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A quick question about trickster rogue's...
yomiadebo
Member Posts: 12 Arc User
I wanted to upload this for awhile now since mod 5, been thinking why dont tr's get their cloud of steel changed back to 8 charges and piercing damage notched down abit, I mean cmon they do too much damage and don't need skill to even fight just stay from range and throw daggers in your face till you die i thought they were meant to be a melee class, but that doesn't seem the matter any more...I say this because gwf got their threatening rush nerfed to 3 stacks but tr, gf and paladin radiant rush don't have stacks seriously?! I just wanted to make this to see if any other didnt want to put it straight onto the forums 
, gimme some feed back on this 
, gimme some feed back on this Post edited by yomiadebo on
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Not crazy about the 3 charges on GWF Threatening Rush either.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Dmg from SO proc should be based on how far was the target from you. With +100% dmg at melee range (up from 75%) to 10% at max melee range (down from 75%). This would make it a lot more challenging while keeping the risk - reward ratio. Basically if you stand close it's easier to find you and to dps you with various aoe abilities.
Plenty of encounters need some dps buff as well. People use CoS because you cant kill sh.t with encounters. Even CW deals more dmg with encounters and it's a control class + ranged and with shorter cd.
Because a charge-based CoS is totally unsuited for any content, not PvP, nor PvE, after the context of changes that happened around mod5. Besides, getting the charges back as WELL as getting rid of SO is a double nerf. IMO if the CoS goes back to charges, then SO has NO problems whatsoever.
CoS should be a finishing move, or something to use in between rotations after you've dodged away. My TR feels like a range dps, just like my GWF was when they could spam threatening rush chasing CWs around. I usually try to not spam CoS with my TR, but sometimes I get lazy coz it's so easy to do, and I can do the same thing in PvE against a boss. So yes it would hurt PvE side, but it's not a bad nerf, it can still be used to kill off some adds in range. It'll turn PvE from super easy mode, to a mode that requires a little bit more skill.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
I use cos to force targets into melee. If they don't want to eat duelists they can eat cos. I am sure I play way different than others but I see most TR encounters and at wills as tools to control enemy movement in PvP. Go there you get cos, go over there and it is smoke bomb slow, daze and damage, come here and it is DF from stealth. CoS is an awesome tool.
From a PvE point of view, TR can't always fight in close combat in mod6. There is some moment where you are more than happy to stay far from melee and rely on CoS to avoid undodgeables executions of your 80k+ HP TR under ItC, even if for most build it mean a reduced DPS. With the same charge system as before, it wouldn't be possible, because it was reloading slowly. This would force TR to fight in melee during fight where fighting in melee would mean being killed nearly immediately.
I see you are here to cause trouble... because your class got nerfed.
Talk about your class being buffed and stop trying to nerf others.
Case closed
Finally someone with some sense. I personally feel that all the classes should receive some generous buffs and quality improvements to the needed areas and that large numbers of nerfing requests usually harms classes. Sometimes a nerf is needed but most of the time the nerf is either unneeded or harmful. When a whole bunch of people start screaming for nerfs, usually this results in the devs trying a little too hard to appease them and the class gets nerfed too much or in the wrong ways. Just look at what happened to oppressive darkness and shadow of demise for example.
Also here are some buff suggestions I've got in mind. I'm not able to offer as many good buffs for the other classes since I don't know as much about them. I'm sure someone's got some good ideas:
Give control wizards more high quality aoes, right now, the rogues seem to be able to rival the controllers when it comes to aoe powers. Rogues do have controller as a secondary role but I still think that at the very least the class actually labeled as a controller should be better at controlling than us rogues.
Either change the mechanics of or get rid of all the new mod 6 rogue powers except oppressive darkness and replace them with really high quality well designed creative powers that actually have uses. Honestly, I have yet to see anyone that actually likes those dysfunctional boring powers. I'm unsure if anybody from the other classes uses their new powers but if there are any that are as thoroughly useless as the rogue's new powers, get rid of those or modify them too.
Buff oppressive darkness so it can compete with the other rogue passives.
Make it so shadow of demise works on all targets hit from stealth again.
Fix the scoundrel feat tree and make it more viable so it can compete with the other two. Make improvements to the executioner tree and the saboteur tree.
Unnerf stealth duration for the rogue. If this was nerfed as an attempt to make permasteath harder or to reduce the number of permastealth rogues, this was an epic fail. This mod has made the conditions perfect for permastealth rogue numbers to increase and they obviously have. The stealth nerf also hurts the other build types and gives permastealth builds the upper hand. The crazy damage the pve monsters deal, the reduced survivability, the broken healing potions, the stealth nerf, and the other nerfs have caused many rogues to turn to permastealth and has reduced our classes' variety.
Increase shocking execution's damage and increase the damage or nastiness of the other dailies slightly. Since this is a daily, it should be able to hit harder than it does, I'm not asking for a huge increase just something to set it apart from high damage encounters. Make the other classes' daily powers a bit nastier too.
Make really good quality level 70 armor sets and lots of them for all classes and get rid of this level 60 junk. Its hard to specialize with the current armor sets and the stats they grant are all over the place. We need some variety.
