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Cryptic, You have a problem! People leaving, and I think I know why. Content Poll.
silverkelt
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
You can bring up balance, bugs, progression problems, sh issues, pvp issues.. but lets face it, when players are playing content, a lot of things are overlooked.
In the last month, my friends list has gone from 10-15 actives, down to 1 this morning, with many people telling me they are leaving, or taking long breaks, tired of grinding out trinkets and salvage.. People are playing other games, simply due to Cryptic not caring about designing a true slate of new content for end game.
Upcoming module, isn't even a module its a CAMPAIGN rework.. thats ridiculous and they can shove it, for the first time since like mod 3, you will not see a poll from me asking about favorite modules, as simply this isnt one. What a waste of players time.
Myself personally have done edemo/nemo now between 1k times.. CN 300-400 .. pom/thrown another 500, for one +5 ring.. RNG stinks and you know it.. a few lucky players have run this or more and got what they wanted, but many of us are just tired of it to this level.. we are talking hundreds of hours of game-play.. for basically nothing.
I contend the following, right now the sheer lack of anything to do beyond grinding is ridiculous, thats all they gave us, is simple trinket grinding, there is no epic dungeons to do.. the hardest things are trivial, the power curve is so insane that they simply cant deliver any content to the player-base anymore.
Wake up.. players have been asking for more ACTUAL content since mod 6.. MYSELF, I dont want to see old dungeons anymore, I want new ones, NEW mechanics, new bosses, new loot.. Im talking about 5-6 actual dungeons/raids. AT one time.. slaughter us with new things, make us giddy . Put some zest to them.. if that requires more power curve fixes, fine by me.
In the last month, my friends list has gone from 10-15 actives, down to 1 this morning, with many people telling me they are leaving, or taking long breaks, tired of grinding out trinkets and salvage.. People are playing other games, simply due to Cryptic not caring about designing a true slate of new content for end game.
Upcoming module, isn't even a module its a CAMPAIGN rework.. thats ridiculous and they can shove it, for the first time since like mod 3, you will not see a poll from me asking about favorite modules, as simply this isnt one. What a waste of players time.
Myself personally have done edemo/nemo now between 1k times.. CN 300-400 .. pom/thrown another 500, for one +5 ring.. RNG stinks and you know it.. a few lucky players have run this or more and got what they wanted, but many of us are just tired of it to this level.. we are talking hundreds of hours of game-play.. for basically nothing.
I contend the following, right now the sheer lack of anything to do beyond grinding is ridiculous, thats all they gave us, is simple trinket grinding, there is no epic dungeons to do.. the hardest things are trivial, the power curve is so insane that they simply cant deliver any content to the player-base anymore.
Wake up.. players have been asking for more ACTUAL content since mod 6.. MYSELF, I dont want to see old dungeons anymore, I want new ones, NEW mechanics, new bosses, new loot.. Im talking about 5-6 actual dungeons/raids. AT one time.. slaughter us with new things, make us giddy . Put some zest to them.. if that requires more power curve fixes, fine by me.
Cryptic, You have a problem! People leaving, and I think I know why. Content Poll. 110 votes
Please stop the campaign madness, your solo game has quite enough, think of something new please.
16%
18 votes
Campaigns are 'allright but they shoudnt replace content, if you cant do both new dungeons/raids and campaigns, then just stop it with campaigns for a bit please.
26%
29 votes
I love campaigns, its all I do. No seriously, I dont run dungeons.
10%
11 votes
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
44%
49 votes
I just started, I didn't even know there was nothing to do yet.
2%
3 votes
0
Comments
if you know about this, it all make perfect sense suddenly. they are working on have the game as polished as possible for playstation launch (gazzilions of solo content, leveling dungeons .... etc)
remember many months before xbox release without meaningfull maintenance patch notes? thats the same
only thing is, PS2 will become unbalanced one day too, so they still should have prepared balance changes. better be pc beta testers, than be abandoned at all. but i wanna see progress and not dieing
Don't get me wrong.. I like that Mod 6 was revamped as a campaign (and awarded boons), but much like events (such as Siege, Winter Fest, etc.) they really need to be "extra" stuff to do.
