic amount of communication. Since I have been referencing it already look at the TR thread, not a single developer comment in 19 days.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
But okay, enough of that. The main thing is, it's not realistic for the dev team-whose primary job is development-to constantly hold our hands and tell us "X Y Z is being the thing and stuff" every time we have questions.
I don't think that anyone is asking for this. What we are asking for is a basic amount of communication. Since I have been referencing it already look at the TR thread, not a single developer comment in 19 days.
If they had the resources, they'd have a community manager who acted as an intermediary between the dev team and the forums, instead of just having the devs sometimes comment on the forums.
My personal opinion is that this module is still to young to implement. You guys got a lot of feedback over everything on these weeks to turn down the preview server for a time to fix everything listed and then send it back again for test. As other ppl have stated above we do not get at least a "hey thats not wai, we will take a look" from the devs when we give our feedback on most posts. Then we see better response on barbies, fighters, etc threads. I play a warlock only and when i see that on the warlock thread they discuss only minor things when there are core problems along with the poor response makes me want to cry. You then see the patch notes for preview where you are giving minor adjustments to balancing magnitudes when there are major issues and bugs makes us feel more ignored. For example on the companions most active bonuses are way too wrong, where you gave archons a chance skill that is useless and other companions that give 100% dmg or 5 stacks of 8%. Artifacts are nowhere near working good and also mobs and lvl scaling also working wrong. How can someone test any dmg or survibability with that. Its even things that everyone noticed from day 1 of preview. I think that you should turn off preview, fix these things and then you can get better responses and results. Im sure all of us can wait for the changes to be implemented there is no deadline here, but if the module gets implemented wrong is like throwing the whole game to the garbage
I really dont know how the dev operating, but they should focus on DAYLY-PLANING. IF they only spend 2% time each week on TR and 22% on different class that is probably because they CHOSE to do it, because they specialize in this class.. because they play this class and know how this class works and they also get motivation to work and reward at the end of the road with the comments of their broders in arms.
Can we argue with that? I dont think so? Unskilled developer create more mess and break code than someone experience. I should thanks those developers that they dont try work on TR class, because if they start doing something they will further break him, but current state of the class xD is telling me that: "hey PLEASE put (not 1 but) 4 unskilled developers to join forces and fix this class already."
ASAP
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I really dont know how the dev operating, but they should focus on DAYLY-PLANING. IF they only spend 2% time each week on TR and 22% on different class that is probably because they CHOSE to do it, because they specialize in this class.. because they play this class and know how this class works and they also get motivation to work and reward at the end of the road with the comments of their broders in arms.
Can we argue with that? I dont think so? Unskilled developer create more mess and break code than someone experience. I should thanks those developers that they dont try work on TR class, because if they start doing something they will further break him, but current state of the class xD is telling me that: "hey PLEASE put (not 1 but) 4 unskilled developers to join forces and fix this class already."
What a surprise, curently i try to give feedback about guardian fighter and i am properly deleted each time i post. I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone. I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care, i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
What a surprise, curently i try to give feedback about guardian fighter and i am properly deleted each time i post. I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone. I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care, i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
Are you editing? That flags you as spam. Happens to me too when I try to fix the spelling errors made by autocorrect.
> @abelcoeurdacier said: > What a surprise, curently i try to give feedback about guardian fighter and i am properly deleted each time i post. > I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone. > I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care, > i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
Had the same issue, contact a moderator. It gets flagged as spam, really quite frustrating. Had it happen multiple times untill moderator resolved issue.
It is of course completely unacceptable for folks to post passive aggressive, toxic etc comments, and that should be dealt in the most appropriate way. Sometimes these comments are because the poster is an unpleasant person. There's no real way around that beyond the aforementioned penalty.
However, I think that it then becomes easy to miss the human factor behind the rest of those posts. Certainly there is a polarity to feedback with this new module. Particularly in the class balance threads. On the face of things, approximately 50% of these threads have what appears to be a conversational and productive back and forth, where as the other 50% do not. This could be down to so many factors that we as a community are unaware of and frankly, I don't think I could imagine the type of pressures that the Dev team operate under.
I do believe though, that the surest way to cultivate vitriolic comments or in the case of one thread a near absence of comments at all, is to remain mute. This is perhaps one of the most vital places to make more effort to re/establish that conversation. I say this because no one should be under the illusion that a comparable absence of feedback posts from players of a particular class is a tacit agreement/acceptance of changes. It actually reflects attrition of trust and of players progressive feeling of abandonment.
If I'm being too vague with this, I'm alluding to (but not exclusively) the Trickster Rogue thread.
with all the provided feedback and views on how feedback should be provided from both sides, is there a chance that we get feedback "from the other side" too? Maybe an explanation why there is such a great difference of dev activity in the feedback threads.
What a surprise, curently i try to give feedback about guardian fighter and i am properly deleted each time i post. I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone. I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care, i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
Are you editing? That flags you as spam. Happens to me too when I try to fix the spelling errors made by autocorrect.
Ok, didnt know that, ty for information. Yes i was editing.
Everyone has their own method and strength in dealing with their job. Forcing someone to do something he is not good at aren't gonna help. Instead it might be less efficient. So I suggest leave the developer be and wait for m16 arrival. If people wanna help then keep filling in bug report and feedback. If not then just wait for the m16 arrival and decide on staying or leaving by then.
Everyone has their own method and strength in dealing with their job. Forcing someone to do something he is not good at aren't gonna help. Instead it might be less efficient. So I suggest leave the developer be and wait for m16 arrival. If people wanna help then keep filling in bug report and feedback. If not then just wait for the m16 arrival and decide on staying or leaving by then.
I completely agree that trying to make someone do something they are not good at is counterproductive....
But..
If you promise us a feedback process. Give us one and give us one that works. And if people are not comfortable with the communication level this requires. shift that responsibility to someone that can do that part of the job
For a lot of classes and features the current working definition of the feedback process is:
We may, occasionally, tell you what we are doing, but we will share none to little of our reasoning.
Regardless of how much feedback you provide we will not interact with you in any way
We will acknowledge none of your attempts at communication
The exceptions to this are much appreciated, but the overall level of communication is disgraceful for anything that has the label "feedback" applied.
And lets be very clear, NOBODY forced you to label these as feedback threads or to assign devs to specific topics. But by doing so you created expectations that are, for a significant number of classes/features, not being met in the slightest.
Maybe next time avoid this pitfall and just be honest and say "We may post something, every now and then, if we feel like it and the moon aligns just right. Mostly we will do what we want regardless of what you say or do and you will likely hear nothing from us but crickets...". It may not look as good from a PR standpoint, but I for one would prefer it over this utter shambles. A lot of us understand the economics of IT projects, there are limited resources, you need to deliver and developers are rarely great communicators (some IT cliche's are earned..). Its fine. But please stop treating us as morons that can be swayed with a few flowery promises up front. Save it for your marketing presentations...
Everyone has their own method and strength in dealing with their job. Forcing someone to do something he is not good at aren't gonna help. Instead it might be less efficient. So I suggest leave the developer be and wait for m16 arrival. If people wanna help then keep filling in bug report and feedback. If not then just wait for the m16 arrival and decide on staying or leaving by then.
I completely agree that trying to make someone do something they are not good at is counterproductive....
But..
If you promise us a feedback process. Give us one and give us one that works. And if people are not comfortable with the communication level this requires. shift that responsibility to someone that can do that part of the job
For a lot of classes and features the current working definition of the feedback process is:
We may, occasionally, tell you what we are doing, but we will share none to little of our reasoning.
Regardless of how much feedback you provide we will not interact with you in any way
We will acknowledge none of your attempts at communication
The exceptions to this are much appreciated, but the overall level of communication is disgraceful for anything that has the label "feedback" applied.
