@asterdahl: you forgot to list the daily bonus for random epic dungeons for some reason, sorry if it has been mentioned already. As others I am still mystified by this idea to forcefully shepherd me into the leveling dungeons... reasons have been named already. You now raised/redistributed the daily bonus ad considerably. So I would now be concerned about inflation? (cos I´m german...lol..jk) What if a lot of players engage in the burn-out inducing activity (oh, the irony) of running boatloads of alts through the one baby-dungeon and skirmish creating tons of ad (and burn-out) quickly? While more regular or casual players look at ever more astronomical prices? Just asking. I´ll consider myself brave if I don´t suffer burn-out after a while from doing this routine on one or two toons. Sure...for the better part of content up to cn any mid-geared toon is quite overpowered anyways but still...it at least feels like you´re doing -something- ...as opposed to running a leveling dungeon. That will make you seriously consider playing pokemon after a while since the combat there might be more exciting.
You have one daily bonus for random dungeon. You can choose random level dungeon or random epic dungeon or ...
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @asterdahl said: > There's a lot of newer "catch-up" gear, and this is wonderful, but almost none of it is instantly available for new players. > > Players can still run epic content manually to obtain seals of the protector, which can in turn be used to obtain relic armor which is more than sufficient to progress through any of the currently available campaigns. > > My point was not that new players can instantly skip to 11k, but that there is actually a reason for them to manually run epic contents they are eligible for to work on advancing to 11k. The point of epic dungeons is not exclusively daily AD bonuses, and you do not need to be 11k to manually queue for something.
You do know you still need thousands of Voninblood for restauration for just a single piece? So you really want to advice fresh lvl 70 players to go to Bryn Shander or even SOMI?
And stripping AD and the bag of seals from private queues, giving them into random queues and calling this an "improvement" and "bonus rewards" for running random stuff - are you f.. kidding me? You screw us for running private, that's the only thing you do! You don't want us to get the bag of seals, AD as finishing bonus and stronghold shards in a single run, the only question is why? Why do you hate us?
4
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,435Arc User
> There's a lot of newer "catch-up" gear, and this is wonderful, but almost none of it is instantly available for new players.
>
> Players can still run epic content manually to obtain seals of the protector, which can in turn be used to obtain relic armor which is more than sufficient to progress through any of the currently available campaigns.
>
> My point was not that new players can instantly skip to 11k, but that there is actually a reason for them to manually run epic contents they are eligible for to work on advancing to 11k. The point of epic dungeons is not exclusively daily AD bonuses, and you do not need to be 11k to manually queue for something.
You do know you still need thousands of Voninblood for restauration for just a single piece? So you really want to advice fresh lvl 70 players to go to Bryn Shander or even SOMI?
And stripping AD and the bag of seals from private queues, giving them into random queues and calling this an "improvement" and "bonus rewards" for running random stuff - are you f.. kidding me? You screw us for running private, that's the only thing you do! You don't want us to get the bag of seals, AD as finishing bonus and stronghold shards in a single run, the only question is why? Why do you hate us?
I believe there are mod 12 gear and weapon available in AH and they are cheap because people can just craft them from next to nothing. Last time I check, they are in low 5 digit AD and level 70 character can use them. I personally would not touch any runic gear/weapon any more.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
You don't want us to get the bag of seals, AD as finishing bonus and stronghold shards in a single run, the only question is why? Why do you hate us?
I don't find it a coincidence that they're deterring long time players from earning quick daily AD by removing it from non-random queues while coming out with new ranks for enchants that will cost an arm and a leg.
They don't hate us. They just like our money more than they like us.
7
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,435Arc User
So you really want to advice fresh lvl 70 players to go to Bryn Shander or even SOMI?
It's just plain cruel to advise any player to visit any part of M10. I couldn't live with myself if I ever sent anyone there.
The problem is if one does not do mod 10 campaign, one cannot do FBI or MSVA. If one cannot do FBI or MSVA, one cannot join the random queues that has FBI or MSVA.
So, these folks including 4 of my 5 active toon will not join the bandwagon of the associated random queue even if they want to (I am not saying I want to).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Random queues is something we've wanted to implement for a while to improve the play experience.
I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.
It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that.
