test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Auction House Price Exploitation
akichid
Member Posts: 35 Arc User
I didn't find a similar thread so I started this one;
What's up with Neverwinter allowing (possibly encouraging) some players getting into the Auction House, buying up everything then re-listing those items for a much higher price?
I understand the concept of free market and capitalism, but to me this is right on the cusp of price gouging, maybe for some players this is no big deal, but for us majority of players this sucks!
Just recently a conversation with another player arrived at my character's fashion and I informed him my character was wearing a Waterdhavian Shirt I explained how I got mine and told them about the Auction House and how to search and find items and found the first 19 listings for Waterdhavian Shirts were all for sale from the same person and of course for the same price.
The same or similar thing is happening for almost every item listed in the Auction House.
Just as a rough estimate Neverwinter has tried about a dozen things to stop people from abusing the in game currency AD system and keep the prices of items down and here we have a perfect example of why some people thought they used the Gateway Leadership profession to grind out AD's and some felt they needed to load up on character slots and invoke multiple alts just to make AD's and nothing is being said or done about it.
Personally I won't purchase anything from someone who has multiple listings of the same items because I can pretty accurately suspect that they bought up lower priced items to re-list and sell at a higher price, they're running their own AD scam and very much a part of the out of control Auction House pricing problem that Neverwinter has repeatedly said they are trying to address.
To that end there have been changes in invoking at least twice, the ability to earn AD's in Gateway was removed and eventually Gateway itself was discontinued but the Auction House, unlike other AD earning issues Neverwinter has attempted to address, remains.
What's up with Neverwinter allowing (possibly encouraging) some players getting into the Auction House, buying up everything then re-listing those items for a much higher price?
I understand the concept of free market and capitalism, but to me this is right on the cusp of price gouging, maybe for some players this is no big deal, but for us majority of players this sucks!
Just recently a conversation with another player arrived at my character's fashion and I informed him my character was wearing a Waterdhavian Shirt I explained how I got mine and told them about the Auction House and how to search and find items and found the first 19 listings for Waterdhavian Shirts were all for sale from the same person and of course for the same price.
The same or similar thing is happening for almost every item listed in the Auction House.
Just as a rough estimate Neverwinter has tried about a dozen things to stop people from abusing the in game currency AD system and keep the prices of items down and here we have a perfect example of why some people thought they used the Gateway Leadership profession to grind out AD's and some felt they needed to load up on character slots and invoke multiple alts just to make AD's and nothing is being said or done about it.
Personally I won't purchase anything from someone who has multiple listings of the same items because I can pretty accurately suspect that they bought up lower priced items to re-list and sell at a higher price, they're running their own AD scam and very much a part of the out of control Auction House pricing problem that Neverwinter has repeatedly said they are trying to address.
To that end there have been changes in invoking at least twice, the ability to earn AD's in Gateway was removed and eventually Gateway itself was discontinued but the Auction House, unlike other AD earning issues Neverwinter has attempted to address, remains.
Tagged:
0
Comments
Do the same, dont buy blablabla, next question?
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Additionally the term for buying and reselling is 'flipping' and it is a good thing, generally, as it helps keeps prices steady. Also, advice for would be sellers, don't dump a slew of identical lots at the same time, it practically ensures you will get undercut.
That along with Neverwinter's repeated insistences that they have been taking steps to control the prices in the Auction House, would seem to indicate to me at least that while some people may not consider this to be "wrong" apparently some - including Neverwinter by their previous statements and steps seem to think it isn't necessarily 'right', or proper either.
I'm not opposed to anyone attempting to make a profit in the game or real life but profiteering is a different issue all together in my opinion, not everyone is in a position to pay exorbitantly high prices for things and with people abusing even common or necessary items in the Auction House, their attempt to arrive in a better position to play, compete and achieve is being controlled by a handful of people who are already there.
At least that's my opinion I've never been a fan of trying to address something I perceive as wrong, by doing the same kind of thing to someone else, but thank you for the suggestion.
As loathe as I am to do so, let's interject a little reality into the game world for a second...
If someone corners the market on a common commercial product and jacks up the price for that item it's usually considered price gouging and in a lot of places it's considered not only unethical - but illegal.
If a company buys up all of their competitors and by doing so are allowed to charge whatever they want for a product instead of a fair market value, that's considered monopolizing and in some cases (I would think the one I mentioned applies)... you guessed it, that's often considered not only unethical - but illegal.
I'm just saying that Neverwinter has repeatedly professed to be taking away various methods of obtaining AD's in the game and Gateway, partially in an attempt to control the out of control pricing issues in the Auction House... but this method has for the most part been largely ignored - I'd just like to see a little consideration to this issue if Neverwinter is actually interested in trying to do something to address the pricing issues in the Auction House.
Again, just a personal observation and opinion here.
But you bring up a good point about presumption, but I'd be willing to bet my presumptive speculation is fairly accurate as I've been watching how things have been transpiring in the Auction House for years now.