And lets be very clear, NOBODY forced you to label these as feedback threads or to assign devs to specific topics. But by doing so you created expectations that are, for a significant number of classes/features, not being met in the slightest.
Maybe next time avoid this pitfall and just be honest and say "We may post something, every now and then, if we feel like it and the moon aligns just right. Mostly we will do what we want regardless of what you say or do and you will likely hear nothing from us but crickets...". It may not look as good from a PR standpoint, but I for one would prefer it over this utter shambles. A lot of us understand the economics of IT projects, there are limited resources, you need to deliver and developers are rarely great communicators (some IT cliche's are earned..). Its fine. But please stop treating us as morons that can be swayed with a few flowery promises up front. Save it for your marketing presentations...
From my experience in other game forum, game designer rarely post in the forum and they only post whenever they feel chatty. Its usually the job of community manager to bridge the communication between the player base and developer team, usually by information gathering from the developer team to answer the player's question. If the info can't be disclose yet to the community, its the job of community manager to explain that to the player. But I might be wrong since every company has its own policy and job description. What I know for sure is that game designer isn't obligate to respond in the forum. It isn't their job. Player should be thankful they do and not take it for granted.
Feedback does not inherently mean that the people giving feedback will get a response. The threads are properly named what they are. A thread for players to GIVE feedback. By definition, there is no requirement for the devs to respond.
Would it be nice? Yes. But this is the most dev feedback i've seen on any mod in neverwinter (at least from certain devs).
Sure, it delivers a complete new game that uses the infrastructure of neverwinter. And in that special case, a small "Hey, read and acknowleged " really kind, especially if you write a 4 post-long feedback like trueglue did. But it´s ok at all. It seems like these mentioned classes nearly work as intended and are adjusted vie Barbarian in dps.
Comments
it is called a Feedback LOOP for a reason. If it moves only in one direction it does not work.
This particular feedback process certainly has a lot of people who seem to understand this and keep the process going. Ironically though, respect is also a two way street. Asking for respect, without showing any is likely to not get you what you are seeking.... Your point is fair, but it puts the responsibility on others while seeming to fully disavow any on your side.
I have a lot of respect for all the people participating in the process, providing feedback, acknowledging feedback, asking and answering questions and ensuring people can follow the process. I have very little for people who seem to actively avoid acknowledging any feedback, keep information to a bare minimum and refuse to actually communicate with rather than at people...
And sure, we cant see what goes on behind the scenes. People may be a lot more involved and responsive in actions than in communication. But we can only go by what we see. As inconvenient as it may be. A little more communication from some people involved would be a big help in keeping that toxicity down.
hr , wizard , warlock , TR got ignored so badly , hell the wizard thread hasnt moved in 2 days , ppl got tired of talking w/o answers...again what all this classes have in common
sorry guys maybe next mod
So now I'll be annoyed if I'm betrayed and they don't change Sudden Storm to Lightning Bolt.
So what have we actually seen from the Dev's since then. Utter ignorance via the Reddit AMA when a question was asked about TR feedback and the Dev responded with answers mentioning Ranger. After that we got a fix to a power that didn't work at all. Lastly we got a few cool down reductions (and in magnitude as well) which is good to a point but this wasn't even communicated. None of those changed were included in the latest patch notes. They just randomly appeared and no one would have been the wiser except some testers happened to be looking at the powers and noticed the change.
Seriously go look at the last patch notes for test. Multiple upon multiple lines of changes for the classes that Asterdahl works on and almost no changes for the classes that NoWorries works on. Now maybe it is not as cut and dried as that on the back end but that is exactly how it is looking to the community. It looks like Asterdahl cares and NoWorries does not. Its not even just related to this mod. NoWorries has constantly shown a disregard to things posted by the players.
With the HR's are overbalanced and nothing needs to be changed comment or dating back to last mode when his overall reasoning for most of the TR changes was "100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage." This was after the fact that we proved that TR's were not the only class hitting this damage.