What I would LOVE to see is something along the lines of a player riding along in the Stronghold map and find a cave. They think "cool, what is this?" and enter it. And get smooshed. A serious T2 or T2.5-level adventure. Not something to run errands for some NPC, not anything related to anything. Just.. something. A month-long adventure to reclaim not only the surface world of the SH, but the underneath as well. It could be drow and demons. It could be goblins and kobolds and gnolls. There could be a massive dragon down there somewhere. Or a tarrasque. THAT would be epic.
Rewards would include massive amounts of fodder for the SH. Tons of AD. Gear that's pushing 150 ilvl. GOOD gear. Not DF gear that strips out Power, ArPen, and crit.
This adventure should be long enough that there would be waypoints set along the way. No fairy HAMSTER trail.. exploration and problem-solving. It should NOT be time-gated. It should be different, depending on which path a party chooses (yes, it should require a party.. even for Sharpedge and those players). It should take the average ilvl of the party and level the content (and rewards) appropriately.
I would LOVE to build this adventure. But, you know, Foundry.
Speaking of which.. better tools, better rewards, fixed bugs, and updated resources. The Foundry alone could really make a difference in this game. (Yes, I know, "99% is HAMSTER, blah, blah, blah..."). "Infinite content".
I don't really see the purpose of making a "campaign of campaigns" sort of thing. I know that when we get new folks into the guild, we tell every single one that they need to start ToD as soon as they hit level 20-whatever-it-is, then the Underdark stuffs, then the Mantol-Derith Stuffs, then DR and Sharandar, etc. etc. etc.
The campaigns are NOT that hard to figure out, honestly. Continuously spoon-feeding players will result in the further "dumbing-down" of the overall populace. And that is not D&D. Intelligence, critical thinking, problem-solving... THAT is D&D.
I'm not gonna rage about how boring the grind has become (well, to be fair, ever since I hit level 60 (pre-mod 6), it took about a month for the grind to become, well, a grind). I'm grateful to have RP in profession tasks and RNG drops from Dragon Hoard and Wanderer's.
But in all honesty, at this point, I'm playing basically one character, to support the SH and my alts, because he's strong enough to tear through content so while it's still a grind, it doesn't take as long.
Anyway... yeah..
Whatever we can do to help you guys make this game better for us..
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Seems that the last 3 major content releases (I'm excluding Strongholds) - Elemental Evil, Underdark, and Maze Engine all were rushed out & released incomplete.
EE revamp into a campaign is a year late, where is the Temple of Elemental Evil epic level dungeon crawl?
Underdark released based around 3 skirmishes, Mantol-Derith seemed unfinished - what's up those stairs the guards are blocking, what's past the confines of the hub city? The Underdark is a big place, expand on the map that the Maze Engine brought - so many possibilities.
Parts of the Maze Engine campaign -
the Dragon's lair followed by the Lich encounter - why is this limited to a one time solo encounter? That sets up perfectly as a 5 man Epic Encounter on par with ELoL (nit picking, I would have chosen something other than a Red Dragon down there considering Lostmauth and Karrundax are both reds).
Menzoberranzan, pretty skyline, stupidly wasted.
Araj Tower - there's a Dungeon Right there, literally right infront of you, an 8 year old could come up with content to throw into a arch-mage's tower.
Gauntlgrym - back to back mods have centered on this place in pieces - there are a hole lot of pieces, Demons/Drow/Illithids/Elemental Cultists/Maegera/Orcs/Goblins/Vampires/Druegar/Whatever - how hard can it be to piece all the bits and pieces of GG together and make a huge/sprawling/epic Dungeon crawl?
