An ICD would cripple Scoundrels in PvE. Just lower Daze duration against players like they have with some stuns etc.
i agree with icd breaking our class but not sure about reduced durations. reduced duration might break the entire chain-daze thing and make it harder or impossible to follow a critical daze with a flurry or dazing strike. main point in the critical dazes is to give us time to follow-up with more attacks. dazing strike and smoke bomb just need to last as long as necessary to flurry someone.
i don't benefit from skullcracker's daze though since i always use an encounter that already dazes on a shorter cooldown so that 1 doesn't bother me.
I were strictly talking about PvP, not PvE. Sorry for the missunderstanding.
EDIT:
Wrong. GWF-class should do AoE DPS with TANK and, depending enterely on what the player wants, do more damage OR being more tanky. Seems like players still do not get that the GWF-class is the middle point between TR-class AND GF-class
Always joking man, is their on your view even a point where gwf should not be the best at, i mean by reading all your post GWF should be the best defense, the best single target, the best aoe target. problably by searching a little should also be the best range and the best control
On the contrary!
GWF should be tank with "somewhat" more dps than a GF to defend other classes as a Defender main class.
CW should have competitve dps with some control and you can go full control and utility with Oppressor!
Full melee dps? That should be a TR or a Monk later!
Without being familiar with D&D lore regarding the GWF class, common sense says that if a guy swings a sword big enough to decapitate 3 people at once from the waist up he should be kinda strong in the damage dealing department.. dont you think ?
This is a GWF with Unstoppable as the class should be
Without being familiar with D&D lore regarding the GWF class, common sense says that if a guy swings a sword big enough to decapitate 3 people at once from the waist up he should be kinda strong in the damage dealing department.. dont you think ?
This is a GWF with Unstoppable as the class should be
But that is your own lack of UNDERSTANDING about the matter due you are not that good with english yet, maybe, if this were typed on french, surely you would have a better understanding of this matter. But, that point aside, the GWF-class as Crush himself "explained" is a hybrid of these both classes, but oriented to AoE Damage instead of Single Target Damage (STD), so, if the GWF goes for DPS, he or she should be able to catch TR/CW/SW classes in damage terms or if the GWF goes tanky, he or she should be able to survive and aggro almost as good as a GF does. If the GWF goes full hybrid, he or she should be able to cover the space between both roles. As easy as that. The same goes (or should go) for all other classes, period.
As explained by crisand as you are saying GWF is an hybrid class. An hybrid, doesn't mean it has to be on the same lvl as other class on their strong point. it mean if you do less damage than the best, in exchange the weak point of the other class are less on your. that the main deffinition of an hybryd. Even if you choose DPS path you still have a far better defense than A DPS CW have. that the point where your reasoning is wrong (you want to still get the strong point without taking the weak point). And on that trust me the defense lvl of a gwf is far better than a CW one even in the destroyer path. It same as your other post where you were asked a defense lvl that nearly only the defensive path of GF can get.
SO asking for the same dps in aoe (that is supposed to be CW main point) than dps CW . i'm not agree, GWf dps path being same mono or even sliglty higher DPS as DPS CW, yes i'm agree, maybe GWF is tankier but you have less range that balance thing.
Maybe i have less knowledge than you in GWF part, but the fact that i'm playing both i'm in far better position than you qq about wanting to be as strong as the dps path of the aoe dps class of the DPS storm spell (vs the debuf MOF, opresseur that probably do 3/4 less damage and beaten all of time in dps by DPS GWF) and that without taking of course the 2 second casting time of each spell, or the low survivability, or the fact that main damage are over time and need time to activate. You are able to check the damage but have you ever check too that CW is often also the first on the diying count.
The fact thet 95 % of CW player play a thauma stormspell, is a thing that make people feel like CW is too powered becasue 95% play the dps, dps, ddps CW. Give CW a defense lvl more on the line with any other class have and yes i would be the first to claim that other class should then have a more on the line damage than CW even GWF.
And PS in this Post about TR vs Cw, maybe there is some adjust to do on TR (as they did on CW ) but on other hand i can understand that TR without stealth, they are just slightly better in defense term than CW (deflect part) it still not suffisant alone to be balanced in PVE so they need extra control or an other mechanism to survive (i don't care they do same dps or even better as CW if it balanced). For PVP part it the dev job to make some feat work with less time if they are too powerfull in pvp part like they did on CW with different time of control in pvp or pve) ex : stealth drop twice speed while flagued in pvp ( lvl may be adjusted more or less or can also make power that make rogue gain stealth give only 50% while flagged in PVP can also be a possibility.)
1 no you can't goes as high as the other class. As same exemple as you are giving, if you choose tank path, yes maybe you can be as tanky as a GF tank that choose dps path, but you can't be as tanky as a GF tank that choose the tank path and that mainly what you are asking. you can't take a general path and become as strong as someone who already choose a specific path and continue in the same. else no need to have 7 class,.
