I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
DC/GF melt combo everybody knows so well - how hard would it be to make a boss flag as damage immune if condition a, b, c, are met? If damage immune isn't your thing, how about damage reflect to source if condition a, b, c are met? How about damage transfer to minions?
If that is too extreme - something as simple as the Illithid encounter in CN - if you fall onto the ceiling spikes - why isn't that insta kill - as far as I know - it is in every other dungeon in game? Too transparent/predictable - have the spike rotate.
Time to face melt the Beholder in CN? Have the Beholder beable to cast ITF/AS from it's eyestalks - treat players the way we are treating bosses.
DnD is a literal treasure trove of material to pull from in terms of, hey how can I make this difficult on the players - the resources that are there and being wasted is maddening
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
its just not the buffs, (and probably itf needs a cap.. as its much more powerful then say power sharing) , its also things like lifesteal crit severity, not even sure why that is in the game.
REGARDLESS of power.. you could have a full team of pure BIS in other games.. other games ALSO made mechanics part of the equation, this game has lowered and lowered and lowered the amount of needed mechanical ablity to finish content, till you see what we have today.
Balance shouldnt just about nerfing things, they could re adjust the game, requiring you to actualy move to certain spots, do certain things, interact with certain classes (or class types) or its insta fail.
This game falls squarely in the prime casual play space, for those who play 30 to 90 minutes a day. Which is what it is.
And that's, I think, the biggest gripe people have with this game. By having the official DnD license you set certain expectations to your audience. And the old-school DnD players who came here are not looking for a quick and easy lair. They want stories, areas to explore.. you know... DnD. Either alone or with a group.
From the start, this game has been too small, too quick and too easy. They never saw the bigger picture. I don't really like DDO much, but at least they go that part right: Large maps, dangerous mobs and actual risks by getting yourself killed. You don't have to create an ESO-like game, but presenting an established hardcore gaming community primarily known for doing 5-10h gaming sessions with the most casual MMO in existence is a clear case of not understanding what you have and how to use it for an endgame.
This game falls squarely in the prime casual play space, for those who play 30 to 90 minutes a day. Which is what it is.
And that's, I think, the biggest gripe people have with this game. By having the official DnD license you set certain expectations to your audience. And the old-school DnD players who came here are not looking for a quick and easy lair. They want stories, areas to explore.. you know... DnD. Either alone or with a group.
From the start, this game has been too small, too quick and too easy. They never saw the bigger picture. I don't really like DDO much, but at least they go that part right: Large maps, dangerous mobs and actual risks by getting yourself killed. You don't have to create an ESO-like game, but presenting an established hardcore gaming community primarily known for doing 5-10h gaming sessions with the most casual MMO in existence is a clear case of not understanding what you have and how to use it for an endgame.
Agree with that, compared to DDO it heavily lacks on versaitality.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Ya, the whole "Burn the Boss" mechanic needs to be replaced. VT had a nice mechanic for lower IL players until the SW came and made it trivial with TT and the AD and MC sets.
Don't need a SW. With all the buffs you are able to ignore a dozen of her minions.
I love campaigns, its all I do. No seriously, I dont run dungeons.
[x] I like campaigns. I rarely run dungeons.
At least I think this point fits best with me. No SH, no PvP, no epic dungeons, just some fast leveling dungeon visits for AD. Purple gear and R8 is about my final gear, anything above is just a "oh look, it can even further". I don't care for loot, as long as there is a path to get what I deem fitting to a character's theme using Zen or trade bars or AD.
I enjoyed the last improvements. - Dwarven King introduces some famous characters. - Maze Engine is a nice story driven adventure, more famous characters. - Portobello's was funny and added variety. - Rework of Elemental Evil: I'm just now revisiting it, will take some time. If I was asked, why I prefer the EE campaign over the EE 'pick your quests' mode, hmmm. I think, a lot of MMO design should hide the fact, that time spend IS grinding, XP and kill mobs for dice on loot. If that is not hidden away in something interesting or neat, I pretty fast feel like a keyboard typing and dicing robot, something I don't want in phantasy entertainment.
