its awesome that they want to remove AD from leadership, i suggested it a long time ago, its bs that main way to inject currency in game is some boring rear profession, whats the problem with the good old mechanic where bottom of the food chain farm quests for AD while top of the food chain sell dungeon drops to the bottom part ? its just stupid that you can make 50 characters for leadership and make a million a day without playing at all
This is going to affect the players who don't use leadership when all those who do leave the game or play much less frequently. With no one to play with this game is going to get boring. Almost everyone has stated they will spend much less or zero going forward so that means the game will continue to go downhill as more dev staff will be let go and the content and bug fixes dry up.
Hiring a fixer to come in and shore up the game's economy was a good idea. The bad one was hiring Mr. Shicoff. His ideas since coming on have been nothing but bad for the game since day one. We all had such high hopes for him too. It's too bad as management won't see that until they see next month's numbers. By then it will be too late.
its just leadership farms and botters panicking about losing their free income
This is going to affect the players who don't use leadership when all those who do leave the game or play much less frequently. With no one to play with this game is going to get boring. Almost everyone has stated they will spend much less or zero going forward so that means the game will continue to go downhill as more dev staff will be let go and the content and bug fixes dry up.
Hiring a fixer to come in and shore up the game's economy was a good idea. The bad one was hiring Mr. Shicoff. His ideas since coming on have been nothing but bad for the game since day one. We all had such high hopes for him too. It's too bad as management won't see that until they see next month's numbers. By then it will be too late.
its just leadership farms and botters panicking about losing their free income
You are missing the part where there is absolutely no way for solo players to make AD. And the part where they did not add ways to make ad, they only made the existing ones easier. Unless you call running 8 dungeons to earn 1k adding ways to make ad.
Yes, I am a player who has not played dungeons or skirmishes in months - not even Call to Arms. I just do a couple daylies, HEs and talk to some ppl. I can't invest 1:30 hours or more in a row into doing a dungeon. Even then, it is not an enjoyable experience to be a newbie in dungeon world - you gotta go with people willing to explain things. Which means you have to FIND those people. Yes, I can plan something with my guild if I want - planning, because we are not that big and we are in all time zones so there are usully 4 or 5 people on, at some times 10 or 15 but that's at night for me, when it is evening in the US and morning in Australia.
So no, I don't think it is just leadership farms and botters, and I think it is a bit naive to say that when almost everyone in this topic says this is bad since they are only removing sources of AD and not adding them.
FYI yes I do do leadership, I have 4 characters who are at max level leadership. I don't consider myself a leadership farmer, and I completely agree leadership currently makes a ridiculous amount of AD. My problem is that they are not adding any sources of AD to any stuff I am doing and enjoy doing in game, just like a lot of ppl around here.
(Sorry for the rage - it is not aimed personally at you, except the part where I think you could have read that 1 page of comments in this thread before posting and stopped thinking 'Well maybe it is not just leadership farms and botters!'.)
leadership is my only income too(running a dungeon or 2 doesnt really do anything) but i still find it stupid that the best way to gain ad is not to play the game, imho professions should be update to be account wide not /character, then they could leave ad and stop 50 character farms, since without ad they still will generate tons of unbound RP, that will be made bound as next "fix"
People who say they'll spend less time playing I suspect is a red herring; those who will spend less time playing do so for the bugs and previous changes. The nerf to professions regarding AD will either cause people to quit outright or they'll just keep doing what they're doing right now - which is to keep playing what they are doing now for the most part.
I'll give it 2 weeks. If the prices of all the stuff we need to make progress aren't at least halved in that time, and available from vendors at that price, showing that Cryptic is taking responsibility for the crisis that their own ineptitude has created, I'm off. Some of these changes are outright unethical, given that people have spent money in good faith only to have the fruits of their investment removed.
plain simple... I have 18 chars right now, 12 on leadership 25... took me quite a while to develop this... if this HAMSTER will stay the way it is I will play out my VIP and leave... period !
or maybe I should reclaim my money back since it was spent under different preconditions. I was not very happy with a lot of decisions made by Gamehosts but this tops it by far.
This poll won't correctly represent NW's population. First of all, the type of players visiting these forums and voting on this will be skewed. Secondly, the leadership army folks are very peeved. If the majority of the votes are coming from them and some of them have multiple accounts (not just chars)...
