in any case, such a delay, after restoring the strike there is a short pause. do not know if connected to a certain amount of damage, whether it is casual, or just a random lag that eventually helps the gwf. but is the explanation I found.
ps:increase the quality of video.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Aren't you being a little selfish? The GWF was never meant to be the aggro generator. That was the GF's job from the beginning. They are fixing it so that the GF is the only class that can generate aggro well (aside from the cw).
Pls look at GWF sentinel tree before y say i am selfish . Agro and treath generation boost over agro and treath generation boost but i think mybe all of them bugged or idk but not working at all ,also i have gf and her threat is not working too .
Only viable option is now to outdps any one to keep agro this is not rigth.
This is a bug in the math. I have fixed it locally and it should be heading to preview this week.
As far as goals for these changes, there are actually a few primary goals here.
First, SoS and Deep Gash were both far more powerful than any other options at T1 and therefore were required choices by every single GWF regardless of spec. This isn't good for the health of the class or balance changes.
Secondly, The Destroyer tree really struggled to compete with the other trees in terms of being unique because the large portion of the damage any GWF dealt was coming from Deep Gash, which was not functioning as intended.
Third, we are ratcheting back the highest damage sources a bit to make other classes more competitive rather than trying to buff everyone else to that level because dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon. A better comparison would be to TR at this time.
We want the three feat trees to feel distinct, but fixing a broken feat should not stop the other feat trees from working, and this belies some far more serious issues with those trees as well as some core issues with identity in the Instigator tree. These are things we would like to fix, but we have to get damage and broken feats in line before we make those changes because otherwise we won't have the right information to make those changes.
problem is new power will buff up cws massivly and after huge dps nerf and lose of all utilly noone will want gwf in team any more cws used to be superior to dps and utily to gwf even before mod 3 but after it they will dominate by far
can u at least remove almost 100% up time from eye of the storm on spellstorm cw this is broken op and makes them broken op ty it they do few times better dps then mof
There is also this huge problem that's called CW. These damage monsters make it unable to truly evaluate the abilities of tanks to hold aggro at the moment. I take every report of this and that player unable to hold aggro with a grain of salt. The other aggro magnet Split Shot is toned down a bit so this will certainly help tanks as well.
Have you played with Hunters?
They do much more aggro than cws...
Destroyer feat- Great Weapon Focus needs a buff to 5/10/15/20/25% at will dmg its a joke that GWF have probly worst atwill dmg with greatsword as weapon
GWfs just get another +3% dmg to passive and another stats to get power form.
Now its def, recovery, armor pen has 20-25% power...
Roar was just buffed preparing for the next module to make unstopable fest.
If you can't get enough dmg from it. Well maybe some testing needed!
Destroyer feat- Great Weapon Focus needs a buff to 5/10/15/20/25% at will dmg its a joke that GWF have probly worst atwill dmg with greatsword as weapon
damage of at aoe at wills should be improved by 200 and of sure strike by 350 at lest
but main reason for failure of gwf is 5 target caps on encounters and joke of damage and way to low ap gain on class as whole
can u pls improve spining strike its damage and target caps are to low it is not worth to cast at all since it dose less damage then unsstopable at wills would do in the same time
i would really like to know WHY THE F... is our at-will damage so pathetic, it makes no sense at all, tr at wills do 3x the damage with tiny toothpicks, gf do more with 1h sword
can u pls improve spining strike its damage and target caps are to low it is not worth to cast at all since it dose less damage then unsstopable at wills would do in the same time
Honestly what I would LOVE to see this daily become much stronger. If they upped the damage caps, AND increased duration - I think this could be a very attractive balance to the class IMO.
When I first saw this I thought it was amazing until I saw it was only 3 seconds long... Something LIKE this would make it a good daily for GWFs...
If they made it so the damage per SINGLE target was say 75% of the damage of Indom STR then the damage on hitting TWO targets would be 50% more with ALL the hits.
I think this could then be a good filler inbetween encounters - but thats one thing to consider. Some Dailies like Slam dont require much "down time" from at will or encounters, so the damage MUST take into account the LOSS of damage IF able to use at wills or encounters.
Another thing I would love to see changed as well is Avalanche of Steel.
- This daily I should be able to press the daily again and control WHEN I come clamming down. I can either make this a quick daily or a LONG daily depending on the situation. Sometimes I use this as an "escape" from damage for a few seconds, sometimes I wish it were much much faster since it gives alot of time for classes to escape out of it....
i would really like to know WHY THE F... is our at-will damage so pathetic, it makes no sense at all, tr at wills do 3x the damage with tiny toothpicks, gf do more with 1h sword
Reduce the speed of each hit by 60%, and double the damage of each hit or MORE! Right now my tool tip damage says "565-678" on Sure Strike.
My GF Crushing Surge says "1279-1522" how is it a BIG 2h weapon deals 1/3rd the damage?
My TR says "1177-1418" HECK CLOUD OF STEEL says "549-661"
So your telling me, a 2h Sword in your face attack deals about the same damage as a small dagger thrown from a distance?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
I get Sure Strike has a fast attack - so slow it down ALOT but beef up the damage ALOT! (Sure stats affect the above, but THAT MUCH?!) Its ridiculous.
If you SLOW down Sure Strike by even 50%, But give it like 3-4x the damage! This at will should say something around, "1600-1900" More than the GF at will thats forsure...
I mean Look at what happens when I take off weapons:
Sure Strike should be on par with Crushing Surge or ATLEAST Cleave which is 127-127...
Again I realize stats come into play here... But that is rather silly its that big a difference.
I actually am starting to wonder if ALL at will damage was boosted on GWFs if this would fix a major part of their issue in both PVP and PVE.
I mean Heck Wicked Strike is 52-52 with no weapon for heavens sake! Its speed is VERY slow AND damage is reduced based on targets hit...
Just TEsted a FULL charged Reaping Strike on IWD mobs and its doing about the same as my Sure Strike damage, but it takes a few seconds to charge up - How does that help in aoe fights? I can spam Sure Strike and get 4 hits in 2 seconds or charge for 2 seconds and hit 4-5 mobs for about the same damage?! If I have an AOE at will It should be a clear advantage to use that in AOE fights over my single target - not to mention the final hit can hit multiple?
It makes no sense.
NOW is the time to fix these things if your looking at them Crush!
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited April 2014
Father Odin why Loki hit like a mad Truck with knifes & Freya Kill millions from 1 spell ?
Why Thor the migthy warrior with Mjolnir The best weapon ever crafted by Dwarfs hit like workhammer?
By the sons of Asgard what a hell is wrong with us what have we done wrong father why you doom us?
You say we must go in the front line to kill monster with single blow and protect the weak from certain death .
Reduce the speed of each hit by 60%, and double the damage of each hit or MORE! Right now my tool tip damage says "565-678" on Sure Strike.
My GF Crushing Surge says "1279-1522" how is it a BIG 2h weapon deals 1/3rd the damage?
My TR says "1177-1418" HECK CLOUD OF STEEL says "549-661"
So your telling me, a 2h Sword in your face attack deals about the same damage as a small dagger thrown from a distance?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
I get Sure Strike has a fast attack - so slow it down ALOT but beef up the damage ALOT! (Sure stats affect the above, but THAT MUCH?!) Its ridiculous.
If you SLOW down Sure Strike by even 50%, But give it like 3-4x the damage! This at will should say something around, "1600-1900" More than the GF at will thats forsure...
I mean Look at what happens when I take off weapons:
Sure Strike should be on par with Crushing Surge or ATLEAST Cleave which is 127-127...
Again I realize stats come into play here... But that is rather silly its that big a difference.
I actually am starting to wonder if ALL at will damage was boosted on GWFs if this would fix a major part of their issue in both PVP and PVE.
I mean Heck Wicked Strike is 52-52 with no weapon for heavens sake! Its speed is VERY slow AND damage is reduced based on targets hit...
Just TEsted a FULL charged Reaping Strike on IWD mobs and its doing about the same as my Sure Strike damage, but it takes a few seconds to charge up - How does that help in aoe fights? I can spam Sure Strike and get 4 hits in 2 seconds or charge for 2 seconds and hit 4-5 mobs for about the same damage?! If I have an AOE at will It should be a clear advantage to use that in AOE fights over my single target - not to mention the final hit can hit multiple?
It makes no sense.
NOW is the time to fix these things if your looking at them Crush!
HELL NO!
i wouldnt even play GWF if at will was thaaat slow i do rather keep the dmg at current atk speed instead.
Yep, hard to figure why the devs did not raise the base damage of weapons/atwills/encounters/dailies instead of coming up with this over-elaborate construction of 20 or 40 stacks. Of course a 2h sword should deliver more damage than a 1h sword or a dagger.
GCrush keeps repeating that DG was too high, but hey that's what all the community said from the beginning, and after all who are the guys who implemented the DG boost in mod2?
GWF needs direct damage, base damage, something in line with what a Melee DPS class should be. Not yet another indirect addition with a not-DnD, counter-intuitive, situational building of stacks, a system that looks good only on paper.
HELL NO!
i wouldnt even play GWF if at will was thaaat slow i do rather keep the dmg at current atk speed instead.
Its just an idea to get across a concept. Just asking for flat buffs across the board rarely bodes well.
I think of it like this...
The lighter the weapon the faster you should be able to swing it and the less damage PER swing it should deal correct? I mean being "realistic" is the argument why GWF AOE at wills have diminished damage for additional targets hit...
So it SHOULD be TR - fast hitting smaller daggers. (I wont get into how they have 2 here) - again just a concept
GF - one hand sword, not AS high top end, slower than TR but higher at will dmg.
GWF - 2h GREATWEAPON - Hits like a truck, much slower than both the above.
I would SUGGEST, GWF attack speed can mirror that of a GF (another fighter) which each at will is THREE successive attacks, but slightly slower.
Currently the GWF at will attacks LIKE a "dagger" its fast and hits like a wet noodle. I would DEFINITELY be more interested in a slower attacks that hits like a truck.
Reaping Strike should hit LIKE "aimed shot" for hunters, I mean they are similar....
Sure Strike should be slowed down - maybe 40% is too much, maybe just slow it down 25% but its hard to ask for a "realistic" effect in making it hot for like 1500+ AND having it really fast and 4 hits.... Thats just flat OP.
Making it half the speed, but hits 3x as hard - now thats more realistic AND a DPS boost, however you also lose mobility so its a tradeoff.
1 - see all these stacks + bf start working properly with the critical ... and I hope this "bug" is also not fixed in some class win another super buff.
2 - the end of secret nerfs, as canceling the sure strike this mysterious unstoppable that seems down fast in combat.
established a point where things are what they should be and not what it seems, will be possible to give a legitimate feedback, including the losses or disadvantages are some compensation.
which is irreducible is that no melee class is adapted to the new content, which is a paradox given the thousands of complaints about the designe of the dungeons which disadvantage a certain papers like a defender.
Unstoppable Recovery(heal 5% hp when activating unstoppable) not decrease from Healing Depression. Gwf with 40-45k hp will be heal at 2-2.2k hp every time, when activating unstoppable. And i think gwf has a lot of deflection: Scale Agility - 5%; Master at Arms - 2-10%;Bravery(passive) - 9%. It's not fair, when class have 24% deflect from passive and feats.
Unstoppable Recovery(heal 5% hp when activating unstoppable) not decrease from Healing Depression. Gwf with 40-45k hp will be heal at 2-2.2k hp every time, when activating unstoppable. And i think gwf has a lot of deflection: Scale Agility - 5%; Master at Arms - 2-10%;Bravery(passive) - 9%. It's not fair, when class have 24% deflect from passive and feats.
Yeap, let's turn GWF into non-damaging defenseless punching dummy once again. They already did first part of it.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
In Domination PvP with Hotenow/Rivenscar Ruins? I'd say they are definitely lower then what they were, depending on build/skill level of course.
In Open World Icewind Dale PvP? My testing is showing them to still be competitive, IMO.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a PvP Expert. I'm just a guy who has played a lot of GWF in PvE/PvP on live and Test Shard, that's all.
I guess it depends on what you mean by competitive....
For Hotenow/Rivenscare the only reason they were OP on LIVE (and still behind a well played HR/TR) is because they could face tank alot of damage and dish out alot of damage.
Deep Gash nerf and SOS nerf essentially cut Sents damage on average around 35%+. So now Sentinels are just facetanks who cant do anything. Sure they can TRY and contest however now that they cant 1v1 down a HR/TR/DC/GF - its pretty easy to stalemate them - considering there are alot of TR/HRs Sents basically just lost their value added as a backcapper.
In Zone PVP: Again sure they can facetank, however their damage (again) is so pitiful they wont really be able to do alot. In fact the only saving grace right now for Sents is the Blacksmith companion because his damage reflection is so high, a Sent can pray that they just outlive their opponent enough to have blacksmith reflect enough damage back for a competitive match.
I took my Sent GWF who ROCKS atm on live and tested him in zone pvp against an HR. I couldnt even out DPS his self healing from the 4/4 set. I played him match after after - absolutely pathetic.
I swapped over to Destroyer and it was night and day difference. I lost a little tankiness, but my damage output was (seemed to me) double. The HR was like "wtf did you do" because it actually was a competitive fight.
So what I would say is:
Sentinels really are dead...
If you are a GWF your only real hope in being effective means rolling Destroyer. While this may be viable in Zone PVP. I have yet to test in Domination.
Considering the OPness of HRs and TRs at this point, I dont see what a Dest GWF could bring to the table in a highly competitive matchup that would really help the game. Maybe they will pick up the "roam DPS" roll since hey are somewhat hard to CC, and now their damage is higher? I dont know....
Thats just my experience playing GWF both on LIVE and on PTR....
that will be 15% dodge and 10% dmg reduction... that is not rly a little
well you can still get the 5% deflect if you want (I didnt) and the other feat is only 10% max stacks. your also forgetting the 5AC which is 2.5% DR.
So 15% deflect and more like 12.5% DR.... BUt in the grand scheme of things, it matters much less than you think. With unstoppable putting you well over the top of Dim Returns as a Sent, Now im fairly close to the cap as a Destroyer.
Factor in tenacity ontop of that though and the difference isnt much THAT much.
Plus the fact that roar and takedown have less CD, means you prone more often means you take damage less often. Ontop of that Roar gives determination which allows you to pop unstoppable more often so....
If we played a game of "sit still and face tank" you would notice a big difference. But if you played a game of 1v1 - the Destroyer will win hands down because the damage output he gets over Sents COMPARED to the added DR Sents get over Destroyers is not even a comparison.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
So what I would say is:
Sentinels really are dead...
If you are a GWF your only real hope in being effective means rolling Destroyer. While this may be viable in Zone PVP. I have yet to test in Domination.
So basically they broke the Sentinel Path and its entirely useless from a practical standpoint for how the game actually gets played... but did achieve their goal to make the Destroyer path work correctly now... and in essence... instead of giving each a unique identity and role... acheived nothing but fixing one and breaking another.
Just as I suspected they'd REALLY end up doing the minute I heard it.
Yeah that's totally "fixed".
You'd swear the guys who do these kinds of things don't even play the game, they just throw darts a board somewhere and take wild guesses.
So basically they broke the Sentinel Path and its entirely useless from a practical standpoint for how the game actually gets played... but did achieve their goal to make the Destroyer path work correctly now... and in essence... instead of giving each a unique identity and role... acheived nothing but fixing one and breaking another.
Just as I suspected they'd REALLY end up doing the minute I heard it.
Yeah that's totally "fixed".
You'd swear the guys who do these kinds of things don't even play the game, they just throw darts a board somewhere and take wild guesses.
Yeah you really nailed it... Well I guess from one perspective IF the goal was:
Instagator path: worthless pile of dung.
Destroyer path: Decent damage dealer
Sentinel path: face tanks well but cant equip 2H GreatWeapons, just wet fun noodles - like the ones you play in a pool with.
Then ya I guess they "fixed" it....
The issue is that since Deep Gash and SOS were nerfed so hard, back "inline" with what they should be, it just made Sent/Insta that much more UN-viable.
What they need to do is compensate Sentinels in the area of more damage and provide more utility abilities for Instigators.
So again, what this could easily look like is:
INSTIGATOR:
Tier 1) SOTS - Fine, leave it at 5% that makes sense to me.
Tier 1) Fleet Footed - The 4e says this just gives pure Run Speed. So, Make this a pure run speed % Something like 5% or even 8%.
Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer.
Tier 3) Nimble Runner - Sprint and Charge grant 25% deflect chance (up from 10%) and you gain 10% more stamina recovery. This makes Sprint a viable defense now for Instigator.
Tier 4) Group Assault - ALL At Wills deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage AND no longer lose damage based on number of targets hit. - This would be a significant DPS boost for PVE!
Tier 4) Crippling Strike - Boost this to 80% and 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) - Instigators Vengeance - This should be: Increase damage by 5% upon RECEIVING damage, stacks 5 times (20% boost - to compete with a 40% Destroyer capstone). Lasts 6 seconds (is refreshed upon receiving damage).
DESTROYER:
Assuming the current LIVE build
SENTINEL:
Tier 2) Powerful Challenge (This was some of the issue why Sents were OP in PVP) - Grants 15% Critical Severity and critical strikes deal an additional 25% Threat to marked targets.
Tier 3) Grudge Style - ALL at wills have a increased 5% chance to crit and generate an additional 25% threat.
Tier 3) Intimidation - This is worthless because the two encounters are worthless... Beef up the encounters and this will work.
Daring Shout, This should replicate Enforced Threat - AOE damager
Come and Get it, This needs to be a quick animation with BIG "pull" effects as well as maybe a 1 second Daze at the end for CC AS WELL AS a damager. (Because of the nature of 3 encounters, nobody slots utility encounters)
Tier 4) Master at Arms - This should be a damage bonus (Sents NEED it) Increases damage by 2% for each stack of weapon master - still gives 5AC. (10% dmg boost + 2.5% DR)
Tier 4) Defiance - Your DAILY powers deal an additional 10% damage and 25% more threat AND your defense is increased by 25% for 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) Sent Aegis - Increased Defense by 20% AND all incoming healing by 30% (has other synergies).
Something along these lines would make the builds MORE like intended.
This gives Instagators some attractive abilities, Gives Sents a little more damage and alot of agro gain abilities!
Overall, I think these would bring the classes inline with what the ideal is...
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited May 2014
The main problem is everyone comparing the GWF dmg with the CW which is obviously unbalanced, in mod 2 we have (or had) two good dpsers CW and GWF, the gwf is being taken to a lower level in damage but still higher than every other class except the cw which will be also fixed, meaning that both will have still high dps but there will be not a huge difference in comparison to another class.
I.E: Right now, any dungeon, total dps:
GWF 20m, CW 19m, tr/hr 8m, GF 6m, DC 3m.
Now once the GWF and CW receive their respective fixes, reworks, w/e
GWF/CW 12m, tr/hr 10m, GF 8m, DC 5m.