This cannot be an honest attempt to keep players interested. The reason why we don't play certain dungeons is because they are cruelly dull and time-consuming. Now you're forcing us to run stuff we don't like. How does that make sense in your head?
Wanna keep us interested, and keep new players form quitting? How about devote some of this manpower to improve the old dungeons? Add some strategy, tweak the numbers. Cut the mobs between bosses in half, for starters, cause that's cannon fodder and not where the challenge lies.
> @asterdahl said: > Random queues is something we've wanted to implement for a while to improve the play experience. > > I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing. > > It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that.
We're not going to tell new players running TOS everyday for a lifetime cause we decide by ourself which dungeons we want to do. Now we can't anymore if we want to be rewarded for it, now you steal us the right to run what we want to. This is more a real reason to quit the game than anything else and some in my guild said they would quit if this goes live. They don't want to be randomized and i don't want either, this is plain stupid..
#yolo queueing MSP is HAMSTER af, there's been people with pre-made groups taking up to 3 hours, a single person can't carry 4 under geared ppl through, and at the end is always the possibility of getting that wonderful Trash of the Ascended or a single Peridot (both, if you're lucky enough!!), bosses don't even have guaranteed drops and the end chests rewards are gonna get even MORE worthless junk thanks to the new RP system making a TON of artifacts obsolete.
We probably wouldn't be so much against this particular change and the Bonding one if it wasn't for the utterly awful rewards we get from end-game dungeons. Its like: "End-game adventurers need to be rewarded appropriately, I'm sure they'll appreciate getting a SINGLE Peridot!" ._.
I swear the more I think about ALL of this changes working together at once, the more it saddens me.
#yolo queueing MSP is HAMSTER af, there's been people with pre-made groups taking up to 3 hours, a single person can't carry 4 under geared ppl through, and at the end is always the possibility of getting that wonderful Trash of the Ascended or a single Peridot (both, if you're lucky enough!!), bosses don't even have guaranteed drops and the end chests rewards are gonna get even MORE worthless junk thanks to the new RP system making a TON of artifacts obsolete.
We probably wouldn't be so much against this particular change and the Bonding one if it wasn't for the utterly awful rewards we get from end-game dungeons. Its like: "End-game adventurers need to be rewarded appropriately, I'm sure they'll appreciate getting a SINGLE Peridot!" ._.
I swear the more I think about ALL of this changes working together at once, the more it saddens me.
Agree with everything you say here, with the exception of the bolded bit. I mean, you're right that the vast majority of artifacts are going to be rendered completely worthless, but the Fragmented Key of Stars is going to continue to be valuable.
@asterdahl: you forgot to list the daily bonus for random epic dungeons for some reason, sorry if it has been mentioned already.
It was mentioned in the original post, the post you're referring to was listing changes to the values from the original post. Epic dungeon's daily bonus remained unchanged from 5000, that is why it was not listed.
There will always be players that rage and whine when balancing happens, but the majority of people will gladly accept and adopt changes or policies that are honestly explained, even if the answer is that there is no answer for legal reasons or that you guys just don't know or care about it
Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature? I have tried to be clear about the goals of the random queue feature as well as why we have made certain adjustments or why we won't be making certain adjustments.
In some cases, there are those who will feel like an answer is unsatisfactory, or simply disagree with the premise, and simply ask a question again that has already been answered. Generally we try not to get too bogged down answering the same questions too many times, so keep that in mind.
> @asterdahl said: > Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature?
Yes - why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues and force them to do random stuff they don't want to do to get the almost same reward?
There is no explanation for this and "improving stuff for new players" is only an excuse.
> > Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature?
>
> Yes - why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues and force them to do random stuff they don't want to do to get the almost same reward?
>
> There is no explanation for this and "improving stuff for new players" is only an excuse.
Answer: to force people to run a bigger variety of content.
Also to increase the frequency at which various pug queues pop.
> @protrctor42#1320 said: > I have a very simple question: > Will Public/Private queued dungeons give RAD?
It will, but only the small repeatable amount. Only the random queues will give the big thousands of ADs payouts
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature? I have tried to be clear about the goals of the random queue feature as well as why we have made certain adjustments or why we won't be making certain adjustments.
Players keep asking the same questions over and over, because they simply do not understand why you want to make this mistake. We have explained how this hurts more than this helps, and why this change will totally fail to meet its stated goals.
