Remove the hundreds of millions of AD exploited this week or the billions of ad exploited since open beta?
Both would be hard to do without a rollback imo since the exploiters are probably smart enough to move those assets into the economy so innocent players have those as well.
impose a 100M ad cap on all accounts (incl all chars)
delete all AD (ex. rough) above 100M on all accounts.
that would be a good start.
very very few legitimate players have over 100M and those who have 5-10x that amount are almost certainly bot/exploiters.
I don't really feel the need to expand on that, since the idea is ridiculous.
Remove the exploited AD and be done with it.
How exactly do you expect them to do that? Anyone that has sold anything on the AH over the last 6 months most likely ended up with some "exploited AD" in their possession.
impose a 100M ad cap on all accounts (incl all chars)
delete all AD (ex. rough) above 100M on all accounts.
that would be a good start.
very very few legitimate players have over 100M and those who have 5-10x that amount are almost certainly bot/exploiters.
Multiple accounts? (which most smart exploiters probably already have)
I don't think this deters botters/chinese farmers one bit as their model thrives on having thousands of accounts
Multiple accounts? (which most smart exploiters probably already have)
I don't think this deters botters/chinese farmers one bit as their model thrives on having thousands of accounts
An additional point; the scarcer AD becomes the more profitable their business becomes. I still maintain that the quickest way to deal a blow to that 3rd party business is to let Zen float against AD. When 1 million AD costs $20 from Cryptic and takes 10 days+ to deliver, a 3rd party offering that same million AD for $5 and delivers in 30 minutes looks pretty attractive to the people who are willing to take the associated risks.
The best way to hammer AD sellers is to make them unprofitable, anything else is simply a never-ending game of whack-a-mole.
An additional point; the scarcer AD becomes the more profitable their business becomes. I still maintain that the quickest way to deal a blow to that 3rd party business is to let Zen float against AD. When 1 million AD costs $20 from Cryptic and takes 10 days+ to deliver, a 3rd party offering that same million AD for $5 and delivers in 30 minutes looks pretty attractive to the people who are willing to take the associated risks.
The best way to hammer AD sellers is to make them unprofitable, anything else is simply a never-ending game of whack-a-mole.
I think that model is fine as it is.
However, I do believe that the quickest model to abolish those sites is to prevent and FIX (as much as possible) exploiting and botting. These players who exploited sell their AD to 3rd party sites. Sure they are getting ripped off, but when you are able to make 300million AD in a few hours of work this week, do you really care that much when a chinese website lowballs you an offer of 50cents - $1 per 1mil ad on a private skype call?
However, I do believe that the quickest model to abolish those sites is to prevent and FIX (as much as possible) exploiting and botting. These players who exploited sell their AD to 3rd party sites. Sure they are getting ripped off, but when you are able to make 300million AD in a few hours of work this week, do you really care that much when a chinese website lowballs you an offer of 50cents - $1 per 1mil ad on a private skype call?
There's a fair bit of speculation and no corroborating fact present in your repsonse. Yes it's possible, perhaps even likely, that some of the exploited AD found its way to 3rd-party currency houses but I think most of it stayed in the hands of the exploiters or moved through them into the economy.
If no exploited AD was sold to the 3rd party sites they would still not go out of business. 3rd-party currency vendors exist for **** near every MMO with a currency and if certainly isn't all fueled by in-game exploits generating currency that real players are selling to currency houses.
There's a fair bit of speculation and no corroborating fact present in your repsonse. Yes it's possible, perhaps even likely, that some of the exploited AD found its way to 3rd-party currency houses but I think most of it stayed in the hands of the exploiters or moved through them into the economy.
If no exploited AD was sold to the 3rd party sites they would still not go out of business. 3rd-party currency vendors exist for **** near every MMO with a currency and if certainly isn't all fueled by in-game exploits generating currency that real players are selling to currency houses.
It is not speculation, I have personally seen the youtube video and I can attest to the fact that some people did try it out and were discussing it openly on chat hours before the unscheduled patch.
