keep getting kicked from epic dungeons

penybont · May 2016

I keep getting kicked from epic dungeons and I don't know why I have asked but never get a reply. It is stupid dice I keep getting quest to do pic dungeons but I can't do them because I get kicked

cesar · May 2016

What is your class and its ilvl?

silverkelt · May 2016

unless you are talking about sh dungeon quest, there is no other quest that you need to do in the dungeons, you just need to run them for salvage.

Simply kicking people for i level is stupid, even for skill, everyone can grow and learn, I would only ever kick people for being jerks, acting with acrimonious nature to others and simply not listening to instructions if needed (though you dont need those that often ) this game doesnt require much in the framework of teamwork to actually complete anything. Not if compared to other games raids or something, where actual stepping outside of a area, could wipe your party.

moogie101 · May 2016

People might be kicking you because you're underlevelled for the Epic dungeons, these are a lot harder & take a lot longer to complete than the standard dungeons. You may need to level up your character more before this stops happening.

missdayum · May 2016

cesar#6784 said:
What is your class and its ilvl?

The only two question I'd ask too. Nothing else matters.

firepats12 · May 2016

Not that it should matter too much, but you are most likely under-geared by most people's standards when it comes to Epic Dungeons. The Minimum Item Level Required to run any of the dungeons is known to most of the player base to be WAY TOO LOW. I mean, 2000 for Epic Crag Crypts/Spider....lol. And more recently, 2000 for Castle Never? I would love to see a group of 2000 IL people beat Orcus. Not that it can't be done, but if it did happen, it would take all day.

awrex1977 · May 2016

It's not way too low, there isn't content in game that cannot be completed at the requirement.

There is not content in game that cannot be over geared. Meaning there is no content in game that matches the power creep.

At 2K certain things are more challenging, sure. Is there anything wrong with that? Nope.

Problem is 70+ content is all based on farming & how fast it can be burned through. Unless you are running with friends, if you don't contribute to burning something quickly, the majority of the player base don't want to "carry you". It's stupid.

Yesterday morning I figured I'd que for CN on my CW - guild activity was low on a Sunday morning. I que'd solo, got in quickly - a DC (3500 IL), OP, a TR, another CW, and myself (3075 IL).

Dungeon was being done easily, no real threat of wiping.

Issue (I assume) was that it wasn't being cleared fast enough, no GWF/SW, TR/CW weren't 3K+, after the 1st boss, DC said something along the lines of "team isn't mixed enough" and left... Tank ended up leaving shortly, que abandoned shortly after. Why? Because instead of running it in 15 minutes, it wold have taken 30... again, it's stupid.

penybont · May 2016

I'm a lvl 70 control wizard spellstorm mage

thefiresidecat · May 2016

but what is your item level. level 70 is the start of end game gearing. Item level covers how highly ranked your armors are, your enchants are, your artifacts, your underarmor.. your weapons. basically unless you're running with friends you're going to get kicked from dungeons unless your ilevel is at least about 2300 (and even then you might get kicked)

the best way to get gearedup at this point is to farm demons in the WOD and buy gear in mantol derith with it.

penybont · May 2016

My item lvl is 1.848 and the dungeons I get kicked out of are Valindra's Tower and Malabog's Castle.

Where and what is WOD

bratleyray · May 2016

Well of dragons

thefiresidecat · May 2016

also buy some rank 7 enchantments. that should help a little.

satniteeduardo · May 2016

penybont said:
My item lvl is 1.848 and the dungeons I get kicked out of are Valindra's Tower and Malabog's Castle.

Where and what is WOD

You definitely either need to get that item level up or learn to pull your weight in dungeons. Some will kick based on IL alone. Others will wait and see if you can play a part in the victory, if not you will be kicked.

1.848 is pretty low. Try to either get jewelcrafting up to level 25 to make yourself some double slotted rings or try to win some from Throne or Prophecy.

Try to get shirt and pants either from the auction house or from Mantol Derith spending Demonic Ichor (do Demonic Heroics in Well of Dragons to get the ichor - you can in Icewind and Dread Ring as well but WoD is often more populated).

Then put minimum of rank 7s in every slot.

I am surprised you can be that low at 70. I did not think I did anything out of the ordinary and my new 70s seem to hit 2.1k ish once the level 70 weapons are equipped and stuff picked up.

Try to get an artifact belt and neck and 4 artifacts up to purple minimum ASAP.

