I think you may be off with this. I have NEVER played PvP since before Mod 1 and yet I am in the leaderboard.
Thats because your only visible on the leaderboard to yourself. If you have 0 games, you will appear on last place, but only visible to yourself. If you get 1 game, you will be visible to everyone.
at most you have 70k (50-55k to be more realistic) active players.
It's even less, we have something like 110K characters used on MoD 4, considering the fact that in some accounts you have more than one character the number of players decrease, and then, that number is not even active players, are players that logged once in MoD 4.
But being more realistic, I think even some PvE guys would at least try PvP once in a month.
Not really. I don't like PvP in Neverwinter, since it's pointless, and thus I never queue for it.
In ESO, for example, I like PvP since it's more about battles and sieges than about domination.
I can run through every other module through with no more then 15 mins max a day, I could probably run through 2-3 or more alts through every other module through in the same time I do one alt for ToD, I just dont understand how you can say its the same...
It is same for me, since I enjoy my time questing, and thus take my time to pick up items, refine them, identify them...
What all the other modules allow you to do is be done with them at some point, with reasonable amount of grinding, ToD doesnt have that.. not even close.
Well, I don't see anyone forcing you to grind all those campaigns and boons for 10+ characters. Your choice.
Ditto. Never PVPed here, never will. I could care less about any of the rewards for it. It still isn't worth it for me.
Just based on this topic alone. There seems to be a fairly significant number of people who avoid PVP like the plague.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
When I PvPed, it wasn't for the AD. Rhix/Neverember dailies put me over my cap enough that I can slack on the Leadership a bit, but I'm usually around my cap without any dailies at all. A big pool of unrefined AD is only useful if I took a vacation or something.
PvP turned into a miserable enough experience that I wasn't enjoying it at all, so I haven't touched it in months.
When PvP stopped being fun at the start of mod4, I forgot about these 8K raw AD. And well, I'm now overproducing a little less. Not a big difference.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited October 2014
While I understand the curiosity for knowing the exact population numbers, at least the developers had the good idea of not making this game over-reliant on population for content (either pvp or pve). This avoids (or at least severly mitigates) the vicious spiral of people leaving because of lack of other people playing the game. I've seen other MMOS die because of it.
Just to be clear, I loved the new dungeon and skirmish. They are a little bit easy, but still fun regardless. My complaints are based around the RNG nature of the rewards and the dailies. The RNG-based rewards are related to the very short and relatively easy new dungeon because RNG is how they gate stuff in this module instead of difficulty.
I hardly think anyone would ignore 8k AD a day on their primary account which means at most you have 70k (50-55k to be more realistic) active players
They could offer 80k AD a day and I still wouldn't touch PvP
A world to defend
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
They could offer 80k AD a day and I still wouldn't touch PvP
This ^^
The PVP Community is a mix of narcissistic egoists and ten year old children with no life. The only reason I have a PVP specced character right now is because, I feel, as a guild leader in my hybrid PVE/PVP guild, I need to be extremely experienced in both PVE/PVP
The PVP Community is a mix of narcissistic egoists and ten year old children with no life. The only reason I have a PVP specced character right now is because, I feel, as a guild leader in my hybrid PVE/PVP guild, I need to be extremely experienced in both PVE/PVP
Now now, every community will have its own share of less appeasing folks. I see that you weren't in this game back when everyone was doing PVE content in the early days. I will tell you that PVE community wasn't exactly pleasant. Tons and tons of arguments about how to do a particular segment of the dungeon. Kicking people at the end of runs so that a guild of 3-4 could share the loot. Kicking players if they didn't know how to do a certain glitch.
Also, a lot of the PVP players today used to be long time PVE players. They merely switched because PVE is a joke now. So you are complaining about the PVP community that has most of its players come from PVE. Ironic.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
0
onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited October 2014
There's no challenging PvE content and no rewards you'll ever realistically see. Many PvE players leave, but a few swap to PvP because there's nothing else to do and they've spent too much time, effort, and/or money to simply call it quits.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Mod 5 is gonna be their last chance to make some favorable changes or the first proverbial nail will be driven into the coffin for this game.
If mod 5 goes anything like mod 4 I wouldn't be surprised if they folded completely and discontinued the game. (they wouldn't but it'd be funny, and sad, of course lol)
Anyway, it's fairly obvious this game is bleeding players like a stuck pig, damage control starts on Mod 5, no matter what they're planning or doing now, they need to change their game plan to accommodate this or let this game slip through their fingers...
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Mod 5 is gonna be their last chance to make some favorable changes or the first proverbial nail will be driven into the coffin for this game.
If mod 5 goes anything like mod 4 I wouldn't be surprised if they folded completely and discontinued the game. (they wouldn't but it'd be funny, and sad, of course lol)
Anyway, it's fairly obvious this game is bleeding players like a stuck pig, damage control starts on Mod 5, no matter what they're planning or doing now, they need to change their game plan to accommodate this or let this game slip through their fingers...
Mod 5 WILL be the same as mod 4, there is no reason to believe otherwise. And no, it might upset a few folks who have, for some reason, expected things to change, at all or instantly, for no other reason then they have complained. But it wont kill the game.
People said the game wouldn't make it 6 months, then it wouldn't make it a year, then it was mod 4 that would kill it. Now its mod 5, and months from now it will be mod 6.
Cryptic has yet to close a game. Not even Champions is in danger of being closed. And that's a woefully neglected game that's been all but in maintenance mode for well over a year now. Neverwinter is a long long way from that.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited October 2014
Yeah, I don't expect changes in mod 5. It's too far along the pipeline. I fully expect RNG madness and mandatory time gated dailies to continue. Mod 6 on the other hand should be influenced by lessons learned on mods 3 and 4. That's my deadline and what I tell my guildies to hope for.
Yeah, I don't expect changes in mod 5. It's too far along the pipeline. I fully expect RNG madness and mandatory time gated dailies to continue. Mod 6 on the other hand should be influenced by lessons learned on mods 3 and 4. That's my deadline and what I tell my guildies to hope for.
I think that's an honest timeframe. Most of the RNG complaints have come as a result of Mod4. So, if they already had Mod5 in the pipeline (knowing WotC and their ... reasonableness, I wouldn't have been surprised), we shouldn't expect much change there. Mod 6, though, will have given them 2-3 mods of HE & RNG complaints to respond to. That's the point where we see the degree of attention given to the players' desires.
Yeah, I don't expect changes in mod 5. It's too far along the pipeline. I fully expect RNG madness and mandatory time gated dailies to continue. Mod 6 on the other hand should be influenced by lessons learned on mods 3 and 4. That's my deadline and what I tell my guildies to hope for.
I agree. I think module 5 is going to be more of the same. I've accepted it that the lessons they learn from the feedback will not be seen in the next mod but hopefully be applied to module 6.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited October 2014
It's not just new content though, at some point they will have to overhaul old content as the amount of campaigns and dailies will become unbearable further down the line, especially for new players or those who want to make new characters (with the new classes that they will presumably release in the future).
The same goes for RNG, right now Black Ice gear risks of being trivialized already and probably will become totally obsolete by mod 5. They need to make the access to it easier.
It's not just new content though, at some point they will have to overhaul old content as the amount of campaigns and dailies will become unbearable further down the line, especially for new players or those who want to make new characters (with the new classes that they will presumably release in the future).
They won't overhaul but they have provided an alternative: you can buy full campaign completions for 5000 zen each
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
They won't overhaul but they have provided an alternative: you can buy full campaign completions for 5000 zen each
That may work for the time being, but eventually they'll have to give in and overhaul. I cannot see how they plan to attract new or returning players by "forcing" them to spend lots of Zen just to skip the tedious grind. Right now it works because there's a couple of campaigns you can do that for, but eventually can you imagine players spending 20000-30000 zen just to skip the campaigns and get to the new stuff? I can't.
They could offer 80k AD a day and I still wouldn't touch PvP
Likewise.
Besides, the 8k AD a day? That's a joke, right? I mean, that's worth 16 US cents(aka 16 zen). The entire month is worth less than a fancy latte. No, that's not incentive at all. (Unless it maybe it was for a free latte... hmm...)
Besides, even without being at max level, you can find more than 8k worth of items pretty easily on the PvE side.
Honestly, when you see Cryptic starting to re-do old areas...THAT is the time you need to worry about the state of the game. As long as they are making new stuff its a good indication that the game is doing well.
I know in Champions, we got the first vibe that the game was going into maintenance mode when they kept re-doing the starting tutorial. They eventually re-did that and the initial level 1-15 area, like 3 different times. They re-did the power house and the trainer areas at least twice. There was a point in the game where it felt like they were re-doing almost everything level 20 or lower. It honestly wasn't a good time for the game.
The lesson here is, be careful what you wish for.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited October 2014
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing some of Neverwinter's fundamental mechanics redone.
Besides, the 8k AD a day? That's a joke, right? I mean, that's worth 16 US cents(aka 16 zen). The entire month is worth less than a fancy latte. No, that's not incentive at all. (Unless it maybe it was for a free latte... hmm...)
Besides, even without being at max level, you can find more than 8k worth of items pretty easily on the PvE side.
Oh trust me, a lot of the PVP players would LOVE to not have you guys participate in their matches. It just wastes 10-15minutes of their time and also encumbers them to carry the team. If you are playing on the opposite side, they just lose ELO and leaderboard rankings by playing against you despite the fact that they demolished your team and never died once. Lose-lose for them either way.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Honestly, when you see Cryptic starting to re-do old areas...THAT is the time you need to worry about the state of the game. As long as they are making new stuff its a good indication that the game is doing well.
I know in Champions, we got the first vibe that the game was going into maintenance mode when they kept re-doing the starting tutorial. They eventually re-did that and the initial level 1-15 area, like 3 different times. They re-did the power house and the trainer areas at least twice. There was a point in the game where it felt like they were re-doing almost everything level 20 or lower. It honestly wasn't a good time for the game.
The lesson here is, be careful what you wish for.
My opinion is that all MMOS need an overhaul of old content down the line. I think that keeping the same curve of progression for content that was released years ago while adding new content is a mistake, as you're effectively gating new content making it accessible only to veteran, whereas it's in the developer's best interest that as many people as possible have access to that content.
I never played Champions, but I know that many other MMOS (WoW, AoC, RIFT, WAR, Lotro, ecc...) were not afraid to re-do old content when new expansions came.
You can search all the other MMOs too on steam and compare, I think its one of the most played MMOs on steam if not the most (think planetside 2 has more).
But I'll make an educated guess and quadruple that number which is pretty good activity for a MMO i think. Bear in mind that most steam players do not venture near these forums.
Comments
Thats because your only visible on the leaderboard to yourself. If you have 0 games, you will appear on last place, but only visible to yourself. If you get 1 game, you will be visible to everyone.
So no, you are not on the leaderboard
It's even less, we have something like 110K characters used on MoD 4, considering the fact that in some accounts you have more than one character the number of players decrease, and then, that number is not even active players, are players that logged once in MoD 4.
Not really. I don't like PvP in Neverwinter, since it's pointless, and thus I never queue for it.
In ESO, for example, I like PvP since it's more about battles and sieges than about domination.
It is same for me, since I enjoy my time questing, and thus take my time to pick up items, refine them, identify them...
Well, I don't see anyone forcing you to grind all those campaigns and boons for 10+ characters. Your choice.
I do. Every single day.
Ditto. Never PVPed here, never will. I could care less about any of the rewards for it. It still isn't worth it for me.
Just based on this topic alone. There seems to be a fairly significant number of people who avoid PVP like the plague.
PvP turned into a miserable enough experience that I wasn't enjoying it at all, so I haven't touched it in months.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
There should be around 200.000 to 300.000 active player.
They could offer 80k AD a day and I still wouldn't touch PvP
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
This ^^
The PVP Community is a mix of narcissistic egoists and ten year old children with no life. The only reason I have a PVP specced character right now is because, I feel, as a guild leader in my hybrid PVE/PVP guild, I need to be extremely experienced in both PVE/PVP
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Now now, every community will have its own share of less appeasing folks. I see that you weren't in this game back when everyone was doing PVE content in the early days. I will tell you that PVE community wasn't exactly pleasant. Tons and tons of arguments about how to do a particular segment of the dungeon. Kicking people at the end of runs so that a guild of 3-4 could share the loot. Kicking players if they didn't know how to do a certain glitch.