But of course, they conveniently took down the youtube video and any forum posts that directs to it.
Go ask anyone in the know and they can tell you that this really did occur and this isn't just a myth and people did exploit a TON of diamonds.
I didn't mean to say 3rd party sites would go out of business, I'm saying cutting (or slowing) their 2 biggest avenues for their ad supply would be the best possible way to hinder them.
It is not speculation, I have personally seen the youtube video and I can attest to the fact that some people did try it out and were discussing it openly on chat hours before the unscheduled patch.
But of course, they conveniently took down the youtube video and any forum posts that directs to it.
Go ask anyone in the know and they can tell you that this really did occur and this isn't just a myth and people did exploit a TON of diamonds.
I didn't mean to say 3rd party sites would go out of business, I'm saying cutting (or slowing) their 2 biggest avenues for their ad supply would be the best possible way to hinder them.
Hold on, I didn't say the exploit was speculation...I was unclear there. The part I find speculation is the assertion that bunches of exploited AD are fuelign the 3rd party AD supply.
Hold on, I didn't say the exploit was speculation...I was unclear there. The part I find speculation is the assertion that bunches of exploited AD are fuelign the 3rd party AD supply.
I can't say much, but go explore and go look around. People sell to these sites.
What a hillarious post,
"WHy isnt Cryptic stopping botters"
"Why Has PWE done nothing about chinese farmers"
Heres some News for you guys..... YOU CAN NEVER STOP FARMERS AND THIRD PARTY SELLERS IN ANY GAME!
Blizzard the move accomplished and succesfull MMO gaming company in the world, cant do it. You think other's can?
Its inpossible to Stop third party sellers, and farming, and botting in any game you play, so realistically , get used to it, Or move on. sorry to say.
What a hillarious post,
"WHy isnt Cryptic stopping botters"
"Why Has PWE done nothing about chinese farmers"
Heres some News for you guys..... YOU CAN NEVER STOP FARMERS AND THIRD PARTY SELLERS IN ANY GAME!
Blizzard the move accomplished and succesfull MMO gaming company in the world, cant do it. You think other's can?
Its inpossible to Stop third party sellers, and farming, and botting in any game you play, so realistically , get used to it, Or move on. sorry to say.
Actually there is a way to stop it. Ban their customers so that no one buys and be really active with doing so. If their customers aren't here anymore they leave pretty quickly.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited August 2014
Remove the AD/ZEN exchange cap already, it's getting ridiculous.
You want the exchange to be under 500? Then work on the demand/supply factors of AD and Zen so that the price adjusts in that region.
Putting price caps only causes shortages.
Remove the AD/ZEN exchange cap already, it's getting ridiculous.
You want the exchange to be under 500? Then work on the demand/supply factors of AD and Zen so that the price adjusts in that region.
Putting price caps only causes shortages.
Caps protect new and casual players. 10 billion ad for one zen isn't something a new player could deal with and while that's a slight exaggeration it would get to that level of stupid eventually.
Actually there is a way to stop it. Ban their customers so that no one buys and be really active with doing so. If their customers aren't here anymore they leave pretty quickly.
Ban their customers?
That's the problem: who are their customers? How do you make 100% sure the player has bought AD/gold from a seller? They can't. Not even Blizzard can. Period.
Want to start banning players based on suspicions? You know how long it will take for the player-base to disappear after word of that gets around?
That's the problem: who are their customers? How do you make 100% sure the player has bought AD/gold from a seller? They can't. Not even Blizzard can. Period.
Want to start banning players based on suspicions? You know how long it will take for the player-base to disappear after word of that gets around?
Log trades. Log ah use. It's not hard to figure out with good logs.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Caps protect new and casual players. 10 billion ad for one zen isn't something a new player could deal with and while that's a slight exaggeration it would get to that level of stupid eventually.