Respect is not given freely, it is earned.
I see the devs as a team with different personalities. We also do not know how the work is distributed, in particular in the tricky field of communication with the community. A has been very forthcoming with detailed explanations behind the changes, both for the classes he works on and on general design changes. NW is more matter-of-factly, occasionally blunt, not wasting words. Other devs have their own personalities, that show in the manner and frequency of their comments. That is all OK and good with me.
Furthermore, if one dev (lets call him A) has been enlightening us with the general design philosophy and the general ideas behind the decisions of the design team, the other devs need not repeat it. It suffices that one member of the team tells us, at least as far as the general design choices are concerned. Its different for the specific tasks, that have been assigned to the individual developers. I would wish that some were more forthcoming, but if they react to the feedback by working hard in the background (actually changing stuff), that is acceptable as well.
Some changes are really good, especially in the field Quality of Life (QoL). Other changes I am not too happy with, but due to the excellent explanation given by one member of the dev team, I at least understand the intent behind these changes.
However, what I am really worried about is scaling in the instances that are in the random intermediate and advanced queues (RIQ and RAQ), because this is the content that is mostly played on live and will be played in MOD 16 (in particular when the players have completed the Undermountain campaign). I do not actually know what the Devs actually mean when they talk about "scaling". The actual intent behind scaling evades me completely and it is impossible to derive the intended benefits or punishments behind scaling from the "scaled" instances in RIQ and RAQ, because scaling is such a mess.
EDIT: Scaling in its current implementation actually punishes the low IL players. I cannot believe that this is the intended behavior.
People massively over gearing content, especially the lower level one, has been a problem for a while, but this scaling solution is a heavy shift to the other side.
Contrary to actual scaling, linear or non linear, capping breaks a simple concept: If you have issues with content, gear more, and return to it later.
IMO the initial problem of players encouraged into leveling queues is the source of the problem, and the source should be fixed. Any scaling should be upwards to the content, making dungeons more difficult when such tiers needed, and not trying to squeeze BiS players and leveling into the same content.
In any case, having said that it should be obvious as a general rule: Even if a dev works mostly in the background, giving feedback only makes sense if the people that give the feedback actually see improvements from one preview build to the next. Not sure if this is the case for all classes, because I am more or less blind to the classes that I do not (normally) play.
The people who go on the preview shard aren't paid beta testers. They're people who have expectations and their investment is their personal enjoyment. You shouldn't expect the same level of feedback from randos who play your game on the internet as a team explicitly trained in/experienced in professional testing.
This is my "free beta testing is bad for the gaming industry rant" but honestly, firms have to cut costs and I guess this is one of the ways they do so, so the alternative is probably no game at all.
But okay, enough of that. The main thing is, it's not realistic for the dev team-whose primary job is development-to constantly hold our hands and tell us "X Y Z is being the thing and stuff" every time we have questions. But in order to get a sufficient level of enthusiasm with this model of free testers, you kind of need that. So the model is broken. But it's still probably better than nothing? But the end result is that feedback is always going to be warped, tilt towards the negative, lots of bugs will make it to live, etc. That's just the consequences of the limited resources allocated to the project that is Neverwinter, and I'm not convinced that there's a better model out there (from the perspective of a money making venture-obviously, there are better ways to make a good game, they just are less profitable).
Instead of people getting mad with the Devs for not replying enough, I encourage everyone to become nihilistic and disillusioned with the gaming industry, and trade their anger in for despair and tepid resignation. It's less exhausting to sigh under your breath than it is to foam angrily on the internet, after all. And probably no less helpful for the dev team!
As other ppl have stated above we do not get at least a "hey thats not wai, we will take a look" from the devs when we give our feedback on most posts. Then we see better response on barbies, fighters, etc threads. I play a warlock only and when i see that on the warlock thread they discuss only minor things when there are core problems along with the poor response makes me want to cry.