Also, a lot of the PVP players today used to be long time PVE players. They merely switched because PVE is a joke now. So you are complaining about the PVP community that has most of its players come from PVE. Ironic.
I always thought the leaderboard was interesting to get an idea of at least 1 segment of the population (the pvp group).
I think population wise this game is just fine.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I stick around because my guildies are awesome.
^Bingo! Pretty much my only reason for sticking it out and not moving on
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
If mod 5 goes anything like mod 4 I wouldn't be surprised if they folded completely and discontinued the game. (they wouldn't but it'd be funny, and sad, of course lol)
Anyway, it's fairly obvious this game is bleeding players like a stuck pig, damage control starts on Mod 5, no matter what they're planning or doing now, they need to change their game plan to accommodate this or let this game slip through their fingers...
Mod 5 WILL be the same as mod 4, there is no reason to believe otherwise. And no, it might upset a few folks who have, for some reason, expected things to change, at all or instantly, for no other reason then they have complained. But it wont kill the game.
People said the game wouldn't make it 6 months, then it wouldn't make it a year, then it was mod 4 that would kill it. Now its mod 5, and months from now it will be mod 6.
Cryptic has yet to close a game. Not even Champions is in danger of being closed. And that's a woefully neglected game that's been all but in maintenance mode for well over a year now. Neverwinter is a long long way from that.
I think that's an honest timeframe. Most of the RNG complaints have come as a result of Mod4. So, if they already had Mod5 in the pipeline (knowing WotC and their ... reasonableness, I wouldn't have been surprised), we shouldn't expect much change there. Mod 6, though, will have given them 2-3 mods of HE & RNG complaints to respond to. That's the point where we see the degree of attention given to the players' desires.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I agree. I think module 5 is going to be more of the same. I've accepted it that the lessons they learn from the feedback will not be seen in the next mod but hopefully be applied to module 6.
The same goes for RNG, right now Black Ice gear risks of being trivialized already and probably will become totally obsolete by mod 5. They need to make the access to it easier.
They won't overhaul but they have provided an alternative: you can buy full campaign completions for 5000 zen each
That may work for the time being, but eventually they'll have to give in and overhaul. I cannot see how they plan to attract new or returning players by "forcing" them to spend lots of Zen just to skip the tedious grind. Right now it works because there's a couple of campaigns you can do that for, but eventually can you imagine players spending 20000-30000 zen just to skip the campaigns and get to the new stuff? I can't.
Likewise.
Besides, the 8k AD a day? That's a joke, right? I mean, that's worth 16 US cents(aka 16 zen). The entire month is worth less than a fancy latte. No, that's not incentive at all. (Unless it maybe it was for a free latte... hmm...)
Besides, even without being at max level, you can find more than 8k worth of items pretty easily on the PvE side.
I know in Champions, we got the first vibe that the game was going into maintenance mode when they kept re-doing the starting tutorial. They eventually re-did that and the initial level 1-15 area, like 3 different times. They re-did the power house and the trainer areas at least twice. There was a point in the game where it felt like they were re-doing almost everything level 20 or lower. It honestly wasn't a good time for the game.
The lesson here is, be careful what you wish for.
Oh trust me, a lot of the PVP players would LOVE to not have you guys participate in their matches. It just wastes 10-15minutes of their time and also encumbers them to carry the team. If you are playing on the opposite side, they just lose ELO and leaderboard rankings by playing against you despite the fact that they demolished your team and never died once. Lose-lose for them either way.
My opinion is that all MMOS need an overhaul of old content down the line. I think that keeping the same curve of progression for content that was released years ago while adding new content is a mistake, as you're effectively gating new content making it accessible only to veteran, whereas it's in the developer's best interest that as many people as possible have access to that content.
I never played Champions, but I know that many other MMOS (WoW, AoC, RIFT, WAR, Lotro, ecc...) were not afraid to re-do old content when new expansions came.
http://steamcharts.com/app/109600
You can search all the other MMOs too on steam and compare, I think its one of the most played MMOs on steam if not the most (think planetside 2 has more).
But I'll make an educated guess and quadruple that number which is pretty good activity for a MMO i think. Bear in mind that most steam players do not venture near these forums.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".