2 CW is not mainly a control class it is mainly an AOE class, more than half power of CW are mainly AOE power (only ice dagger, ray of enffeblement and the 2 first at will canno't be transform in aoe spell)while most of GWF power are mainly single target. And control part is mainly pushed in opressor. ANd one thing at first part while control was upped player come here to complain to drop control on CW.
3 not enough
4 the first CW CN solo with CW appear on V4 (and was done if i remember before change done on the ice stack timer) and it absolutly not a 14-15k CW. I do not have 100% success even in a 5 member group on CN with a 17.5k one. Yes there is some part in CN that i can solo: some part not the whole dongeon.IF that the case also perma QQ TR they are able to solo it completly since at least V2. QQ about the GWF player i saw soloting the king crypt boss two month ago. There is also same lvl GWF in my team able to pass solo the same CN part
edit. for soloting part of CN, the only two class that i doN,t know if they can solo those part are HR and GF, i already see rest of the class do it.
And PS if you post some real good idea or change that are a real improvement, don't worry i will agree
Im glad this thread has lead to discussion, that was my intention. Was funny to see all the people crying pre-SoD nerf. Anyway, while the dps buff is nice, the class has lost its something special. I guess the lesson learnt here is nothing will keep everybody happy. But im happy to see the community come together and share their thoughts and opinions. While I still believe that TR should be the highest 1v1 DPS in the game, and that should reflect very near a CW on paingiver charts, I don't believe that TR should be just DPS at all (see new thread) To sum it up, I think TR should have burst DPS and sustained damage thereafter, not DPS DPS DPS with no real need for any other function like stealth etc. But like I say, that's on another thread.
1 ANd what would be your lvl ? + stat bonus, we are on a DD game,eahc of default bonus should be same for all. and specific bonus of a class only goes with the class charac. (on that the x2 bonus on cons for GF is stupid, same as double standard effect freely for some class).
2 it you who think that CW are here to support you.
3 having 6 time the same class does not count.
4 create one CW and show me how you solo CN, i'm curious. How ever if i'm making a fool of myself because i canno't do what 1 awesome player was able to do with a CW, can be also apply to you. or maybe you just thinking you are the best, blaming always the car. That the main difference between our reasoning, i never think that i can be a match for some very good player even if you give me their character, you think that your problem is your toon and you over gap each point that will lead to something superior to the best class in their best spot (and that why most of your change ask concern directly the base class and not only paragon path which would be much more defendable since points would not be cumulated)
Without being familiar with D&D lore regarding the GWF class, common sense says that if a guy swings a sword big enough to decapitate 3 people at once from the waist up he should be kinda strong in the damage dealing department.. dont you think ?
This is a GWF with Unstoppable as the class should be
My speech will be short- TRs ( and DCs by the way) need nerf in pvp and person or people responsible for actually changes should be dismissed from job.
From module to module thing are getting worsed, now with these DCs and especialy TRs normal pvp domination is simply impossible to do. Please start to test thing before you release it on live and mess game more and more.
Sure! Ranged people always terrified from some melee guy...
If you are taking the concept of "reality", warriors are the history of human civilization... "magicians" ... well... is good for killing chickens and goats. (or las vegas show, i dont know)
ps: this guy will kill a god (long story, gnostic japanese thing)
Is really sad that devs listen to players like you, whose does not know a thing about the game at all and making it as skill-less as it is right now for some classes to allow some persons to play this game "like good players".
1 dev doesn't listen me more than you.
2 all Your post are neither with an objectif of balance between class, neither even with the kind of play (s) dev want from the class so of course dev doesn't take it in consideration.
3 the very rare value you put in your post come from nowhere, are not explained and impact with it in neitheir approximativly given.
4 when someone take the time to put it in value with the damage formula of the game, you put it on his face like it you who develop the game and that you know everything better than everyone. Asking for exemple to get back to v3 inflexible, while even without using formula, it was the main reason GWF were so op (bug like oar passing behing shield may be an bug that help but shield only concern GF and maybe TR immun). but also you not only ask that but also to up base defense too and all that while gwf got from V3 to v4 a big buff on the RUN (CC imun +30% DR while running and something that run barr work twice time than in v3).
And 5 saying that GWF must also be the best AOE mainly is not both were it should be neither by dev and neither with the logic of a class wth a sword were your range and aoe are mainly the lengh of the sword. that why gwf power are mainly low area or single target.
I haven't check the whole detail but honestly just from PVP part, the today's 10 p of classment are really equilibrate with all class represented and no real big domination from one class (far from the 100 HR,110 GWF, 32 TR, 6 CW,1 DC, 1 GF of V3 mod).
And 5 saying that GWF must also be the best AOE mainly is not both were it should be neither by dev and neither with the logic of a class wth a sword were your range and aoe are mainly the lengh of the sword. that why gwf power are mainly low area or single target.
no ...
exchanging "range for radius," gwf have a perfect example of burst aoe in its second Atwill with a sword movement. reaping strike.
and CGI has the ability to "pull" enemies (you know, intimidation). not counting Dailys. all this should be 100% integrated (this is the problem).
what happened to the gwf is that the "rework" was overbuff feets without taking care of the base class and the synergy between these two poles (for better or worse) even after radically change the "gameplay" of this game.
this actual limitation dont have absolutely nothing to do with a "size of the sword" (my god). gwf need have the "best" - in line to the best - aoe (x5) and a "ok" single target (inferior to the rogue) to justify your actual defensive nerfs and have a good spot.
exchanging "range for radius," gwf have a perfect example of burst aoe in its second Atwill with a sword movement. reaping strike.
and CGI has the ability to "pull" enemies (you know, intimidation). not counting Dailys. all this should be 100% integrated (this is the problem).
what happened to the gwf is that the "rework" was overbuff feets without taking care of the base class and the synergy between these two poles (for better or worse) even after radically change the "gameplay" of this game.
this actual limitation dont have absolutely nothing to do with a "size of the sword" (my god). gwf need have the "best" - in line to the best - aoe (x5) and a "ok" single target (inferior to the rogue) to justify your actual defensive nerfs and have a good spot.
dear zacazu, my point with the sword was more from logical point rather than game point.
for the supposed best AOE of the game. where should they be the best. in area or number of target, in pure damage but with lower number and area
I'll be honest here by saw what appened to CW on the past. the main problem here is dev apply a good ratio around 1.6 between individual and aoe damage. that mean GWF will also by far become the strongest individual stiker while having the potentiel of a really high defense with sentinel path. so the only two point dev will come to avoid too much unbalance will be with a stack system or an overtime system and for many and me included the stack system does not feet for gwf especialy on destroyer path.
For me, the only problem on GWF is not on pvp (like all build and class, the pve and pvp are different and canno't overperform in both + already can perform quite well, just need to check the classment), is the PVE part when mob strike too hard and gwf need to goes away. PS i know that very well that mainly what appens also to CW when you loose control until you are dead. FOR me the first and most important thing to do without risking breaking some equilibrate and get hammered with the nerf hammer, is mainly to give more life steal on GWF when using some dedicate PVE power like the captsone of destroyer provide also a % more of life stealt
I'll be honest here by saw what appened to CW on the past. the main problem here is dev apply a good ratio around 1.6 between individual and aoe damage. that mean GWF will also by far become the strongest individual stiker while having the potentiel of a really high defense with sentinel path.
again, not really.
see not so fast. Nsf is an encounter with +/- 2k of base damage and lose damage for every target hit after the first (any HAMSTER like that). So nsf vs 5 = less than 10k damage.
If you do the opposite, nsf increases damage by 10% per target, the base, x5, will be 3k (?) and a total of 15k or ... i dont know. This will create a super striker sentinel? No. but if you like this encounter, now you will be more competitive in aoe scenario. destroyer and instigators will hit "hard" in aoe scenarios.
Another point is radius. The range/radius of reaping strike can hit the 4 dummies of vt area. Nsf is basically the same movement. only hit 3. up this HAMSTER. breaking game? sentinel will be a super strike? no. but will have more "guarantees" to hit 5 targets.
The current destroyer, to build fast/ maintain the stacks need a aoe scenario. But he himself does not have a big aoe, being restricted to single target. that is the FIRST problem. fix that and, if after that destroyer still need a internal buff, ok.
another point is: gwf is not an aoe / defender the kind that has its maximum performance even moving from one point to another (coi> Teleport> icy terrain> teleport> steal time> teleport). you dont put a trap and run. This is already a limitation. I really dont think that fits comparisons with the old or new cw.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited November 2014
1) please format comments properly
2) refrain from ad hominem attacks
3) As a CW who soloed CN, it is stupid hard and a ton of work, not for the light hearted! I also have excellent gear, excellent pets, and thousands of hours of practice, so I better be good at it -_-
3) As a CW who soloed CN, it is stupid hard and a ton of work, not for the light hearted! I also have excellent gear, excellent pets, and thousands of hours of practice, so I better be good at it -_-
ypu exactly, and completly on the opposite side of the TR that was able to do wher ethe most difficult part was to stay invisible (and the tyrannoil that was able toland some attack ).
The main problem of most of gwf comment who come with argument like it should be the best every where, i want the overpowered V3 gwf back with even more power etc..
ZAcazu at least on this point come with some argument that are not class compare and more class mechanism survivability, Even if he can be hard headed some time, he is a speakable guy's . the main biggest problem with gwf (i would say warrior more generally in DD) is his lack of variability (VS wizard for exemple). SO to speak if you have the build and equipment high enough to pass a point or a fight there won't be any difficulty on it with GWF while on the same fight a CW can die on it. (if it would be a run let say when a GWF run in 10 second + -0.1 while a CW will run 10.2 second + -2). SO whit those mechanism if you up too much the GWF for exemple to be able to do what a low couple of CW can do on some time. the main problem will become that lot of them will be able to do it easely .