The Out of the Abyss storyline produced by WotC centered around kicking 8 demons back into the Abyss... Demogorgon, Orcus, Baphomet (as a solo encounter in the Maze Engine campaign if I'm not mistaken... seems like a total waste of an iconic DnD villian), there are 5 more Demons, should be at least 5 more epic level encounters. Fraz-Urb’luu, Graz’zt, Juiblex, Yeenoghu, Zuggtmoy – where are they? The Abyss itself (and all of it's nasty inhabitants) - send us there.
In a twisted kind of way, removing the majority of dungeons over a year ago was a smart move - so many people clamoring for them to come back has taken away from the utter lack of what has actually been added.
Those dungeons should have never been removed in the 1st place.
When the level cap was raised, NEW dungeons should have been ready to roll out with it.
EE should have had 5 dungeons - Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, and the grand daddy of them all - The Temple of Elemental Evil.
Underdark & the Maze Engine should have been released as the same campaign/module (in chunks if need be - similar to the ToD/RoT campaign) and based around kicking 8 demon lords back to the Abyss - 8 demon lords = 8 dungeons.
I'm all over the place in this rant, but I think I'm getting my point across. This game is oozing potential, it's just sad that it is seemingly so neglected.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The original.
Scroll to the bottom...
4 Nodes laid out in front of you - render and populate each appropriately, 4 elemental skirmishes/dungeons/encounters done
4 level ToEE EPIC crawl - render and populate appropriately, huge Dungeon to run through, if you don't want to spend a couple hours in it, don't run it.
1: stop doing campaigns
2: stop doing campaigns
3: do only campaigns
4: cryptic sucks at running this game
5: i have no opinion
For me... I think Cryptic has gotten a lot better at the campaign features. The Maze Engine is a HUGE improvement in terms of gameplay experience. It required that you do time-bound content, but it not such that it took hours a day to run do it. It provided a story and climactic ending along with a useful ongoing replays with decent rewards and achievements.
I hear what the OP is saying - he personally prefers non-solo content clearly and therefore feels Cryptic is failing miserably because the 7 easy dungeons, 9 Epic (including 4 master) dungeons, 4 end-game Skirmishes, eDemo, Tiamat and 3 types of PvP, along with the opportunity to do any number of things with friends in SH or elsewhere just doesn't provide enough for him to do multiplayer stuff. Personally, I don't see how he has enough time in the day to exaust all the multiplayer options and still feel like he didn't do enough stuff... but I don't judge!
I would love to see the rest of the old DDs come back, even if they're just normal level. I enjoyed them and would like to enjoy them again. I would also never say no to adding new and different multiplayer content items. That said - I disagree with the basic premise that Cryptic needs to choose between solo and multiplayer content. I see no reason why they shouldn't work on improving the UX for both the solo and multiplayer experience.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
And honestly, I'd 100% wish they'd just do away with the idea of calling everything a "module". I'd rather they just incrementally release content updates as they're finished and ready to go live. I know they must get a boost from announcing a new module, but I think the expectations of what people think a new "module" or "expansion" means vary so greatly, that people get upset when announced content doesn't live up to these expectations.
For example, why wait 4 months to release new dungeons? Why not release one new dungeon a month for 4 months?
Why wait for a big module release to launch a new class? Why not make just the simple fact of adding a new class a big deal?
Things like that. In my opinion, smaller and more frequent updates are better than bigger and less frequent...especially when those bigger updates tend to introduce more bugs and headaches than they sometimes fix.
But to that end, I've actually really enjoyed the last few content updates. They been adding a lot of bug fixes, quality of life improvements and new content without the fanfare or expectations of a new module.
While I'm digging the QoL improvements and whatnot, tossing in some new content would be terrific.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Ive run tiamat 1k times.
Ive run edemo 1k times
Ive run elol like 5k times
Ive run all the skirms, all the t2s, ive tried speed running alot of stuff, Ive done the single class tia runs (not all but most) , frankly creating artificial challenge isnt my thing.. that is others. I just enjoy running new content, designed to force teamwork , so we have to run together.
