GWF are also tanker , we need same amount of health as GF , give us same amount of bonus from constitution as GF , cause GF are doing more damage than GWF , with 1 cycle more than half of sent GWF health is gone by all classes including GF.
You are wrong. Indomitable Battle Strike description: "Savagely strike your target to shows your other foes the fate that awaits them. After killing a target with this strike, you gain bonus Action Point, and nearby enemies are briefly Marked.
Marked targets take additonal physical damage until they attack you."
again IV (20+15% dmg increase via At-will power) is superior to Swordmaster. Who's is proper DPS paragon?
thats why Weapon Master Strike MUST HAVE marking ability.
GWF are also tanker , we need same amount of health as GF , give us same amount of bonus from constitution as GF , cause GF are doing more damage than GWF , with 1 cycle more than half of sent GWF health is gone by all classes including GF.
well 3% hp from const would be enough for GWF
anyway i find it funny with new belts,kits GF ill reach 70k hp and they can pretty much perma block on preview so gl killing 1
anyway i find it funny with new belts,kits GF ill reach 70k hp and they can pretty much perma block on preview so gl killing 1
more funny thing is GWF armor and artifact weapon sucks big time.
every1 weapon are getting so good bonuses and GWF stuck with reaping strike and wicked strike and not on full strike but 3rd and 4th strike. which in PVP is not possible so they r as useless as an anything module 4 is giving GWF,
GWF got the shortest end of stick in mod 4 . not single good thing for GWF to expect from it.
now mod 4 is not as exciting as it sounds to be 1 month ago.
more funny thing is GWF armor and artifact weapon sucks big time.
every1 weapon are getting so good bonuses and GWF stuck with reaping strike and wicked strike and not on full strike but 3rd and 4th strike. which in PVP is not possible so they r as useless as an anything module 4 is giving GWF,
GWF got the shortest end of stick in mod 4 . not single good thing for GWF to expect from it.
now mod 4 is not as exciting as it sounds to be 1 month ago.
yea a ve seen that, i also would like to know why least used atwills have wai better bonuses on artifact weps for GWF
Well, i just re-read this thread again from start... and, as i said on the "feedback" thread, MOST OF YOU are just asking/suggesting buffs for IV's path... IF you keep going this way, then, DEVs should just remove the SM paragon path from GWF-class and it will fix the problem here.
If you dont belive me, tell me all the changes on SM path encounters/class features/at-wills... the only one mentioned were the WMS damage buff yet other skills are totally ignored.
This is manily because these nerfs will proably have more impact in PVP then in PVE, and ppl just dont use SM in PVP since IV is way better atm.
Then, as i said, devs just should remove the SM paragon path... and everyone will be happy, right?
I dont play PVE at all so i dont remember to much about the SM except it has no real good gapcloser as the IV path has. It probably needs buffed but with the buffs to all other classes GWF dont need any nerfs, rather the opposit.
ok! thnx for the info , the preview didnt had any of those legendary info.
but rage still suck , reaping strike meh cant use in PVP.
and armor still suck.
I still think that Armour of Bahamut and plate agility should be mooved deeper in the protector tree, or everyone will just go conqueror and take these 2 feats to minmax offense and defense.
armor of bahamut is not as good as you think it is the buff only last like 2-3 seconds however it would be better to get plate agaility and the AC one
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited July 2014
I highly doubt they will increase Deep Gash, it's a 5% dmg boost in the overal dps which is ok for a t1 feat according to Crush, however, I would be glad if it were increased based in our Power stat.
I highly doubt they will increase Deep Gash, it's a 5% dmg boost in the overal dps which is ok for a t1 feat according to Crush, however, I would be glad if it were increased based in our Power stat.