(for exemple just taking one case just to explain it: you are fighting a mob that is doing 60K damage at once every 10 second. A CW will be killed in one shot unless he dodge what ever his gs is since he is unable to make a build able to handle this damage lvl, on opposite even a 1 k cw that always succed his dodge will be able to win (only a matter of time). The gwf on an other hand unless he can both take the damage without dying and gain enough hp back with the 10 second he won't be able to pass, but once he have enough lvl he will never die from it. (ps it an exemple to explain so no need to come with shield)
That mainly why allowing GWF to get too high will mainly lead to that and will unbalance too much.
how ever i agree that destoyer part still need some surviving help mechanism to be slighly increase on pve
what you insists to dont understand (which is why I'm "hard headed" and others do not have patience to discuss) is: destroyers can not "off tank" a crowd as before and do not have the old utility.
he is no longer a hybrid "offensive / defensive / utility" like cw. the class lost utility with changes in m3, and now tank. where is the damage to compensate?
a 'cw pve "dies with" one strike "(stereotype). gwf, 3 (dragons can one shot my destro. 41% resistance). But my damage (perhaps the worst among dps now) is stuck in the part to a class feature of 3 secs. if I stop hitting the opponent for 3 secs, I lose damage bonus. 38.5% (that much... this is not a good thing.).
the problem is, these are not an additional 38.5 bonus on a solid dps. is what makes a bad dps, an average dps. compare with a cw. you wait x seconds and has 100% critical chance. I need 5 stacks of 3 seconds for 10%.
* but the biggest problem is: I just reinstall the game to test something. The damage of my destroyer looks smaller than it was before and the animation slower. how is this possible?
The Person in charge will not be fired?
the question is: if it is to have tradeoff, give tradeoof. if it is to be re-hybrid, ok, improve my defense / utility. which I admit is not the indifference of a combat designer obviously incompetent and players who do not understand much of the class giving guess.
I challenge the gentlemancruch to make a "one hour" with a gwf using reaping strike.
what you insists to dont understand (which is why I'm "hard headed" and others do not have patience to discuss) is: destroyers can not "off tank" a crowd as before and do not have the old utility.
it was a compliment i was saying. I prefer you defends your point with solid argument even if i'm not agree with. Than some other guys that mainly is i want a god character, you are stupid because you are not agree
* but the biggest problem is: I just reinstall the game to test something. The damage of my destroyer looks smaller than it was before and the animation slower. how is this possible?
The Person in charge will not be fired?
the question is: if it is to have tradeoff, give tradeoof. if it is to be re-hybrid, ok, improve my defense / utility. which I admit is not the indifference of a combat designer obviously incompetent and players who do not understand much of the class giving guess.
I challenge the gentlemancruch to make a "one hour" with a gwf using reaping strike.
for the anim cast i do not like it and that what ever the class involve, so i completly agree on this, playing a game where you pass time wiating effect is not fun, what ever the class involve, else let put a hold button to choose your power a put a round battle like it is in paper.
for the last two sentence honestly do not expect something with this kind of return. The lvl to up or down it is much shorter than it looks (mainly because impact can goes sometime very high). If you want to make some real comparistion here a test yo ucan do with some of your teamate to determine how HAMSTER hor not is your gwf. (do it with most class) each one do some part game solo with determine GS (not that hard to put out some equip to get lower gs ), determine for each class which equip lvl is required to not have the too hard part. if you get the result that for doing same points GWF systematicly require 30% more GS, you get your unbalance. Then once it put on paper you can see mainly which damage lvl or defense you should add to make it balance (30% for exemple give around 10% more damage).
By doing real test and compare you will get much more attention from dev but also you may find some thing that you were thinking true that are false or revert but also confirm eventually the exact lvl you should work on.
the other point is a class rebuild but there is not more a balance matter, it mean you want new mechanism and it not a cry to do but a rethink because maybe you will like some but some other won't like it
My speech will be short- TRs ( and DCs by the way) need nerf in pvp and person or people responsible for actually changes should be dismissed from job.
From module to module thing are getting worsed, now with these DCs and especialy TRs normal pvp domination is simply impossible to do. Please start to test thing before you release it on live and mess game more and more.
Exacly what I'm thinking.
I am a 22k gear score CW, I’ve played thousands of 1 x 1 PVP, open world and domination. I posted a month ago the suggestion of cutting 50% to our spell casting time (activation time) because it cripple us down for PVP and serve no purpose in PVE. Module 5 gave us 40% reduction on some spells and it's great. Now developers can you complete those changes by cutting the activation time of Conduit of Ice 50%. Can you also make Steal Time and Sudden Storm usable in PVP buy cutting 50% of the activation time of Steal Time and make the Slowing Time working on all class without any immunity, so the activation time will slow everyone for around 1.5 sec (not a big deal) and make this spell able to interrupted TR Stealth and immunities (so TR will have to use knowledge and good play by using there encounters to compensate instead of always disappearing and strike while immune, stealth or stunning without us having no way to fight). Can you reduce Sudden Storm activation time by 60% and the resulting Bolt of lightning strike to be done 50% quicker so we will be able to use that spell in PVP?