For the love of god, somebody fix the movement speed stat for all classes. Everyone is painfully slow and battles would be more fun and run smoother if movement speed is easier to stack.
Fix the warlocks. I don't know a ton about this class but I hear that the lifesteal changes messed them up bad. I've also heard that warlocks are at the bottom of the heap right now. If this is the case, give them some awesome buffs and reworks to the needed areas.
There's one area that I can't decide if tanky classes should be nerfed in or not. Tanks should not be able to rival strikers in damage but should be extremely difficult to kill. I can't help but notice when a tank instakills somebody or cookie cuts them to death like a striker and still has crazy defensive abilities and tons of hp. If their damage gets nerfed, make them even more tanky.
Give the hunter rangers more variety with their feat trees and paragon paths. They seem to have a 1 path to rule them all thing going and the other paths should be made more viable.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
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Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
There is no such thing as permastealth TR unless the TR is MI and only using feated glooming cut. Any other at-will and you will be out of stealth in less than 3 hits. You can prolong stealth by not attacking, but you can no longer stay in stealth and deal constant damage, with the exception of glooming cut which requires you to be within melee range.
I'd be surprised if anyone tries to run with their old level 60 gear right now against good level 70 gear players. The HP difference is huge as well as the other stats which makes the old level 60 gear quite obsolete in pvp and even for pve as the level 70 gear gives a lot more stats than the level 60 gear set bonus could ever give.
Yes, it'd be nice if they fixed the cap stone Shadowy Demise and made scoundrel a bit more viable. It's been over 2 months now and they have not acknowledge if SD is working as intended stealth nerf or bugged. They left SD bugged for +2months after they "fixed" it two days after Mod5 launch because it was way OP for stacking.
Unfortunately I do not see them working on fixing the issues with TRs and will most like it nerf it more than fix any power that is not working properly. So far Sabo tree is the only one where all feats are working as advertised.
I'd beg a differ on that permastealth statement. There are tons of permastealth rogues on here right now and I've even seen a pvp video from mod 6 of somebody named S1inger who was permastealth but used cloud of steel as their main. There was no gloaming cut on his bar though I have seen other rogues do that to great effect.
I don't remember saying that people were using the level 60 gear. I was referring to how level 70 areas grant level 60 gear instead of level 70 gear. The new level 70 gear while better than level 60 gear, leaves a lot to be desired too.
True, most people will take a CW as a controller most of the time but most of the CW's aoes seem pretty weak to me and their single target attacks are much more threatening. I'm not saying that rogues are better at aoes than the CW but they are surprisingly controllery and I think the CW should have a few more really good aoes or/and some powers that aren't technically aoes but damage multiple foes. Perhaps a better wording than aoe(since some of our multifoe hitters aren't quite aoes) would have been that rogues can rival a controller at cc'ing or damaging groups of foes when played in certain ways. That smokebomb we have is not our only viable aoe. I'm not as fond of our other aoe powers but I have seen them used to good effect. A very controller-like sort of thing we can do to a crowd is stealth, dazing strike multiple people, wrack up some damage, smoke bomb when daze is about to wear off, wrack up more damage, then add in whatever you have that would work for this situation, then add in a multifoe hitting daily if you can. You could also throw in your artifact power if it deals with multiple foes for good measure at any point during this process. If you want to go aoe crazy, you could add path of the blade in too but since I don't want all 3 of my encounters to be multifoe hitters I'd use that slot for something better like lashing blade or shadow strike. So we may not have very many true aoes, I misspoke before, but we are pretty darn controllery when played in certain ways. I can give my allies quite a lot of breathing room in pve if I use these two dazes and hold you up considerably in pvp. We are armed with slows too and while it may not be an aoe or a multiple target power, cloud of steel paired with the elemental fire weapon power that slows people, can be used to slow a bunch of people down quickly.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
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Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
I think in PvP it takes far more skill for a TR to function as a true crowd controller than it does for a CW to do the same. But it can be done very effectively. Dazing strike on multiple opponents and smoke bomb as area-denial. Can chain these to great effect.
A tool that I do use to great effect in PvP and PvE... is Path of Blades. It will show me where a perma TR is; it has killed a player who was running away; it really does a number on mobs who are close and have been slapped with an SB.
I agree... with your statement. Most perma TRs are looking for single-target control, but it will never be as easy as hanging a toon pinata up for others to smack.
I have considered using path of the blades in pvp to find people but I think I may need other powers more. Path of the blades works well for finding rogues but I'm generally much more worried about HRs and CWs. If my opponents are too tough for my lashing blade, maybe then I'd use a different power but suspect I'd need a another cc, impossible to catch, or shadowstrike more than path of the blade. I personally have found that its not particularly difficult for me to step out of range of path of the blade pelt them with some daggers and then jump lunge in with dazing strike. Then again, this might just be because I have not encountered a skilled path of the blade user in pvp so far. I can see why this power would be excellent for finding permastealth rogues though.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The interesting thing is... that they believe that it should not harm them due to ITC.