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
i know, dont say the obvious, but as we wanted to be fair with GWF from live being nerfed, somethin in another part of the world happened? other classes got real buffed, as we tried to make the game more balanced sayin it's ok to nerf that... other classes got so buffed that you can't even compete with them anymore... if in this new week there won't be any updates to gwf i doubt there will be any GWF in pvp.
and that %5 in ACT is because u have 12.5 k power without any buffs , and you are a PVE done that test in PVE where you kill adds... that doesn't mean it can't be buffed for PVP reasons...
and if you say its a PVE feat...than tell me what are the PVP feats...as there aren't any chooseable feats that can compete with other classes.
and all classes have DOT in PVP, and deep gash is the only one for gwf..
LE:
change Intimidation feat instead of 50% threat, it shold be 50% reduced cooldowns
make either come and get or darring shout to be unblocked.
make that the damage from daring shout / come and get it ,should consider the marks increased damage.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
I still think that Armour of Bahamut and plate agility should be mooved deeper in the protector tree, or everyone will just go conqueror and take these 2 feats to minmax offense and defense.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I agree - I really like the bahamut more than the deflect now, but they are such low numbers that it doesn't really matter. Protector's big deal is reduced drain of stamina, and the capstone poc'n off KV. If the feats did anything significant (not many GF feats do) - I can see it being moved a little deeper, but the middle protector tree is just soo mehhhh, and the Tact Capstone is just not very good atm.
armor of bahumut isnt worth the 5 points the buff is so sort for me to even consider taking it while it sounds nice i think ill be skipping this on unless they increase the buff duration.
however as protector i will be getting deflect ac shield stam and im not sure if i would go brawling and the sos one and extra 5% dr reduction on sos hits is pretty decent and obviously the capstone now that guarded assault and kv proc it.
kinda wondering if im going down that route to even skip the capstone and go 3 in protector and 3 in something else which would leave 1 point somewhere who knows most of our feats are not all that appealing
Apart from the lack of gap closing options, also the removal of ANY PRONE from a melee class with no immunities or stealth and the removal of roar original effect of rooting just kills the class.
Takedown nerfed in damage and no prone. Which is an indirect nerf to IBS damage too.
Removed root from roar. Another useless power and no real ranged cc for squishy destroyers who are now even squishier due to unstoppable (class mechaninc) double nerf (determination gain much slower, which could be ok, if they did not nerf the mechanic itself for the whole class).
Destroyer purpose useless in PvP since a destroyer will never last long enough to hit the enemy and will just be chasing the enemies non-stop, hitting them very few times.
Slower determination gain= less unstoppable would have been enough for unstoppable.
Also, damage nerf to takedown and fix to roar would have been enough.
And TR charges.
Nothing else. But they nerfed everything to the ground.
Right now you struggle to catch the CWs with their faster and more teleports, or the perma TRs, and when you catch them, you stun them for 1 second or so, hit with a pathetic IBS that usually gets deflected against the halfling PvP tank builds, then start again.
In the meanwhile, the enemies deal you a TON of damage.
I think the changes are appropriate. Instead of being the single best or tied-for-best class option for every single gameplay scenario, GWFs will now be performing a role and some other classes will actually be better then them at some things.
In PVP, they will maintain their status as the best class to have fighting alongside you, but will not be the best 1v1.
In PVE they will remain great.
This is good for class diversity. If anything, they're still too good considering not many classes are so great in PVE and PVP, but overall it seems like good changes.
The only concern I have is that GF has been buffed so much it's just replaced GWF as "the best class" for "everything".
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP. Have you tested a GWF on preview or are you just talking out of speculations?
It's still "too good"? Please, go test it in PvP...
Feedback:
tested against HR: have to lose 50% HP to have 8 seconds 30% DR unstoppable. This is not acceptable for a class mechanic, and pretty much a lot worse than any other class tab skill. Increase determination gain so that GWFs can have full determination bar with 35% HPs removed. Considering any other class have tab skill at no cost, it's a bit too much of a nerf if a GWF must lose so much health to be able to use its class mechanic.
Again: sprint is not reliable for defense and gap closing the way it is now. Tested it with 1k movement and all stamina regeneration boons and stuff. You can pretty much use it to cover what any ranged class can do with dodge moves plus a little bit more which is NOT enough to close gap, defend and close gap again when the enemy dodges. It is pretty much enough to close gap and chase the dodging enemy a couple of times. Not to defend, and not enough to chase the tons of dodges HRs and CWs have, or chase a perma TR. Plus, the delay makes it not good to use it for defense.