For last I think that CW Stamina (stamina bar) should go up 20 to 30% faster so we will be more able to fight against charging GW and HR.
And my final thought is that Tr DPS is way too high for PVP considering of all the stealth, immunities, stuns… While in PVP TR Lashing Blade deals 39K damage even coming from a 13k TR (an encounter that deals more damage than my Ice Knive daily, hello!!!! and on top of that coming out of stealth) it should be cut down by 70% (it's an encounter not a daily), Bloodbath, Impact Shot, Whirlwing Blade… DPS should be cut down by 35% at least and Dazing Strike daze time reduced to 50%. Since module 5, even a 12k stealth can rule over other class (got one 12k TR killing me this morning with a 30.6k critical strike using Bloodbath and a 18k took me 18k with 2 shots of Whirlwing Blade that is supposed to be DEALING MINOR DAMAGE hello!!! ) and 19k and higher TR are killing everyone in Domination even 3 to 4 on 1 or doing a lot of damages to everyone and run away before getting kill for returning (more then often taking the pots insted of other players because they run so fast to it)full health a couple seconds later (that’s crazy unbalance PVP non sense).
Like I’ve posted before it won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW and I’m sure will have a good impact on our appreciation of the game instead of being frustrating most of the time.
you do not understand the last post, but we will return
1 - about balance: destroyers are defensively inferior. is a fact.
when I say "destroyers need to do x% more damage than the cw" iam not speak in comparison with cw itself (no more) because currently the "Pure dps" has naturally more damage than the "hybrid" or "defender". this is good despite the game's damage being out of control.
what is relevant here is: how much damage the destroyer need to have versus what the healthy way to do get this. for example, this change I said in not so fast. you would have a varied performance in a dungeon aoe / a dungeon single target and pvp. and as shown, the difference for a sentinel would be really negligible.
now
2 -
gwf is not destroyed or weak only in a comparative sense. My damage seens smaller. The animation of the "final hit" of sure strike seemed a ibs. the previous sprint still broken. what happened? the gameplay are a mess! I do not see how I could have fun with the gwf now. why the designer of a game x will take away a fun to play your game? I already think stupid people "conspiring" against "My fun" proposing nerfs (and iam a little emotive about that...). now the game programmer sabotage your own product? what is the point?
Comments
i agree with icd breaking our class but not sure about reduced durations. reduced duration might break the entire chain-daze thing and make it harder or impossible to follow a critical daze with a flurry or dazing strike. main point in the critical dazes is to give us time to follow-up with more attacks. dazing strike and smoke bomb just need to last as long as necessary to flurry someone.
i don't benefit from skullcracker's daze though since i always use an encounter that already dazes on a shorter cooldown so that 1 doesn't bother me.
Always joking man, is their on your view even a point where gwf should not be the best at, i mean by reading all your post GWF should be the best defense, the best single target, the best aoe target. problably by searching a little should also be the best range and the best control
Without being familiar with D&D lore regarding the GWF class, common sense says that if a guy swings a sword big enough to decapitate 3 people at once from the waist up he should be kinda strong in the damage dealing department.. dont you think ?
This is a GWF with Unstoppable as the class should be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qacgb2b8LVU
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
common sense also says that a gwf wearing heavy armor should not be a road runner in human form
As explained by crisand as you are saying GWF is an hybrid class. An hybrid, doesn't mean it has to be on the same lvl as other class on their strong point. it mean if you do less damage than the best, in exchange the weak point of the other class are less on your. that the main deffinition of an hybryd. Even if you choose DPS path you still have a far better defense than A DPS CW have. that the point where your reasoning is wrong (you want to still get the strong point without taking the weak point). And on that trust me the defense lvl of a gwf is far better than a CW one even in the destroyer path. It same as your other post where you were asked a defense lvl that nearly only the defensive path of GF can get.
SO asking for the same dps in aoe (that is supposed to be CW main point) than dps CW . i'm not agree, GWf dps path being same mono or even sliglty higher DPS as DPS CW, yes i'm agree, maybe GWF is tankier but you have less range that balance thing.
Maybe i have less knowledge than you in GWF part, but the fact that i'm playing both i'm in far better position than you qq about wanting to be as strong as the dps path of the aoe dps class of the DPS storm spell (vs the debuf MOF, opresseur that probably do 3/4 less damage and beaten all of time in dps by DPS GWF) and that without taking of course the 2 second casting time of each spell, or the low survivability, or the fact that main damage are over time and need time to activate. You are able to check the damage but have you ever check too that CW is often also the first on the diying count.