It is simply a design failure - just like the stronghold marauders, to name one other recent mistake (and we note that you have not done anything to correct the design failures there).
Now, this is coming not just from a player who has been here since the first day of open beta - I am also someone who has been involved with software development for the last 35 years - and believe me - I do understand the importance of keeping users happy.
My only question right now is which game I should play if Mod 12B results in a player exodus that basically makes the game non-viable.
Hoping for improvements...
3
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@asterdahl if you're still looking into rewards can you evaluate the chance of "special" equipment drop on dungeons final chest (i mean equipment like survivor's wraps, bloodlord visage, picaroon tricorne etc)? At their introduction the drop chance was great but now......for example i did around 20 dungeon runs in the last week and none of them announced in the chat that someone dropped one of those, so i assume they were removed, either intentionally or not.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,435Arc User
Can you update the information in the first page to the latest version of the change? It is hard to find the new adjustment and people get confused with the old information. Thanks.
EDIT: Update to add cyan colour.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Here is my specific question: why did you combine all epic dungeons in one random queue instead of breaking out T1, T2, and T3.
The time for completion for the harder T2 and especially T3 dungeons is easily 10x more than T1.
It seems like you are designing for players who are willing to join queues regardless of length, whereas most people I know are very concerned with length of time and often join queues based on how much time they have available.
It feels like the random queue mechanic was designed to benefit a type of player that doesn't really exist, but hurts several types of players that I personally know (folks trying to reach 11k, and time-limited players)
Seems the randomness is mostly an anti-botting strategy. Generally I don't mind. My biggest concern is FBI/MSP/ToNG being in the mix. I haven't unlocked ToNG yet on any toon. But I certainly would not run any of them only for AD. I would leave, take the penalty, and switch toons. If all four of my toons are locked out, then I go surf the web or something.
> @asterdahl said: > @asterdahl: you forgot to list the daily bonus for random epic dungeons for some reason, sorry if it has been mentioned already. > > It was mentioned in the original post, the post you're referring to was listing changes to the values from the original post. Epic dungeon's daily bonus remained unchanged from 5000, that is why it was not listed. There will always be players that rage and whine when balancing happens, but the majority of people will gladly accept and adopt changes or policies that are honestly explained, even if the answer is that there is no answer for legal reasons or that you guys just don't know or care about it > > Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature? I have tried to be clear about the goals of the random queue feature as well as why we have made certain adjustments or why we won't be making certain adjustments. > > In some cases, there are those who will feel like an answer is unsatisfactory, or simply disagree with the premise, and simply ask a question again that has already been answered. Generally we try not to get too bogged down answering the same questions too many times, so keep that in mind.
Yes, I have a specific question regarding the leaver penalty. In my opinion you have not explained the real benefit of this being implemented other than people won't just abandon instance till they get etos.
If that is the case, doesnt that show/tell you that your player base isn't looking to run other dungeons? Also, you made mention of people leaving until they get a 14k group, well is it your belief that a 14k toon is expected to carry a 8k or 9k toon thru CN? Why should I as 14k toon be penalized with an extremely long run due to low score teammates or even a fail group, or I get stuck with a 30 min penalty realizing the group wont succeed.
So I am supposed to have faith in this random Queues change .When it cant even set up a good PVP match. I dont know you and more importantly you dont know me. So I shall decide what I shall run and you can take this clear removal of free AD from the game and do as you will. Because that is just what I shall be doing. I have had VIP from the very start of that and with the RNG in this game I still dont have a single orange ride .Thanks I shall stop giving you money for that as well. Good Hunting.
> > The only difference here will be that you will not receive the 600 repeatable AD bonus you used to receive for running subsequent dungeons after your daily bonus is obtained. Depending on the number of alts you have and the amount of time you have to play, you may be earning rough AD faster in the new world, even with just the 2 aforementioned random queues. Certainly on days where you only have time to run 2 queues you will be earning more per day.
OK I missed a day or so of following and there are 5 pages since this quote so I apologize if this has been answered and I just haven't gotten there yet.
Based on your quote "you will not receive the repeatable 600 AD bonus" does that mean that we have to continue random queueing to get the repeat AD? So do we no longer get any AD for manual queueing or running any content in categories that we don't have the random queue option? Does manual queueing reward any AD at all other than salvage?
@asterdahl Here is an idea that I have not heard yet and may solve a ton of problems. Level is not a limiter for random queueing so how about making campaign completion not be a limiter either? Keep IL but have it to where unlocking is no longer a factor.
I can tell you from a player that has just recently started my first alt and just today started my 2nd alt one of the things that I hated the most during my low level playing was dungeons because I always had to deal with high geared players running through the dungeon and me just trying to keep up. I can absolutely in all seriousness say that I know Caverns of Karrundax backwards better than I do forwards because I always had to run back to the beginning afterwards to collect all 5 of the treasure chests and all 15 professions kits. I was even booted by more than 1 group because I was not able to keep up and I can't tell you how many times I was left for dead in the dungeon as they ran past stuff. High level players in low dungeons are an absolute bane of that content for leveling players.
Where to start. The idea of a random queue is not a bad idea, but the implementation of it is horrible, to say the least. Your stated goal is to help new players gear up faster, but the way that you are going about it is way off the mark.
Proper implementation of the random queue system would be closer to this.
1. Introduce it with Challenge Rated (CR) (Tiered) epic dungeon content based on average party IL. That way it makes it more worth while for higher IL players to play the lower content (Pugging).Maybe tier it for every 1,000 IL average per player. (Thought about every 500 IL but that wouldn't work.)
So for Tier 1 Dungeons with IL of 7,500 set: CR 1 for 7,500 to 8,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +1 items or better. CR 2 for 8,500 to 9,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +2 items or better. CR 3 for 9,500 to 10,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +3 items or better. CR 4 for 10,500 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
So for Tier 2 Dungeons with IL of 8,400 set (personally I would just change this to be 8,500 IL for simplicity): CR 1 for 8,400 to 9,400 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +2 items or better. CR 2 for 9,400 to 10,400 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +3 items or better. CR 3 for 10,400 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
So for Tier 3 Dungeons with IL of 11,000 set: CR 1 for 11,000 and up (if 500) or 11,000 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
The great thing about this is when a high IL player gets random queued with midrange players it will increase the chance of those players getting a drop that will be able to help them versus just more salvage junk. One player with an IL over 12,500 joining a group of four players with IL of 7,400 would put them in CR 2 in their dungeon and give fresh 70th level players at least a +2 drop. That is way more helpful to them gearing up.
2. 53rd level would work as intended due to level not being a limiter.
3. Remove the campaign completion requirement for the random queue, but keep the IL requirement.
4. Make it to where 70th level players get the Regular Dungeon bonus for their second random Epic Level dungeon. This will prevent the flood of super over powered players running leveling dungeons and ruining the experience for those leveling players. I personally hated dungeons during leveling because of the over powered players sprinting through them with no regard to the players that actually need the dungeons.
5. You could leave the campaign completion requirement for Trials as an incentive to complete them and as a recognition for doing so. Many will hate that but I think it is a good compromise.
6. I would leave some RAD in manual queuing. Maybe 400 or 500, I would prefer the full repeat amount but I'm willing to give a little on this.
All in all if implemented properly and with Challenge Rated Dungeons this would create challenges in all the dungeons for all IL players. Plus it would slow down players from five minute runs because even if they queued with low level, or no, equipment as soon as they speced back up the dungeon would change to their new specs. (I would lock the rewards at the lowest level speced for the group. To prevent abuse.)
Latest edit to change font color since I didn't know meanings for font colors.
@asterdahl: you forgot to list the daily bonus for random epic dungeons for some reason, sorry if it has been mentioned already.
It was mentioned in the original post, the post you're referring to was listing changes to the values from the original post. Epic dungeon's daily bonus remained unchanged from 5000, that is why it was not listed.
There will always be players that rage and whine when balancing happens, but the majority of people will gladly accept and adopt changes or policies that are honestly explained, even if the answer is that there is no answer for legal reasons or that you guys just don't know or care about it
Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature? I have tried to be clear about the goals of the random queue feature as well as why we have made certain adjustments or why we won't be making certain adjustments.
In some cases, there are those who will feel like an answer is unsatisfactory, or simply disagree with the premise, and simply ask a question again that has already been answered. Generally we try not to get too bogged down answering the same questions too many times, so keep that in mind.