You then see the patch notes for preview where you are giving minor adjustments to balancing magnitudes when there are major issues and bugs makes us feel more ignored. For example on the companions most active bonuses are way too wrong, where you gave archons a chance skill that is useless and other companions that give 100% dmg or 5 stacks of 8%. Artifacts are nowhere near working good and also mobs and lvl scaling also working wrong. How can someone test any dmg or survibability with that. Its even things that everyone noticed from day 1 of preview.
I think that you should turn off preview, fix these things and then you can get better responses and results. Im sure all of us can wait for the changes to be implemented there is no deadline here, but if the module gets implemented wrong is like throwing the whole game to the garbage
Can we argue with that? I dont think so? Unskilled developer create more mess and break code than someone experience.
I should thanks those developers that they dont try work on TR class, because if they start doing something they will further break him, but current state of the class xD is telling me that:
"hey PLEASE put (not 1 but) 4 unskilled developers to join forces and fix this class already."
ASAP
I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone.
I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care,
i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
> What a surprise, curently i try to give feedback about guardian fighter and i am properly deleted each time i post.
> I am not rude in my post and i dont insult anyone.
> I spend time to translate from french to english but they dont care,
> i suppose i must been from family devs to post an opinion.
Had the same issue, contact a moderator. It gets flagged as spam, really quite frustrating. Had it happen multiple times untill moderator resolved issue.
Sometimes these comments are because the poster is an unpleasant person. There's no real way around that beyond the aforementioned penalty.
However, I think that it then becomes easy to miss the human factor behind the rest of those posts.
Certainly there is a polarity to feedback with this new module. Particularly in the class balance threads.
On the face of things, approximately 50% of these threads have what appears to be a conversational and productive back and forth, where as the other 50% do not.
This could be down to so many factors that we as a community are unaware of and frankly, I don't think I could imagine the type of pressures that the Dev team operate under.
I do believe though, that the surest way to cultivate vitriolic comments or in the case of one thread a near absence of comments at all, is to remain mute.
This is perhaps one of the most vital places to make more effort to re/establish that conversation. I say this because no one should be under the illusion that a comparable absence of feedback posts from players of a particular class is a tacit agreement/acceptance of changes.
It actually reflects attrition of trust and of players progressive feeling of abandonment.
If I'm being too vague with this, I'm alluding to (but not exclusively) the Trickster Rogue thread.
with all the provided feedback and views on how feedback should be provided from both sides, is there a chance that we get feedback "from the other side" too? Maybe an explanation why there is such a great difference of dev activity in the feedback threads.
But..
If you promise us a feedback process. Give us one and give us one that works. And if people are not comfortable with the communication level this requires. shift that responsibility to someone that can do that part of the job
For a lot of classes and features the current working definition of the feedback process is:
- We may, occasionally, tell you what we are doing, but we will share none to little of our reasoning.
- Regardless of how much feedback you provide we will not interact with you in any way
- We will acknowledge none of your attempts at communication
The exceptions to this are much appreciated, but the overall level of communication is disgraceful for anything that has the label "feedback" applied.And lets be very clear, NOBODY forced you to label these as feedback threads or to assign devs to specific topics. But by doing so you created expectations that are, for a significant number of classes/features, not being met in the slightest.
Maybe next time avoid this pitfall and just be honest and say "We may post something, every now and then, if we feel like it and the moon aligns just right. Mostly we will do what we want regardless of what you say or do and you will likely hear nothing from us but crickets...". It may not look as good from a PR standpoint, but I for one would prefer it over this utter shambles. A lot of us understand the economics of IT projects, there are limited resources, you need to deliver and developers are rarely great communicators (some IT cliche's are earned..). Its fine. But please stop treating us as morons that can be swayed with a few flowery promises up front. Save it for your marketing presentations...
Would it be nice? Yes. But this is the most dev feedback i've seen on any mod in neverwinter (at least from certain devs).