The fact thet 95 % of CW player play a thauma stormspell, is a thing that make people feel like CW is too powered becasue 95% play the dps, dps, ddps CW. Give CW a defense lvl more on the line with any other class have and yes i would be the first to claim that other class should then have a more on the line damage than CW even GWF.
And PS in this Post about TR vs Cw, maybe there is some adjust to do on TR (as they did on CW ) but on other hand i can understand that TR without stealth, they are just slightly better in defense term than CW (deflect part) it still not suffisant alone to be balanced in PVE so they need extra control or an other mechanism to survive (i don't care they do same dps or even better as CW if it balanced). For PVP part it the dev job to make some feat work with less time if they are too powerfull in pvp part like they did on CW with different time of control in pvp or pve) ex : stealth drop twice speed while flagued in pvp ( lvl may be adjusted more or less or can also make power that make rogue gain stealth give only 50% while flagged in PVP can also be a possibility.)
1 no you can't goes as high as the other class. As same exemple as you are giving, if you choose tank path, yes maybe you can be as tanky as a GF tank that choose dps path, but you can't be as tanky as a GF tank that choose the tank path and that mainly what you are asking. you can't take a general path and become as strong as someone who already choose a specific path and continue in the same. else no need to have 7 class,.
2 CW is not mainly a control class it is mainly an AOE class, more than half power of CW are mainly AOE power (only ice dagger, ray of enffeblement and the 2 first at will canno't be transform in aoe spell)while most of GWF power are mainly single target. And control part is mainly pushed in opressor. ANd one thing at first part while control was upped player come here to complain to drop control on CW.
3 not enough
4 the first CW CN solo with CW appear on V4 (and was done if i remember before change done on the ice stack timer) and it absolutly not a 14-15k CW. I do not have 100% success even in a 5 member group on CN with a 17.5k one. Yes there is some part in CN that i can solo: some part not the whole dongeon.IF that the case also perma QQ TR they are able to solo it completly since at least V2. QQ about the GWF player i saw soloting the king crypt boss two month ago. There is also same lvl GWF in my team able to pass solo the same CN part
edit. for soloting part of CN, the only two class that i doN,t know if they can solo those part are HR and GF, i already see rest of the class do it.
And PS if you post some real good idea or change that are a real improvement, don't worry i will agree
2 it you who think that CW are here to support you.
3 having 6 time the same class does not count.
4 create one CW and show me how you solo CN, i'm curious. How ever if i'm making a fool of myself because i canno't do what 1 awesome player was able to do with a CW, can be also apply to you. or maybe you just thinking you are the best, blaming always the car. That the main difference between our reasoning, i never think that i can be a match for some very good player even if you give me their character, you think that your problem is your toon and you over gap each point that will lead to something superior to the best class in their best spot (and that why most of your change ask concern directly the base class and not only paragon path which would be much more defendable since points would not be cumulated)
Sure! Ranged people always terrified from some melee guy...
From module to module thing are getting worsed, now with these DCs and especialy TRs normal pvp domination is simply impossible to do. Please start to test thing before you release it on live and mess game more and more.
If you are taking the concept of "reality", warriors are the history of human civilization... "magicians" ... well... is good for killing chickens and goats. (or las vegas show, i dont know)
ps: this guy will kill a god (long story, gnostic japanese thing)
1 dev doesn't listen me more than you.
2 all Your post are neither with an objectif of balance between class, neither even with the kind of play (s) dev want from the class so of course dev doesn't take it in consideration.
3 the very rare value you put in your post come from nowhere, are not explained and impact with it in neitheir approximativly given.
4 when someone take the time to put it in value with the damage formula of the game, you put it on his face like it you who develop the game and that you know everything better than everyone. Asking for exemple to get back to v3 inflexible, while even without using formula, it was the main reason GWF were so op (bug like oar passing behing shield may be an bug that help but shield only concern GF and maybe TR immun). but also you not only ask that but also to up base defense too and all that while gwf got from V3 to v4 a big buff on the RUN (CC imun +30% DR while running and something that run barr work twice time than in v3).
And 5 saying that GWF must also be the best AOE mainly is not both were it should be neither by dev and neither with the logic of a class wth a sword were your range and aoe are mainly the lengh of the sword. that why gwf power are mainly low area or single target.
I haven't check the whole detail but honestly just from PVP part, the today's 10 p of classment are really equilibrate with all class represented and no real big domination from one class (far from the 100 HR,110 GWF, 32 TR, 6 CW,1 DC, 1 GF of V3 mod).