My wishlist: - Classes do move differently, but share the same voice action sound files, and then there is so many voiced text already. A dwarf should "argh uhh brrr haarrr" differently from a human or tiefling. The companions have more variety in their voicings. - Keep making funny events sometimes. It's a relief from all the quests to eliminate evil. - Some simple fashion sometimes, like those for Portobello's. And more single color dyes. - Foundry? My purple characters are looking forward to adventure interesting stories.
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited May 2016
I won't vote in the poll, because my vote type is not listed. No, I am not a raging fan boy.
I play online games to fill time. Sometimes it is fun. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes, I have memorable experiences with fellow gamers. Sometimes, the time online is completely forgettable, similar to every other day. Neverwinter is no different than any other game out there. The Developers cannot create content quickly enough so that I never become bored. The Law of Diminishing Return is always in effect. Because I realize this about myself, I take the enjoyment I get out of the game minimally in comparison to the rest of life. I don't care if the content is solo, multiplayer, PvP, PvE, dungeons, campaigns, whatever....
I have had a love/hate relationship for Neverwinter for over 3 years, but in the end, its just a game, and one of the many ways I find enjoyment. When I am bored, I log off and go do something else. I will not try to force the developers to create a single output for my enjoyment, and I have no sympathy for those that depend on others to feel complete/empowered/fulfilled by playing a game.
Are there things that the Devs can do to make the game more enjoyable for all the players? Yes, indeed. Variously stated throughout several forum posts and threads are these generic suggestions:
1) New Content stimulates the Long-Term Playerbase with Excitement. So, New Content in all its forms, not one form, is always good.
2) Perfecting Content reduces aggravation with game play. Debugging and code writing with adequate testing prevents backlash from the playerbase.
3) Variable Content provides a sense of newness, even when not. The human spirit wants to be surprised. Devs, surprise us!
4) Free Content invokes the exploration. It provides the player a sense that he is at liberty to play the game in many different ways. More restrictions on game play and economy only reduce the wide-eyed vision of the players to plan their own adventures, and limits a long-term vision of glory, fun, and excitement. Free the Trade Bars! Free the Auction House! Free the Bound Companions, Mounts, Gear Drops!
5) Challenging Content sets our sights high! Ignore us when we complain its too hard. Make some things so hard, we will scratch and claw to get it done. But, then....reward us handsomely for our labors!
6) Just Content keeps the ratio of challenge/reward in sight. It prevents complaints of too much too soon, and puts the high end reward behind high challenges. Its like climbing a mountain. The bottom slopes are still up, but to summit, you really need to work hard. See #5 above.
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited May 2016
Please stop the campaign madness, your solo game has quite enough, think of something new please.
WHY i have to do tiamat to get the last two boons and you dont give the option to buy linus from zen market? ICEWIND-sharandar-dread ring in our days are so fast and you have them in zen market.................................
Ya, the whole "Burn the Boss" mechanic needs to be replaced. VT had a nice mechanic for lower IL players until the SW came and made it trivial with TT and the AD and MC sets.
my 2k gwf with sh boons could solo valindra if wasnt the hand without companion. YOU can see it anytime you can just stand to the corner to free me from the hand.
WHY i have to do tiamat to get the last two boons and you dont give the option to buy linus from zen market? ICEWIND-sharandar-dread ring in our days are so fast and you have them in zen market.................................
You don't have to do Tiamat. Just keep filling the wagon in camp.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
0
bluebubbl3sMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
im a little late to this party. i would like to see more dungeons. even if they brought back the old ones and scaled them to make them harder. Variety is the spice of life so they say.
but give us something else please... i spend much of my time standing around not wanting to do maze engine, even if it is just two stupidly easy fights that i have to run 10 minutes up a hill to get to... I am bored out of my wits, throne and pom are even more boring, and CN was a challenge for about 5 minutes, plus its a crappy version of its former glory
i dont even care about rewards, i just want something that is a little fun to do that isnt something that i have now run a gazillion times.
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
Dungeons and Dragons? No. Its Campaigns and Dragons!