Define leadership army? I got 7 characters, 5 of them have some level of leadership over 10, 4 over 20. Is that a leadership army? I undoubtedly made way more AD than I'll be able to now. I actually have a decent amount of spare time to play in, but certainly not enough to actually do all the dungeons and skirmishes etc. to get even close to my previous income. Especially not if I actually want to do things that benefits my character. Like doing campaigns or whatnot. A dungeon might only take 10 minutes. But do two on four characters and then your looking at an hour and a half. And that's before getting to do anything fun (speed rushing your required dungeons won't be fun, just a time gate) or anything else that might possibly advance your character.
If this had been part of a coordinated and well thought out re-balancing of the economy where AD was a reward for more than a couple of things, Leadership was balanced to make it worthwhile still, cost were aligned to reflect the new reality etc. then this could possibly be a good thing. Instead it's been done in pretty much the most hamfisted inept way possible. At least if you take their word for what they are trying to do, hit botters. Of course, I don't know anyone who actually believe them, it's blatantly a way of trying to force people to buy more zen to be able to progress at a somewhat decent pace.
So as part of a complete re-balance this could be a fine move, in isolation and the way they have implemented it it's just a blatant attempt at extracting more money with the vague promise that they might try and fix something in the future. Now the company got to make money, obviously, but I'm somewhat skeptical whatever this is a good way of doing it. I'm way more inclined to spend money if I'm having fun and for useful extra things than simply to try and play the game. If that's the case then move it to a proper subscription basis, I'd be okay with that too. This just feels badly planned and like they are trying to deceive you.
As this game has now definitely moved from a Solo / Multiplayer RPG to strictly a Multiplayer RPG, I'm going to stop playing. All the ridiculous changes to IWD, WoD and now the removal for getting RAD on solo play (I need some way to get those Greater Marks of Potency) is finally tipping the balance. I already tuned down my playing time after the 71+ minions "one shot"-debacle, now it's time to say goodbye. Even though I love the theme and have been playing ever since the game got out of beta, my eyes are now opened and I see the direction where this game is heading to. Unfortunately, it's not the direction for me. I hope that they will get the attention of the players for who this game IS intended for, otherwise I've lost a very good game for nought. :-(
They said they would add stuff when they removed AD from professions. Has anyone noticed ANY task where AD was removed and something else added? They look all the same way as before for me, minus the AD.
As a person that only has one character (I have been playing since release and never had more than a single character) I knew that the huge leadership armies people had were a problem and I know it is ideal that they did something to fix it, but I do wish they would have found a better way. The economy did get grossly inflated due to people being able to make a million AD a day through leadership, but they should have found a way to allow at least one character to perform leadership tasks for AD.
While I am glad to see the ability for people to exploit leadership gone, it will likely cause me to play very little as I have virtually no chance of ever making decent AD anymore given how I play. If I thought prices would plummet to next to nothing (as they would need to do to make up for such a terrible change) I would not mind as much, but chances are they won't improve that much.
I hope they take a little time to think about how they could add rough AD to leadership for one character per account. At the very least they need to change some of the leadership recipes. There are some recipes that take a huge amount of time and resources because they gave AD and now they give next to nothing.
Just gonna log in to collect my free enchanted key and do some invoking till they remove the AD from that as well. Man, I wish I didn't spend my zen on the VIP now. This is such a panic move. They really didn't think things through. Stuff is so unbalanced now. And then that crappy line saying leadership is still usefull for xp and gold... What a joke.
Just gonna log in to collect my free enchanted key and do some invoking till they remove the AD from that as well. Man, I wish I didn't spend my zen on the VIP now. This is such a panic move. They really didn't think things through. Stuff is so unbalanced now. And then that crappy line saying leadership is still usefull for xp and gold... What a joke.
That is all I am doing as well. Not going to play the game like it is. And darn sure not giving them another cent. They completely don't deserve it. I was really starting to enjoy the game now that I got a couple of toons to level 20 leadership and my third almost there. Finally getting some AD to level up and bam, Cryptic takes it away. If I had a way to get my money for going vip back, I would. And just leave altogether. I even tried to get some friends to come join me but if ever asked about this game from this point on, I will tell whoever asks to avoid it like the plague. At least until the game is dead or the devs finally pull their head out their HAMSTER and change things.
