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Black Ice set bonus

hipranger1hipranger1 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
The set of 3 (belt, cloak, artifact) set bonus says that your powers have "a chance" to deal additional unresistable damage equal to 10% weapon damage.

So, the obvious question, what's the chance -- a 1% chance, a 10% chance, .00001% chance?

I really dislike the power / feat descriptions that dell you you have "a chance" of something happening but do not tell you what that chance is. How can one make an informed decision when no useful information is given?
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Comments

  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    I 100% agree with this. It's a way to stealthily nerf (or buff) powers by changing the probabilities later on down the line.I strongly prefer the total transparency route.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Yep. Plenty of abilities, feats, boons, whatever, have 'a chance' of doing something, making it IMPOSSIBLE for players to make informed decisions. It's bad game design, disregard for the players, and just plain annoying.
  • romotheoneromotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    The tooltip says "has a chance to" because this chance depends on what skill you use it with. Each skill has a proc coefficiency, that is basicly a % number that is used for determining whether or not this "has a chance to" effect is going to activate.

    Sure, a list of these proc coefficiencies would be nice, but there is no way they can make the tooltip display the chance for each and every encounter a class has. Most communities in different games depend on datamined lists, published by players for players.
  • tyaukxtyaukx Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    regarding the "chance" is it a good bonus worth getting? some1 can tell?
  • edited August 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    It's 500K in black ice plus an artifact drop (or going rate at AH. It should have more than a ? chance.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    tyaukx wrote: »
    regarding the "chance" is it a good bonus worth getting? some1 can tell?

    People who completed this set when it first came out indicated that the damage it deals was basically a joke.
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  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    OK, I beleaved, that this set will be good, due to the stat bonus.... I have it now.... and it sucks....
    Can I have my money back? I have bought the purple pick for real money, and I want it back... now.... or I want to hear, how the devs are supposed to fix it.
    Why? It's a bridge of a contract, if you sell something, to obtain something, that will not work as intended, while something else works much better, then inteded....
    If there will be no reaction to this, I will try to get my lawyer to check on this.... a PM would also be nice.
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    I have compared my damage output to other Warlocks with similar gear. Those, who have the Lostmouth set deal up to 23 fold of damage during one dungeon run.
    Excluding deviations, caused by my playstyle, different powers used and different companions - these deviations would never result in such difference.
    After brief research on the internet I found out, that you alrady "fixed" the lostmouth set. This would mean that it is working like intended. The DPS deviation would however mean, that the Black Ice Set is broken.
    I know you cannot return the time I have spend to mine and to refine all the ice, and it is fine. However you used the Black Ice Set as a marketing strategy to Sell me the Hammerstone Runeforge Kit, which I have accuired. Since my set is broken, and I don't see any intention of your development team to fix it - it is a case of unfair business.
    I have already consulted my lawyer, prosecution in the court would be possible, however it should be used as last instance.
    I like the game, and I do not want my money back, since it is meant to support the game maintanance and development. However I could have used the ZEN to buy something else.
    I intend to stay your customer for the future, and yes - I still want to support you financially (a six month extension of VIP is planned for next month). However I don't like it, if someone sells me stuff, which is not working.
    I am pretty sure, a solution to this issue can be found soon. A copy of this message will go to my lawyer to ensure, he is informed.
    Best regards - Karlodun.

    PS: According to US/EU and International Law, there is no need for someone to perform research in the forums to check if the sold item or service will work/perform like stated by official supplier.

    PPS: Mods, pls... don't tell me, that internal Game rules are above the official law, first check this:
    §15 U.S. Code § 45.
  • hmdq#4491 hmdq Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    for no more mistakes take the gripe elol set.
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    It is amazing the number of gamers with personal lawyers on retainer. ;)
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    ...nerd has brother/sister/wife who went to law school? Considering current day opportunity parity I'd say not so really. Also there's plenty of lawyers. And plenty less-than-fully-working ones...

