It is another thing that is going to be difficult to fix. SO does a meager 3% of a TR damage in PvE so any outright nerf to it would need to not affect PvE. I fear they have coded many things without thinking about leaving ways to be flexible for future changes.
I would have really thought when they made the stat changes for mod 6 that they would have done away with the tenacity model for PvP and normalized the two for the most part. Then they could have simply altered specific powers where needed to be different in PvP/PvE. Now we have some hodgepodge mix with compounding factors (Tenancity/DR/sedondary DR, etc) and everything as well as the intent is being obfuscated by the contrived mechanism to handle the variations -- and it is failing.
As I just posted. Making it INSTEAD attack wiht 100% ARP wouldnt change PVE AT ALL.
I agree on this point. I would MUCH rather them remove "tenacity" as a stat, give all players a BASE of the current values we have now (40%) and move from there.
This would actually get PVP players doing PVE again.
The PVP gear SHOULD be "on par" in some respects to the ilvl 137 PVE gear, however nothing will cause a HUGE boost to PVE dungeon runs then allowing PVP players to farm different gear.
I cant tell you how much PVE I used to run for the old sets (pre modules). Now I have no reason to.
Having a "top tier" pvp armor I think is important, but making it the ONLY choice for PVP is a big mistake.
As I just posted. Making it INSTEAD attack wiht 100% ARP wouldnt change PVE AT ALL.
I agree on this point. I would MUCH rather them remove "tenacity" as a stat, give all players a BASE of the current values we have now (40%) and move from there.
This would actually get PVP players doing PVE again.
The PVP gear SHOULD be "on par" in some respects to the ilvl 137 PVE gear, however nothing will cause a HUGE boost to PVE dungeon runs then allowing PVP players to farm different gear.
I cant tell you how much PVE I used to run for the old sets (pre modules). Now I have no reason to.
Having a "top tier" pvp armor I think is important, but making it the ONLY choice for PVP is a big mistake.
I have always found it funny that it seems almost every game has the pvp/pve balance problems and few have figured out that the solution is simple -- design the game around the pvp game play. I know this sounds odd to some but it isn't when you think about it and it leads to a better and more challenging game all around and greatly eases the burden to the designers and the confusion and other problems for the players.
I have always found it funny that it seems almost every game has the pvp/pve balance problems and few have figured out that the solution is simple -- design the game around the pvp game play. I know this sounds odd to some but it isn't when you think about it and it leads to a better and more challenging game all around and greatly eases the burden to the designers and the confusion and other problems for the players.
Except that Neverwinter isn't a PVP-centric game. It's primarily for the PVE.
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0
torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
Except that Neverwinter isn't a PVP-centric game. It's primarily for the PVE.
I think he's saying design the PVP component first, so it's balanced and awesome. Then you can add PVE encounters that scale. ;D
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
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I think he's saying design the PVP component first, so it's balanced and awesome. Then you can add PVE encounters that scale. ;D
Exactly this and it does away with the balancing nightmares that we face today and the focus of the devs becomes more precise and they are not distracted by considering the impact of one change against the other and they don't have to endlessly work the cycle of buff/nerf/buff/nerf one then the other to try and establish some form of a balance between the two (which since they have not been able to do as of yet I would say makes my suggestion even more valid).
I realize it is a PvE focused game but what I say does not draw away from that aspect. It actually simplifies the approach to PvE and lends to more imaginative solutions to providing fun and a challenge without relying on gimmicks of simply inflating damage/defense/etc. Ask yourself why you have to do so much more damage in PvE and you find yourself saying because the enemy has so much more HP, then you ask yourself why they have so much more HP and you find yourself saying to provide more of a challenge. Repeat this process and you will see a pattern and the solution is then so obvious that I am surprised it is never implemented.
Exactly this and it does away with the balancing nightmares that we face today and the focus of the devs becomes more precise and they are not distracted by considering the impact of one change against the other and they don't have to endlessly work the cycle of buff/nerf/buff/nerf one then the other to try and establish some form of a balance between the two (which since they have not been able to do as of yet I would say makes my suggestion even more valid).
I realize it is a PvE focused game but what I say does not draw away from that aspect. It actually simplifies the approach to PvE and lends to more imaginative solutions to providing fun and a challenge without relying on gimmicks of simply inflating damage/defense/etc. Ask yourself why you have to do so much more damage in PvE and you find yourself saying because the enemy has so much more HP, then you ask yourself why they have so much more HP and you find yourself saying to provide more of a challenge. Repeat this process and you will see a pattern and the solution is then so obvious that I am surprised it is never implemented.
Balance focus on PvP first and then working PvE around those mechanics was how Warhammer Online was designed and it is still one of my favorite MMOs I've played, enjoying both PvP and PvE.
I think at this stage, the constant cry of "Neverwinter is not a PvP game" is just a way of giving a pass to poor design. The moment it was decided to have an active PvP component, even building Modules around it, it became a PvP game.