Has anyone considered how are Guilds going to complete their Strongholds? Those are HUGH AD sink holes, I know as a solo player I won't donate anymore AD to them. Also on the note, that is the main reason why the exchanged rate is dropping so fast, the same thing happened in Star Trek Online when the fleet base started. thier exchange rate is at 230-250 at the moment.
It probably wont really at all for me. Ive been here since launch, already weathered the storm. I stopped spending during the storm though, after astral resonator exploit. So probably not gonna change much for me. Zero dollars to PW or cryptic, maybe a tiny bit less or more playtime depending on how I feel that day.
There are other games where I spend money. Completely different genres. The F2P MMORPG industry lost a paying customer, probably for life.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I *liked* doing leadership on my characters - it gave me something to do in Neverwinter when I couldn't login to the actual client. At the same time, being able to generate ADs from those tasks meant that I could slowly, steadily, save up for items I wanted. Now that this enticement has gone, I'll probably limit myself to dailies on just 1 character.
To me, *all* aspects of Neverwinter are just as much "the game" as any other - professions and the Gateway included. Taking away the main incentive to play one aspect that I enjoyed is not endearing me the the game...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I am one of those casual players that typically solo's and used to like and spend some money on this game, with these changes that is now over. On the bright side, maybe the money I save can find a home in a game where they don't punish everyone for a few abusers, man I hate Kindergarten Logic: "Joey was bad, so the whole class must put there heads down", Put Joey in a damn corner with a big Dunce cap on, or in this case investigate better and ban the abusers!!
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Look, the problem wasn't "abusers." the problem was people who used the systems in a coherent and meaningful way.
I'm not going to say no one was cheating, but the problem wasn't the cheaters. The problem was that the system was simply set up in a way that didn't make sense for the goals of the game. The hope from a design standpoint was never to have people have 20 characters just to boost their 1 character. The leadership change addresses that.
Does it solve it? No of course not. You're STILL best off having 20 characters. But now you just focus on farming RP items.
Neverwinter has stated loudly: "Screw solo players, this is not a game for them, they are unwanted" end of story, time to dust off my Marvel Heroes account, sad that "Dungeons & Dragons" has to be associated with this. But who cares for the genre, let's just make the few who can always play together so much more able to gain the truly good stuff. Do this rather than build a game where player(s) solve problems by thinking them through not loading up teams with the "right" Total Item Level and specific builds so that every successful solution looks basically the same. Or at least incentivize more open teaming by making half the team random members and heavily penalizing deserters1
I have still a lot of VIP time left, i'm going to log in daily to grab the rewards, may be invoke, try out other professions until those get nerf hammered into the ground too, but i will spend less time really playing.
thats until they take VIP away because of "key botters" or somthing
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited September 2015
I'm sure they don't mind "key botters"
After all, VIP passes need to be purchased with zen at some point. In fact, having a bot have a VIP pass is a really good way to find them and ban them conveniently after they just purchased 12 months of VIP.
This would artificially inflate zen prices on the ZAX but, well, we've had that for a year now, and only now are having that be addressed.
Everything so far feels too much like knee-jerk reaction without any plan. Think about it, Cryptic. And I'm holding my nose and pointing my finger at MANAGEMENT, not the Developers proper.
Edit: typos - most anyway.
Oh no there was a plan ... and it was to cause a panic in the ZAX and get all the speculators buying zen to get AD at top price before the economy tanked and zen went back to 180 ad per I gurantee they made a fortune because of this change. It hand absolutely 0 to do with botters and 100% to do with hey we are losing zen sales because people can make too much mone in game
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Except it's the opposite. When the AD price of zen falls, the net purchasing power of zen in terms of AD based items (eg Wondrous Bazaar items) falls. If they wanted to encourage zen purchases, they should have raised the AD cap on the ZAX, not lowered the AD value of zen by changing everyone's net income.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I've logged in a few times and done a task or two, but I have no urge to play. Normally I get on for hours.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
As a person that only has one character (I have been playing since release and never had more than a single character) I knew that the huge leadership armies people had were a problem and I know it is ideal that they did something to fix it, but I do wish they would have found a better way. The economy did get grossly inflated due to people being able to make a million AD a day through leadership, but they should have found a way to allow at least one character to perform leadership tasks for AD.
While I am glad to see the ability for people to exploit leadership gone, it will likely cause me to play very little as I have virtually no chance of ever making decent AD anymore given how I play. If I thought prices would plummet to next to nothing (as they would need to do to make up for such a terrible change) I would not mind as much, but chances are they won't improve that much.