Make it a short bursts move like punishing charge, with enough bursts to close the gap and chase the enemy, leaving a bit of room to use it defensively. Remove CC immunity from it if you buff determination gain.
Give back 1 prone to the class or remove prones from all the other classes. It's laughable that a HR or CW can prone me, but once i catch them, i can briefly stun them and that's it. Seriously, a little melee HR can prone a heavy GWF, and a GWF crushing down his 2h weapon on the TR...stuns him for a little more than 1 second.
Stun duration increase will not change the fact that every other class got a buff, and GWFs got a double nerf on damage. The GWF takes a lot of damage to be able to catch the enemy. When he does reach the enemy, he has that 1 power, IBS, to deal a heavy blow. Now it's a normal blow at best. Which means the enemy lands approximatively 10 normal blows on you before you can land 1 normal blow on him.
You should either make the GWF a class able to deal a heavy blow but struggling more than in mod3 to catch the enemy, OR a class able to land normal blows but that can catch the enemy easily.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
in pve ; with half power of my gwf, my ranger, t1 weapon has a Aimed higher than my ibs full stack (16.8 non critical).
and now, less resistant (what is the excuse now?)
The power you have on that HR isn't all that bad really. It's hard to get power in PVP gear. So you're looking at about what any HR is going to do with Aimed Shot... in ARCHERY spec, meaning they'll be the squishiest class in PVP if specced that way.
Not to mention the main buff that's giving you that damage is CUT IN HALF against players. And you have to hit someone first to apply Prey (the debuff), meaning any chance of surprise which is your best shot of using Aimed Shot is gone.
No need for an excuse, on anyone in PVP it's going to do tons less damage than on a dummy, not to mention Aimed Shot is almost impossible to use in PVP because if someone breathes on you while casting you get interrupted.
You can't interrupt IBS.
tl:dr You'll almost never be able to hit anyone with Aimed Shot in actual PVP, and if you're specced that way, you'll be dead before you can.
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP.
No class can burst DPS as fast as a Destroyer thanks to IBS. That isn't changing. It's just a matter of being able to hit with it. If you can't manage to CC someone yourself, then follow up on someone else's CC.
GWF can provide great CC or great DPS to compliment whatever anyone else is bringing.
The 1v1 specialists (HR and TR) don't bring either, really, especially not CC, and nowhere near the burst potential.
The stuns are not useless against HRs at least because we have no CC-break. CW's don't either.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
Sounds balanced to you?
I'm talking about group play here in Domination, which is what most of Domination consists of. 1v1 scenarios don't matter except on a node, and I don't think it's a problem if other classes are better suited for that aspect of the game.
Like I said I think overall it has potential to be good changes for the game, unless GF's buffs were too much, in which case instead of seeing teams with 4 GWFs we'll just see teams of 4 GFs.
I did a comparison in reference to pve. I'm not arguing about pvp.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
I did a comparison in reference to pve. I'm not arguing about pvp.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
OK well in PVE yes that's nice damage, but it's single target. HRs have almost no AOE abilities.
Agree with determination from % of HP, 30-33% for full bar, 15-17% for half bar. Right now, it's too much damage taken to use a nerfed unstoppable for 8 seconds. My latest test is 17-20k HP against a HR hitting me with some mixed attacks. Leaves a ton of room to slow the burst and pretty much never allow a GWF to go Unstoppable, while keeping healing depression up.
It's a class mechanic, and you nerfed it too much.
To give a good PvP move to SM too:
allow punishing charge to stun the target for 3 seconds if it lands. It's a short burst and other classes can just move away to avoid it. But at least would be a "proactive" way to close gap and catch enemies.
Or either make flourish viable. Aka: fast animation so that it cannot be easily dodged/ parried cause the animation allows the other classes to see it coming and make it crush on their immunity moves.
give Weapon Master Strike marking ability.
give bravery +15% deflect back.