You haven't answered why you guys can't address the dungeon rewards before doing the Random Queue changes tho. Everyone is getting annoyed by this change because the loot table is all sorts of messed up, the Orcus Wand dropping from Shores? FBI dropping elven gear? MSP with the rank 5s (not anymore I guess...) or a single peridot?
I'm one of the "lucky" people that never got a single piece of the right Relic gear from FBI for my main, I'm also one of the "lucky" ones that got literally nothing from a full MSP run (only seals at the end). Now I looked at the 500 IL armor and 3 pieces are worse than my master craft stuff, seriously? I honestly think you should address all the dungeon rewards before trying to change how to earn them.
Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature?
I really thought about writing this down, but i think i have to.
Last night i dreamed about all that stuff here. I really had to hold me back from crying. I failed. I cried cause i know i gonna lose some friends, friends i made over the years in this game. People come and go, but friends will stay. Until now. We're a small guild and build it up on our own. We don't have an alliance so it was really some hard work. We were proud what we made of it and ourselfs. We are friends. And now i will lose some of them due to this change.
Oh sure. This is an improvement. Now the only way to earn a.d is to run dungeons with level requirements that a huge number of players don't have. On top of that you have no control of who you run it with (forget about running it with a competent group of your guildies) and if you can't finish it you can't try again for half an hour. This is going to drastically reduce everyone's earnings. Unless of course you purchase more Zen..... but that couldn't be the real reason for this nonsense........ Could it??
At this point, it seems obvious that someone at Cryptic, probably above the Devs ordered them to do *something* to make the queues pop faster and get people to run the neglected content. These change are that *something* and whether they are enjoyable or make the game better is irrelevant. They aren't going to make tiers because that is going to allow people to continue skipping MSP and other content that isn't rewarding or doable as a PuG. They funnel over leveled chars into the leveling dungeons because it makes those queues pop. What happens after the queue fills and people get in is irrelevant, only that the quotas get filled.
When these changes were announced, they were set in stone. Only the rewards have been upped to try and silence complaints but the actual complaints go unaddressed.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Comments
> There's a lot of newer "catch-up" gear, and this is wonderful, but almost none of it is instantly available for new players.
>
> Players can still run epic content manually to obtain seals of the protector, which can in turn be used to obtain relic armor which is more than sufficient to progress through any of the currently available campaigns.
>
> My point was not that new players can instantly skip to 11k, but that there is actually a reason for them to manually run epic contents they are eligible for to work on advancing to 11k. The point of epic dungeons is not exclusively daily AD bonuses, and you do not need to be 11k to manually queue for something.
You do know you still need thousands of Voninblood for restauration for just a single piece? So you really want to advice fresh lvl 70 players to go to Bryn Shander or even SOMI?
And stripping AD and the bag of seals from private queues, giving them into random queues and calling this an "improvement" and "bonus rewards" for running random stuff - are you f.. kidding me? You screw us for running private, that's the only thing you do! You don't want us to get the bag of seals, AD as finishing bonus and stronghold shards in a single run, the only question is why? Why do you hate us?
They don't hate us. They just like our money more than they like us.
If one cannot do FBI or MSVA, one cannot join the random queues that has FBI or MSVA.
So, these folks including 4 of my 5 active toon will not join the bandwagon of the associated random queue even if they want to (I am not saying I want to).
Wanna keep us interested, and keep new players form quitting? How about devote some of this manpower to improve the old dungeons? Add some strategy, tweak the numbers. Cut the mobs between bosses in half, for starters, cause that's cannon fodder and not where the challenge lies.
Mod edited out rule violation.
> Random queues is something we've wanted to implement for a while to improve the play experience.
>
> I know that there are many players are thinking of things in terms of loss of efficiency right now. Many of you have gotten over the idea that you'll run Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity. It's not the case that everyone who runs Temple of the Spider passionately loves that dungeon though. Keep in mind that for every player who had accepted that fate, there's another who upon learning that running Temple of the Spider twice a day for eternity was needed to max out their AD, said "no thank you" and stopped playing.
>
> It's not the case that we are being cynical here, we honestly believe that running the same exact content over and over when there are lots more options is, well, not great. We can't blame those players who quit because of that.
We're not going to tell new players running TOS everyday for a lifetime cause we decide by ourself which dungeons we want to do.