With the new campaign in alliance patch they made 3 campaigns and only 1 dungeons in current module. The numbers should be reversed!
I hope they will really put back old dungeons next time!
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
Campaigns are 'allright but they shoudnt replace content, if you cant do both new dungeons/raids and campaigns, then just stop it with campaigns for a bit please.
More dungeons and epic content, end game material that does not involve new campaigns, that would be really nice.
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
Voted for dungeons and epic content. That's really number 1. Balance is better than I ever remember it now, that's nice (paladins will probably need more of a rework though and it would be really nice if more of the feat trees were useful, but it's pretty good in PVE) I never think "ah damn we have one of that class in the party, I just wanted 4 more CW :P", every class is useful. There's the current problem with refining items which is making it very hard for newer players to catch up in terms of power, I have felt since mod 5 that the whole artifact equipment thing was a flat-out grind, and now definitely since gear enchantments can go to rank 12, that so much focus on adding more and more items to your items to power up your items takes away from the mystique of an RPG, you're rarely ever getting some amazing drop that completed your awesome set, you're doing too much of the same just to get refining items and there are fewer high points like getting a great drop. I think that it pays to understand psychology, it's extremely boring to increase your power little by little all the time, and very exciting to get some meaningful drop now and then after your hard work. I miss mod 2 style where artifacts and enchantments were of reasonable significance.
Which brings us to dungeons. We have more dragons than we could have ever wanted, but dungeons are lacking. It took me about 2 weeks to get bored of CN. I was already bored of the other dungeons. How many times am I going to have to do Tiamat over and over? At least with Demogoron there's a chance for some really great drops in the rings after a hard fight. That was a good move. Props. But more please. We need new dungeons and more dungeon variety, more reasons to do them at all, better rewards. As I've said in other posts, it will also pay to understand what makes a game like Dungeons And Dragons fun. This isn't D&D, but perhaps it should be more like it. A dungeon is a journey with meaningful rewards, great gear, high difficulty, you must get to know your team, you must work together well. I've seen some good steps forward with some nerfs that made it harder but the rest is still lacking Or forget Dungeons And Dragons, how about World Of Warcraft. What makes that good and what made mod 2 Neverwinter good? Why weren't people complaining about the experience as much then? What made Diablo 2 fun? Learn from the successes of other games and do what they do in the unique Neverwinter style.
This ties heavily into the grind, in my view the grind problem and the dungeon/content problem are one and the same, if you have more exciting content to get gear and items from random drops, you feel less grind. We have too few pieces of gear, too little variety there. It's not fun to grab one of a few viable sets that you bought with some currency for completing something a ton of times and then just grind to get your refining stuff up, it's fun to have the option to create your own character your own way. Remember when there used to be 3 different kinds of sets from tier 2 dungeons, a set from MC, a set from VT, the black ice set, and they all did something different? They all had some exciting set bonus? Now what do we have? Well you can maybe fine-tune the gear stats by grinding black ice to made it elemental one of two ways. Ugh. I do like that there are different weapon sets and different, though few viable belt/cloak/artifact sets for any particular class, but we need more and it should work with a particular build. Final example (I'm just going off of games I know), what makes Magic The Gathering such a good game? So many possibilities! So much possible experimentation with your deck, so many pieces that can have synergy. I guess this ties into classes too because it's too cookie-cutter, and it doesn't make it better that you could technically have a lot of options because it makes little sense to use most of them and just be strictly worse in any situation
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
Andy, I know your busy, but please pass this on when you get a second, I think you can safely say that most players are a little burnt out on the campaigns and we request a more specific direction of epic content instead.
I understand that its too late to pull back on the next release, but Im hoping this feedback makes it way around.
We've got a new (old) major problem now: the ZAX is capped again and backlogs are building and the economy is going to spiral back into the Leadership AD hellhole they were allegedly trying to rescue us from. A lot of people will be driven away when it becomes effectively impossible to renew their VIP duration without paying cash themselves, or get wards etc.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I just want dungeons, raids, epic content, you have failed miserable yere.. if you want to do whatever else, great, but here you are failing the players.
Or they couldve just put VIP as a cash only purchase and left coalwards in the game.