New and casual players don't need to be protected, the laws of supply and demand should decide the exchange price. Besides, one could argue that in the current situation new and casual players that sell Zen are not being protected as they're selling it for way less than its actual value, that' doesn't seem a valid argument to me.
And nobody could ever deal with 10 billion ad per one zen, nobody, that's why it will never get even remotely close to that.
New and casual players don't need to be protected, the laws of supply and demand should decide the exchange price. Besides, one could argue that in the current situation new and casual players that sell Zen are not being protected as they're selling it for way less than its actual value, that' doesn't seem a valid argument to me.
And nobody could ever deal with 10 billion ad per one zen, nobody, that's why it will never get even remotely close to that.
Really the hyperinflated massively exploited currency is safe for supply in demand? The real world doesn't even protect the vulnerable with supply and demand. Your optimism about the benefits of capitalism and deregulation has no basis in rationality.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
How can you base an exchange rate in a game on the over supply of a massively exploited currency? don't be silly.
If the currency was "massively exploited" as you claim, they would be taking drastic measures like they did in the past (Caturday Rollback and bans). As it stands (even thanks to all the BoP loot that has been introduced), there is nothing that indicates the massive exploits like those days and it only seems a conjecture on your part.
If the currency was "massively exploited" as you claim, they would be taking drastic measures like they did in the past (Caturday Rollback and bans). As it stands (even thanks to all the BoP loot that has been introduced), there is nothing that indicates the massive exploits like those days and it only seems a conjecture on your part.
Lol. Really. That kind of blind faith is bad. They aren't doing anything about it because it helps their short term profits.
Caps protect new and casual players. 10 billion ad for one zen isn't something a new player could deal with and while that's a slight exaggeration it would get to that level of stupid eventually.
Caps protect no one. When you are asked to pay $20 for 1 million Zen, and wait 10 days to 2 weeks in the bargain, with items costs where they are, then the only people you are 'protecting' are the whales who don't care how much money they throw at a game.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Really the hyperinflated massively exploited currency is safe for supply in demand? The real world doesn't even protect the vulnerable with supply and demand. Your optimism about the benefits of capitalism and deregulation has no basis in rationality.
"the hyperinlfated massively exploited currency" was at about 613+ AD per Zen back when Keys were still tradable on the AH. I do not know the current figures (partly because I cannot manage to log in because of the massive lag I'm experiencing these days, and part because I don't know what good is used in lieu of the Enchanted Keys to "smuggle" Zen past the exchange feature). Overreacting much? How much do you think the actual AD/Zen exchange value (the one that would instantly clear the exchange market) is? half a billion? Maybe it has increased, but I can tell you that the enchanted key was the perfect item for Zen Sellers to bypass the Exchange, so if anything, this measure has slowed down the increase at least.
As for the real world, if there is one thing that the real world has thought us is that caps on prices (as structural measures, like in this case) only lead to shortages or black markets, they don't protect anyone from anything. No matter who implemented them, capitalistic nations or not.
Really the hyperinflated massively exploited currency is safe for supply in demand? The real world doesn't even protect the vulnerable with supply and demand. Your optimism about the benefits of capitalism and deregulation has no basis in rationality.
No currency that doesn't float against others in the world market has any validity outside its own borders. That's not capitalism and deregulation, by the way. Letting Zen and AD seek their natural level would fix a lot of this and cut into gold seller business dramatically. The backlog would vanish and the dollars cost of AD would get to something reasonable considering an inflated AD.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Lol. Really. That kind of blind faith is bad. They aren't doing anything about it because it helps their short term profits.
Blind faith? Record History is now blind faith?
Back when there was massive AD exploiting (thanks to AD dupe bugs and best gear being BoE) Cryptic took action, rolled back the server, cleared the auction house, banned several exploiters and started introducing BoP gear to help alleviate the problem. These are facts, not blind faith.
And I'm the one here calling them out to remove the price cap, a decision they took, you're the one defending them on that decision which is now causing more harm than good (if any).
Blind faith? Record History is now blind faith?
