I have still a lot of VIP time left, i'm going to log in daily to grab the rewards, may be invoke, try out other professions until those get nerf hammered into the ground too, but i will spend less time really playing.
thats until they take VIP away because of "key botters" or somthing
ViP will stay the same, or might even improve a bit... but they might remove the auction house at some point, botters are using it to move AD from seller to buyer accounts.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I doubt they'll go ahead and remove the AH entirely. They might theoretically make it based on gold and make Wondrous Bazaar purchases 100% Bound on purchase, though. Goldspammers could of course sell gold to people still, but since wondrous bazaar and zen items aren't tradeable through the AH (or face to face) at that point, not sure what the value is.
Honestly, I don't expect a whole lot more changes, other than possibly making more things bound, in the near future.
Except it's the opposite. When the AD price of zen falls, the net purchasing power of zen in terms of AD based items (eg Wondrous Bazaar items) falls. If they wanted to encourage zen purchases, they should have raised the AD cap on the ZAX, not lowered the AD value of zen by changing everyone's net income.
they cleared a 2-3 million backlog in about a day just by announcing a change. people want the most AD for their zen so they bought as much zen as the could to convert to AD because zen is less valuable now and you can buy more with AD than you can with zen because you can buy zen items for AD by ether the AH or the ZAX think of it inreuben sammiches(mainly because I am hungry) bob sells reuben sammich that is worth 1$ for 500 peanuts. then he goes and burns down all the peanut fields making a peanut shortage. people want peanuts because they are more useful than reuben sammiches. So they buy a bunch of reuben sammiches for 1 dollar, because they can sell them for 500 peanuts and since there is a backlog on reuben sammiches. bob makes a killing selling reuben sammies because he created the peanut shortage
hope that makes more sense
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
No, that makes no sense. The reason the backlog was cleared wasn't a whole bunch of people buying zen, it's a whole bunch of people withdrawing orders to buy zen.
But all that being said, I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything? We both agree people want the most AD for their zen. My point is that, by instituting massive deflation by reducing player incomes, the purchasing power of the zen will also fall, because the exchange rate falls. So if the goal were to get more people to cashBuy zen, then the logic fails.
No, that makes no sense. The reason the backlog was cleared wasn't a whole bunch of people buying zen, it's a whole bunch of people withdrawing orders to buy zen.
But all that being said, I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything? We both agree people want the most AD for their zen. My point is that, by instituting massive deflation by reducing player incomes, the purchasing power of the zen will also fall, because the exchange rate falls. So if the goal were to get more people to cashBuy zen, then the logic fails.
very good point I stand corrected.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Oh cool, I have a conversation with someone on the internet, and it didn't end with us screaming at each other irrationally. Awesome! Definitely a first.
More people will start to buy AD from botters directly. There's hardly any risk for getting banned, and you get more AD for your money... And this change was being made to fight botters. How is that logical?
No, that makes no sense. The reason the backlog was cleared wasn't a whole bunch of people buying zen, it's a whole bunch of people withdrawing orders to buy zen.
But all that being said, I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything? We both agree people want the most AD for their zen. My point is that, by instituting massive deflation by reducing player incomes, the purchasing power of the zen will also fall, because the exchange rate falls. So if the goal were to get more people to cashBuy zen, then the logic fails.
Exactly, if people can't afford it, you have no choice but to push the price down till your zen starts moving. Hence, that value of zen will drop very2x quickly.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Yeah, if you're good at market manipulation, you can make a pretty penny buy buying low and selling high. But that was actually more true back in The Old Days, and is just a fact of how the exchange works. You also have to remember some people probably bought at 450, and have lost a good amount of wealth because the zen never recovered to that level, and some people are waiting to buy at 350, and simply have their funds tied up in useless buy orders.
I'm just divesting myself of the ZAX entirely for now, while I store up refining packs so I can get coupons for when/if I finally decide to purchase zen again.
Notice how the AD vendor's have stopped spamming now. They are waiting for the price of AD to sky rocket. They probably already have about 100M AD stocked.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Well, the price for 1m AD went from around 9$ to 12$, but they're still spamming in PE and even Neverdeath Graveyard.
I'm going to fill my AD into the ZAX, getting at least 3k ZEN will now take a lot of time, and i really doubt that people will continue to buy ZEN... At some point, the AD price for ZEN will go up again, and i doubt that the backlog will clear at the same 1m AD per day rate by then.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Ehhhhh... count me skeptical.
See, here's the thing: why would they be hoarding AD? The goal for them is not to have AD, it's to convert AD to RL cash. It's not the goldspammers, it's the players that are more likely to hoard AD.