How ever look like for me pointless in your CASE
no ...
exchanging "range for radius," gwf have a perfect example of burst aoe in its second Atwill with a sword movement. reaping strike.
and CGI has the ability to "pull" enemies (you know, intimidation). not counting Dailys. all this should be 100% integrated (this is the problem).
what happened to the gwf is that the "rework" was overbuff feets without taking care of the base class and the synergy between these two poles (for better or worse) even after radically change the "gameplay" of this game.
this actual limitation dont have absolutely nothing to do with a "size of the sword" (my god). gwf need have the "best" - in line to the best - aoe (x5) and a "ok" single target (inferior to the rogue) to justify your actual defensive nerfs and have a good spot.
dear zacazu, my point with the sword was more from logical point rather than game point.
for the supposed best AOE of the game. where should they be the best. in area or number of target, in pure damage but with lower number and area
I'll be honest here by saw what appened to CW on the past. the main problem here is dev apply a good ratio around 1.6 between individual and aoe damage. that mean GWF will also by far become the strongest individual stiker while having the potentiel of a really high defense with sentinel path. so the only two point dev will come to avoid too much unbalance will be with a stack system or an overtime system and for many and me included the stack system does not feet for gwf especialy on destroyer path.
For me, the only problem on GWF is not on pvp (like all build and class, the pve and pvp are different and canno't overperform in both + already can perform quite well, just need to check the classment), is the PVE part when mob strike too hard and gwf need to goes away. PS i know that very well that mainly what appens also to CW when you loose control until you are dead. FOR me the first and most important thing to do without risking breaking some equilibrate and get hammered with the nerf hammer, is mainly to give more life steal on GWF when using some dedicate PVE power like the captsone of destroyer provide also a % more of life stealt
again, not really.
see not so fast. Nsf is an encounter with +/- 2k of base damage and lose damage for every target hit after the first (any HAMSTER like that). So nsf vs 5 = less than 10k damage.
If you do the opposite, nsf increases damage by 10% per target, the base, x5, will be 3k (?) and a total of 15k or ... i dont know. This will create a super striker sentinel? No. but if you like this encounter, now you will be more competitive in aoe scenario. destroyer and instigators will hit "hard" in aoe scenarios.
Another point is radius. The range/radius of reaping strike can hit the 4 dummies of vt area. Nsf is basically the same movement. only hit 3. up this HAMSTER. breaking game? sentinel will be a super strike? no. but will have more "guarantees" to hit 5 targets.
The current destroyer, to build fast/ maintain the stacks need a aoe scenario. But he himself does not have a big aoe, being restricted to single target. that is the FIRST problem. fix that and, if after that destroyer still need a internal buff, ok.
another point is: gwf is not an aoe / defender the kind that has its maximum performance even moving from one point to another (coi> Teleport> icy terrain> teleport> steal time> teleport). you dont put a trap and run. This is already a limitation. I really dont think that fits comparisons with the old or new cw.
2) refrain from ad hominem attacks
3) As a CW who soloed CN, it is stupid hard and a ton of work, not for the light hearted! I also have excellent gear, excellent pets, and thousands of hours of practice, so I better be good at it -_-
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
ypu exactly, and completly on the opposite side of the TR that was able to do wher ethe most difficult part was to stay invisible (and the tyrannoil that was able toland some attack ).
The main problem of most of gwf comment who come with argument like it should be the best every where, i want the overpowered V3 gwf back with even more power etc..
ZAcazu at least on this point come with some argument that are not class compare and more class mechanism survivability, Even if he can be hard headed some time, he is a speakable guy's . the main biggest problem with gwf (i would say warrior more generally in DD) is his lack of variability (VS wizard for exemple). SO to speak if you have the build and equipment high enough to pass a point or a fight there won't be any difficulty on it with GWF while on the same fight a CW can die on it. (if it would be a run let say when a GWF run in 10 second + -0.1 while a CW will run 10.2 second + -2). SO whit those mechanism if you up too much the GWF for exemple to be able to do what a low couple of CW can do on some time. the main problem will become that lot of them will be able to do it easely .
(for exemple just taking one case just to explain it: you are fighting a mob that is doing 60K damage at once every 10 second. A CW will be killed in one shot unless he dodge what ever his gs is since he is unable to make a build able to handle this damage lvl, on opposite even a 1 k cw that always succed his dodge will be able to win (only a matter of time). The gwf on an other hand unless he can both take the damage without dying and gain enough hp back with the 10 second he won't be able to pass, but once he have enough lvl he will never die from it. (ps it an exemple to explain so no need to come with shield)
That mainly why allowing GWF to get too high will mainly lead to that and will unbalance too much.
how ever i agree that destoyer part still need some surviving help mechanism to be slighly increase on pve
he is no longer a hybrid "offensive / defensive / utility" like cw. the class lost utility with changes in m3, and now tank. where is the damage to compensate?
a 'cw pve "dies with" one strike "(stereotype). gwf, 3 (dragons can one shot my destro. 41% resistance). But my damage (perhaps the worst among dps now) is stuck in the part to a class feature of 3 secs. if I stop hitting the opponent for 3 secs, I lose damage bonus. 38.5% (that much... this is not a good thing.).
the problem is, these are not an additional 38.5 bonus on a solid dps. is what makes a bad dps, an average dps. compare with a cw. you wait x seconds and has 100% critical chance. I need 5 stacks of 3 seconds for 10%.