I've already mentioned I'm not opposed to anyone making a profit from their endeavors, but I also said I consider there to be a great difference between "profiting" or "flipping" (thank you for the edification on that point) and "profiteering" which was one of the things I at least thought Neverwinter was trying to address in their previous acts of taking away several AD earning modes.
Obviously flipping is a good thing for some people in the ability to keep items steadily higher than they would normally be listed for, but looking at this issue from the consumer end instead of the supplier end, the purpose of competition is to keep the prices of items lower and more affordable to more people, still profitable but with no get rich quick guarantee.
As for the issue of undercutting prices, if a person has the resources they can buy up lower priced items and "flip" them for a much higher price undercutting seems to rarely occur in the AH anymore as there are too few people attempting to control the prices of too many things that players desire and not everyone has the kinds of resources to compete in that area, and that is exactly what I've been talking about.
There is absolutely nothing on the AH you can't get yourself (with time or luck). People making money on this stuff are doing so because the stuff they are selling is out of season and you just can't get (anymore). Guess what, chances are it will come back in season or it will get hit with nerf bat (Mod 5 gear).
Ok, there are some things that you just can't get with out a lot of luck or a huge investment (legendary mounts i'm looking at you). But, generally speaking those items don't enhance you game play that much (poor RoI for some reason or another) and therefore if they are out of my price range, I just don't buy them.
By the way, buy low and sell high can be burnt sometime too. I do love those (resell) buyers because I can move my stuff faster.
As for the opinion that there are some things that can be purchased that "don't enhance game play", that would be presuming everyone's definition of game play is the same wouldn't it?
I personally know of several people for whom fashion and roll playing is an important part of playing the game - for them at least.
But your frustration in attempting to purchase a legendary mount is exactly what I'm talking about, except not everyone is interested in purchasing the same kinds of things... For you it is a legendary mount - for someone else it might be something as simple as a Waterdhavian shirt, both are equally valid and equally problematic IMO.
Resellers definitely exist, no argument, but anyone who farmed the Jubilee event this past season would have had Renown up to their eyeballs and very limited options for converting it into unbound items. As it happens, the shirt is the most wanted of the lot. I have not recently looked at what they're going for, but I'd assume barely a fraction of what you could get for them after the first time the event ran.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
And I seem to remember one of the reason Neverwinter said they are attempting to address the botting problem is to "regulate prices" and I even believe the Auction House (not just the Zen Exchange) was specifically mentioned a time or two, but that's not something I feel is all that important to dwell on, so I will concede the point.
Eventually a new or less experienced player might be able to become more income adequate, but for every new or less experienced player that progressed financially, the already established players are doing the same thing only on an exponentially larger scale so it is rare that anyone actually 'catches up' IMO.
Also and probably a minor point to many, as I already mentioned the 'resellers' as you call them seem to serve little purpose except to artificially inflate the prices of common goods.
I never said I "knew" people were buying low only to turn around to sell high, but I did say I suspected it because when one seller has offered four of one item for a price and there three of the same item at a lower price from other sellers - then the next time I visit the Auction House all of the lower priced items from different sellers are gone and the seller who previously had four items at a higher price, now have seven of the same items listed for the same price... I'd think that's a pretty good indication of what's probably happening.
Not conclusive proof admittedly but better than just a hunch IMO.
Unfortunately, I don't think that the gamemakers should control every aspect of the game. The auction house is one of those things where they should have limited control (at least on how people price things).
One of the things that I do have issues with, is the 0 posting charge. Before (at least with pre VIP discount) came into play you had to be careful about how much you posted something because if it didn't sell you just lost 10 percent, ouch....
One of the problems with the old system was the fact the people could undercut you by just a small margin and you would lose that 10 percent. I mean come on I get competition and in fact have no qualms about them doing that but it hurt...
One of the problems with the new system is that people now can drive up the price of something without any consequences. We can see this with your shirt example and my legendary mount example.
Both systems have there good and bad parts. Is there a happy medium maybe between the systems? Possibly, maybe have VIP only reduce it to 1 percent or some other number. Liked I said both systems have there merits and flaws.....
No posting fee is great if you have a really valuable item that may or may not find a buyer within five days. It's also great if you deal in large volumes of common items that at any given time might get undercut dramatically. You can even choose to pull your stuff and wait until the competition thins out again to sell.
But it means there are no consequences to inflating prices on items just because you can. It removes all the risk of blowing the price on anything up past the point where people are willing to buy, because you can just repost and repost forever until the buyers break down.
Impending mailbox changes might actually address this issue to some degree, as resellers will not be able to interact with the auction house if they have bought too many more items than they can hold.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It also messes with the formula of never buying anything that you wouldn't want or couldn't use if you got stuck with it, because you used to only be able to reasonably absorb a limited number of attempts at selling an item so that your profit wasn't completely eaten by posting fees.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Secondly I agree with the opinion that O% posting charge for VIP members is a mistake, but it is what it is and the game does need to make a profit someway so enticing people to purchase VIP for the no posting fee is one method I suppose, but not the best IMO.