Back when there was massive AD exploiting (thanks to AD dupe bugs and best gear being BoE) Cryptic took action, rolled back the server, cleared the auction house, banned several exploiters and started introducing BoP gear to help alleviate the problem. These are facts, not blind faith.
And I'm the one here calling them out to remove the price cap, a decision they took, you're the one defending them on that decision which is now causing more harm than good (if any).
They did that, Then they did nothing for all of the other exploits. That's a losing percentage. And you are calling for the removal of the cap so you can get richer on the back of the new player and the casual.
0
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
They did that, Then they did nothing for all of the other exploits. That's a losing percentage. And you are calling for the removal of the cap so you can get richer on the back of the new player and the casual.
They did nothing for all the other exploits? What about all the fixed boss fights that used to be exploitable like Valindra (had they not decided to go to BoP gear, we would have witnessed another Caturday)? or the set bonus from GF gear that stacked to infinite? They fixed more than just the AD dupe bug, I am sure of that.
As for the second part of your post, well it's just a ridiculous claim based on no evidence. If anything, it's more likely that I do not wish to wait an unreasonable time to get Zen from the exchange. Maybe the new/casual player would receive more AD from me if he were to sell Zen without the cap instead of the actual 500. If I were a Zen Seller I could bypass the exchange with something else, maybe with crafting assets/resources.
No currency that doesn't float against others in the world market has any validity outside its own borders. That's not capitalism and deregulation, by the way. Letting Zen and AD seek their natural level would fix a lot of this and cut into gold seller business dramatically. The backlog would vanish and the dollars cost of AD would get to something reasonable considering an inflated AD.
I wish people would stop saying removing the cap would fix anything.
The cap is there for one reason. So it doesn't cost 1000 or more AD to get 1 zen.
500-1 zen cap= coal wards currently selling for 700+k
750-1= 750k AD to get 1000 zen for one coal ward.
1000-1 zen = 1,000,000 AD to get 1k zen
Removing the cap only allows for even more inflation. Who cares about backlog if everything in the game costs double due to removing the cap?
Also gold sellers would make a killing selling AD as the amount of time to grind AD to get something would double.
I'm sorry but your very mistaken on this. This is not real world economics.
Make coal wards from invoking and tarmalune BoE again and the prices will drop.
The reason there is such a backlog is that people are using zax to make an endless circle of profit selling items that are only found in the zen store BoE. The more profit they make the more zen they buy.
But raising prices on everything in the game to reflect these inflated prices is not the way to go.
No currency that doesn't float against others in the world market has any validity outside its own borders. That's not capitalism and deregulation, by the way. Letting Zen and AD seek their natural level would fix a lot of this and cut into gold seller business dramatically. The backlog would vanish and the dollars cost of AD would get to something reasonable considering an inflated AD.
I have disagree with some of your points.
You bring up real life comparisons which is a horrible point by the way since there are dozens and dozens of sociopolitical factors that come in.
Let me bring up a more recent and relevant example: Diablo 3's real money auction house. As soon as they changed their "ZAX" cap, it did not solve anything. Gold become 10x more worthless within HOURS.
You have to face facts, there is too much exploited AD (and non-exploited for that matter) that whales and 3rd party sites are carrying.
If the currency was "massively exploited" as you claim
I'm not claiming anything ,it's a fact , you know the emergency maintenance they had earlier this week? what do you think that was for? also check reddit , scroll down a little on the first page.
Comments
Remove the hundreds of millions of AD exploited this week or the billions of ad exploited since open beta?
Both would be hard to do without a rollback imo since the exploiters are probably smart enough to move those assets into the economy so innocent players have those as well.
delete all AD (ex. rough) above 100M on all accounts.
that would be a good start.
very very few legitimate players have over 100M and those who have 5-10x that amount are almost certainly bot/exploiters.
How exactly do you expect them to do that? Anyone that has sold anything on the AH over the last 6 months most likely ended up with some "exploited AD" in their possession.
Multiple accounts? (which most smart exploiters probably already have)
I don't think this deters botters/chinese farmers one bit as their model thrives on having thousands of accounts
An additional point; the scarcer AD becomes the more profitable their business becomes. I still maintain that the quickest way to deal a blow to that 3rd party business is to let Zen float against AD. When 1 million AD costs $20 from Cryptic and takes 10 days+ to deliver, a 3rd party offering that same million AD for $5 and delivers in 30 minutes looks pretty attractive to the people who are willing to take the associated risks.
The best way to hammer AD sellers is to make them unprofitable, anything else is simply a never-ending game of whack-a-mole.
I think that model is fine as it is.
However, I do believe that the quickest model to abolish those sites is to prevent and FIX (as much as possible) exploiting and botting. These players who exploited sell their AD to 3rd party sites. Sure they are getting ripped off, but when you are able to make 300million AD in a few hours of work this week, do you really care that much when a chinese website lowballs you an offer of 50cents - $1 per 1mil ad on a private skype call?
There's a fair bit of speculation and no corroborating fact present in your repsonse. Yes it's possible, perhaps even likely, that some of the exploited AD found its way to 3rd-party currency houses but I think most of it stayed in the hands of the exploiters or moved through them into the economy.
If no exploited AD was sold to the 3rd party sites they would still not go out of business. 3rd-party currency vendors exist for **** near every MMO with a currency and if certainly isn't all fueled by in-game exploits generating currency that real players are selling to currency houses.
It is not speculation, I have personally seen the youtube video and I can attest to the fact that some people did try it out and were discussing it openly on chat hours before the unscheduled patch.
But of course, they conveniently took down the youtube video and any forum posts that directs to it.
Go ask anyone in the know and they can tell you that this really did occur and this isn't just a myth and people did exploit a TON of diamonds.
I didn't mean to say 3rd party sites would go out of business, I'm saying cutting (or slowing) their 2 biggest avenues for their ad supply would be the best possible way to hinder them.
Hold on, I didn't say the exploit was speculation...I was unclear there. The part I find speculation is the assertion that bunches of exploited AD are fuelign the 3rd party AD supply.
I can't say much, but go explore and go look around. People sell to these sites.
"WHy isnt Cryptic stopping botters"
"Why Has PWE done nothing about chinese farmers"
Heres some News for you guys..... YOU CAN NEVER STOP FARMERS AND THIRD PARTY SELLERS IN ANY GAME!
Blizzard the move accomplished and succesfull MMO gaming company in the world, cant do it. You think other's can?
Its inpossible to Stop third party sellers, and farming, and botting in any game you play, so realistically , get used to it, Or move on. sorry to say.
You want the exchange to be under 500? Then work on the demand/supply factors of AD and Zen so that the price adjusts in that region.
Putting price caps only causes shortages.
Caps protect new and casual players. 10 billion ad for one zen isn't something a new player could deal with and while that's a slight exaggeration it would get to that level of stupid eventually.
Ban their customers?
That's the problem: who are their customers? How do you make 100% sure the player has bought AD/gold from a seller? They can't. Not even Blizzard can. Period.
Want to start banning players based on suspicions? You know how long it will take for the player-base to disappear after word of that gets around?
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Log trades. Log ah use. It's not hard to figure out with good logs.
New and casual players don't need to be protected, the laws of supply and demand should decide the exchange price. Besides, one could argue that in the current situation new and casual players that sell Zen are not being protected as they're selling it for way less than its actual value, that' doesn't seem a valid argument to me.
And nobody could ever deal with 10 billion ad per one zen, nobody, that's why it will never get even remotely close to that.
How can you base an exchange rate in a game on the over supply of a massively exploited currency? don't be silly.
If the currency was "massively exploited" as you claim, they would be taking drastic measures like they did in the past (Caturday Rollback and bans). As it stands (even thanks to all the BoP loot that has been introduced), there is nothing that indicates the massive exploits like those days and it only seems a conjecture on your part.
Lol. Really. That kind of blind faith is bad. They aren't doing anything about it because it helps their short term profits.
Caps protect no one. When you are asked to pay $20 for 1 million Zen, and wait 10 days to 2 weeks in the bargain, with items costs where they are, then the only people you are 'protecting' are the whales who don't care how much money they throw at a game.
"the hyperinlfated massively exploited currency" was at about 613+ AD per Zen back when Keys were still tradable on the AH. I do not know the current figures (partly because I cannot manage to log in because of the massive lag I'm experiencing these days, and part because I don't know what good is used in lieu of the Enchanted Keys to "smuggle" Zen past the exchange feature). Overreacting much? How much do you think the actual AD/Zen exchange value (the one that would instantly clear the exchange market) is? half a billion? Maybe it has increased, but I can tell you that the enchanted key was the perfect item for Zen Sellers to bypass the Exchange, so if anything, this measure has slowed down the increase at least.
As for the real world, if there is one thing that the real world has thought us is that caps on prices (as structural measures, like in this case) only lead to shortages or black markets, they don't protect anyone from anything. No matter who implemented them, capitalistic nations or not.
No currency that doesn't float against others in the world market has any validity outside its own borders. That's not capitalism and deregulation, by the way. Letting Zen and AD seek their natural level would fix a lot of this and cut into gold seller business dramatically. The backlog would vanish and the dollars cost of AD would get to something reasonable considering an inflated AD.
Blind faith? Record History is now blind faith?
Back when there was massive AD exploiting (thanks to AD dupe bugs and best gear being BoE) Cryptic took action, rolled back the server, cleared the auction house, banned several exploiters and started introducing BoP gear to help alleviate the problem. These are facts, not blind faith.
And I'm the one here calling them out to remove the price cap, a decision they took, you're the one defending them on that decision which is now causing more harm than good (if any).
They did nothing for all the other exploits? What about all the fixed boss fights that used to be exploitable like Valindra (had they not decided to go to BoP gear, we would have witnessed another Caturday)? or the set bonus from GF gear that stacked to infinite? They fixed more than just the AD dupe bug, I am sure of that.
As for the second part of your post, well it's just a ridiculous claim based on no evidence. If anything, it's more likely that I do not wish to wait an unreasonable time to get Zen from the exchange. Maybe the new/casual player would receive more AD from me if he were to sell Zen without the cap instead of the actual 500. If I were a Zen Seller I could bypass the exchange with something else, maybe with crafting assets/resources.
I wish people would stop saying removing the cap would fix anything.
The cap is there for one reason. So it doesn't cost 1000 or more AD to get 1 zen.
500-1 zen cap= coal wards currently selling for 700+k
750-1= 750k AD to get 1000 zen for one coal ward.
1000-1 zen = 1,000,000 AD to get 1k zen
Removing the cap only allows for even more inflation. Who cares about backlog if everything in the game costs double due to removing the cap?
Also gold sellers would make a killing selling AD as the amount of time to grind AD to get something would double.
I'm sorry but your very mistaken on this. This is not real world economics.
Make coal wards from invoking and tarmalune BoE again and the prices will drop.
The reason there is such a backlog is that people are using zax to make an endless circle of profit selling items that are only found in the zen store BoE. The more profit they make the more zen they buy.
But raising prices on everything in the game to reflect these inflated prices is not the way to go.
I have disagree with some of your points.
You bring up real life comparisons which is a horrible point by the way since there are dozens and dozens of sociopolitical factors that come in.
Let me bring up a more recent and relevant example: Diablo 3's real money auction house. As soon as they changed their "ZAX" cap, it did not solve anything. Gold become 10x more worthless within HOURS.
You have to face facts, there is too much exploited AD (and non-exploited for that matter) that whales and 3rd party sites are carrying.
I'm not claiming anything ,it's a fact , you know the emergency maintenance they had earlier this week? what do you think that was for? also check reddit , scroll down a little on the first page.