* but the biggest problem is: I just reinstall the game to test something. The damage of my destroyer looks smaller than it was before and the animation slower. how is this possible?
The Person in charge will not be fired?
the question is: if it is to have tradeoff, give tradeoof. if it is to be re-hybrid, ok, improve my defense / utility. which I admit is not the indifference of a combat designer obviously incompetent and players who do not understand much of the class giving guess.
I challenge the gentlemancruch to make a "one hour" with a gwf using reaping strike.
it was a compliment i was saying. I prefer you defends your point with solid argument even if i'm not agree with. Than some other guys that mainly is i want a god character, you are stupid because you are not agree
for the anim cast i do not like it and that what ever the class involve, so i completly agree on this, playing a game where you pass time wiating effect is not fun, what ever the class involve, else let put a hold button to choose your power a put a round battle like it is in paper.
for the last two sentence honestly do not expect something with this kind of return. The lvl to up or down it is much shorter than it looks (mainly because impact can goes sometime very high). If you want to make some real comparistion here a test yo ucan do with some of your teamate to determine how HAMSTER hor not is your gwf. (do it with most class) each one do some part game solo with determine GS (not that hard to put out some equip to get lower gs ), determine for each class which equip lvl is required to not have the too hard part. if you get the result that for doing same points GWF systematicly require 30% more GS, you get your unbalance. Then once it put on paper you can see mainly which damage lvl or defense you should add to make it balance (30% for exemple give around 10% more damage).
By doing real test and compare you will get much more attention from dev but also you may find some thing that you were thinking true that are false or revert but also confirm eventually the exact lvl you should work on.
the other point is a class rebuild but there is not more a balance matter, it mean you want new mechanism and it not a cry to do but a rethink because maybe you will like some but some other won't like it
Exacly what I'm thinking.
I am a 22k gear score CW, I’ve played thousands of 1 x 1 PVP, open world and domination. I posted a month ago the suggestion of cutting 50% to our spell casting time (activation time) because it cripple us down for PVP and serve no purpose in PVE. Module 5 gave us 40% reduction on some spells and it's great. Now developers can you complete those changes by cutting the activation time of Conduit of Ice 50%. Can you also make Steal Time and Sudden Storm usable in PVP buy cutting 50% of the activation time of Steal Time and make the Slowing Time working on all class without any immunity, so the activation time will slow everyone for around 1.5 sec (not a big deal) and make this spell able to interrupted TR Stealth and immunities (so TR will have to use knowledge and good play by using there encounters to compensate instead of always disappearing and strike while immune, stealth or stunning without us having no way to fight). Can you reduce Sudden Storm activation time by 60% and the resulting Bolt of lightning strike to be done 50% quicker so we will be able to use that spell in PVP?
For last I think that CW Stamina (stamina bar) should go up 20 to 30% faster so we will be more able to fight against charging GW and HR.
And my final thought is that Tr DPS is way too high for PVP considering of all the stealth, immunities, stuns… While in PVP TR Lashing Blade deals 39K damage even coming from a 13k TR (an encounter that deals more damage than my Ice Knive daily, hello!!!! and on top of that coming out of stealth) it should be cut down by 70% (it's an encounter not a daily), Bloodbath, Impact Shot, Whirlwing Blade… DPS should be cut down by 35% at least and Dazing Strike daze time reduced to 50%. Since module 5, even a 12k stealth can rule over other class (got one 12k TR killing me this morning with a 30.6k critical strike using Bloodbath and a 18k took me 18k with 2 shots of Whirlwing Blade that is supposed to be DEALING MINOR DAMAGE hello!!! ) and 19k and higher TR are killing everyone in Domination even 3 to 4 on 1 or doing a lot of damages to everyone and run away before getting kill for returning (more then often taking the pots insted of other players because they run so fast to it)full health a couple seconds later (that’s crazy unbalance PVP non sense).
Like I’ve posted before it won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW and I’m sure will have a good impact on our appreciation of the game instead of being frustrating most of the time.
1 - about balance: destroyers are defensively inferior. is a fact.
when I say "destroyers need to do x% more damage than the cw" iam not speak in comparison with cw itself (no more) because currently the "Pure dps" has naturally more damage than the "hybrid" or "defender". this is good despite the game's damage being out of control.
what is relevant here is: how much damage the destroyer need to have versus what the healthy way to do get this. for example, this change I said in not so fast. you would have a varied performance in a dungeon aoe / a dungeon single target and pvp. and as shown, the difference for a sentinel would be really negligible.
now
2 -
gwf is not destroyed or weak only in a comparative sense. My damage seens smaller. The animation of the "final hit" of sure strike seemed a ibs. the previous sprint still broken. what happened? the gameplay are a mess! I do not see how I could have fun with the gwf now. why the designer of a game x will take away a fun to play your game? I already think stupid people "conspiring" against "My fun" proposing nerfs (and iam a little emotive about that...). now the game programmer sabotage your own product? what is the point?