    Also: in principle, IMHO karlodun has a valid point...
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Not to misunderstand me - I could just leave the game, or whatever....
    What I see here, is a common practice: Cryptic sells stuff, which is not working as intended, they are selling/marketing stuff on purpose, which will be outdated very soon.
    Do you remember their action, when you could buy some stuff and you would get Black Ice Bracers for free, while the next mod came out few weeks later and made them absolute?
    I am OK to pay the money, I am OK to play the game and to grind.....
    I am not OK with it, if someone sells me someone is constantly cheating on me....
    About lawyers - I am one by myself. My specialisatioin is international Disputes and Trade Law. However I am working in management and compliance instead now.
    Of what I can see, I can tell you, that what happens here does not comply to all the necessary rules, laws and/or regulations world-wide.
    "15 U.S. Code § 45 - Unfair methods of competition unlawful.....", you could add destruction of property, vandalism and other funny stuff.
    Prosecution would be very difficult if I go alone, but not impossible. If I would do this, I would probably get my money back, plus related expenses... I would harm their finance, but nothing would change.
    I want them to change their practices.
    Most SERVICE PROVIDERS refund money to their customers under such circumstances, often above the paid bill. Why doesn't it apply to the gaming industry? Why do I have to spend my money and time on five different sets, because the seller tells me, that they are good, while they are not?

    Just imagine, someone would offer you "super motoroil" from different companies, and would state that the oil of company A is best for your diezel motor. Then you notice, that your neighbor buys other motor oil, which was created for some totally different purpose, and uses it with his diezel engine. And his car works much-much better. And then you find out, the the Oil, that was sold to you is bad and it will kill your engine.... and then you find out, that most ppl know about this issue, just not you, because you trusted your seller....
    How would you act?
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    Except its not harming YOUR engine. Its not YOUR character, its theirs. Your characters, your XP, your gear, its ALL Cryptics. They can alter it, change it, or delete it, at a press of a button. And they are legally allowed to do so, because you agreed to their terms. You gave them permission to do so. You agreed to it when you clicked the TOS.
  • hmdq#4491 hmdq Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    cryptic need a big class action in our "profits".
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    Yes, sockmunkey, you are right.... but their terms of condition are only binding, if they do not violate any law..... When they started their business, they did it under contemporary law, which means that they have accepted it. They offer their services in US, EU, Russia and elsewhere.

    Why do you think Russia has an extra server? Because of Russian law! And it looks, like in few months EU will get their own server.

    As I told it - I am fine with it, I am fine with changes... I am not fine with my rights being violated.... that's all.
    I know the situation in the game industry, I know about many problems, which they might have. I am OK with it, that I don't have luck in game, I am OK with many other things.... but I am not OK with unfair business practices!
    I know, that they need to work on new content, to keep well paying gamers in (and I pay only little money, maybe $10 every two months). And I know about the problem with bots and other issues....
    I even think, that the "unfair business practice" is not intended.

    What I want is a small change, I want them to respect my legal rights. The amount of ressources needed for this is not big, it can be accomplished very fast.

    I am not the only one, who feels cheated, this is why many ppl prefer to buy stuff from bots, and not directly. I know of similar issues in other companies, as I warked as consultant. Unfair business practices always give you a short run advantage, but the loss of customers leads to a long-tern decline of income. Customers go competitors. In case of online games - bots are the main competitors.

    If you decrease the motivation to buy from bots, they will probably not earn enough. The supply will also decrease, which will have a positive impact on the game economy.

    I am willing to pay for the service, if I receive it. Each time when I spend my money for this game, I buy ZEN and do not go for the scammers. Not because I am afraid they could steal my account, but because I want to support the game. Each time, when I like the game, I make the decision to spend money for it. My total GAMING account per month is around $50. And I play only 3 games.... why does Neverwinter receive only $5 on average? The answer is very simple - I pay according to what I get. The total cost to solve my issue would sum up to a similar amount, but then I would receive some service for which I am willing to pay.