If you need advice on any of these specific items feel free to ask.

thefiresidecat · May 2016

yeah if you have other toons, you can rank a toon up to 2.2 or 2.3 right away but if you're going with baseline stuff without another toon to donate you can be very very low il as a new 70. 1.3 even.

thefiresidecat · May 2016

you can also buy duskboots from the ah for not very much money.

vaultingfrog · May 2016

Unfortunately for you the grind for gear is a long and slow process. You are limited to 400 Demonic Ichor a week which is enough to buy a single piece every week (not including boots or gauntlets). That is a minimum of 3 weeks for 3 pieces of gear (pants, shirt and helmet) plus I believe the chest piece is a bit more expensive so tack on an extra 2 weeks for that.

So you are looking at 5 weeks for those pieces of purple gear. Ouch is right. Personally I dont think that is worth it right now for you. Yes its a goal to work towards for gearing yourself up but your artifacts and enchants are going to give you some big gear score so when you can refine those do it. The level 7's which you can buy with trade bars are fairly easy to get and not too spendy on the market if you need to use astral diamonds instead.

Jewel crafting is nice but again that is going to take time and resources to level up to the point of making yourself some rings that are worth while.

Instead I suggest you find a group doing Lostmouth and try to stick with them. Even if you get kicked more than a few times there will be groups willing to help you out in it. I know I do it all the time for toons with a low item level. And yes I am a pally when helping them out.... but thats besides the point. When you do Lostmouth you start earning elemental seals which can be turned in for some what decent gear just to get your toon up over 2k item level. From and in the mean time the demonic stuff as well as throne or prophecy are a good way to earn some loot. Doing well in those gives you a shot at some decent rings which can boost your IL up as well.

ecrana · May 2016

vaultingfrog#2497 said:
Instead I suggest you find a group doing Lostmouth and try to stick with them.

I suggest this route as well. Your IL is low so most won't want to carry you but if you can get in a good group they may overlook it.

Honestly, most people kicking you are probably looking to do speed runs and not willing to slow down. I don't generally kick people since I remember how hard it was to run dungeons before getting into a guild.

If you find a guild you like they can help you run dungeons. You can also go to Protectors and use chat to find a group. It might not be a group of 3k IL but it might help you get in a good premade group.

awrex1977 · May 2016

It's ridiculous that you are getting kicked from 1600 IL dungeons at 1800+

thejawlives · May 2016

If you can que in...you have every right to be there

wdj40 · May 2016

I agree... I have seen a few kick pop ups lately in PUG runs where someone has the potential to be kicked. I vote no every time, I will run with anyone that gets put into the group. I would rather wipe a few times than kick someone who is trying.

awrex1977 · May 2016

wdj40 said:
I agree... I have seen a few kick pop ups lately in PUG runs where someone has the potential to be kicked. I vote no every time, I will run with anyone that gets put into the group. I would rather wipe a few times than kick someone who is trying.

Agree. I never vote yes to a kick if the person is there, i.e. not disconnected for an extended amount of time.

armadeonx · May 2016

Peny, I understand the need & desire to run the dungeons but the politics of being nice aside, your item level is such that you would be almost no help to the group.

At 1.8k your armor penetration - or resistance ignored to be more specific - will be below the damage reduction stat of the enemies - making your hits negligible. I know the dungeons say 1600+ but that's actually for 1600's who are being carried by a team of people who are better geared.

Once reaching L70, new players should run the campaign zones, getting boons plus ichor from demonic heroics for armor. Run the 3 man dungeons and easier skirmishes for AD.

Save your AD & buy the following:
Rank 7 enchantments for all slots - about 4k each
Gemmed Adamant Rings of Piercing to boost your Armor Pen (about 90k ea atm)
Gemmed L70 purple pants & shirt for your class - for the pair it'll cost you around 250k
Personally I'd suggest you also buy an Ioun stone of radiance for 1k Zen and load it with 3 lesser bonding runestones plus gemmed rings and belt preferably double slotted or ones you can upgrade to personalised with the Jewellery crafting profession.

Total cost without the ioun is around 450k - you should be earning 20k per day with 2 dungeons & 2 skirmishes so that's about 3 weeks.

Funnily enough that's about how long it takes to get to the 4th boon in Sharandar. Once you've bought this AND achieved your 4th boons in Sharandar, Dread Ring and Tyranny you are ready to start out on T2's plus the Ice Wind Dale campaign (as a CW you shouldn't go there before this unless you are with other people).