That wouldve solved my issue, small transactions for speedier progression. That is how most other mmos do it.
Basically we are back to the point that there is nothing to spend real money on since they ripped VIP down to nubs and stubs.
Non paying customers wouldve benefited as well, with reduced enchantment prices (they are now 30-40% higher then before removal.
Company wouldve benefited by having pure cash.
However, having progression doesnt mean much, if the game is 80% campaigns =P .. you can beat those in green gear for goodness sake.
Comments
If that is too extreme - something as simple as the Illithid encounter in CN - if you fall onto the ceiling spikes - why isn't that insta kill - as far as I know - it is in every other dungeon in game? Too transparent/predictable - have the spike rotate.
Time to face melt the Beholder in CN? Have the Beholder beable to cast ITF/AS from it's eyestalks - treat players the way we are treating bosses.
DnD is a literal treasure trove of material to pull from in terms of, hey how can I make this difficult on the players - the resources that are there and being wasted is maddening
REGARDLESS of power.. you could have a full team of pure BIS in other games.. other games ALSO made mechanics part of the equation, this game has lowered and lowered and lowered the amount of needed mechanical ablity to finish content, till you see what we have today.
Balance shouldnt just about nerfing things, they could re adjust the game, requiring you to actualy move to certain spots, do certain things, interact with certain classes (or class types) or its insta fail.
Too many buffs, is the real problem now.
At least I think this point fits best with me.
No SH, no PvP, no epic dungeons, just some fast leveling dungeon visits for AD. Purple gear and R8 is about my final gear, anything above is just a "oh look, it can even further".
I don't care for loot, as long as there is a path to get what I deem fitting to a character's theme using Zen or trade bars or AD.
I enjoyed the last improvements.
- Dwarven King introduces some famous characters.
- Maze Engine is a nice story driven adventure, more famous characters.
- Portobello's was funny and added variety.
- Rework of Elemental Evil: I'm just now revisiting it, will take some time. If I was asked, why I prefer the EE campaign over the EE 'pick your quests' mode, hmmm. I think, a lot of MMO design should hide the fact, that time spend IS grinding, XP and kill mobs for dice on loot. If that is not hidden away in something interesting or neat, I pretty fast feel like a keyboard typing and dicing robot, something I don't want in phantasy entertainment.
My wishlist:
- Classes do move differently, but share the same voice action sound files, and then there is so many voiced text already. A dwarf should "argh uhh brrr haarrr" differently from a human or tiefling. The companions have more variety in their voicings.
- Keep making funny events sometimes. It's a relief from all the quests to eliminate evil.
- Some simple fashion sometimes, like those for Portobello's. And more single color dyes.
- Foundry? My purple characters are looking forward to adventure interesting stories.
I play online games to fill time. Sometimes it is fun. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes, I have memorable experiences with fellow gamers. Sometimes, the time online is completely forgettable, similar to every other day. Neverwinter is no different than any other game out there. The Developers cannot create content quickly enough so that I never become bored. The Law of Diminishing Return is always in effect. Because I realize this about myself, I take the enjoyment I get out of the game minimally in comparison to the rest of life. I don't care if the content is solo, multiplayer, PvP, PvE, dungeons, campaigns, whatever....
I have had a love/hate relationship for Neverwinter for over 3 years, but in the end, its just a game, and one of the many ways I find enjoyment. When I am bored, I log off and go do something else. I will not try to force the developers to create a single output for my enjoyment, and I have no sympathy for those that depend on others to feel complete/empowered/fulfilled by playing a game.
Are there things that the Devs can do to make the game more enjoyable for all the players? Yes, indeed. Variously stated throughout several forum posts and threads are these generic suggestions:
1) New Content stimulates the Long-Term Playerbase with Excitement. So, New Content in all its forms, not one form, is always good.
2) Perfecting Content reduces aggravation with game play. Debugging and code writing with adequate testing prevents backlash from the playerbase.
3) Variable Content provides a sense of newness, even when not. The human spirit wants to be surprised. Devs, surprise us!