I hope they take a little time to think about how they could add rough AD to leadership for one character per account. At the very least they need to change some of the leadership recipes. There are some recipes that take a huge amount of time and resources because they gave AD and now they give next to nothing.
Comments
Yes, I am a player who has not played dungeons or skirmishes in months - not even Call to Arms. I just do a couple daylies, HEs and talk to some ppl. I can't invest 1:30 hours or more in a row into doing a dungeon. Even then, it is not an enjoyable experience to be a newbie in dungeon world - you gotta go with people willing to explain things. Which means you have to FIND those people. Yes, I can plan something with my guild if I want - planning, because we are not that big and we are in all time zones so there are usully 4 or 5 people on, at some times 10 or 15 but that's at night for me, when it is evening in the US and morning in Australia.
So no, I don't think it is just leadership farms and botters, and I think it is a bit naive to say that when almost everyone in this topic says this is bad since they are only removing sources of AD and not adding them.
FYI yes I do do leadership, I have 4 characters who are at max level leadership. I don't consider myself a leadership farmer, and I completely agree leadership currently makes a ridiculous amount of AD. My problem is that they are not adding any sources of AD to any stuff I am doing and enjoy doing in game, just like a lot of ppl around here.
(Sorry for the rage - it is not aimed personally at you, except the part where I think you could have read that 1 page of comments in this thread before posting and stopped thinking 'Well maybe it is not just leadership farms and botters!'.)
or maybe I should reclaim my money back since it was spent under different preconditions. I was not very happy with a lot of decisions made by Gamehosts but this tops it by far.
If this had been part of a coordinated and well thought out re-balancing of the economy where AD was a reward for more than a couple of things, Leadership was balanced to make it worthwhile still, cost were aligned to reflect the new reality etc. then this could possibly be a good thing. Instead it's been done in pretty much the most hamfisted inept way possible. At least if you take their word for what they are trying to do, hit botters. Of course, I don't know anyone who actually believe them, it's blatantly a way of trying to force people to buy more zen to be able to progress at a somewhat decent pace.
So as part of a complete re-balance this could be a fine move, in isolation and the way they have implemented it it's just a blatant attempt at extracting more money with the vague promise that they might try and fix something in the future.
Now the company got to make money, obviously, but I'm somewhat skeptical whatever this is a good way of doing it. I'm way more inclined to spend money if I'm having fun and for useful extra things than simply to try and play the game. If that's the case then move it to a proper subscription basis, I'd be okay with that too. This just feels badly planned and like they are trying to deceive you.
While I am glad to see the ability for people to exploit leadership gone, it will likely cause me to play very little as I have virtually no chance of ever making decent AD anymore given how I play. If I thought prices would plummet to next to nothing (as they would need to do to make up for such a terrible change) I would not mind as much, but chances are they won't improve that much.
I hope they take a little time to think about how they could add rough AD to leadership for one character per account. At the very least they need to change some of the leadership recipes. There are some recipes that take a huge amount of time and resources because they gave AD and now they give next to nothing.
It feels like I've been playing ages, but I only have a couple of lvl 100 ish artifacts, the other two are 70ish.
There's just no way for me to catch up without spending. And spending is a no no. I've spent enough.
I can't even give my stuff away as it's all bound.
I think I'll be down to logging in once a week to see if there's any changes over the course of a month or two. Then it's onwards to other things.
There are other games where I spend money. Completely different genres. The F2P MMORPG industry lost a paying customer, probably for life.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
To me, *all* aspects of Neverwinter are just as much "the game" as any other - professions and the Gateway included. Taking away the main incentive to play one aspect that I enjoyed is not endearing me the the game...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Who cares about them amirite? Bye! We only want the hardcore addicts to funnel their money into NWO.
I'm not going to say no one was cheating, but the problem wasn't the cheaters. The problem was that the system was simply set up in a way that didn't make sense for the goals of the game. The hope from a design standpoint was never to have people have 20 characters just to boost their 1 character. The leadership change addresses that.
Does it solve it? No of course not. You're STILL best off having 20 characters. But now you just focus on farming RP items.
After all, VIP passes need to be purchased with zen at some point. In fact, having a bot have a VIP pass is a really good way to find them and ban them conveniently after they just purchased 12 months of VIP.
This would artificially inflate zen prices on the ZAX but, well, we've had that for a year now, and only now are having that be addressed.