Now we can't anymore if we want to be rewarded for it, now you steal us the right to run what we want to. This is more a real reason to quit the game than anything else and some in my guild said they would quit if this goes live. They don't want to be randomized and i don't want either, this is plain stupid..
We probably wouldn't be so much against this particular change and the Bonding one if it wasn't for the utterly awful rewards we get from end-game dungeons. Its like: "End-game adventurers need to be rewarded appropriately, I'm sure they'll appreciate getting a SINGLE Peridot!" ._.
I swear the more I think about ALL of this changes working together at once, the more it saddens me.
In some cases, there are those who will feel like an answer is unsatisfactory, or simply disagree with the premise, and simply ask a question again that has already been answered. Generally we try not to get too bogged down answering the same questions too many times, so keep that in mind.
> Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature?
Yes - why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues and force them to do random stuff they don't want to do to get the almost same reward?
There is no explanation for this and "improving stuff for new players" is only an excuse.
Will Public/Private queued dungeons give RAD?
> > @asterdahl said:
> > Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature?
>
> Yes - why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues and force them to do random stuff they don't want to do to get the almost same reward?
>
> There is no explanation for this and "improving stuff for new players" is only an excuse.
Answer: to force people to run a bigger variety of content.
Also to increase the frequency at which various pug queues pop.
> @protrctor42#1320 said:
> I have a very simple question:
> Will Public/Private queued dungeons give RAD?
It will, but only the small repeatable amount. Only the random queues will give the big thousands of ADs payouts
It is simply a design failure - just like the stronghold marauders, to name one other recent mistake (and we note that you have not done anything to correct the design failures there).
Now, this is coming not just from a player who has been here since the first day of open beta - I am also someone who has been involved with software development for the last 35 years - and believe me - I do understand the importance of keeping users happy.
My only question right now is which game I should play if Mod 12B results in a player exodus that basically makes the game non-viable.
@asterdahl
Can you update the information in the first page to the latest version of the change?
It is hard to find the new adjustment and people get confused with the old information.
Thanks.
EDIT: Update to add cyan colour.
The time for completion for the harder T2 and especially T3 dungeons is easily 10x more than T1.
It seems like you are designing for players who are willing to join queues regardless of length, whereas most people I know are very concerned with length of time and often join queues based on how much time they have available.
It feels like the random queue mechanic was designed to benefit a type of player that doesn't really exist, but hurts several types of players that I personally know (folks trying to reach 11k, and time-limited players)
> @asterdahl: you forgot to list the daily bonus for random epic dungeons for some reason, sorry if it has been mentioned already.
>
> It was mentioned in the original post, the post you're referring to was listing changes to the values from the original post. Epic dungeon's daily bonus remained unchanged from 5000, that is why it was not listed. There will always be players that rage and whine when balancing happens, but the majority of people will gladly accept and adopt changes or policies that are honestly explained, even if the answer is that there is no answer for legal reasons or that you guys just don't know or care about it
>
> Are there any specific questions you'd like answered in regards to this feature? I have tried to be clear about the goals of the random queue feature as well as why we have made certain adjustments or why we won't be making certain adjustments.
>
> In some cases, there are those who will feel like an answer is unsatisfactory, or simply disagree with the premise, and simply ask a question again that has already been answered. Generally we try not to get too bogged down answering the same questions too many times, so keep that in mind.
Yes, I have a specific question regarding the leaver penalty. In my opinion you have not explained the real benefit of this being implemented other than people won't just abandon instance till they get etos.
If that is the case, doesnt that show/tell you that your player base isn't looking to run other dungeons? Also, you made mention of people leaving until they get a 14k group, well is it your belief that a 14k toon is expected to carry a 8k or 9k toon thru CN? Why should I as 14k toon be penalized with an extremely long run due to low score teammates or even a fail group, or I get stuck with a 30 min penalty realizing the group wont succeed.
Please justify this penalty.
>
> The only difference here will be that you will not receive the 600 repeatable AD bonus you used to receive for running subsequent dungeons after your daily bonus is obtained. Depending on the number of alts you have and the amount of time you have to play, you may be earning rough AD faster in the new world, even with just the 2 aforementioned random queues. Certainly on days where you only have time to run 2 queues you will be earning more per day.
OK I missed a day or so of following and there are 5 pages since this quote so I apologize if this has been answered and I just haven't gotten there yet.