What is needed here is tabula rasa (blank slate, not the ill-fated game), even if it takes time. The rework on stat scaling was ALWAYS going to be problematic in terms of balance, if the math behind the class mechanics wasn't going to be reworked for the new paradigm. To implement those changes without rebalancing the classes is what leads us to where we are now. Realistically, we need to wonder if there are the resources and the will to really do this. I've seen no dedicated statement as to the road map on this game, and instead a stream of marketing pieces.
It was a cute idea to think that the mod release would be made and class balancing just fixed periodically and frequently in the following weeks, but to date instead we still have fixes being made creating more issues that require fixes, likely putting class balancing on the bottom of priority lists, especially with the promise of another new release within the next 3-4 months.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
It's fine if it targets specific things, but I don't think DoT is the most useful "specific thing" to target. Would it be feasible to target CC instead?
edit: It seems that I've joined the choir of just about any other DC around here. Heh.
Except that Neverwinter isn't a PVP-centric game. It's primarily for the PVE.
The difference here though is they MADE specific "feats" and powers specifically FOR the purpose of PVP. Piercing damage had no role in PVE, so why did they add it? PVP. Where is it broken? PVP. So it seems very silly to say that.
Also as mjytresz stated.... its not even around balance currently either its more about match making. There would be MUCH less issues in the game if matchmaking was actually implemented. Not this current bug system we have now.
I would honestly rather opt for ZERO "matchmaking" than the current system that "pretends to do it" because frankly we hardly ever get balanced games anyways AND we sit in que for a LONG time. Atleast before we had insta Que pops. The same imbalance but hey, if they wont remove imbalance id rather have faster ques...
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Warlock Creeping Death nerf
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Cleanse always could remove DoT effects. More importantly in most people's minds, it could also remove CC effects. So you're unhappy about one interaction this makes with your fave class, but DC players are unhappy because it's a pretty significant nerf for them too.
Cleanse always could remove DoT effects. More importantly in most people's minds, it could also remove CC effects. So you're unhappy about one interaction this makes with your fave class, but DC players are unhappy because it's a pretty significant nerf for them too.
Haha... I would gladly let denvald keep his DoT so that I can cleanse chill stacks, roots, dazes, stuns, slows. I can't express this enough...
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Thanks for the answer Gentle, I wasn't expecting it at all.
What bothers me and many other clerics and that because of some programming bugs/mechanics/whatever....Devouted Clerics are losing utility...
Devouted Cleric Heroic Feat tree is utterly insignificant in importance when comparing to other classes....this is really very unpleasing.
Can someting be done about it?
Once again, thanks for a quick reply,
Have fun everyone,
Classes and Balance
[*]Professions: Jewelcrafting: The Personalized Adamant Ring of Regeneration, Personalized Adamant Necklace of Regeneration and Personalized Aberrant Belt of Regeneration have had their stats increased to be equivalent to or better than the Gemmed versions from which they were made
Why not adamant rings of piercing and recovery?
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Rings are all equivalent now. I think on the regen ring you lost stats when you upgraded it for the enchant slot. I don't think the *rings* need further changes.
On belts, regen gains stats when upgraded. Piercing and recovery just gain their slots.
On necks, piercing gains power but loses armor pen when upgraded. Recovery gains power but loses recovery. Regen just gains the enchant slot.
I think it's not unfair that upgrading the belts and necks would give a fairly minor stat boost across the board, because you're choosing these instead of artifact gear for yourself or Loyal gear for your companion. The rings are fine.
thank you for finally fixing the HR's Ancient roots duration issue that I have been requesting for almost 3 months now.. It's very much appreciated.. now if we could get the control bonus and armor pen issue resolved I think the HR's would finally be on the right track to have a correctly working character..
thank you for finally fixing the HR's Ancient roots duration issue that I have been requesting for almost 3 months now.. It's very much appreciated.. now if we could get the control bonus and armor pen issue resolved I think the HR's would finally be on the right track to have a correctly working character..
Classes and Balance
[*][*]Cleanse: This feat has been reworked to removed Damage over Time effects from allies, rather than all possible debuffs.
So this made it to live as stated, despite the fact that every single DC around here pointed out yit should be targeting CC. With no comment from the design team, no less.
This is really disappointing, given that this was a coding rather than a balance issue.
But the specific problem of it not working in pve on roots is getting solved in a couple of weeks
It'll be interesting to see how much faster something like the Phylactery goes. Fairly low risk fight that's been taking a silly long time as the big inert target just sits there, mockingly.
I like PF for solo PvE testing because you have really good indicators for how long it takes without actually timing it.
Comments
As I just posted. Making it INSTEAD attack wiht 100% ARP wouldnt change PVE AT ALL.
I agree on this point. I would MUCH rather them remove "tenacity" as a stat, give all players a BASE of the current values we have now (40%) and move from there.
This would actually get PVP players doing PVE again.
The PVP gear SHOULD be "on par" in some respects to the ilvl 137 PVE gear, however nothing will cause a HUGE boost to PVE dungeon runs then allowing PVP players to farm different gear.
I cant tell you how much PVE I used to run for the old sets (pre modules). Now I have no reason to.
Having a "top tier" pvp armor I think is important, but making it the ONLY choice for PVP is a big mistake.
