lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited February 2015
If only we were allowed to equip bags in our personal banks for more space...
I totally agree with the OP - there is far too much refinement fodder in this game and so many of them are redundant. But I don't expect things to change as simplicity is not a suit that Cryptic do well.
Every one of my toons has a bag totally devoted to and stocked up on refining. I'd love to keep it in my bank but yeah...lack of space.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
More refinement types -> more bag space -> more bags needed -> people buy zen to buy bags.
Simple.
We all know that and you seem to be missing the point , the developers stated that one of the reasons they changed the original refinement system was specifically to help save bag space.
2iamannoyingdevil
Developers stated a lot of things. If all those were true we would have played perfect game already. Greed is greed. It's just covered with words people want to hear.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited February 2015
I agree that the refinement system needs a overhaul of Quality of Life changes.
The problems can be summarized as follows:
1 - The system takes up too much bag space.
2 - The UI is clunky and slows down the refinement process. 5 items at a time when you have drop thousands to maximize one item is too slow.
3 - Many sources of RP are not cost effective and thus tend to be overlooked in favor of other methods, that usually involve specific farming at the cost of "normal" gameplay. The best example of this is all the unidentified blue and green gear dropped by mobs that requires to be identified before being used as refinement.
4 - The amount of RP needed to maximize one artifact appears to be excessive, compared to the sources of income we have.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
Even with 5 bags, and some bought with zen, I cannot keep up with space any longer.
Its BEYOND what I can purchase, so thats the real issue. There is too much garbage out there they need to get rid of.
Here is a start, get rid of white pearls, lol!
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Turning away players because a system is needlessly complex loses them more money than they make by selling bag space.
The entire idea behind the Refinement changes for Mod 2 was to make the system easier and more user friendly. And now, over a year later, it's grown to be even more cumbersome and complex, and is at the top of the "Player Dissatisfaction" list.
The thing about bag clutter was probably a lie. One of the whiter ones at the time because it did reduce clutter but the only reason they did it was because they could monetise better. And that's fine up until the point it becomes abusive ie 92 blood rubies please because there is no legit way for you to farm either the ad or the rp values you need. Which is where we ended up.
And that might be partially unintended because as we all know things weren't so bad. They probably felt that they had to do something about the botters despite the fact they made the economy sane for everyone else. Also cryptic know only one other trick to gate progression and that's different currencies. So the endless types of rp items are just another version of that. Its dumb but if you've seen them on stream you shouldn't exactly expect smart plays. "Minor change" increase gwf damage by 20% etc.
Also they have zero issue turning people off. The game is obviously geared towards the big spender.
The OP lists 40 refinement stones.
The number of unique refinement items is well over 100.
Most people want to save dropped RPs for the double RP events so add to this the enchants/runestone/shards worth RP that drop from PvE content:
Rank 3,4,5 of every flavor of enchant (Azure, Radiant, Dark, Silvery, Black Ice, Cruel, Brutal, Savage): 8 x 3 = 24
Rank 3,4,5 of every flavor of Runestone (Arcane, Eldtritch, Empowered, Profane, Training): 3 x 5 = 15
One of kind of weapon and armor enchant shard ( Bilethorn, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Flaming, Frost, Holy Avenger, Lifedrinker, Lightning, Terror, Plaguefire, Vorpal, Barkshield, Bloodtheft, Briartwine, Elven, Fireburst, Frostburn, Negation, Soulforged, Thunderhead).
11 + 9 = 20
There are 59 extra items right there. Add some Rank 2 from leadership barrels and a few Rank 6/7/8 enchants, or a few specialty items not listed and the number of unique RP-items soars past
the maximum possible bag space which is maxed out at 126 SLOTS (Adventurer Sachel + 4 Greater Bag of Holding) for everything else besides profession/assets resources and pets.
Profession Asset bag has 120 slots (even this will be strained in Mod6)
A dedicated Refinement Resource bag would need at least as much.
And shards only stack to 20, so if you're trying to save specific ones (bought or farmed) for enchant upgrading, they take up a lot of space quickly.