People have gotten into a mindset that everyone should be able to run T2s regardless of level or ability - this is mostly since the introduction of the Bubble Pally - this is all about to change with the bubble nerf.

T2 dungeons are end-game content and you need to be geared for it. The gearing up process is an unavoidable & very necessary investment in your character.

You should also read this post which is a build guide and explanation for the CW. It's an excellent build and even if yours isnt at all like this it will give you a better understanding of your class, feats and powers.

awrex1977 · May 2016

VT/Malabog/LoL/Kessels (which is now considered a dungeon according to que reqs) aren't T2 and don't require a bubble (or a tank for that matter).

Outgrearing the required IL by over 200 on T1's and getting kicked is ridiculous.

I would imagine the people doing the kicking were well over 2K, and chances are could 4 man it.

There is a limited number of things to do content wise once you hit 70.

Getting kicked from the the lowest IL required things that are available is totally unwarranted.

thefiresidecat · May 2016

I used to be so understanding but it's by circumstance now if I'll vote yes or not. depends if the team has been massively struggling already or not and if there is a bubble and haste or permabubble. I dont need speedruns every time but I've been in too many instances where because you don't kick the low level everyone quits and then the new people coming in take a look at the low level and the scoreboard and cycle out until no more replacements are given. to avoid that I generally will votekick if it's been put forth and has the feel of that happening. the best solution is to find a guild that accepts all. Casual gamers is a good choice for someone in your shoes.

telprydain · May 2016

Casual Gamers has a very friendly Paladin who will be happy to take you through the starting Dungeons (look for Ardu)

satniteeduardo · May 2016

awrex1977 said:
It's ridiculous that you are getting kicked from 1600 IL dungeons at 1800+

Whilst I generally do not kick or vote yes I have to ask - have you ever been the only one significantly higher than the minimum required for a dungeon.

The minimum level for the dungeons is a joke.

Good players with the minimum level could probably give it a shake but most people running between 1600 and say 2000 or even higher are a hindrance.

I am not criticising the player here more the game design.

In my opinion the game should have higher requirements for some dungeons but make it clearer how to get to the higher IL.

Maybe even have the dungeons staggered eg an easy dungeon for 1600s, medium for 1900s and hard for 2200s or something.

ddem0n888 · May 2016

thefiresidecat said:
I used to be so understanding but it's by circumstance now if I'll vote yes or not. depends if the team has been massively struggling already or not and if there is a bubble and haste or permabubble. I dont need speedruns every time but I've been in too many instances where because you don't kick the low level everyone quits and then the new people coming in take a look at the low level and the scoreboard and cycle out until no more replacements are given. to avoid that I generally will votekick if it's been put forth and has the feel of that happening. the best solution is to find a guild that accepts all. Casual gamers is a good choice for someone in your shoes.

I remember when you were in Casual Gamers....before you became bitter and disenfranchised :P

But to throw my two penneth in as it were. I've never kicked due to "Low I Level". If I'm in a Group and we're really struggling I'll just leave. I'm a 4K GWF and can handle myself but some dungeons just need the right set up or combination to achieve. In Mod 4/5, finishing most dungeons was an Achievement (Apart from Pirate King of course).

I really don't feel comfortable kicking someone who's I level meets the requirements. They have as much right as I, or anyone else has to be in that dungeon.

It makes me laugh when people say "You need a better I Level, buy some better gear and enchants". One of the main ways to make AD to do these things is grinding dungeons for salvage. This has been a vicious circle since Mod 4/5.

Perhaps the dungeons should scale to I level but then where would the achievement be?

To echo @thefiresidecat join a Guild. They'll have plenty of people running dungeons at various I lvls and you'll get great advice.

thefiresidecat · May 2016

@ddem0n888 ah I am no longer bitter and disenfranchised now that I am in a different guild. it just wasn't a long term fit for me

I don't consider my stance on the dungeons to be bitter and disenfranchised. it's more about recognizing patterns and realism. If you leave you just start the cycle of everyone else dropping out and the rest of the team falls apart. (but you don't see it because you've already quit) then other people cycle in and immediately leave and boom the game is over for the rest of the ppl who have been there playing for the last hour.