The reason why, of course, is the time value of money. For the goldspammers, AD that sits as AD and isn't converted to cash is money they don't have in hand, meaning it's money that can't be used for financing, or otherwise making more money. I suppose that they may very well have reduced/ceased operations when they "Hey guys heads up we're removing AD From leadership lulz" announcement was first released, but then they should "only" have a week's worth of hoarding. And since the demand for AD was super high due to double RP weekend, they likely considered it a substantial risk to miss out on selling off their wares during that period of time.
Is it possible they instead decided to just hold onto AD, thinking that they'd be able to sell it all off at dramatically higher rates? Sure. But I'm skeptical. These sorts of businesses operate on the skin of their teeth and are always ready to jump ship and move to another operation. The idea that they're playing the long game strikes me as suspicious.
The people who are hoarding AD, however, are those who just have a lot of unspent funds. For me, that's only 4 million AD, but for a number of other people, I'm sure it's quite substantially larger. But these aren't for-profit players, they're just people who have managed to dominate the markets due to having leadership armies or lots of crafting potential or what-have-you.
So basically I see people will play less and pay less.
Well certainly not what devs intended XD
Sadly also people who already quit the game would be part of pay&play less movement... simply won't pay nothing and won't play.
If anyone asked: I'm the guy from play less and pay more choice.
Why?
Since I want to stay competitive enough to enjoy upcoming new contents and it's pretty much my only option left to do so. *sigh* Yeah... I know I'm weirdo here. But glad to know that majority of players share my point of view on situation we're facing.
"You stand as inspiration. You are practically the Avatar of Buttkicking." -Quote towards Minsc "I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
We offered them an olive branch to help fix things. We got discarded like trash. They dont see people, they just see wallets they could pilfer.
Now they have to deal with the consequences.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited September 2015
If they're hoarding billions of AD, then the obvious question is, why wouldn't they sell that AD?
And the obvious answer is, because their AD generation rate FAR outstrips their ability to SELL the AD.
So okay, I concede: all this will do is cause more people to buy up the AD the bots already had. The problem was never the bots ability to generate AD in the first place.
But, again, I also think that the "bots" problem is just a smokescreen, and the real problem is that players are sent in the "wrong direction" of leadership armies.
I think it is against TOS to link a youtube video.... plug this title into youtube and watch it, eye opening.
"Professional Chinese Gold Farmer tells all - Exclusive Interview with Jared Psigoda"
about 8:30 to 9:10. This guy is saying if Cataclysm didn't come out for WOW or it was delayed by 2 months, many people would stop buying gold, so the gold companies run at a loss.
Are Cryptic and PWE trying to make the gold sellers go bankrupt by chasing away their own players?!??
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Could be. They see a surge in the player base at the start of every module after all, so maybe they figure they may just "turn off" the game in the meantime?
No, that makes no sense. The reason the backlog was cleared wasn't a whole bunch of people buying zen, it's a whole bunch of people withdrawing orders to buy zen.
But all that being said, I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything? We both agree people want the most AD for their zen. My point is that, by instituting massive deflation by reducing player incomes, the purchasing power of the zen will also fall, because the exchange rate falls. So if the goal were to get more people to cashBuy zen, then the logic fails.
** First response was me not reading all the way... we are saying the same thing in a different way
Picture shows how it works... change increased gap between fishers and most fish are gone now... but both get their prey...
Could be. They see a surge in the player base at the start of every module after all, so maybe they figure they may just "turn off" the game in the meantime?
...question: Is it really a surge of the playerbase or rather returners and people spending some extra time in the game because they explore the rare bit of not-yet-overdone content? Also: Hasn't maybe the operation the AD (f)arm(y) been the longterm tie-in that kept these people here?
I'm going watch and wait and see if further changes are brought in.
Should nothing change and this stays the same, I won't be able to play more than I currently do due to work, but I'll shift my focus more towards other characters. If we're capped on earning from dungeons/skirmishes/pvp then the only way to earn more than a bare minimum is to try and do the same on other character when time permits.
I'm still stuck with only being able to refine 24k a day in AD anyway, which is really low, but I earn from auction watching and dungeon drops too at times.
I won't spend more than I have previously, might spend less since my faith in this game is getting repeatedly knocked lately.
DPS Rogue | Heal/Buff Cleric
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Comments
but they might remove the auction house at some point, botters are using it to move AD from seller to buyer accounts.
