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Tyrannical Threat

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  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    I'm not saying that everyone is aware of how do to whatever combo it is that SW are using. Merely that those who do know about it are dropping bosses in seconds. The only question is if the CW can cycle Oppressive Force quickly enough to keep the SW alive. ^_-

    Suicide bomber SW FTW?

    Yeah I was trying to say I wasn't spamming TT like I normally do so that was as close as an answer to your question of what SW damage looks like without TT. Yeah I used it but only on bosses and pulls where we really needed it.

    So I'd say that without TT SW has about MoF level damage.
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Yeah I was trying to say I wasn't spamming TT like I normally do so that was as close as an answer to your question of what SW damage looks like without TT. Yeah I used it but only on bosses and pulls where we really needed it.

    So I'd say that without TT SW has about MoF level damage.

    Gotcha, I can appreciate that having done MoF and SS both. Kind of odd that just one ability is changing SW damage from MoF levels to above Spellstorm, but as everyone says it definitely won't last. I think SW is going to play out almost exactly the same as HR did. I say enjoy it while it lasts!
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    To be absolutely honest I dislike playing with SW for a totally different reason. They absolutely remind me of when HR was first released. They open combat with no CC, glue aggro to themselves, then kite everything away from the rest of the group.
    Reminds me of every burping warrior and ice walling wizard I run across. So mores the same.
    The TT issue only concerns me because it makes bosses an absolute joke. I don't give two red cents about who gets paingiver and I definitely play SS/Thaum CW most of the time.
    TT is hardly doing that, that's more of the wizards and GWFs doing that. And honestly, what next after you get TT cause after you nerfed our damage, which is really all warlocks have, you going to go after warlock's bargain and dreadtheft to? You know with those two powers we make bosses melt as well, but no more than a CW or GWF does. So this feigning that it's entirely theSWs causing it and it being a new thing is laughable.
    In all honesty it would be nice if there was a reason to play an honest-to-god 'Control' spec CW, but frankly without a SS/Thaum in the group SW's damage nosedives into the 'who cares' region. It's a parasitic relationship they have going with actual DPS classes. If damage was calculated 'correctly' I'd be curious to see what SW damage actually looks like. As is, it's really hard to tell without playing one. (And I don't. I'm out of character slots.)

    Without TT my damage is high. Those that rely on TT as a crutch aren't really a big **** deal either. They actually only come out marginally ahead of those that don't use TT.
  • tainteddusktainteddusk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Yep, SW should not be dependent on one spell to do DPS. They should buff the rest of the encounter and dailies along with with adjustment on TT so we can have flexibility on builds. CW is doing way too much damage with so many utilities for crowd control its hard to get into a group against them. They always pick CW over SW. SW SHOULD have more DPS than CW because you can't get invited in a group if you do not excel on something. We don't have anything to show except we are better in dps than any other class. However, crowd control makes everything easier in boss fights that some party even replace a tank with another CW. SW need some love on this matter so we can have a piece of the pie.

    Don't even know what happened to TR and HR, they just disappeared in PVE and only appears in PVP to be CW's moving target like everyone else. Developers must have hated them because of all those drizzt wanna be, running around PE.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Yeah I was trying to say I wasn't spamming TT like I normally do so that was as close as an answer to your question of what SW damage looks like without TT. Yeah I used it but only on bosses and pulls where we really needed it.

    So I'd say that without TT SW has about MoF level damage.
    Except that the MoF was damaging many more targets than the SW, so the SW does higher DPS but to smaller groups - just like the class description says in fact.

    I have a moderately geared Thaum MoF and a lousy geared L51 SW. The SW kills single targets faster but the CW clears large groups faster. Classes seem to be WAI to me.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Except that the MoF was damaging many more targets than the SW, so the SW does higher DPS but to smaller groups - just like the class description says in fact.