4) Free Content invokes the exploration. It provides the player a sense that he is at liberty to play the game in many different ways. More restrictions on game play and economy only reduce the wide-eyed vision of the players to plan their own adventures, and limits a long-term vision of glory, fun, and excitement. Free the Trade Bars! Free the Auction House! Free the Bound Companions, Mounts, Gear Drops!
5) Challenging Content sets our sights high! Ignore us when we complain its too hard. Make some things so hard, we will scratch and claw to get it done. But, then....reward us handsomely for our labors!
6) Just Content keeps the ratio of challenge/reward in sight. It prevents complaints of too much too soon, and puts the high end reward behind high challenges. Its like climbing a mountain. The bottom slopes are still up, but to summit, you really need to work hard. See #5 above.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
but give us something else please... i spend much of my time standing around not wanting to do maze engine, even if it is just two stupidly easy fights that i have to run 10 minutes up a hill to get to... I am bored out of my wits, throne and pom are even more boring, and CN was a challenge for about 5 minutes, plus its a crappy version of its former glory
i dont even care about rewards, i just want something that is a little fun to do that isnt something that i have now run a gazillion times.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
No. Its Campaigns and Dragons!
With the new campaign in alliance patch they made 3 campaigns and only 1 dungeons in current module. The numbers should be reversed!
I hope they will really put back old dungeons next time!
Which brings us to dungeons. We have more dragons than we could have ever wanted, but dungeons are lacking. It took me about 2 weeks to get bored of CN. I was already bored of the other dungeons. How many times am I going to have to do Tiamat over and over? At least with Demogoron there's a chance for some really great drops in the rings after a hard fight. That was a good move. Props. But more please. We need new dungeons and more dungeon variety, more reasons to do them at all, better rewards. As I've said in other posts, it will also pay to understand what makes a game like Dungeons And Dragons fun. This isn't D&D, but perhaps it should be more like it. A dungeon is a journey with meaningful rewards, great gear, high difficulty, you must get to know your team, you must work together well. I've seen some good steps forward with some nerfs that made it harder but the rest is still lacking Or forget Dungeons And Dragons, how about World Of Warcraft. What makes that good and what made mod 2 Neverwinter good? Why weren't people complaining about the experience as much then? What made Diablo 2 fun? Learn from the successes of other games and do what they do in the unique Neverwinter style.
This ties heavily into the grind, in my view the grind problem and the dungeon/content problem are one and the same, if you have more exciting content to get gear and items from random drops, you feel less grind. We have too few pieces of gear, too little variety there. It's not fun to grab one of a few viable sets that you bought with some currency for completing something a ton of times and then just grind to get your refining stuff up, it's fun to have the option to create your own character your own way. Remember when there used to be 3 different kinds of sets from tier 2 dungeons, a set from MC, a set from VT, the black ice set, and they all did something different? They all had some exciting set bonus? Now what do we have? Well you can maybe fine-tune the gear stats by grinding black ice to made it elemental one of two ways. Ugh. I do like that there are different weapon sets and different, though few viable belt/cloak/artifact sets for any particular class, but we need more and it should work with a particular build. Final example (I'm just going off of games I know), what makes Magic The Gathering such a good game? So many possibilities! So much possible experimentation with your deck, so many pieces that can have synergy. I guess this ties into classes too because it's too cookie-cutter, and it doesn't make it better that you could technically have a lot of options because it makes little sense to use most of them and just be strictly worse in any situation
Andy, I know your busy, but please pass this on when you get a second, I think you can safely say that most players are a little burnt out on the campaigns and we request a more specific direction of epic content instead.
I understand that its too late to pull back on the next release, but Im hoping this feedback makes it way around.
That wouldve solved my issue, small transactions for speedier progression. That is how most other mmos do it.
Basically we are back to the point that there is nothing to spend real money on since they ripped VIP down to nubs and stubs.
Non paying customers wouldve benefited as well, with reduced enchantment prices (they are now 30-40% higher then before removal.
Company wouldve benefited by having pure cash.
However, having progression doesnt mean much, if the game is 80% campaigns =P .. you can beat those in green gear for goodness sake.