Comments
thats why Weapon Master Strike MUST HAVE marking ability.
well 3% hp from const would be enough for GWF
anyway i find it funny with new belts,kits GF ill reach 70k hp and they can pretty much perma block on preview so gl killing 1
more funny thing is GWF armor and artifact weapon sucks big time.
every1 weapon are getting so good bonuses and GWF stuck with reaping strike and wicked strike and not on full strike but 3rd and 4th strike. which in PVP is not possible so they r as useless as an anything module 4 is giving GWF,
GWF got the shortest end of stick in mod 4 . not single good thing for GWF to expect from it.
now mod 4 is not as exciting as it sounds to be 1 month ago.
yea a ve seen that, i also would like to know why least used atwills have wai better bonuses on artifact weps for GWF
This is manily because these nerfs will proably have more impact in PVP then in PVE, and ppl just dont use SM in PVP since IV is way better atm.
or let us use both paths at once
I dont play PVE at all so i dont remember to much about the SM except it has no real good gapcloser as the IV path has. It probably needs buffed but with the buffs to all other classes GWF dont need any nerfs, rather the opposit.
but rage still suck , reaping strike meh cant use in PVP.
and armor still suck.
armor of bahamut is not as good as you think it is the buff only last like 2-3 seconds however it would be better to get plate agaility and the AC one
Trade it for Reaping Strike *_*.
Dead🔪GWF vs TR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGu27KA1P48
GWF vs HR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIOqjqmBgE
GWF vs GF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIFPI6Yegk8
the build is as shown in pics
(http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...=1#post8522571)
some lag is there but u will see GWF cant do ****.
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
i know, dont say the obvious, but as we wanted to be fair with GWF from live being nerfed, somethin in another part of the world happened? other classes got real buffed, as we tried to make the game more balanced sayin it's ok to nerf that... other classes got so buffed that you can't even compete with them anymore... if in this new week there won't be any updates to gwf i doubt there will be any GWF in pvp.
and that %5 in ACT is because u have 12.5 k power without any buffs , and you are a PVE done that test in PVE where you kill adds... that doesn't mean it can't be buffed for PVP reasons...
and if you say its a PVE feat...than tell me what are the PVP feats...as there aren't any chooseable feats that can compete with other classes.
and all classes have DOT in PVP, and deep gash is the only one for gwf..
LE:
change Intimidation feat instead of 50% threat, it shold be 50% reduced cooldowns
make either come and get or darring shout to be unblocked.
make that the damage from daring shout / come and get it ,should consider the marks increased damage.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I agree - I really like the bahamut more than the deflect now, but they are such low numbers that it doesn't really matter. Protector's big deal is reduced drain of stamina, and the capstone poc'n off KV. If the feats did anything significant (not many GF feats do) - I can see it being moved a little deeper, but the middle protector tree is just soo mehhhh, and the Tact Capstone is just not very good atm.
however as protector i will be getting deflect ac shield stam and im not sure if i would go brawling and the sos one and extra 5% dr reduction on sos hits is pretty decent and obviously the capstone now that guarded assault and kv proc it.
kinda wondering if im going down that route to even skip the capstone and go 3 in protector and 3 in something else which would leave 1 point somewhere who knows most of our feats are not all that appealing
Takedown nerfed in damage and no prone. Which is an indirect nerf to IBS damage too.
Removed root from roar. Another useless power and no real ranged cc for squishy destroyers who are now even squishier due to unstoppable (class mechaninc) double nerf (determination gain much slower, which could be ok, if they did not nerf the mechanic itself for the whole class).
Destroyer purpose useless in PvP since a destroyer will never last long enough to hit the enemy and will just be chasing the enemies non-stop, hitting them very few times.
Slower determination gain= less unstoppable would have been enough for unstoppable.
Also, damage nerf to takedown and fix to roar would have been enough.
And TR charges.
Nothing else. But they nerfed everything to the ground.
Right now you struggle to catch the CWs with their faster and more teleports, or the perma TRs, and when you catch them, you stun them for 1 second or so, hit with a pathetic IBS that usually gets deflected against the halfling PvP tank builds, then start again.
In the meanwhile, the enemies deal you a TON of damage.
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP. Have you tested a GWF on preview or are you just talking out of speculations?
It's still "too good"? Please, go test it in PvP...
Feedback:
tested against HR: have to lose 50% HP to have 8 seconds 30% DR unstoppable. This is not acceptable for a class mechanic, and pretty much a lot worse than any other class tab skill. Increase determination gain so that GWFs can have full determination bar with 35% HPs removed. Considering any other class have tab skill at no cost, it's a bit too much of a nerf if a GWF must lose so much health to be able to use its class mechanic.
Again: sprint is not reliable for defense and gap closing the way it is now. Tested it with 1k movement and all stamina regeneration boons and stuff. You can pretty much use it to cover what any ranged class can do with dodge moves plus a little bit more which is NOT enough to close gap, defend and close gap again when the enemy dodges. It is pretty much enough to close gap and chase the dodging enemy a couple of times. Not to defend, and not enough to chase the tons of dodges HRs and CWs have, or chase a perma TR. Plus, the delay makes it not good to use it for defense.
Make it a short bursts move like punishing charge, with enough bursts to close the gap and chase the enemy, leaving a bit of room to use it defensively. Remove CC immunity from it if you buff determination gain.
Give back 1 prone to the class or remove prones from all the other classes. It's laughable that a HR or CW can prone me, but once i catch them, i can briefly stun them and that's it. Seriously, a little melee HR can prone a heavy GWF, and a GWF crushing down his 2h weapon on the TR...stuns him for a little more than 1 second.
Stun duration increase will not change the fact that every other class got a buff, and GWFs got a double nerf on damage. The GWF takes a lot of damage to be able to catch the enemy. When he does reach the enemy, he has that 1 power, IBS, to deal a heavy blow. Now it's a normal blow at best. Which means the enemy lands approximatively 10 normal blows on you before you can land 1 normal blow on him.
You should either make the GWF a class able to deal a heavy blow but struggling more than in mod3 to catch the enemy, OR a class able to land normal blows but that can catch the enemy easily.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
Sounds balanced to you?
The power you have on that HR isn't all that bad really. It's hard to get power in PVP gear. So you're looking at about what any HR is going to do with Aimed Shot... in ARCHERY spec, meaning they'll be the squishiest class in PVP if specced that way.
Not to mention the main buff that's giving you that damage is CUT IN HALF against players. And you have to hit someone first to apply Prey (the debuff), meaning any chance of surprise which is your best shot of using Aimed Shot is gone.
No need for an excuse, on anyone in PVP it's going to do tons less damage than on a dummy, not to mention Aimed Shot is almost impossible to use in PVP because if someone breathes on you while casting you get interrupted.
You can't interrupt IBS.
tl:dr You'll almost never be able to hit anyone with Aimed Shot in actual PVP, and if you're specced that way, you'll be dead before you can.
No class can burst DPS as fast as a Destroyer thanks to IBS. That isn't changing. It's just a matter of being able to hit with it. If you can't manage to CC someone yourself, then follow up on someone else's CC.
GWF can provide great CC or great DPS to compliment whatever anyone else is bringing.
The 1v1 specialists (HR and TR) don't bring either, really, especially not CC, and nowhere near the burst potential.
The stuns are not useless against HRs at least because we have no CC-break. CW's don't either.
I'm talking about group play here in Domination, which is what most of Domination consists of. 1v1 scenarios don't matter except on a node, and I don't think it's a problem if other classes are better suited for that aspect of the game.
Like I said I think overall it has potential to be good changes for the game, unless GF's buffs were too much, in which case instead of seeing teams with 4 GWFs we'll just see teams of 4 GFs.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
OK well in PVE yes that's nice damage, but it's single target. HRs have almost no AOE abilities.
give Weapon Master Strike marking ability.
give bravery +15% deflect back.