    I have a moderately geared Thaum MoF and a lousy geared L51 SW. The SW kills single targets faster but the CW clears large groups faster. Classes seem to be WAI to me.
    This is also true.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    silence1x wrote: »
    I agree that I don't think TT is WAI. I'll also say this - let us have our fun while we can. We all know that it will be nerfed at some point so why rain on our parade? It's our turn :)

    Yes, it's fine to benefit from it- it requires no special exploit. The set up is the same as it would be were it not bugged. Enjoy not being able to see anything but numbers for now! :)

    My issue is the towering intellects who deny there's anything wrong, clearly don't grasp how to read tooltips or combat logs, and claim it's working as intended (and assert, risibly, that bosses like Valindra don't benefit massively from it). Dishonest or merely ignorant? Your call.

    If a Thaum pops an OF inside your TT (settle down at the back), it's basically a tacnuke, if you have three curses and a gift up. Anyone who claims this is WAI is lying or deeply bewildered. They're the sort of people who'd have defended HV buff uberstacking or a party full of Knight's Captain to speed clear CN.

    Meanwhile, it's not like SWs can be expected to not use it. The difference comes with the self-deluding types who don't have a plan B for when it's fixed. The same applies to certain types of CW right now. If the players are any good, the content actually breaks because the scripting of multi-phase fights just can't keep up any more. People trying to claim that it's WAI will also try to sell you a bridge, if you let them :)

    People built for AP gain above all else right now are going to get a nasty shock when TT works anything like the tooltip. Some of the smarter players have already hashed out builds that can stand on their own two feet without depending on TT and almost nothing else.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Yes, it's fine to benefit from it- it requires no special exploit. The set up is the same as it would be were it not bugged. Enjoy not being able to see anything but numbers for now! :)

    My issue is the towering intellects who deny there's anything wrong, clearly don't grasp how to read tooltips or combat logs, and claim it's working as intended (and assert, risibly, that bosses like Valindra don't benefit massively from it). Dishonest or merely ignorant? Your call.

    If a Thaum pops an OF inside your TT (settle down at the back), it's basically a tacnuke, if you have three curses and a gift up. Anyone who claims this is WAI is lying or deeply bewildered. They're the sort of people who'd have defended HV buff uberstacking or a party full of Knight's Captain to speed clear CN.

    Meanwhile, it's not like SWs can be expected to not use it. The difference comes with the self-deluding types who don't have a plan B for when it's fixed. The same applies to certain types of CW right now. If the players are any good, the content actually breaks because the scripting of multi-phase fights just can't keep up any more. People trying to claim that it's WAI will also try to sell you a bridge, if you let them :)

    People built for AP gain above all else right now are going to get a nasty shock when TT works anything like the tooltip. Some of the smarter players have already hashed out builds that can stand on their own two feet without depending on TT and almost nothing else.
    If you think it's bad now you should have seen it on Preview when it still had a chain reaction effect when combined with a Lightning enchant. No need for the CW to get the exact same tacnuke effect.

    The tooltip clearly states that it should only affect targets 'painted' with Tyrannical Curse - so a maximum of three at a time. You should not be melting whole spawns with it, let alone clearing a room.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    If you think it's bad now you should have seen it on Preview when it still had a chain reaction effect when combined with a Lightning enchant. No need for the CW to get the exact same tacnuke effect.

    Yes, I did. I laughed a bit when the exploit-centric specs with lots of AP, little crit and lightning up the wazoo appeared on live. It would have been funnier if the player base weren't often so dim and biddable that the lightning for SW meme has yet to die, so they still resell for a decent amount :D

    That said, I did pick up a couple of cheap GTerror on the basis of what I saw on preview, and those didn't work out, either. I couldn't be bothered to sell when the change hit. One is doing nicely on my High Prophet/glow-happy DC. I might take them to perfect when the double refinement hits, as it works well and looks great- so I don't regret it that much.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Yes, I did. I laughed a bit when the exploit-centric specs with lots of AP, little crit and lightning up the wazoo appeared on live. It would have been funnier if the player base weren't often so dim and biddable that the lightning for SW meme has yet to die, so they still resell for a decent amount :D

    That said, I did pick up a couple of cheap GTerror on the basis of what I saw on preview, and those didn't work out, either. I couldn't be bothered to sell when the change hit. One is doing nicely on my High Prophet/glow-happy DC. I might take them to perfect when the double refinement hits, as it works well and looks great- so I don't regret it that much.