HECK CN was just released and im up to the hundreds on that.
It takes you 15 mins to clear cn.. edemo could be like 4 mins if they didnt gate the first segment.
and its not just about the time involved.. its about the challenge, the most fun raid I ever did was the orginal lvl 60 turtle in lotro.. at that level.. you had to pre plan your tank swapping, your rezzes , your heals, where to stand and everything.. it only took 15 mins, but if you had crappy tanks and crappy heals.. you would never beat it (at level). Im not asking for 3 hour dungeon crawls, Im asking for some challenge and reward. There is simply none of that.. the best items are extreme rng items with a 1% chance, that you most likely never will earn, even in thousands of runs.
By making things so easy, they remove the reward.
IM TIRED of running the same items. That is my complaint and the complaint of many.. SURE you can re-run those same items thousands of times.. ive already beaten everything hundreds and hundreds of times.. its boring.
There is no challenge once you learn all the mechanics , get some decent gear , your done and they just make the same stuff and re-release the same items.
We have gotten one new item (edemo) and 1 reworked CN.. for the PAST YEAR.. Dont come on here and try to defend that.. its simply ludicrous.
(those two stupid skirms dont even count as content, I wont go on how boring they are, total dev fail there)
I gave enough options.. do or dont vote. Everyone complains about options.. its not like you can sit there and make 20 of them up.. you either like them, but would like more content, dont like them and would like more content, feel like the company is failing us or admit that is basically all you do. That is enough of a spread.
For me, the issue is a number of things together, the lack of challenging content, the lack of new content, the lack of distinct rewards for completing content. What I mean by distinct rewards, is items that are unique to a particular piece of content, that are pretty much guaranteed BiS and can only be obtained through that content. The items in question need to be unbound, so that they can be traded, so there is a reason to continue farming the content in question even after you have completed gearing your own character. At the moment, there isn't a reason outside of fun to run anything except the dungeon that can be completed the fastest.
As to all of those of you who say that I should run the content just for fun, or without my gear if I want a challenge, or without boons, or on an alt, etc, etc. I have done all of that and more. I have probably got more completions on each and every dungeon, than anyone else playing this game, the only exception is literally people who are unemployed and farm dungeons instead of having a job. At the end of the day, I need something new to do.
The reward nerfs have gotten so out of hand, it's routine now.
And they just keep coming. Now skill nodes got stripped away from us, so there is no reason to adventure off the beaten path and look around.
I've not seen anything but a +1 or +2 ring in over a month and I'm not the only person that has noticed!
What, the 0000001% chance for +5 was too high!?
The rings I'm wearing now, I got in the first 2 weeks!
WoD and IWD UD HE got nerfed and ninja nerfed.
CN is such HAMSTER now, it's not even worth it. I'm pretty sure that got ninja-nerfed. Not been back since it got re-released.
T1 rewards got 'fixed.'
SH HEs suck now too. You might get a rank5 if you're lucky.
Rix quests, dungeon delves, Skirmish hour (that worked with CTA events, now CTA suck),
Lord Protector's weeklies, Foundry, old(fun) dungeons. on and on and on.
EDIT: Add VIP nerf to the list.
My point is the list of things we get taken away from us doesn't come close to being replaced with usefulness content or something resembling fun.
I'm not dropping a single piece of AD into those quartermaster enchants because I'm extraordinarily confident they will be nerfed into the GD ground like they did for the Dragon Horde enchant! It's Cryptic's MO.
Read that and tell me that a thousand things couldve happened doing a Temple raid against zuggtmoy.
I simply do not understand, they dont even have to really think up of story or ideals.. its already written! They just have to concieve how to implement it.
Seriously, we want some epic fights..
Although, with the new queue system, it might not be so bad.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The reality is, I'm not sure there's anything Cryptic can do to meet your needs. This game falls squarely in the prime casual play space, for those who play 30 to 90 minutes a day. Which is what it is.
Heck, even when I was a hardcore raider in WoW, I only really played 10-15 hours a week. Of course, all those hours were practically spend hardcore raiding content. But even then, there wasn't enough "real" content in WoW to keep my attention for any longer that what it took to raid.
But is that the direction people want to see? Hard progression raid style content? I personally wouldn't mind seeing that.
In fact, I think the CN rework would've been perfect for an Icecrown style of raiding, which was personally some of my favorite times from WoW.
They could have (or still could) redesign the dungeon into 4 wings, with the idea that each wing would take 60-90 minutes to clear. Your average guild could tackle one or two wings a night, and culminate in the final wing with the final boss. And do the weekly resets for people. I think it worked well.
Spoiler alert: At the end of the Maze Engine campaign, there were allusions to more elemental content. Maybe the Temple of Elemental Evil could be a raid style dungeon. One wing for each element with 2-3 bosses, then a final boss that unlocks at the center when each wing is completed. Make it a weekly loot lock out. So you can do it as many times as you want, but you only get "the good loot" dropped from each boss once a week. That way you can have fun helping other people grind through it, but Cryptic has better control over how fast people gear up...and since it's basically one loot drop a week per boss for people, you can potentially make the loot drops more valuable or interesting.
And you can even do what Blizzard did with Icecrown Citadel...slowly roll out each wing over the course of a week or two each, and then you have a 6-8 weeks of content flowing into the game.
This one at the start , was quite fun and very challenging, so I dont get the causual argument.. you remember doing throne and lair of the mad dragon and spell plauge with a mix of blues/purples ? they were tough honestly.. very tough. Even after I got my hp armor, my hv, my aow, my royal guard, my ad for my sw, I turned around and got all the grim armors, then all the profound armors, then later all the black ice armors, even all the burning armors .. before I stopped pvping in the middle of mod 6.
I think if they made pvp a little more fun again by fixing some stuff and putting rewards back into it, maybe I wouldnt be so morose. but when I see people leave due to how the game is being implemented, frustrates me.
IDK zerg, but I do know, releasing 1.. !! 1 item every 3-4 months, is not enough for most of us. So yes.. it has to be more then that.
I'm not sure that's really something you can ever really get rid of in any game, but these are especially powerful forces in the NWO playerbase. We already complain all the time about how the reward/time ratio is way too low, and it only takes a matter of days before any content vector deemed sub-optimal (old Throne, current PoM, for example) is basically a dead zone. A system which rewards you once a week is a system which tells players to only play it once a week.
The other day, out of the blue, I tried running a master of the hunt.. just for fun! while I was farming siege.. I wated 25 mins.. before I gave up.. no reward in it so no oen is running it.
Edemo needs to be fixed, they were way to shortsighted there..
What made me sad about the new queue system is that they screwed up the edemo queues so badly that I stopped running it entirely. I used to run 6 or 7 of them in a row sometimes just for the salvage, because for a time it was a faster, more reliable AD source than dungeons. I haven't done a single e-demo since the new queue system popped up, not even after they fixed the queue issues. I almost never run CN, since it's too hard for someone not in a powerful guild to get a party (especially a tank) that can handle it. I have well-built 3k characters, but there's not a lot of point if your entire team isn't at the same level. I've even thrown an epic defender into the mix at orcus and the party still couldn't handle it. Even did it in a party with lots of ranged attacks, and they still couldn't handle it. The rewards aren't that big of a deal, although since I'd like to get the Orcus set at some point I'd sort of like to get in some regular, smooth runs just to change up my routine a bit and maybe get lucky and get the items to drop instead of having to buy them. For much the same reasons I almost never run Tiamat. Too much trouble for far too little reward. Most of my AD these days comes from VIP + invoking + throne + cloak tower. I've run maybe a handful of (epic) dungeons since mod 9 hit, and I used to do a handful of dungeons every day.