The way I have built my TR... when any of my encounters hit... my stealth bar immediately fills. The one problem I have is being hit before the I get a chance to stealth... it knocks my stealth bar down a bit. I have even developed a way to solo cap a NPC filled node... without dying... without Shadow Strike.
I run ITC/SB/Dazing strike with DF and COS as at wills. I rely on my encounters for cc/defense and my at wills for damage. I like it because if they get close they get daze>DF and if they try to stay back they have to eat cos.
It is a lot fun directing traffic as it were to get three right in that dazing strike aoe cone.
Tbh I play my TR like my cw. They really are similar. So I guess I focus a lot on controlling opponent movement. Smoke bomb is so much like icy terrain but icey terrain is so much better. Self targeted aoe cc is the ****. You know when an opponent is commiting to charging at you aoe>dodge toward them and they go right into the SB/icy terrain. Free ca at their rooted/dazed back for a sec.
As far as finding another TR in stealth I really rely on instinct. Between what the status of the node is, what encounters they are using, and where our relative HP's are, can kinda guess exactly where they are.
I love seeing that there are other TRs who run unorthodox builds.
I like seeing people use odd TR builds as well. Mine aside from being played with the "dazed till you die tactic" and the high damage and high movement speed, also has some weird ability scores. I decided to stack strength, charisma, and wisdom and leave dex alone(though dex will still pass 20 counting my belt). So far, this build is working out well. The wisdom is to help me with my ccs since I use as many as I can get away with without reducing my damage. I also have it because of the control resistance which I figured would pair nicely with the halfling racial bonuses.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
I would like to see how that works. I am, as I said, fascinated at the creations we can come up with. I may have to start playing on preview to work on a ME specific build.
That is like my ITC/Fey Thistle/Avalance paradise right there.
My build is a halfling non permastealth MI Rogue with the executioner feat tree. I'm still working out some of the features of my build but so far, the damage output and survivability tops that of my first rogue. I'm still trying do decide how much armor pen I will need and how much crit strike. I've heard that 60% is the armor pen you need for pve but since this build was designed for pvp, I'm still trying to figure out how much I will need for that. Crit strike is something I was not planing to stack originally but have decided that to max out my damage, I will need at least some since I am going to try to put as much into crit severity as possible. I also am going to take the lostmauth set to help with damage, that and that lostmauth horn has the perfect stats for me. This character is relatively new and currently undergeared but even so, she's out doing my other rogue. I'm going to try to play this build as aggressively as possible but so far I've been failing back on defensive tactics to survive the people that outgear me more than I'd like. I'm thinking about slotting oppressive darkness just to take advantage of the slows you can get with the elemental evil weapon add on powers as well as slotting the one that gives cloud of steel slow effects to make it easier to chase people down. I've been thoroughly annoyed by how much investment it takes to get a halfway decent movement speed and I may end up stuck being slower than I'd like for a long time. For my other 3 artifacts, I wanted to pour as much into control bonus as possible without sacrificing damage but most of the artifacts granting control bonus don't grant as much of the other stats I'd like. My solution might be to take artifacts granting me armor pen, crit strike, and power and filling my offense slots with mostly silvery enchantments. It would be a sort of poor man's control bonus since a high recovery would mean that instead of each of my dazes being super long, I could just use the dazes insanely often and get the desired result. My dazes will still end up slightly longer than is normal of most rogues thanks to the wisdom. I'm thinking that for a while, I will be stuck using mostly dark and radiants until I get a complete set of artifacts that grant the same stats. Then I can switch out most of my offense slots for silverys. It looks like I'm going to be doing some serious experimenting.
I've also decided to stack deflect instead of hp not because it is necessarily better, but because I have an advantage when it comes to stacking deflect. My racial bonuses grant extra deflect, my stacked ability scores are granting deflect not hp, TRs get 75% deflect severity, and It will probably be less harmful to my build to take the deflect boons over the crit strike boons than it is to take the hp boons over the power boons. On top of that silverys for deflect are quite a bit cheaper than radiants for hp. I will end up with some hp from my gear but for the most part, I'm not planning to stack it very much. I may change my mind later but only time will tell. For my armor enchantments, I'm debating on whether to go soulforged or elven battle. I don't like the weaker forms of the elven battle but I really like the stronger ones so I'll probably start with a soulforged and save up to get switched to a more expensive form of the elven battle.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Courage Breaker is a bit of a gap closer... as is VP. I use CB to my greatest enjoyment.
That is exactly how I use my SB and PoB... smoke, PoB then stealth and DF... usually causes a quick death. Which is boosted when my stealth meter is not full. I am a sadistic POS. I have also used CB before I drop smoke and PoB... I love watching people with CC immunity try to run and hop away... lol.
Like a flopping fish on a dock.
CB gets you in close, enter ITC and just stand there. Most of the damage stacks from sponging the hell out of reflecting the opponent's attack, knowing you can't be knocked back or hurt with the 90% debuff. It's pretty fun watching them kill themselves.
I shudder at the thought of the amount of hate PMs you are probably currently receiving with that setup. *shudders*
To be a fly on the wall.