leave focused destroyer feat alone w,o it swordmaster wouldnt even stand a chance in pvp or pve, SM would do 0 dmg.
TO be frank Cookie, I dont think there is going to be a way to balance SM in mod 4 atm. SM needs some love on the GWF side forsure, but the way things are going it SO out of wack, id rather them bring GWFs back in line for PVE and PVP purposes (even if its just IV right now) and THEN look at buffing up SM path by adding mark to an ability as well as buffing damage of flourish + a few other ideas.
But my exeperience with changes is that if we ask for too many at once, it doesnt get listened too, so im trying to focus on the MAIN issues of the class right now, get those brought back in line with the other classes than to try and compare IV and SM paths for GWF in PVP atm.
This is simply not enough its a big disadvantage for pvp,
more charges is Really needed!
for example like
Threatening Rush: 3 Charges 9s charge refill / compared to TR charges its this a joke
Cload of Stell: 8 Charges 3s charge refill / fast and more charges
we will not have a chance to catch our opponents or land a hit if it stays that way.
the main reason is our opponents got high & bether Dodge-Skill and more faster.
Improve Threatening Rush to 6-8Charges and reduce the charge refill to 3s
Im fine with 3 charges IF GWFs get other forms of control (see my post about takedown prone Roar Daze and keeping FLS stun - this would be enough combined with TR charges - especially now that mark is perma for 20 seconds... talk about a DPS boost!)
But we DO need some control back... seriously.... Unstoppable is nerfed - fine. Control is nerfed - fine.
Takedown - needs a prone
Roar - needs "some" CC - not just "interrupt" as that rarely benefits in PVP. A 1 sec daze I think is plenty and with CC resist (tenacity/halflings/elven enchant/ shield CW master etc) itll be more like .5-.6 sec on Daze - just enough to be still mildly useful but not OP.
remove sprint Immunity - its just cheesy.
Powerful Challenge needs to be a Sent feat only!
Id still like a small nerf to "destroyer" T4 feat to 10% chance to proc off ANY attack - hurts this for PVP only.
Im fine with 3 charges IF GWFs get other forms of control (see my post about takedown prone Roar Daze and keeping FLS stun - this would be enough combined with TR charges - especially now that mark is perma for 20 seconds... talk about a DPS boost!)
But we DO need some control back... seriously.... Unstoppable is nerfed - fine. Control is nerfed - fine.
Takedown - needs a prone
Roar - needs "some" CC - not just "interrupt" as that rarely benefits in PVP. A 1 sec daze I think is plenty and with CC resist (tenacity/halflings/elven enchant/ shield CW master etc) itll be more like .5-.6 sec on Daze - just enough to be still mildly useful but not OP.
remove sprint Immunity - its just cheesy.
Powerful Challenge needs to be a Sent feat only!
Id still like a small nerf to "destroyer" T4 feat to 10% chance to proc off ANY attack - hurts this for PVP only.
You guys think if we keep at this long enough, keep repeating and explaining the same over and over they'll actually listen ? Is this the way it works ? Seriously do the devs simply respond to the "loudest noise" ? That is so wrong. Something as significant as these huge class changes can't simply be made because a group of people spammed the forums. Honestly if this is how changes are made than this game looses points big time. Developers should be the people who best know how their game works, best know what roles the classes fill and how they interact. How about it Crush, for instance were you already planning the GF buffs before the GFs playerbase got forum active ?
I mean really, all you need in order to evaluate how balanced yuor classes are is watch some dominations or better yet participate in a few dozen matches with every class. You'll see whats what
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You guys think if we keep at this long enough, keep repeating and explaining the same over and over they'll actually listen ? Is this the way it works ? Seriously do the devs simply respond to the "loudest noise" ? That is so wrong. Something as significant as these huge class changes can't simply be made because a group of people spammed the forums. Honestly if this is how changes are made than this game looses points big time. Developers should be the people who best know how their game works, best know what roles the classes fill and how they interact. How about it Crush, for instance were you already planning the GF buffs before the GFs playerbase got forum active ?
I mean really, all you need in order to evaluate how balanced yuor classes are is watch some dominations or better yet participate in a few dozen matches with every class. You'll see whats what
While I am in the same boat as everyone here - being really frustrated... From a DEV perspective, look at all the BAD suggestions that are here in the thread... How would Crush know what needs to be done in high lvl PVP to make things balanced as well as in PVE?
Thats the issue, so while I do agree with you 100%, I think SOME patience is warranted since its only 1 guy trying to do ALL these changes himself. As much as you, or I, or Tyrion (Tolkienbuff) can suggest the correct changes, its gotta be tested and to be frank, I dont think their test team is really capable of testing "top tier pvp" gameplay. So things might seem fine at the "ground level" and its only up in the clouds that you really notice a few screws are loose and your plane is taking a nose dive!
So lets (myself included) try and be patient and provide quality control on the ground before takeoff and point out which screws are loose and hopefully he will pay attention!
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
You guys think if we keep at this long enough, keep repeating and explaining the same over and over they'll actually listen ? Is this the way it works ? Seriously do the devs simply respond to the "loudest noise" ? That is so wrong. Something as significant as these huge class changes can't simply be made because a group of people spammed the forums. Honestly if this is how changes are made than this game looses points big time. Developers should be the people who best know how their game works, best know what roles the classes fill and how they interact. How about it Crush, for instance were you already planning the GF buffs before the GFs playerbase got forum active ?
I mean really, all you need in order to evaluate how balanced yuor classes are is watch some dominations or better yet participate in a few dozen matches with every class. You'll see whats what
Also i think Crush know GWF TR DC GF SW is weak vs CW and HR but they dont have the time or more programers to fix those problems. This is why i ask for minor fix ,think and wish or suggest smal things
mybe they can do it.
like this : all stuns for GWf 0.5 sec more 20 % more faster IBS.
That is amazing, now Indomitable Battle strike will also increase GWF damage by 20% in PVP. Awesome (not)!!! And add the 10-15% damage from flanking, that's 20-35% for the GWF and 18-23% for allies. I guess Mod 4 will also be GWF's Module? (:
Definitely not going to be tr and dc module. We will be their companions tho
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
That is amazing, now Indomitable Battle strike will also increase GWF damage by 20% in PVP. Awesome (not)!!! And add the 10-15% damage from flanking, that's 20-35% for the GWF and 18-23% for allies. I guess Mod 4 will also be GWF's Module? (:
? What
IBS dont apply mark automatically only if he can kill somone. Have you ever see IBS mark effecting 20 feet?
It have a smal radius mybe 3-5 feat.
This have zero effect on pvp also what you cant hit you cant kill.
This modul will be the HR & CW modul.
While I am in the same boat as everyone here - being really frustrated... From a DEV perspective, look at all the BAD suggestions that are here in the thread... How would Crush know what needs to be done in high lvl PVP to make things balanced as well as in PVE?
Thats the issue, so while I do agree with you 100%, I think SOME patience is warranted since its only 1 guy trying to do ALL these changes himself. As much as you, or I, or Tyrion (Tolkienbuff) can suggest the correct changes, its gotta be tested and to be frank, I dont think their test team is really capable of testing "top tier pvp" gameplay. So things might seem fine at the "ground level" and its only up in the clouds that you really notice a few screws are loose and your plane is taking a nose dive!
So lets (myself included) try and be patient and provide quality control on the ground before takeoff and point out which screws are loose and hopefully he will pay attention!
Let's focus on what "every" GWF is agreeing to then.
1. GWF needs at least one prone, preferably with takedown
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classes
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
Let's focus on what "every" GWF is agreeing to then.
1. GWF needs at least one prone, preferably with takedown
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classes
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
Yepp correct but i dont think they will revers the nerfs or change anything too much work .
If i can pick one then i voite for :1. GWF needs at least one prone, preferably with takedown
I think with this change we all will be happy and stop asking anithing .
I just want to be fine not owerpowered .
GWF will have a fine spot in pve .
Let's focus on what "every" GWF is agreeing to then.
Ill revise your list and my comments will be in Green as to WHY
1. GWF needs at least one prone, DEFINITELY with takedown - AGREED! FLS is a paragon specific + AOE so it shouldnt be THE prone.
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was Disagree - NOW that GWFs get more dmg with mark, I think this will be roughly a wash as to TOTAL dmg lost and total damage gained (across all abilities)
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank Sents DPS will be good NOW with mark changes, Powerful Challenge needs to be atleast T3+ to prevent Destroyers from getting it. Destroyers dont need more tanky, IF given more controls
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter. IBS is fine, Flourish needs a DPS boost AND faster animation.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible If DEVs put control back on Roar (1 sec Daze) I think 3 charges is fine. They also gave more sprint which helps too, Im fine with TR charges TBH IF we get more control (prone + roar)
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classesYes Sprint CC immune needs to go. Its really dumb
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective. Agreed. Imagine a GF with Knights Valor eating HALF IBS damage, its a super long CD and hard to hit. CWs have more CC, they were the only class with issues around GWFs.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
Ill revise your list and my comments will be in Green as to WHY
1. GWF needs at least one prone, DEFINITELY with takedown - AGREED! FLS is a paragon specific + AOE so it shouldnt be THE prone.
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was Disagree - NOW that GWFs get more dmg with mark, I think this will be roughly a wash as to TOTAL dmg lost and total damage gained (across all abilities)
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank Sents DPS will be good NOW with mark changes, Powerful Challenge needs to be atleast T3+ to prevent Destroyers from getting it. Destroyers dont need more tanky, IF given more controls
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter. IBS is fine, Flourish needs a DPS boost AND faster animation.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible If DEVs put control back on Roar (1 sec Daze) I think 3 charges is fine. They also gave more sprint which helps too, Im fine with TR charges TBH IF we get more control (prone + roar)
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classesYes Sprint CC immune needs to go. Its really dumb
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective. Agreed. Imagine a GF with Knights Valor eating HALF IBS damage, its a super long CD and hard to hit. CWs have more CC, they were the only class with issues around GWFs.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
Ill revise your list and my comments will be in Green as to WHY
1. GWF needs at least one prone, DEFINITELY with takedown - AGREED! FLS is a paragon specific + AOE so it shouldnt be THE prone.
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was Disagree - NOW that GWFs get more dmg with mark, I think this will be roughly a wash as to TOTAL dmg lost and total damage gained (across all abilities)
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank Sents DPS will be good NOW with mark changes, Powerful Challenge needs to be atleast T3+ to prevent Destroyers from getting it. Destroyers dont need more tanky, IF given more controls
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter. IBS is fine, Flourish needs a DPS boost AND faster animation.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible If DEVs put control back on Roar (1 sec Daze) I think 3 charges is fine. They also gave more sprint which helps too, Im fine with TR charges TBH IF we get more control (prone + roar)
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classesYes Sprint CC immune needs to go. Its really dumb
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective. Agreed. Imagine a GF with Knights Valor eating HALF IBS damage, its a super long CD and hard to hit. CWs have more CC, they were the only class with issues around GWFs.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
I agree with all of those except I do think takedown's damage should be returned to how it is on live.
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ill revise your list and my comments will be in Green as to WHY
1. GWF needs at least one prone, DEFINITELY with takedown - AGREED! FLS is a paragon specific + AOE so it shouldnt be THE prone.
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was Disagree - NOW that GWFs get more dmg with mark, I think this will be roughly a wash as to TOTAL dmg lost and total damage gained (across all abilities)
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank Sents DPS will be good NOW with mark changes, Powerful Challenge needs to be atleast T3+ to prevent Destroyers from getting it. Destroyers dont need more tanky, IF given more controls
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter. IBS is fine, Flourish needs a DPS boost AND faster animation.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible If DEVs put control back on Roar (1 sec Daze) I think 3 charges is fine. They also gave more sprint which helps too, Im fine with TR charges TBH IF we get more control (prone + roar)
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classesYes Sprint CC immune needs to go. Its really dumb
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective. Agreed. Imagine a GF with Knights Valor eating HALF IBS damage, its a super long CD and hard to hit. CWs have more CC, they were the only class with issues around GWFs.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
So let's refine this list and give it to Crush. Based on everyone's responses:
Version 2 (after feedback)
1. GWF needs prone with Takedown
2. Flourish needs faster animation.
3. Roar needs to be given it's control (1 sec Daze)
Reasons: It acts as a gap closer since threatening rush has only 3 charges
4. IBS needs damage buff as other classes have been buffed, because it is a high CD encounter.
Most of us agree to this? GWF only. This way we can give Crush a solid response of what we may need.
Personal opinion: I don't think 3 charges are sufficient gap closer. As a Sentinel I am thinking
TR > IBS > TD > FLS - but I feel there is too much escape mechanism coming from other classes. I would prefer not to use the roar, even it if had that 1 sec daze. Honestly I would be uncomfortable with TR > IBS if it misses - and there is a lot of ways to escape it. It will have a big impact on us. The stun does very little.
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited July 2014
Takedown either prone or daze effect, even though Crush already mentioned that prone is too much.
Flourish faster animation, agree.
Roar - daze or a strong slow effect (Your opponent is terrified, unable to move at normal pace)
IBS under the right conditions hits very hard, if the dmg is increased it would bring just more QQ.
Considering how bad is that threatening rush have only 3 charges (this isn't longer an At-will) what about an increase to the run speed in Bravery? I think that the TR won't be changed, even less now that the mark is going to give us a lot more of dmg so looking for another option like extra speed might be viable.
Can someone please explain why everyone is suggesting Daze? From my understanding of it, its just a weaker version of a stun since the enemy can still move while dazed.
And what "every" GWF seems to want is to retain the status quo where GWFs are too good against some classes in PvP or even boost GWFs, not balance them. 1. and 2. No, GWFs do not *need* a prone. GWFs have more cc resistance than other classes; having both that and tons of cc has proven very problematic.
3. They are trying to distinguish the roles of these two paths more, not less. Destroyers were too tanky as is in the current version for the amount of damage they could do.
4. IBS does not need a shorter animation, unless it gets a damage nerf to accompany that.
5. GWFs have other tools than just Threatening Rush to close gaps. Use Sprint too. Slot Bravery for higher base movement speed. And get teammates to apply cc if necessary.
6. Yes, they need to remove the cc immunity while sprinting. It's not a good idea.
7. They should not give GWFs all the benefits GFs recently got for their mark. If the aim is to boost marks to improve *Sentinel* quality of life as tanks in dungeons, make that a benefit that only Sentinels can get; revert GWF marks to an 8% damage boost with no added combat advantage, and add sticky marks to the Sentinel capstone feat instead.
And what "every" GWF seems to want is to retain the status quo where GWFs are too good against some classes in PvP or even boost GWFs, not balance them. 1. and 2. No, GWFs do not *need* a prone. GWFs have more cc resistance than other classes; having both that and tons of cc has proven very problematic.
3. They are trying to distinguish the roles of these two paths more, not less. Destroyers were too tanky as is in the current version for the amount of damage they could do.
4. IBS does not need a shorter animation, unless it gets a damage nerf to accompany that.
5. GWFs have other tools than just Threatening Rush to close gaps. Use Sprint too. Slot Bravery for higher base movement speed. And get teammates to apply cc if necessary.
6. Yes, they need to remove the cc immunity while sprinting. It's not a good idea.
7. They should not give GWFs all the benefits GFs recently got for their mark. If the aim is to boost marks to improve *Sentinel* quality of life as tanks in dungeons, make that a benefit that only Sentinels can get; revert GWF marks to an 8% damage boost with no added combat advantage, and add sticky marks to the Sentinel capstone feat instead.
where did all those GFs that were comparing GWF to GF for the last half year gone now? :rolleyes:
GWFs were never super OP on live in mod3.
The perception is wrong and the assumptions bases in those perceptions are false.
Only the low-mid gear casual pvp players had unsolvable problems with them.
The only real issue was bugged roar and its crazy cooldown reduction. Just a fix of that would have balanced things quite niceley.
Now removing all cc from gwf (these stuns are bareley noticeable with pvp gear and spec) and making him less tanky AND reducing his dmg is killing the class.
The new gained mobility is nice but doesnt help if you cant kill things.
Right now, on preview, gwfs are just flys buzzing around wielding a silly big paper sword and armor. At least, that feels that way when I am either on my HR, CW or TR. On live they are a challenge. On preview, not!
GWFs were never super OP on live in mod3.
The perception is wrong and the assumptions bases in those perceptions are false. Only the low-mid gear casual pvp players had unsolvable problems with them.
So only the vast majority of PvP players? Well that's OK then. :rolleyes:
so i was testing GWF aginst all possible players i can find in icewind pass,
and when i was PVP against all ranged players threatning rush was useless , cause every 9 sec we get threatning rush charge , but according to DEV we shld have gotten 3 charges every 9 sec . meaning every 3 sec our charge get recharged but thats not happening , or if its intended like that then its clearly not enough. need threatning rush charge to recharge every 3 sec.
1 attack of GF depletes my life by 1 quater , everytime a GF uses there encounter well u can hope what happens to GWF health , either u keep running around use pots and artifact than go attack him, which clearly not good enough cause i die soon after my stamina depletes. takedown and frontline surge damage is too low compare to any other class. FYI i m using sentinel and takedown doesnt do **** for me. neeed dmg buff on takedown and frontline surge , or reduce the CD for FS. need prone on takedown. i will upload video with players soon enough , even a CW with 27k health killed me , i had 41k health .
so plz tell me how to fight a CW cause ur nerfs are degrading the class, and if DEV think its clearly enough plz come to preview fight a CW and win against him .
So you want takedown prone and spammable threatening rush back? That's pretty mod 3 gwfs, let's face it, you just wanna be able to crush all CWs like now....I have tested on preview server, a gwf can still do 30k+ dmg in 1 rotation against my 38k HP DC with astral shield, so damage buff? NO
So you want takedown prone and spammable threatening rush back? That's pretty mod 3 gwfs, let's face it, you just wanna be able to crush all CWs like now....I have tested on preview server, a gwf can still do 30k+ dmg in 1 rotation against my 38k HP DC with astral shield, so damage buff? NO
since there are no changes for DC u rarely go to preview , for 1nce goto preview and icewind pass PVP area and look carefully to what sent GWF is facing there , u are talking about destro GWF so ofc there dps is that much , but a sent GWF dmg is so **** that he cant even decrease the health of HR,GF,CW by 1 quater b4 dying.
non GWF have been coming to forums and whinning and made GWF so ****ty that its nothing in PVP.
So only the vast majority of PvP players? Well that's OK then. :rolleyes:
Too bad the "vast majority" of players usually don't know a thing about how to build or play a PvP toon. But still, they have the arrogance to assume their experience is enough to ask for nerfs of something they do not know.
I'd understand if this "vast majority" of players would come here and ask for tips from more experienced players, and then follow them like i did when i was a newbie player. But it's not what happens. Peopke just want what they do not understand taken away so that it's easier for them to get what they want. Or they greatly overestimate their ability in PvP and use it as the unit to measure if a class is OP or not.
Example: permastealth. I used to get crushed by them, unable to fight them. Asked for tips, followed them. Most of the stuff was experience, footwork and outhinking the enemy. Plus some knowledge of how perma mechanics work. And now i can fight most permas on equal ground.
Your "vast majority" of players, instead, come on the forums and say "delete permastealth from game plz it's too OP".
Same is with most GWF complaints. As someone else said, a couple of fixes would have been enough, plus power ups for other classes. Yet, devs went for a total rework and a tidal wave of nerfs. And the fact that your "vast majority" of *cough cough newbie* players, most not even playing a GWF toon, are so happy about them, is pretty much a proof that there's something wrong.
And i'm pretty much sure that once GWFs will be an easy target in PvP, these players will feel like they are winning with "skills" and not cause the class got messed up.
Changes in PvP must be done taking into account the suggestions from veteran PvPers. The newbie mass only confuses things and when they write on the forums it's a compendium of bad knowledge of the enemy AND of their own class in PvP, and lack of experience.
0
someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
That is amazing, now Indomitable Battle strike (and Threatning Rush) will also increase GWF damage by 20% in PVP. Awesome (not)!!! And add the 10-15% damage from flanking, that's 20-35% for the GWF and 18-23% for allies. I guess Mod 4 will also be GWF's Module? (:
18-23% for allies. How?
You are wrong. Indomitable Battle Strike description: "Savagely strike your target to shows your other foes the fate that awaits them. After killing a target with this strike, you gain bonus Action Point, and nearby enemies are briefly Marked.
Marked targets take additonal physical damage until they attack you."
(This post must be here even if this is not "technical feedback", sorry mods):
DEV Crush, you have a really big problem: Your team and you are just focusing on Iron Vanguard's Paragon Path, leaving Swordmaster's paragon path untouched. You should look into Swordmaster's Paragon path often and really deep, due all these changes are clearly meant for IV, not for SM, so, please, look into SM (the change on WMS is really insufficient) path!!!!! OR, as a lot of GWFs said: remove IV from GWF class and make real paths for both GWF class and GF class
again IV (20+15% dmg increase via At-will power) is superior to Swordmaster. Who's is proper DPS paragon?
Comments
TO be frank Cookie, I dont think there is going to be a way to balance SM in mod 4 atm. SM needs some love on the GWF side forsure, but the way things are going it SO out of wack, id rather them bring GWFs back in line for PVE and PVP purposes (even if its just IV right now) and THEN look at buffing up SM path by adding mark to an ability as well as buffing damage of flourish + a few other ideas.
But my exeperience with changes is that if we ask for too many at once, it doesnt get listened too, so im trying to focus on the MAIN issues of the class right now, get those brought back in line with the other classes than to try and compare IV and SM paths for GWF in PVP atm.
Im fine with 3 charges IF GWFs get other forms of control (see my post about takedown prone Roar Daze and keeping FLS stun - this would be enough combined with TR charges - especially now that mark is perma for 20 seconds... talk about a DPS boost!)
But we DO need some control back... seriously.... Unstoppable is nerfed - fine. Control is nerfed - fine.
Takedown - needs a prone
Roar - needs "some" CC - not just "interrupt" as that rarely benefits in PVP. A 1 sec daze I think is plenty and with CC resist (tenacity/halflings/elven enchant/ shield CW master etc) itll be more like .5-.6 sec on Daze - just enough to be still mildly useful but not OP.
remove sprint Immunity - its just cheesy.
Powerful Challenge needs to be a Sent feat only!
Id still like a small nerf to "destroyer" T4 feat to 10% chance to proc off ANY attack - hurts this for PVP only.
You guys think if we keep at this long enough, keep repeating and explaining the same over and over they'll actually listen ? Is this the way it works ? Seriously do the devs simply respond to the "loudest noise" ? That is so wrong. Something as significant as these huge class changes can't simply be made because a group of people spammed the forums. Honestly if this is how changes are made than this game looses points big time. Developers should be the people who best know how their game works, best know what roles the classes fill and how they interact. How about it Crush, for instance were you already planning the GF buffs before the GFs playerbase got forum active ?
I mean really, all you need in order to evaluate how balanced yuor classes are is watch some dominations or better yet participate in a few dozen matches with every class. You'll see whats what
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
While I am in the same boat as everyone here - being really frustrated... From a DEV perspective, look at all the BAD suggestions that are here in the thread... How would Crush know what needs to be done in high lvl PVP to make things balanced as well as in PVE?
Thats the issue, so while I do agree with you 100%, I think SOME patience is warranted since its only 1 guy trying to do ALL these changes himself. As much as you, or I, or Tyrion (Tolkienbuff) can suggest the correct changes, its gotta be tested and to be frank, I dont think their test team is really capable of testing "top tier pvp" gameplay. So things might seem fine at the "ground level" and its only up in the clouds that you really notice a few screws are loose and your plane is taking a nose dive!
So lets (myself included) try and be patient and provide quality control on the ground before takeoff and point out which screws are loose and hopefully he will pay attention!
If you think Crush cant play this game you are total wrong just look at this match.
http://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld_community/b/548892597
Also i think Crush know GWF TR DC GF SW is weak vs CW and HR but they dont have the time or more programers to fix those problems. This is why i ask for minor fix ,think and wish or suggest smal things
mybe they can do it.
like this : all stuns for GWf 0.5 sec more 20 % more faster IBS.
Definitely not going to be tr and dc module. We will be their companions tho
? What
IBS dont apply mark automatically only if he can kill somone. Have you ever see IBS mark effecting 20 feet?
It have a smal radius mybe 3-5 feat.
This have zero effect on pvp also what you cant hit you cant kill.
This modul will be the HR & CW modul.
Let's focus on what "every" GWF is agreeing to then.
1. GWF needs at least one prone, preferably with takedown
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classes
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Yepp correct but i dont think they will revers the nerfs or change anything too much work .
If i can pick one then i voite for :1. GWF needs at least one prone, preferably with takedown
I think with this change we all will be happy and stop asking anithing .
I just want to be fine not owerpowered .
GWF will have a fine spot in pve .
Ill revise your list and my comments will be in Green as to WHY
1. GWF needs at least one prone, DEFINITELY with takedown - AGREED! FLS is a paragon specific + AOE so it shouldnt be THE prone.
2. Takedown damage should be reversed to what it was Disagree - NOW that GWFs get more dmg with mark, I think this will be roughly a wash as to TOTAL dmg lost and total damage gained (across all abilities)
3. Sentinels dps is too low, Destroyer needs more tank Sents DPS will be good NOW with mark changes, Powerful Challenge needs to be atleast T3+ to prevent Destroyers from getting it. Destroyers dont need more tanky, IF given more controls
4. IBS & Flourish animation needs to be shorter. IBS is fine, Flourish needs a DPS boost AND faster animation.
5. The 3 charge on threatening rush isn't sufficient to close gaps between HR/CW and TF going invisible If DEVs put control back on Roar (1 sec Daze) I think 3 charges is fine. They also gave more sprint which helps too, Im fine with TR charges TBH IF we get more control (prone + roar)
6. Although Sprint without CC sounds great, however - the starting takes time - and by this time you will get cced by other classesYes Sprint CC immune needs to go. Its really dumb
All other classes are buffed to an extent where IBS isn't as effective. Agreed. Imagine a GF with Knights Valor eating HALF IBS damage, its a super long CD and hard to hit. CWs have more CC, they were the only class with issues around GWFs.
I think every GWF will agree to this. Am I correct?
Nop.
/10 char.
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
Best rapper 2014
Alpha female
.
I agree with all of those except I do think takedown's damage should be returned to how it is on live.
So let's refine this list and give it to Crush. Based on everyone's responses:
Version 2 (after feedback)
1. GWF needs prone with Takedown
2. Flourish needs faster animation.
3. Roar needs to be given it's control (1 sec Daze)
Reasons: It acts as a gap closer since threatening rush has only 3 charges
4. IBS needs damage buff as other classes have been buffed, because it is a high CD encounter.
Most of us agree to this? GWF only. This way we can give Crush a solid response of what we may need.
Personal opinion: I don't think 3 charges are sufficient gap closer. As a Sentinel I am thinking
TR > IBS > TD > FLS - but I feel there is too much escape mechanism coming from other classes. I would prefer not to use the roar, even it if had that 1 sec daze. Honestly I would be uncomfortable with TR > IBS if it misses - and there is a lot of ways to escape it. It will have a big impact on us. The stun does very little.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
This, a million times this.
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
Best rapper 2014
Alpha female
where did all those GFs that were comparing GWF to GF for the last half year gone now? :rolleyes:
The perception is wrong and the assumptions bases in those perceptions are false.
Only the low-mid gear casual pvp players had unsolvable problems with them.
The only real issue was bugged roar and its crazy cooldown reduction. Just a fix of that would have balanced things quite niceley.
Now removing all cc from gwf (these stuns are bareley noticeable with pvp gear and spec) and making him less tanky AND reducing his dmg is killing the class.
The new gained mobility is nice but doesnt help if you cant kill things.
Right now, on preview, gwfs are just flys buzzing around wielding a silly big paper sword and armor. At least, that feels that way when I am either on my HR, CW or TR. On live they are a challenge. On preview, not!
Suggestion: undo ALL CHANGES except the roar fix!
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have no prone at all anymore in pvp ?
So you want takedown prone and spammable threatening rush back? That's pretty mod 3 gwfs, let's face it, you just wanna be able to crush all CWs like now....I have tested on preview server, a gwf can still do 30k+ dmg in 1 rotation against my 38k HP DC with astral shield, so damage buff? NO
non GWF have been coming to forums and whinning and made GWF so ****ty that its nothing in PVP.
Too bad the "vast majority" of players usually don't know a thing about how to build or play a PvP toon. But still, they have the arrogance to assume their experience is enough to ask for nerfs of something they do not know.
I'd understand if this "vast majority" of players would come here and ask for tips from more experienced players, and then follow them like i did when i was a newbie player. But it's not what happens. Peopke just want what they do not understand taken away so that it's easier for them to get what they want. Or they greatly overestimate their ability in PvP and use it as the unit to measure if a class is OP or not.
Example: permastealth. I used to get crushed by them, unable to fight them. Asked for tips, followed them. Most of the stuff was experience, footwork and outhinking the enemy. Plus some knowledge of how perma mechanics work. And now i can fight most permas on equal ground.
Your "vast majority" of players, instead, come on the forums and say "delete permastealth from game plz it's too OP".
Same is with most GWF complaints. As someone else said, a couple of fixes would have been enough, plus power ups for other classes. Yet, devs went for a total rework and a tidal wave of nerfs. And the fact that your "vast majority" of *cough cough newbie* players, most not even playing a GWF toon, are so happy about them, is pretty much a proof that there's something wrong.
And i'm pretty much sure that once GWFs will be an easy target in PvP, these players will feel like they are winning with "skills" and not cause the class got messed up.
Changes in PvP must be done taking into account the suggestions from veteran PvPers. The newbie mass only confuses things and when they write on the forums it's a compendium of bad knowledge of the enemy AND of their own class in PvP, and lack of experience.
You are wrong.
Indomitable Battle Strike description: "Savagely strike your target to shows your other foes the fate that awaits them. After killing a target with this strike, you gain bonus Action Point, and nearby enemies are briefly Marked.
Marked targets take additonal physical damage until they attack you."
again IV (20+15% dmg increase via At-will power) is superior to Swordmaster. Who's is proper DPS paragon?
Dead🔪