I have always found it funny that it seems almost every game has the pvp/pve balance problems and few have figured out that the solution is simple -- design the game around the pvp game play. I know this sounds odd to some but it isn't when you think about it and it leads to a better and more challenging game all around and greatly eases the burden to the designers and the confusion and other problems for the players.
Except that Neverwinter isn't a PVP-centric game. It's primarily for the PVE.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I think he's saying design the PVP component first, so it's balanced and awesome. Then you can add PVE encounters that scale. ;D
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
i would agree but we are near to have more pvp maps than dungeons... just saying
Exactly this and it does away with the balancing nightmares that we face today and the focus of the devs becomes more precise and they are not distracted by considering the impact of one change against the other and they don't have to endlessly work the cycle of buff/nerf/buff/nerf one then the other to try and establish some form of a balance between the two (which since they have not been able to do as of yet I would say makes my suggestion even more valid).
I realize it is a PvE focused game but what I say does not draw away from that aspect. It actually simplifies the approach to PvE and lends to more imaginative solutions to providing fun and a challenge without relying on gimmicks of simply inflating damage/defense/etc. Ask yourself why you have to do so much more damage in PvE and you find yourself saying because the enemy has so much more HP, then you ask yourself why they have so much more HP and you find yourself saying to provide more of a challenge. Repeat this process and you will see a pattern and the solution is then so obvious that I am surprised it is never implemented.
Balance focus on PvP first and then working PvE around those mechanics was how Warhammer Online was designed and it is still one of my favorite MMOs I've played, enjoying both PvP and PvE.
I think at this stage, the constant cry of "Neverwinter is not a PvP game" is just a way of giving a pass to poor design. The moment it was decided to have an active PvP component, even building Modules around it, it became a PvP game.
What is needed here is tabula rasa (blank slate, not the ill-fated game), even if it takes time. The rework on stat scaling was ALWAYS going to be problematic in terms of balance, if the math behind the class mechanics wasn't going to be reworked for the new paradigm. To implement those changes without rebalancing the classes is what leads us to where we are now. Realistically, we need to wonder if there are the resources and the will to really do this. I've seen no dedicated statement as to the road map on this game, and instead a stream of marketing pieces.
It was a cute idea to think that the mod release would be made and class balancing just fixed periodically and frequently in the following weeks, but to date instead we still have fixes being made creating more issues that require fixes, likely putting class balancing on the bottom of priority lists, especially with the promise of another new release within the next 3-4 months.
edit: It seems that I've joined the choir of just about any other DC around here. Heh.
The difference here though is they MADE specific "feats" and powers specifically FOR the purpose of PVP. Piercing damage had no role in PVE, so why did they add it? PVP. Where is it broken? PVP. So it seems very silly to say that.
Also as mjytresz stated.... its not even around balance currently either its more about match making. There would be MUCH less issues in the game if matchmaking was actually implemented. Not this current bug system we have now.
I would honestly rather opt for ZERO "matchmaking" than the current system that "pretends to do it" because frankly we hardly ever get balanced games anyways AND we sit in que for a LONG time. Atleast before we had insta Que pops. The same imbalance but hey, if they wont remove imbalance id rather have faster ques...
Warlock Creeping Death nerf
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Cleanse always could remove DoT effects. More importantly in most people's minds, it could also remove CC effects. So you're unhappy about one interaction this makes with your fave class, but DC players are unhappy because it's a pretty significant nerf for them too.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Haha... I would gladly let denvald keep his DoT so that I can cleanse chill stacks, roots, dazes, stuns, slows. I can't express this enough...
Thanks for the answer Gentle, I wasn't expecting it at all.
What bothers me and many other clerics and that because of some programming bugs/mechanics/whatever....Devouted Clerics are losing utility...
Devouted Cleric Heroic Feat tree is utterly insignificant in importance when comparing to other classes....this is really very unpleasing.
Can someting be done about it?
Once again, thanks for a quick reply,
Have fun everyone,
Almondum.
Why not adamant rings of piercing and recovery?
Rings are all equivalent now. I think on the regen ring you lost stats when you upgraded it for the enchant slot. I don't think the *rings* need further changes.
On belts, regen gains stats when upgraded. Piercing and recovery just gain their slots.
On necks, piercing gains power but loses armor pen when upgraded. Recovery gains power but loses recovery. Regen just gains the enchant slot.
I think it's not unfair that upgrading the belts and necks would give a fairly minor stat boost across the board, because you're choosing these instead of artifact gear for yourself or Loyal gear for your companion. The rings are fine.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
armor pen issue is getting solved soon
This is really disappointing, given that this was a coding rather than a balance issue.
By that you mean ar pen resistance just making armor pen 100% useless for all classes so they dont notice a difference?
In pvp armor pen is useless for everyone. But the specific problem of it not working in pve on roots is getting solved in a couple of weeks
It'll be interesting to see how much faster something like the Phylactery goes. Fairly low risk fight that's been taking a silly long time as the big inert target just sits there, mockingly.
I like PF for solo PvE testing because you have really good indicators for how long it takes without actually timing it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia