Ok kain, I have run with you before in game so I know you can at least hold your own. When I get back from vacation I will pm you in game and you can run CN with myself and some of my friends, some of which have 10k gs and we can all use 10k gs chars. Alternatively, we can do epic dv. Either way, I can show you some full 10k gs groups with no weapon or armour enchantments who can complete content which I often see people complaining about not being completable with less then 12k gs. 10k gs does not equal scrub, it means a player has 10k gs. That 10k gs player could use hrimnir gear to boost their gearscore, but I would rather use blue rings then hrimnir. A higher gearscore does not necessarily mean a player has constructed their character properly, as I know a lot more people who have badly messed up their character who have high gearscore then those who have badly messed up their character with a low gearscore. Heck, I know a 22k gs CW with 8k crit and 4k power who swears that stacking crit is the most Important thing in building a good char.
Ohh my dear i dont deny they can, first off all CN and T2's comes out in beta, when having 10-11k gs was something. i remember those times, problem is, can u do that as fast as party of 16k+ ( im not even saying this party must have more than no cw, coz they dont need to)? Coz, unfortunetly, tiamat zerg is 10% strat, 10% comunication and 80% dps race. Going into tiamat as 10k gs scrub (im calling them scubs only in terms of this raid) is either arogance or will to be carry. And i respect rest of ur arguments, i still cant understand why 20k gs tr would have 3 heart artifacts on legend (since he had manies to buy it and refine, i just cant understand why would he not choose diffrent, better artis), but from the other side, can 10k player build his toon correctly, not only in terms of stats, but also feats and powers? It happens im changing my feats in 1 mod for like 3-4 times, coz i messed up somthing, coz somthing find out to be better. That said, i can put all my eq down on any of my classes in signature, just to 10k gs and go with u, i ensure u, i wont be best player in CN who ever played this dung in terms of DPS, but i will do as good as im doing on those toons now, in terms of primary functions of those toons. BUt why can i do it? Only coz of my experience. I said this many times, i have nothing against low gs player, evry1 started the other day, i just dont want to see them in places they dont belong. We all know its rly hard to play in eLoL without good gf and dc, boss blast ataks hit for 10k, lava hits for 6-12k, weaker toons can be take down in 2 hits, and eLol is 13k+, im almost sure her momy is stronger.
And yes, 10k gs dont means scub, otherway i would use it as synonims, not 10k as adjective. 10k gs means player spend relativly low amount of time on this toon, or didnt develop it while playig many days, each option has bad consequences, either he is not exp enought, or he is not expd at all.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited December 2014
I think a point people have missed, is soon it won't matter. Tiamat being a what is, isn't something you run for just for fun. You run to get your toon through to get the gear/boons. I don't plan on pushing extra toons through (I've got 2 more I could do, but I've had enough). I suspect that my view is going to be common, "Done, not going back". Soon all that will be left is the people who can't do the job (I don't really care why). And the success odds will degrade drastically. Compare this with Dread Ring, which I've push 6 toons through, and may do a 7th.
If you will check, notice the instance number when you run. The number of Tiamat instances has dropped noticeably, showing the drop off in players running it.
Tiamat cannot be compared to dungeons because in dungeons, there is NO timer. If CN takes you 3 hours to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hours, who cares... there's no timer. How a person can miss the timer portion of Tiamat is completely beyond me, but that's for another day. Tiamat is a pure DPS race so DPS matters. By the time you get to **a*** head, you typically have 1.45 minutes for the attack heads phase. If on the 1st attack heads phase, you cannot get red down to at least 50% ***without*** killing the black or green, the possibility of winning is very low given white takes a lot of time. On top of that, if you don't have proper defense, you'll spend more time asking for rezzes than doing DPS; if you don't have proper armor pen, your DPS will also be low.
If on the 1st attack heads phase, you cannot get red down to at least 50% ***without*** killing the black or green, the possibility of winning is very low given white takes a lot of time.
Not exactly true. If you are fast on Clerics you can get a 4th round win even if you don't make it to red 1st round. In all honesty I have not seen that since they changed instance-swapping. Saw a few 4th round wins when we could still do Tactical.
How many 4th rounds? How many 4th rounds seen, succeed? I've earned 109 Linus favors so far, and have seen ZERO (0) fourth rounds -- victory or failure.
4-5. As I said a lot less likely now as the zerg will see poor performance 1st round and sit at the campfire. Umm let me count...108 Linu. At this point a 4th is unlikely as you can't build solid groups and the PUG, as I said, will quit at the first sign of problems. 4th round happens when the clerics are fought flawlessly or close to it. Which is more about aggro and control than DPS. Zergs are so focussed on the DPS race that they rarely perform well here.
I don't spend time complaining about 10k players interfering with my time schedule. This complaining is nothing but selfish complaining by people too snobbish to look beyond their noses and realise that there is more to the world then themselves and their selfish desires.
I don't complain to their faces, but I do despise them for joining. It is more selfish to not bother with any of the other content and wanting better gear at the expensive of your team. If we could form our own groups or even party then at least we can have some organisation, but not it's full of pugs who I have no idea if they have a clue or not, and if there's a 10-12k gs person, the chances are they have a rubbish understanding of their character and the game that they need to work on to improve as well as the rubbish gear. Tiamat is a dps race, there's a very low margin for low dps, when you're zerging, the debuffs that don't stack are redundant and you're just left with low dps. Something that was done because pugs can't be trusted to debuff every head at the same time. That's with standar pugs, let alone someone who has barely played the game. This isn't beta. 10k doesn't mean you're at a respactable level anymore, it means you've barely reached level 60 and have a high chance of having little (if any) dungeon experience. So how about those people actually get a full set, get some semi reasonable enchants, boon up a little bit and then enter instead of being entitled (or ignorant, which would be cryptics fault) jerks wanting to be carried.
I'm not a snob, but that doesn't mean one is allowed to push their luck and enter with gear that clearly shows that they are highly unlikely to contribute much. If they knew what they were doing it shouldn't take long to do a chunk of the existing lower level content. But no, they're apparently too lazy and super skilled to make up for their lack of patience to play anything but the top level stuff. A single player doesn't have much of an impact so why not be that player who doesn't pull their weight?
If mod 4 and mod 5 had been a single module, it would have been great. But mod 4 felt lazy with the zones since it was just adding a dragon and some mobs to already existing areas and mod 5 was just a zone and a single heroic encounter without adding a skirmish or a dungeon.
I saw many 15k+ GS DC, who did not use buff/debuff powers in the fight against the heads, but healing and/ or dmg. How comes, that all ppl argument with the legendary '10k HP buff/ debuff DC'. He would use the right powers, if he is in a decent guild or a toon, but if he is a toon or a member of a good guild, he will have 10k GS for a few days, or less.
Succed in tiamat is much more a matter of buff/ debuff than anything else.
So often too low GS player make party fail because they lack in both survivability and use bad skill.
On the same, highest GS player provide also fail because they are mainly builded for PVP where debuf need to be short and damage need to rise quick to max lvl. The advantage that they get vs low GS is they do higher damage and often use spellplague enchant. but when too much of them things often come harder too, because too low buff/debuff and often using same at same lvl.
What making much more party easier is mainly 14-16k gs player where you get more variety and you get much more luck ended with a couple of buff/debuff player using differents skill.
By just taking CW case, how many CW MOF/renegade do you find vs CW stormspell/thauma.ratio probably less than 1 / 50. but a single MOF renegade if he is able to stay alive can practicaly make a full group succed with all the debuf he can provide.
Thinking of pure damage vs debuf have not same impact when you think solo / 5 party run VS 25 party run. in a 25 % party run providing 10% more damage to group give same result as upping your own damage to 250 %.
And that what i saw during all the run i made. All success came with high debuf party, all fail came with low debuf party. (i mainly use my ice dagger to measure it)
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Comments
Ohh my dear i dont deny they can, first off all CN and T2's comes out in beta, when having 10-11k gs was something. i remember those times, problem is, can u do that as fast as party of 16k+ ( im not even saying this party must have more than no cw, coz they dont need to)? Coz, unfortunetly, tiamat zerg is 10% strat, 10% comunication and 80% dps race. Going into tiamat as 10k gs scrub (im calling them scubs only in terms of this raid) is either arogance or will to be carry. And i respect rest of ur arguments, i still cant understand why 20k gs tr would have 3 heart artifacts on legend (since he had manies to buy it and refine, i just cant understand why would he not choose diffrent, better artis), but from the other side, can 10k player build his toon correctly, not only in terms of stats, but also feats and powers? It happens im changing my feats in 1 mod for like 3-4 times, coz i messed up somthing, coz somthing find out to be better. That said, i can put all my eq down on any of my classes in signature, just to 10k gs and go with u, i ensure u, i wont be best player in CN who ever played this dung in terms of DPS, but i will do as good as im doing on those toons now, in terms of primary functions of those toons. BUt why can i do it? Only coz of my experience. I said this many times, i have nothing against low gs player, evry1 started the other day, i just dont want to see them in places they dont belong. We all know its rly hard to play in eLoL without good gf and dc, boss blast ataks hit for 10k, lava hits for 6-12k, weaker toons can be take down in 2 hits, and eLol is 13k+, im almost sure her momy is stronger.
And yes, 10k gs dont means scub, otherway i would use it as synonims, not 10k as adjective. 10k gs means player spend relativly low amount of time on this toon, or didnt develop it while playig many days, each option has bad consequences, either he is not exp enought, or he is not expd at all.
If you will check, notice the instance number when you run. The number of Tiamat instances has dropped noticeably, showing the drop off in players running it.
Not exactly true. If you are fast on Clerics you can get a 4th round win even if you don't make it to red 1st round. In all honesty I have not seen that since they changed instance-swapping. Saw a few 4th round wins when we could still do Tactical.
I don't complain to their faces, but I do despise them for joining. It is more selfish to not bother with any of the other content and wanting better gear at the expensive of your team. If we could form our own groups or even party then at least we can have some organisation, but not it's full of pugs who I have no idea if they have a clue or not, and if there's a 10-12k gs person, the chances are they have a rubbish understanding of their character and the game that they need to work on to improve as well as the rubbish gear. Tiamat is a dps race, there's a very low margin for low dps, when you're zerging, the debuffs that don't stack are redundant and you're just left with low dps. Something that was done because pugs can't be trusted to debuff every head at the same time. That's with standar pugs, let alone someone who has barely played the game. This isn't beta. 10k doesn't mean you're at a respactable level anymore, it means you've barely reached level 60 and have a high chance of having little (if any) dungeon experience. So how about those people actually get a full set, get some semi reasonable enchants, boon up a little bit and then enter instead of being entitled (or ignorant, which would be cryptics fault) jerks wanting to be carried.
I'm not a snob, but that doesn't mean one is allowed to push their luck and enter with gear that clearly shows that they are highly unlikely to contribute much. If they knew what they were doing it shouldn't take long to do a chunk of the existing lower level content. But no, they're apparently too lazy and super skilled to make up for their lack of patience to play anything but the top level stuff. A single player doesn't have much of an impact so why not be that player who doesn't pull their weight?
If you are not 15k+ GS then gear up you are not mean to fight tiamat yet
So often too low GS player make party fail because they lack in both survivability and use bad skill.
On the same, highest GS player provide also fail because they are mainly builded for PVP where debuf need to be short and damage need to rise quick to max lvl. The advantage that they get vs low GS is they do higher damage and often use spellplague enchant. but when too much of them things often come harder too, because too low buff/debuff and often using same at same lvl.
What making much more party easier is mainly 14-16k gs player where you get more variety and you get much more luck ended with a couple of buff/debuff player using differents skill.
By just taking CW case, how many CW MOF/renegade do you find vs CW stormspell/thauma.ratio probably less than 1 / 50. but a single MOF renegade if he is able to stay alive can practicaly make a full group succed with all the debuf he can provide.
Thinking of pure damage vs debuf have not same impact when you think solo / 5 party run VS 25 party run. in a 25 % party run providing 10% more damage to group give same result as upping your own damage to 250 %.
And that what i saw during all the run i made. All success came with high debuf party, all fail came with low debuf party. (i mainly use my ice dagger to measure it)
Low GS does not equal idiots
Still
A SoT setup would be helpful
UrLord