I've been there for it. (not you personally)

but, I'll also leave in certain situations. If the entire party is just at entry Ilevel.. I leave.

it's really situational how I'll react in any given dungeon. I try to look at the greater good. but seriously just because someone can join doesn't mean they should. The Ilevels are weirdly optimistic for pubs. unless you have a very good bubble and haste. Have you ever tried to make it thru a dungeon without bubble and haste with a bunch of people under 2k? lol. It's entertaining.. for awhile.

imo with a really well geared team 2800 and up and people who know their class you can carry two low ilevels. Especially if they happen to be the support. if it's high level support and the two low ilevels are your dps that becomes a little more dire. but usually doable if your support has a perm bubble. if you're looking at a team made up of 2300-2500 then having a 2k is kind of dire having more than one is probably fail. (unless they're really experienced or your support, and have some idea as to how to be support)

so yeah, greater good. what is the solution for making sure the dungeon goes thru instead of falls apart because of ppl leaving or just being accomplishable because of an incorrect make up? it's not just the low level in question that matters. it's about the rest of the team too. Usually the highest Ilevel is the bellwether. if they quit everyone else will too. usually it's that person who is voting the lowest out.. I don't know how many dungeons i've been in that vote no, we will keep the low level then the high level quits an then boom it's game over. If they just quit because of a low il so will everyone else.

So either way that low ilevel doesn't get to play and everyone else loses the game they've been working at.

ddem0n888 · May 2016

@thefiresidecat Just a little gentle 'leg pulling'

To reaffirm my original point. Join an established Guild and run with them. I know some people have an aversion to joining a Guild and that's up to them but if you're low ilevel you have the advantage of running with the higher ilevel members. You'll also get a lot of good advice and, if other well established guild are anything like mine, you'll find items in the Guild bank to help out lower level players.

Imo, once you hit Level 70 you should be getting to ilvl 2200 pretty quickly. Within 3 weeks.

awrex1977 · May 2016

satniteeduardo said:

awrex1977 said:
It's ridiculous that you are getting kicked from 1600 IL dungeons at 1800+
Whilst I generally do not kick or vote yes I have to ask - have you ever been the only one significantly higher than the minimum required for a dungeon.

Frequently on my CW, occasionally on my DC

The minimum level for the dungeons is a joke.

Agree, the ones he's talking about - VT/Malabog specifically shouldn't have an IL req, if you hit 70, they should be open to whoever wants to run them.

Good players with the minimum level could probably give it a shake but most people running between 1600 and say 2000 or even higher are a hindrance.

Again, anything over 1600 can (or at least should be able to) steamroll VT/Malabog. They are T1 dungeons that drop T1 gear and seals which are used to progress your character to T2 content.

I am not criticising the player here more the game design.

I'm not criticising the game or the player here either, I am criticising the player base in general who won't allow someone a fair shake at content they are, strictly going by IL, (over)qualified for.

In my opinion the game should have higher requirements for some dungeons but make it clearer how to get to the higher IL.

It's fairly straight forward - hit 1600 you can que for LoL, VT, Malabog, and Kessel's - all of which drop T1 gear and seals. When you hit 2K, eCC, eGWD, eToS, and CN are now available. One could argue with the addition of Demonic HE's, Skirmishes and Drowcraft gear, there really is no point to run the 4 T2 dungeons - run enough of these you can deck yourself out in 135 IL armor (same IL as the stuff you buy with T2 seals), and BiS rings. But that's not even the point here - OP isn't talking about T2's or CN, he's talking about entry level dungeons, that by design are there to acquire throw away gear that's only purpose is to make it possible to attempt the Epic dungeons

Maybe even have the dungeons staggered eg an easy dungeon for 1600s, medium for 1900s and hard for 2200s or something.

The problem will still exist if this were to happen - There will be people so overgeared, IL will always be a stupid sticking point. It wasn't all that long ago that PE was flooded with 2.5K+ DPS only, that changed to 2.8, to 3K+, etc & so on

armadeonx · May 2016

The point you are overlooking with these simplistic statements is the one Fireside made - if the runs becomes very slow or difficult due to the presence of very low IL players then everybody suffers. These other players are not in the same guild & they don't owe the low level player a free ride (which is essentially what we are talking about).

At 1800 your Armor Pen is probably around 40%, power below 10k and no crit to speak of. Add the lack of boons, poor weapon ench etc - the player will be a net burden on the team.

Spending 3 to 4 weeks gearing up via other means and all of this is corrected - or join a guild that likes to run lower levels through the content - there are plenty of them.

Selfish or practical or both - that's a matter of personal opinion.

keep getting kicked from epic dungeons

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