    My question now is: shall I continue to play and buy an additional 6 months premium in few weeks for me and my wife, or the service is not worth it to get my support?

    A change in the policy might lead to temporary income losses, but in long term income should recover.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Preview is your friend.

    This isnt the first game or the first time in this game that things do not work correctly.

    Should the buff the other dps sets? Yes.. of course, even if they nerf lostmouth set some.. they would have to basically make it nearly worthless, to make any of these other ones useful..




  • spqwnspqwn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 43 Arc User
    karlodun said:

    And it looks, like in few months EU will get their own server.

    First time I hear about something like this and I think it's very unlikely...
    About the rest, I agree.
    The next time you see something for sale on the zen market, chances are high that item will be obsolete in a few weeks, lol.

  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    I have received a response of GM. They can't do anything with it now, but they have forwarded the message to dev's.
    WOW a non automated response!!!! This game is not lost!
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    karlodun said:

    OK, I beleaved, that this set will be good, due to the stat bonus.... I have it now.... and it sucks....
    Can I have my money back? I have bought the purple pick for real money, and I want it back... now.... or I want to hear, how the devs are supposed to fix it.
    Why? It's a bridge of a contract, if you sell something, to obtain something, that will not work as intended, while something else works much better, then inteded....
    If there will be no reaction to this, I will try to get my lawyer to check on this.... a PM would also be nice.

    This set does exactly what it says it does. Every time you hit something there is a (small) chance to deal an extra 10% weapon damage. That's an occasional extra 150 points or less of damage to your target. Underwhelming? Totally ... the set bonus on this is all but useless. If you have this set it's for the stat bonus. If you want piles of extra damage, buy a lostmauth set and use this set to refine it up to a higher level. The Black Ice set has never done great damage .. it didn't in Mod 5 when it was a level 60 set and the level 70 version is no different. Don't expect them to change it or refund your money as it does exactly what it says.
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  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    edited October 2015

    karlodun said:

    OK, I beleaved, that this set will be good, due to the stat bonus.... I have it now.... and it sucks....
    Can I have my money back? I have bought the purple pick for real money, and I want it back... now.... or I want to hear, how the devs are supposed to fix it.
    Why? It's a bridge of a contract, if you sell something, to obtain something, that will not work as intended, while something else works much better, then inteded....
    If there will be no reaction to this, I will try to get my lawyer to check on this.... a PM would also be nice.

    This set does exactly what it says it does. Every time you hit something there is a (small) chance to deal an extra 10% weapon damage. That's an occasional extra 150 points or less of damage to your target. Underwhelming? Totally ... the set bonus on this is all but useless. If you have this set it's for the stat bonus. If you want piles of extra damage, buy a lostmauth set and use this set to refine it up to a higher level. The Black Ice set has never done great damage .. it didn't in Mod 5 when it was a level 60 set and the level 70 version is no different. Don't expect them to change it or refund your money as it does exactly what it says.
    the difference is lostmauth's weapon damage gets boosted by buffs. black ice doesnt. even if it did. a small % to do 10% dmg is a waste of a set bonus.
    even worse than the tenebrous chants.
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    The BI set does exactly what it says, but not Lostmouth....
  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    karlodun said:

    The BI set does exactly what it says, but not Lostmouth....

    even nerfing lostmauth to not work with buffs. a chance to proc 10% of weapon damage pales in comparison to 100% chance to proc 100% dmg on crit. i think even naked most of my chars have more than 10% crit chance.
  • darkstarcrashdarkstarcrash Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    This just means the lostmauth set is OP compared to other dps sets. It doesn't mean fraud has been committed.

    I have a SW on which I avoid feats that give a chance of procs based on weapon damage, because it doesn't add much to my dps. Same here.