Personally I think the undercut concept is a better one because as someone indicated earlier the first in line gets the better deal subsequent buyers will have the opportunity to still get a good deal in so far as it goes, but my primary irk are for the people who buy up lower priced items with no other purpose than to flip those items for a higher price, something tells me that most people wouldn't quietly stand for something like that in the real world so why should we stand for it here?
Someone else mentioned that there are some for whom a profit loss from trying to sell something at a too high of price is but a minor inconvenience to them, but it seems to be my experience that this does not apply to the majority of players and certainly I wouldn't think to new(ish) players.
If anyone appointed me Emperor for the day, I'd suggest a limit to how may of the same items a person can post in the Auction House, of course that's not going to keep anyone from buying up all the lower priced items - but they have to store them somewhere, at least until some of their previously listed items actually sell and that just might discourage some people from so much profiteering.
But as you say both systems have their favorable aspects and flaws, but my chief concern is what would appear to be the most favorable to the greatest number of players - and thus the game as a whole.
So I take it when speculators artificially drive up the cost of food, vehicle fuel, etc. from speculating the market in the real world, that isn't a problem for you - it seems to be a problem for just about everyone else, except the speculators and their investors that is.
What applies in real life also applies here, there is no special dispensation for basic economics logic IMO - even if it is a game. Sorry I just don't see it that way, if one person is limited to only being able to post 7 of the same items at a time, that doesn't mean no one else won't be posting that item and with more people offering an item for sale there is going to be competition which will drive prices down - at least to a point.
Absent any competition, allowing people to continue to buy up lower priced items and without limits repost them at a higher price anyone (with the means) can artificially inflate the cost of an item and not have to worry so much about someone else coming and undercutting their posted price. If anyone actually does post that item for a lower price, the profiteers just buys it themselves and re-list it for a higher price, which I'm pretty sure is exactly what I see happening and the purpose of this thread.
As I see it what limiting the number of items a person can post in the Auction House is to discourage anyone trying to corner the market on any item by buying them all up and attempting to re-list them for a higher price...
Limiting the number of items any one account can post is undoubtedly a bad idea for the person engaged in this kind of tactic - but good for everyone else IMO.
In case your bots or your former auctions or your exploiting things like that "resonator" let you sit on 10.000.000.000 AD, I am sure some own an inexhaustible ammount of AD.
What to do? You know the Zen input is at the bottom because mod 10 forced many player to not run or take part in FBI, Voninblood farming etc., noone spends a dime.
Less Zen = less keys to open thing = less things to offer. Some stuff could become rare...supply and demand.
Many player are Auctionhouse pros, they play this game for years and know it pretty good, they read patch notes and benefit from upcoming changes.
I suggest to just wait and avoid big investions, things will get in line again, don´t pay that price if you don´t feel so, simple as that.
Low demand= high supply = low prices. This will stop at some point, and those millions of wares will drop in price.
I won´t call it exploit, more the normal NWO-capitalism.
Just take part or not, build up your alts and max leadership (the more the better), pray till the fingers bleed and collect RP stones and Enchanted offer. Open that Coffer at 2xevents, save stuff sell stuff, read the patch notes on preview, get to your conclusions etc.
...or just play the game and gain AD and spend it, don´t care about maxed character etc. , them are not more than bits and bites and may be worthless in some day (depends on upcoming mods).
There are special events and changing lock boxes. When the lock box changes, the available drops change, bc most ppl open the newest box. If an event ends, the supply of drops from that event dwindles. This is no rocket science, but basic logic. Now economics for dummies. High supply and low demand= low prices. Low supply and high demand= high prices. If you know what is desirable, you buy cheap and sell for more later. That is no exploit, but playing intelligent.
If you did not want a certain item, when it was available at a low price or you did not play at this time, it is your problem. If no one would have bought this things at that time, they would no longer be available now. Do you really think, that ppl should sell it cheap out of the goodness of their hearts.
This reminds me of the ppl pming me, offering 1/2 of the ADs I ask for in AH and pestering me with 'I want..', 'you are to expensive' and 'why dont you'. Funny thing, no one asked me about a skin for 20 or 40k, but about items 500k+. This is a GAME there is nothing you NEED, just things you WANT. If someone else has it, pay the price or move along.
Regarding 'insider trading'. What most ppl think of as an unfair advantage is their own stupidity most of the times. A new Module is on preview, to test. Some ppl test it and see 'wow, I will need a boatload of XY'. They buy it and make a profit, good for them. It is unfair, if ppl play alpha test (restricted), hack preview or use insider information, to make a buck.
If it's possible to buy up an item at a lower price and flip it a much higher price it's because the previous price was too low relative to the demand for the item. If there isn't enough demand for that item then people flood the AH when they see the price spike and then the price inevitably drops because people realize that it's not actually worth as much as its being listed for.
But keep in mind this is also balanced by the need to speculate on items. For every success story, there's 10 failures. No one has a crystal ball, and it's just as easy to lose a lot of AD by speculating that something's going to be rare or worthwhile in the future, only to find out a patch, change or introduction of a new item has made it worthless.
But if live gives you citrons, make lemonade. Cockatrices come with bonding runestones. They sold for 15-40k. Guess who bought a stack?