Speaking of space taking up. I just managed to buy a greater fey blessing coz I can. It didn't stack with my 2 others. I have no idea how that's even possible... Space is a real pain and I've maxed out all what I can purchase on my main character now . Gonna need to get rid of r3s when mod 6 comes I think...
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited February 2015
DO the Devs really expect us to only keep enchants that we have slotted?
1st - Whenever you the Devs introduce new gear you almost always change the stat bumps, so if we are in a nice shiny set of purple gear the next new gear that comes out probably buffs different stats which may cause us to have to swap out enchants. Is that really the expectation is that if that happens we go the the AH to take a loss or make other players richer because we want to trade enchants that may or may not be the flavor of the month?
2nd - Do the Devs really expect players to just stop what they are doing and start refining whenever enchants drop? That is such a time consuming tedious process that odds are I'll pick up so many different enchants in different level ranges that all my bags will be full before I even get to the 4th encounter of whatever i'm doing.
I'll note that I have 2 dragon hoard bags, a greater bag of holding and the two largest starting adventure bags and they are almost always at capacity not to mention the fact I have more bank slots than I can recall but its a lot that is also perpetually full from saving geear to switch into (say for PVP or PVE) to hoarding gemstones and enchants for maybe another double RP weekend not to mention the endless dyes and vairous transmutes I may want to use at a later date.
Between potions, enchants, RP, gear, profession kits, injury kits, and companions of varying sorts I have to say its definitely about time to start dwindling this stuff down.
Make a new tab like profession assets in the inventory, for RP stones maybe
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
An rp tab is really what they need. There are as many types of refining stones and ranks as there are profession items. At this point there is no reason for them not to have a refinement tab, considering its really the most important currency/item atm.
I would spend my Zen on that if it were an account unlock, character only? yeah considering I'd ahve to buy it 30 times... not going to happen.
I enjoy account wide unlocks, like mounts and the linen clothes are, character only buys I feel are a waste, but that's another story for another thread
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More refinement types -> more bag space -> more bags needed -> people buy zen to buy bags.
Simple.
After reading through all the posts, I was waiting for someone to say basically reply with what you wrote. Everything is there for a purpose and usually has to do with currency.
I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to refine my Artifact necklace. Yes, I can use all the stones I have, but is it better to sell some and refine some? Maybe it's personal preference, though 30k for the sapphire is some easy AD in my pocket.
More refinement types -> more bag space -> more bags needed -> people buy zen to buy bags.
Simple.
After reading through most of the posts, I was waiting for someone to say basically reply with what you wrote. Everything is there for a purpose and usually has to do with currency.
I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to refine my Artifact necklace. Yes, I can use all the stones I have, but is it better to sell some and refine some? Maybe it's personal preference, though 30k for the sapphire is some easy AD in my pocket.
Comments
I totally agree with the OP - there is far too much refinement fodder in this game and so many of them are redundant. But I don't expect things to change as simplicity is not a suit that Cryptic do well.
Every one of my toons has a bag totally devoted to and stocked up on refining. I'd love to keep it in my bank but yeah...lack of space.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
We all know that and you seem to be missing the point , the developers stated that one of the reasons they changed the original refinement system was specifically to help save bag space.
Developers stated a lot of things. If all those were true we would have played perfect game already. Greed is greed. It's just covered with words people want to hear.
The problems can be summarized as follows:
1 - The system takes up too much bag space.
2 - The UI is clunky and slows down the refinement process. 5 items at a time when you have drop thousands to maximize one item is too slow.
3 - Many sources of RP are not cost effective and thus tend to be overlooked in favor of other methods, that usually involve specific farming at the cost of "normal" gameplay. The best example of this is all the unidentified blue and green gear dropped by mobs that requires to be identified before being used as refinement.
4 - The amount of RP needed to maximize one artifact appears to be excessive, compared to the sources of income we have.
Its BEYOND what I can purchase, so thats the real issue. There is too much garbage out there they need to get rid of.
Here is a start, get rid of white pearls, lol!
The entire idea behind the Refinement changes for Mod 2 was to make the system easier and more user friendly. And now, over a year later, it's grown to be even more cumbersome and complex, and is at the top of the "Player Dissatisfaction" list.