    You can be annoyed that some feats or powers or gear sets are worse than others, but you can't ask for your money back because you didn't bother to research whether they were worth using.
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    There is no need for an indeep research beyond the advertisement. If a goods or service supplier delivers unclear information to sell something for real money, while something better is obtainable for less costs from same supplier - this is unfair business practice.

    Unclear information has mislead me to an unnecessary purchase. If someone sells me a placebo for the price of real medicine, and says that it will work, even though its placebo - there is no need for me as a customer to research on my own. My responsibility here is limited, because I am not the professional to judge.

    We are not talking about virtual in Game Money, we are talking about real cash, and this is where TOS has its limits. I do not request my money back (yet), I just would like to spend them on something else, then the hammerstone runeforge kit.

    I have some other RL problems right now, but I am not satisfied with the answer I received from GMs. In few days I will respond.

    Until now I see no intention to harm me, behind this strategy (thus it is not really clear if it is fraud or not). However, intentionally or not - this practise is not nice, and as a customer I want to introduce a change. Or do you like the way it works now?
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    So can you clarify. What did you actually pay for that you didn't get?
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  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User

    So can you clarify. What did you actually pay for that you didn't get?

    - Wrong question....

    I bought something, because I thought that I need it, because of their advertisement strategy, while I don't. After receiving the service I purchased I had to realize, that it is bad. As a layman I expected that all sets are equally good in their set bonuses, and the main difference are their stat bonuses. Since lostmouth set gives worse stat bonuses then BI for my SW, I expected that the second will be better. In same way I concluded, that the Vallindra set is best for CWs, and so on... But after buying the hammerstone runeforge kit and mining for 3 weeks and running a dungeon I had to find out, that I can throw it away, bacause it is useless.... I had to conclude, that I was mislead to make a wrong investment, due to unclear information.

    This is what ppl call unfair business practice.

    Ofcourse one might say, that it's my fault to buy something from Cryptic, because of its bad reputation, which I could have found out in the internet.... are you jocking?

    In all cases, where my costomers purchased wrong services or goods from me (the firm I was working at), we did a refund or exchanged for something else. Then we improved the information, and hey... it was a small company of 5 constantly working ppl (and few freelancers) and the firm worked! We had a growing pool of satisfied customers.

    However my business partner created some vague mechanisms to do exactly this: let's disinform to make them buy more from us.... he did it in a perfect way, so that nobody would be able to prove it was intentionally... I left the firm. Seven months later it went bancrupt... He thinks it is my fault....

    I could have used the ZEN for something else, like use ZEX and purchase the Lostmouth set. Which I would like to do now, and under given circumstances, that my BI set is "broken", I would have to spend additional money. However there is no information about their plans on adjustments of the sets (and I swear it is intentionally!). If I go and buy ZEN now, according to information provided in internet and what I have seen myself (that all ppl wear the lostmouth set), if it will receive a huge nerf, or if other sets will be improved - I would have spend my money for nothing.... again.

    And this is not the first time, something like this happens... Another funny example is the black ice ioun stone..... the black ice bracers, .....
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    you exacly got what you paid for, the set does what its written on the tooltip. no more no less.

    you wont have a refund from a car dealer if you buy a twingo with written on top of it 55CV for 50k $ and then find out the car doesnt run like a subaru for the same price.

    the advertisement said exactly: " HAMSTER for tons of money" and you agreed with it.
  • karlodunkarlodun Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Lostmouth set - "Do an additional hit of weapon damage..."
    BI set - "10% of unresistable weapon damage"
    Both with a chance, should give more or less same damage output.... This was my assumption, this is why I went for it....
    Post edited by karlodun on
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    karlodun said:

    Lostmouth set - "Do an additional hit of weapon damage..."
    BI set - "10% of unresistable weapon damage"
    Both with a chance, should give more or less same damage output.... This was my assumption, this is why I went for it....

    Lostmauth doesn't have a "chance" it's on every crit.
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