Based on your quote "you will not receive the repeatable 600 AD bonus" does that mean that we have to continue random queueing to get the repeat AD? So do we no longer get any AD for manual queueing or running any content in categories that we don't have the random queue option? Does manual queueing reward any AD at all other than salvage?
I can tell you from a player that has just recently started my first alt and just today started my 2nd alt one of the things that I hated the most during my low level playing was dungeons because I always had to deal with high geared players running through the dungeon and me just trying to keep up. I can absolutely in all seriousness say that I know Caverns of Karrundax backwards better than I do forwards because I always had to run back to the beginning afterwards to collect all 5 of the treasure chests and all 15 professions kits. I was even booted by more than 1 group because I was not able to keep up and I can't tell you how many times I was left for dead in the dungeon as they ran past stuff. High level players in low dungeons are an absolute bane of that content for leveling players.
Proper implementation of the random queue system would be closer to this.
1. Introduce it with Challenge Rated (CR) (Tiered) epic dungeon content based on average party IL. That way it makes it more worth while for higher IL players to play the lower content (Pugging).Maybe tier it for every 1,000 IL average per player. (Thought about every 500 IL but that wouldn't work.)
So for Tier 1 Dungeons with IL of 7,500 set:
CR 1 for 7,500 to 8,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +1 items or better.
CR 2 for 8,500 to 9,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +2 items or better.
CR 3 for 9,500 to 10,500 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +3 items or better.
CR 4 for 10,500 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
So for Tier 2 Dungeons with IL of 8,400 set (personally I would just change this to be 8,500 IL for simplicity):
CR 1 for 8,400 to 9,400 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +2 items or better.
CR 2 for 9,400 to 10,400 (if 1,000) IL per player to award +3 items or better.
CR 3 for 10,400 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
So for Tier 3 Dungeons with IL of 11,000 set:
CR 1 for 11,000 and up (if 500) or 11,000 and up (if 1,000) IL per player to award +4 items or better.
The great thing about this is when a high IL player gets random queued with midrange players it will increase the chance of those players getting a drop that will be able to help them versus just more salvage junk. One player with an IL over 12,500 joining a group of four players with IL of 7,400 would put them in CR 2 in their dungeon and give fresh 70th level players at least a +2 drop. That is way more helpful to them gearing up.
2. 53rd level would work as intended due to level not being a limiter.
3. Remove the campaign completion requirement for the random queue, but keep the IL requirement.
4. Make it to where 70th level players get the Regular Dungeon bonus for their second random Epic Level dungeon. This will prevent the flood of super over powered players running leveling dungeons and ruining the experience for those leveling players. I personally hated dungeons during leveling because of the over powered players sprinting through them with no regard to the players that actually need the dungeons.
5. You could leave the campaign completion requirement for Trials as an incentive to complete them and as a recognition for doing so. Many will hate that but I think it is a good compromise.
6. I would leave some RAD in manual queuing. Maybe 400 or 500, I would prefer the full repeat amount but I'm willing to give a little on this.
All in all if implemented properly and with Challenge Rated Dungeons this would create challenges in all the dungeons for all IL players. Plus it would slow down players from five minute runs because even if they queued with low level, or no, equipment as soon as they speced back up the dungeon would change to their new specs. (I would lock the rewards at the lowest level speced for the group. To prevent abuse.)
Latest edit to change font color since I didn't know meanings for font colors.
I'm one of the "lucky" people that never got a single piece of the right Relic gear from FBI for my main, I'm also one of the "lucky" ones that got literally nothing from a full MSP run (only seals at the end). Now I looked at the 500 IL armor and 3 pieces are worse than my master craft stuff, seriously? I honestly think you should address all the dungeon rewards before trying to change how to earn them.
Last night i dreamed about all that stuff here. I really had to hold me back from crying. I failed.
I cried cause i know i gonna lose some friends, friends i made over the years in this game. People come and go, but friends will stay. Until now.
We're a small guild and build it up on our own. We don't have an alliance so it was really some hard work. We were proud what we made of it and ourselfs. We are friends. And now i will lose some of them due to this change.
So yes, i have a specific question:
Who was it that had this idea?
When these changes were announced, they were set in stone. Only the rewards have been upped to try and silence complaints but the actual complaints go unaddressed.