And that might be partially unintended because as we all know things weren't so bad. They probably felt that they had to do something about the botters despite the fact they made the economy sane for everyone else. Also cryptic know only one other trick to gate progression and that's different currencies. So the endless types of rp items are just another version of that. Its dumb but if you've seen them on stream you shouldn't exactly expect smart plays. "Minor change" increase gwf damage by 20% etc.
Also they have zero issue turning people off. The game is obviously geared towards the big spender.
The number of unique refinement items is well over 100.
Most people want to save dropped RPs for the double RP events so add to this the enchants/runestone/shards worth RP that drop from PvE content:
Rank 3,4,5 of every flavor of enchant (Azure, Radiant, Dark, Silvery, Black Ice, Cruel, Brutal, Savage): 8 x 3 = 24
Rank 3,4,5 of every flavor of Runestone (Arcane, Eldtritch, Empowered, Profane, Training): 3 x 5 = 15
One of kind of weapon and armor enchant shard ( Bilethorn, Bronzewood, Feytouched, Flaming, Frost, Holy Avenger, Lifedrinker, Lightning, Terror, Plaguefire, Vorpal, Barkshield, Bloodtheft, Briartwine, Elven, Fireburst, Frostburn, Negation, Soulforged, Thunderhead).
11 + 9 = 20
There are 59 extra items right there. Add some Rank 2 from leadership barrels and a few Rank 6/7/8 enchants, or a few specialty items not listed and the number of unique RP-items soars past
the maximum possible bag space which is maxed out at 126 SLOTS (Adventurer Sachel + 4 Greater Bag of Holding) for everything else besides profession/assets resources and pets.
Profession Asset bag has 120 slots (even this will be strained in Mod6)
A dedicated Refinement Resource bag would need at least as much.
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Speaking of space taking up. I just managed to buy a greater fey blessing coz I can. It didn't stack with my 2 others. I have no idea how that's even possible... Space is a real pain and I've maxed out all what I can purchase on my main character now
1st - Whenever you the Devs introduce new gear you almost always change the stat bumps, so if we are in a nice shiny set of purple gear the next new gear that comes out probably buffs different stats which may cause us to have to swap out enchants. Is that really the expectation is that if that happens we go the the AH to take a loss or make other players richer because we want to trade enchants that may or may not be the flavor of the month?
2nd - Do the Devs really expect players to just stop what they are doing and start refining whenever enchants drop? That is such a time consuming tedious process that odds are I'll pick up so many different enchants in different level ranges that all my bags will be full before I even get to the 4th encounter of whatever i'm doing.
I'll note that I have 2 dragon hoard bags, a greater bag of holding and the two largest starting adventure bags and they are almost always at capacity not to mention the fact I have more bank slots than I can recall but its a lot that is also perpetually full from saving geear to switch into (say for PVP or PVE) to hoarding gemstones and enchants for maybe another double RP weekend not to mention the endless dyes and vairous transmutes I may want to use at a later date.
Between potions, enchants, RP, gear, profession kits, injury kits, and companions of varying sorts I have to say its definitely about time to start dwindling this stuff down.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
This would be a huge help.
Ill take anything that helps!
There is so much they could be doing to make us happy, but what we get is "we gave you leadership RP, no go away"
HA!
This. A refining only bag? Take my money!
I would spend my Zen on that if it were an account unlock, character only? yeah considering I'd ahve to buy it 30 times... not going to happen.
I enjoy account wide unlocks, like mounts and the linen clothes are, character only buys I feel are a waste, but that's another story for another thread
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
After reading through all the posts, I was waiting for someone to say basically reply with what you wrote. Everything is there for a purpose and usually has to do with currency.
@OP nice post by the way, I agree.
I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to refine my Artifact necklace. Yes, I can use all the stones I have, but is it better to sell some and refine some? Maybe it's personal preference, though 30k for the sapphire is some easy AD in my pocket.
You don't.
It would take up less bag space, which in turn would help people get away with purchasing less storage space.
Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp... other mmo's use similar tactics.
Do what I do with those "other stones", I use them right away or just chuck them. They aren't worth tying up inventory space.