Honestly, I don't expect a whole lot more changes, other than possibly making more things bound, in the near future.
think of it inreuben sammiches(mainly because I am hungry) bob sells reuben sammich that is worth 1$ for 500 peanuts. then he goes and burns down all the peanut fields making a peanut shortage. people want peanuts because they are more useful than reuben sammiches. So they buy a bunch of reuben sammiches for 1 dollar, because they can sell them for 500 peanuts and since there is a backlog on reuben sammiches. bob makes a killing selling reuben sammies because he created the peanut shortage
hope that makes more sense
But all that being said, I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything? We both agree people want the most AD for their zen. My point is that, by instituting massive deflation by reducing player incomes, the purchasing power of the zen will also fall, because the exchange rate falls. So if the goal were to get more people to cashBuy zen, then the logic fails.
"There's still time."
There's hardly any risk for getting banned, and you get more AD for your money...
And this change was being made to fight botters.
How is that logical?
is this whole thing just a mistake of language? They had epic sales of zen
-Translation: "People sold zen for AD"
but they're not going to have major sales of zen
-Translation: "People aren't interested in buying zen with cash."
because the purchasing power of the zen has declined.
Man, people who are good at trading on margin are probably making a killing. The price of zen has flicked between 400 and 440 all day.
while the rest is just [censored].
I'm just divesting myself of the ZAX entirely for now, while I store up refining packs so I can get coupons for when/if I finally decide to purchase zen again.
I'm going to fill my AD into the ZAX, getting at least 3k ZEN will now take a lot of time, and i really doubt that people will continue to buy ZEN...
At some point, the AD price for ZEN will go up again, and i doubt that the backlog will clear at the same 1m AD per day rate by then.
See, here's the thing: why would they be hoarding AD? The goal for them is not to have AD, it's to convert AD to RL cash. It's not the goldspammers, it's the players that are more likely to hoard AD.
The reason why, of course, is the time value of money. For the goldspammers, AD that sits as AD and isn't converted to cash is money they don't have in hand, meaning it's money that can't be used for financing, or otherwise making more money. I suppose that they may very well have reduced/ceased operations when they "Hey guys heads up we're removing AD From leadership lulz" announcement was first released, but then they should "only" have a week's worth of hoarding. And since the demand for AD was super high due to double RP weekend, they likely considered it a substantial risk to miss out on selling off their wares during that period of time.
Is it possible they instead decided to just hold onto AD, thinking that they'd be able to sell it all off at dramatically higher rates? Sure. But I'm skeptical. These sorts of businesses operate on the skin of their teeth and are always ready to jump ship and move to another operation. The idea that they're playing the long game strikes me as suspicious.
The people who are hoarding AD, however, are those who just have a lot of unspent funds. For me, that's only 4 million AD, but for a number of other people, I'm sure it's quite substantially larger. But these aren't for-profit players, they're just people who have managed to dominate the markets due to having leadership armies or lots of crafting potential or what-have-you.
Most enlightening thing from my cynical viewpoit is fairly early in the vid, where we learn that his education was sponsored by the NSA... :^D
...still, I'd like to remind people coming late to vote in the poll on page one...
Well certainly not what devs intended XD
Sadly also people who already quit the game would be part of pay&play less movement... simply won't pay nothing and won't play.
If anyone asked: I'm the guy from play less and pay more choice.
Why?
Since I want to stay competitive enough to enjoy upcoming new contents and it's pretty much my only option left to do so. *sigh* Yeah... I know I'm weirdo here. But glad to know that majority of players share my point of view on situation we're facing.
WELCOME TO MY ART CORNER!
"I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
We got discarded like trash. They dont see people, they just see wallets they could pilfer.
Now they have to deal with the consequences.
And the obvious answer is, because their AD generation rate FAR outstrips their ability to SELL the AD.
So okay, I concede: all this will do is cause more people to buy up the AD the bots already had. The problem was never the bots ability to generate AD in the first place.
But, again, I also think that the "bots" problem is just a smokescreen, and the real problem is that players are sent in the "wrong direction" of leadership armies.
Are Cryptic and PWE trying to make the gold sellers go bankrupt by chasing away their own players?!??
Should nothing change and this stays the same, I won't be able to play more than I currently do due to work, but I'll shift my focus more towards other characters. If we're capped on earning from dungeons/skirmishes/pvp then the only way to earn more than a bare minimum is to try and do the same on other character when time permits.
I'm still stuck with only being able to refine 24k a day in AD anyway, which is really low, but I earn from auction watching and dungeon drops too at times.
I won't spend more than I have previously, might spend less since my faith in this game is getting repeatedly knocked lately.