    Was there ever confirmation that terror etc isn't suppossed ot proc creeping death? I ask because things like critical promise also no longer proc it.
  • tainteddusktainteddusk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    LOL alot of CW get butt hurt because SW is leeching damage from them with TT... Who cares where the damage comes from, the fact is, we are doing damage. Getting invited to a party is all about effectiveness of the class in a group and that is what us SW is striving for. CWs are enjoying that pedestal for a long time with their crowd control and high dps. Now one of the class came in (SW) and compete one of their high points that they can provide in a group, and they are crying for nerfs. In my opinion, CW should be nerfed on their damage period.. and buff the damage on other dps classes so they can be effective in a group. There are too many parties right now looking for 2 CWs in a group. One of that spot could be a pure damage dealer but since CW can crowd control and still deal huge dps anyways, who will invite an SW? CW is broken and its no way an SW should be lower or even just a little higher dps than a CW. DPS of a pure damage dealer like SW should be significantly higher damage than CW and should be showing in the charts to promote invites from parties. I know its not all about numbers, it is how a class can contribute to a group, however, if a pure damage dealer cannot contribute the DPS numbers since they cant provide anything else like crowd control, tanking or healing, then the game is broken. Who cares where TT get the numbers as long as it exist and it gets me invited to a group, I'm all for it. Although, I prefer to buff SW on everything else rather than depending on one daily to be effective as a class. I hope they would buff SW even more in the future, I chose SW because i want to see huge numbers on my dps, not to compete with classes with crowd control on DPS charts. Don't even know why CW even exist in PVP, every time someone get CCed, you are pretty much dead because everyone would be like "look someone is getting choked in the air, lets kill him," that is if you are still alive from the CW's skill combos. CW will always be useful in a group as long as Crowd Control exist but they don't need that high damage which they always compare with SW. The classes that SW should be competing with and compared with are other DPS classes like TR and HR but no one cares about them now because CW are on the top of the DPS ladder until SW discovered TT. If TT is broken, they should fix it, but keep the DPS capability of the class.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    My issue is the towering intellects who deny there's anything wrong, clearly don't grasp how to read tooltips or combat logs, and claim it's working as intended (and assert, risibly, that bosses like Valindra don't benefit massively from it). Dishonest or merely ignorant? Your call.

    For someone who likes to say people don't know how to read a tooltip you sure numbering as one of them. If you actually read it says it affects ALL targets in 30 feet, not just those affected by the curse. But hey, keep wearing those blinders.

    in fact here let me write it out for you and highlight the part where you think no one is smarter than you are;
    Temporarily changes your Warlock's Curse class mechanic to Tyrannical Curse.

    Those affected by Tyrannical Curse are damage linked and deal 30% of the damage you deal to them to other targets within 30'.

    So, smart guy, where exactly are people unable to read tooltips at?
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    For someone who likes to say people don't know how to read a tooltip you sure numbering as one of them. If you actually read it says it affects ALL targets in 30 feet, not just those affected by the curse. But hey, keep wearing those blinders.

    They may have changed it then. I last read it on preview, and I do believe that back then it did sound like it only effected marks in the tooltip.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    They may have changed it then. I last read it on preview, and I do believe that back then it did sound like it only effected marks in the tooltip.

    I just copy and pasted and highlighted the exact tooltip from the game. It's been that tooltip since launch.

    Also I had someone using tyrannical threat constantly in a team last night I was with. I still out damaged them and I only used it twice at most. Rest of the time I was using dreadtheft with warlock's bargain and blades. OMG those are OP to, they need to be nerfed don't they. :rolleyes:
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I just copy and pasted and highlighted the exact tooltip from the game. It's been that tooltip since launch.

    Also I had someone using tyrannical threat constantly in a team last night I was with. I still out damaged them and I only used it twice at most. Rest of the time I was using dreadtheft with warlock's bargain and blades. OMG those are OP to, they need to be nerfed don't they. :rolleyes:

    lol yeah, I don't need to spam TT to do good dps either, though it doesn't hurt it either. =P Can't wait to see how much my new wild hunt rider increases things tonight.

    Thinking about the description I think it's the damage link part. Most games when it says something is damage linked it only links the targets it's talking about to each other not to everything else. So I can see where the confusion comes from.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    lol yeah, I don't need to spam TT to do good dps either, though it doesn't hurt it either. =P Can't wait to see how much my new wild hunt rider increases things tonight.

    Thinking about the description I think it's the damage link part. Most games when it says something is damage linked it only links the targets it's talking about to each other not to everything else. So I can see where the confusion comes from.

    Maybe and someone with tyrannical threat rank 3 is dealing 50% damage to all targets. It's WAI, as the description says.
  • tainteddusktainteddusk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    These people probably doesn't play the SW class enough suddenly became an expert and says TT is not working as intended...lol wow.
  • sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    These nerf threads are ridiculous, if people actually read the tool tip they would understand that it is WAI, just because it does good damage doesn't mean it needs a nerf.... Seriously people get off the SW <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and go complain about some other made up bs to justify why your not #1 on the charts and go away!
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    For someone who likes to say people don't know how to read a tooltip you sure numbering as one of them. If you actually read it says it affects ALL targets in 30 feet, not just those affected by the curse. But hey, keep wearing those blinders.

    in fact here let me write it out for you and highlight the part where you think no one is smarter than you are;
    Temporarily changes your Warlock's Curse class mechanic to Tyrannical Curse.

    Those affected by Tyrannical Curse are damage linked and deal 30% of the damage you deal to them to other targets within 30'.

    So, smart guy, where exactly are people unable to read tooltips at?
    Hmmm... That's a stealth buff, right there. The tooltip on Preview said it affected only other Cursed targets, as does the tooltip on NWCalc.

    In any event, the main part you and others are missing is the word YOU in that description. It should only trigger off damage done by the Warlock, not by the entire party. This is the game-breaking aspect of the bug rather than the number of valid targets.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    in fact here let me write it out for you and highlight the part where you think no one is smarter than you are;
    Temporarily changes your Warlock's Curse class mechanic to Tyrannical Curse.

    Those affected by Tyrannical Curse are damage linked and deal 30% of the damage you deal to them to other targets within 30'.

    So, smart guy, where exactly are people unable to read tooltips at?

    Again, thanks for playing. "You" is a tricky concept, I guess.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Maybe and someone with tyrannical threat rank 3 is dealing 50% damage to all targets. It's WAI, as the description says.
    Except that it's damage linking DPS from the entire party rather than just the Warlock. That definitely ISN'T WAI regardless of which version of tooltip you look at.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    These people probably doesn't play the SW class enough suddenly became an expert and says TT is not working as intended...lol wow.
    It's actually the other way around. People who played the SW extensively on Preview when the tooltip read differently and didn't pick up on the change as it's not in any patch notes or dev post anywhere.

    And yes, I did Search to make sure. It's a change that was added between Preview and Live without any announcement or discussion.

    It's also not the main point of the argument, but there you go. It's definitely not WAI and WILL be fixed/nerfed. So enjoy it while you can.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Was there ever confirmation that terror etc isn't suppossed ot proc creeping death? I ask because things like critical promise also no longer proc it.

    I don't honestly know- I heard it from other players, confirmed it with one of my GTerrors, and was too lazy to track down the provenance. I just stole the PVorp that my CW and GWF normally share, as PVorp is a shoe-in for crit-heavy DPS for the most part.

    If you do find the answer, please share, though, as I am a bit curious.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Again, thanks for playing. "You" is a tricky concept, I guess.

    Ah yes, the back peddle.
  • tainteddusktainteddusk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I doubt its going to get nerfed because of "you". "You" to me is too general that it applies to whoever is reading but whatever... It still doesn't change the fact that SW need to do that much DPS and more instead of CW. We barely get invited to a party unless your GS is high enough. CW don't have that problem. Their CC are still very effective at lower GS in dungeons and in pvp.

    The most broken class on this game right now is the CW so that where the nerf should go first instead of some technicalities on the statement. I don't know which is important, fix a broken OP class like CW to balance with the other classes or the "you" technicality because some butt hurt CW came to SW forum and cried. CW class is so broken that every party want at least one or two of them to join.

    No matter what the statement says it is still "WAI" unless cryptic says otherwise. "WAI" is not because of what the statement says but what Cryptic want the skill to be. Unless you got some insider knowledge stop making claims it is not "WAI". Who knows, maybe Cryptic will change that statement instead (which it doesn't need to) so these people will stop crying but they need to fix CW first because that class is game breaking. CW forum is already full of that claim that CW is overpowered because of its CC and high damage. How come these people are not fixing the problem there and come here instead and look at other class' "you" word technicalities?
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Again, thanks for playing. "You" is a tricky concept, I guess.

    Have to say this doesn't mean much.
    You (stressed /ˈjuː/, unstressed /jə/) is the second-person personal pronoun, both singular and plural, and both nominative and oblique case, in Modern English.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

    Now that said I think TT is going to get changed eventually.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It's actually the other way around. People who played the SW extensively on Preview when the tooltip read differently and didn't pick up on the change as it's not in any patch notes or dev post anywhere.

    And yes, I did Search to make sure. It's a change that was added between Preview and Live without any announcement or discussion.

    It's also not the main point of the argument, but there you go. It's definitely not WAI and WILL be fixed/nerfed. So enjoy it while you can.

    I will laugh if the fix is just correcting it so it says whoever strikes the target of the curse. Then where will you be? You interpreted can mean me, and anyone else striking said target.

    And again I posit that I still out damaged a TT spamming warlock last night and I only used TT twice majority of my damage came from dreadtheft, Blades, Phlem and warlock's bargain. And the kicker; I am temptation specced.

    So really, is it just because CWs and GWFs are upset they aren't the top of the heap anymore or is it a real legitimate concern because even without TT I see packs melt constantly thanks to CWs and GWFs. Why is there no cry for nerfing there but all the sudden it's bad mojo a warlock can do EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO.
  • dualisticdualistic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    If it was behaving as intended the tooltip read more along the lines of "..30% of the damage that they recieve".
    The fact that CW's are completely out of control(duh hurr hurr) isn't a valid reason for them to keep a skill "broken".
    It's Forest Ghost all over again(except that daily never disintigrated entire packs with enough party dps), expect a fix.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    dualistic wrote: »
    If it was behaving as intended the tooltip read more along the lines of "..30% of the damage that they recieve".
    The fact that CW's are completely out of control(duh hurr hurr) isn't a valid reason for them to keep a skill "broken".
    It's Forest Ghost all over again(except that daily never disintigrated entire packs with enough party dps), expect a fix.

    And once again I will laugh at all the people saying it's not WAI if the fix is just correcting the tooltip so it reads exactly that. Because You can be interpreted as who is reading the tool tip, which means me, and anyone else that mouses over the debuff.

    But who are we kidding. The CWs and GWFs aren't going to be happy until the damage is actually reduced, so that's probably going to be what happens to satisfy those egos.
  • dualisticdualistic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    And once again I will laugh at all the people saying it's not WAI if the fix is just correcting the tooltip so it reads exactly that. Because You can be interpreted as who is reading the tool tip, which means me, and anyone else that mouses over the debuff.

    But who are we kidding. The CWs and GWFs aren't going to be happy until the damage is actually reduced, so that's probably going to be what happens to satisfy those egos.

    Man you're in denail, get a grip.
    The skill is insanely powerful and works diffirently than the tooltip says, it's unbiased deduction.
    You however are completely biased and defensive, do you really belive "you" can be interpreted like that in this context? I mean really?
    "anyone who mouses over the debuff" It's the skill discription in the frickin powers tab! Ofcourse it's aimed at the person reading it!
    You're just grasping at straws..
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