Because the GWF and the CW won't have the huge dps as it is now in the live server, the other classes will be able to deal more damage (enemies will last longer because they receive less damage) a GWF or a CW won't kill a whole group of enemies by himself, the whole party will be required.
So every suggestion done in this thread is like: GWF dmg sucks now bla bla, we have to keep it close to the CW so buff this and that makes no sense because as soon as we realise that once both classes get their damage cut by almost half and we are still in the top, we won't even notice the nerf (which is actually a fix, we have to accept this).
...dungeons and foes were never really designed around players being able to deal as much damage as Wizards and GWFs deal on live currently. *Note* Wizard is also getting changes soon...
This supports what I just wrote.
I just hope that the devs could be able to bring the fixes for both CW and GWF together for the Mod3 and not just for the GWF, otherwise there would be a huge imbalance.
The issue is that since Deep Gash and SOS were nerfed so hard, back "inline" with what they should be, it just made Sent/Insta that much more UN-viable...
Instagator path: worthless pile of dung.
Destroyer path: Decent damage dealer
Sentinel path: face tanks well but cant equip 2H GreatWeapons, just wet fun noodles - like the ones you play in a pool with.
SO they basically hosed everything up even worse trying to "fix" it when they just should have left well enough alone in the first place instead of making the situation even worse than before... yeah that seems a common thread here...
I do wonder if these guys have any clue as to how their own game actually works on the ground floor. I bet they think this "change" is suddenly and mysteriously going to make GFs wanted in parties...
LOL! Talk about missing the point entirely... WHY in the hell would anyone invite want to GFs when theres NOTHING in the dungeons to tank... not even boss mobs, and ONLY mass mobs thrown at you repeatedly which is makes a GF completely useless because the class cannot hold agro in mass mob situations or do that job....
Its the wrong tool for the job and always has been.
Guess what the right tool for the job was... and still is likely to be... GWFs.
Great, you just shortened the handle of your screwdriver to make it harder for it to screw things in, but all you have in your dungeons are STILL just a bunch of screws... you're wrench STILL won't get used because there's no Fn nuts to ratchet in.
And guess what... when they figure this one out... and ACTUALLY get it right... they'll have just hosed everything else.... and it will STILL be causing them problems... because they just made this move which made the situation even worse. And they will be standing in shoes of their own making ONCE AGAIN.
gf vs cw/ Icewind aside, if all these boosts damage begin to take into account the critical - without any new surprise or reconsideration in buffs - the destroyer is in an interesting position.
greater damage than current - with the disadvantage of time - and without accumulating functions, either as defender or debuffer. in other words, any crying on the forums will be purposeless.
Comments
in any case, such a delay, after restoring the strike there is a short pause. do not know if connected to a certain amount of damage, whether it is casual, or just a random lag that eventually helps the gwf. but is the explanation I found.
ps:increase the quality of video.
Pls look at GWF sentinel tree before y say i am selfish . Agro and treath generation boost over agro and treath generation boost but i think mybe all of them bugged or idk but not working at all ,also i have gf and her threat is not working too .
Only viable option is now to outdps any one to keep agro this is not rigth.
problem is new power will buff up cws massivly and after huge dps nerf and lose of all utilly noone will want gwf in team any more cws used to be superior to dps and utily to gwf even before mod 3 but after it they will dominate by far
can u at least remove almost 100% up time from eye of the storm on spellstorm cw this is broken op and makes them broken op ty it they do few times better dps then mof
Have you played with Hunters?
They do much more aggro than cws...
GWfs just get another +3% dmg to passive and another stats to get power form.
Now its def, recovery, armor pen has 20-25% power...
Roar was just buffed preparing for the next module to make unstopable fest.
If you can't get enough dmg from it. Well maybe some testing needed!
damage of at aoe at wills should be improved by 200 and of sure strike by 350 at lest
but main reason for failure of gwf is 5 target caps on encounters and joke of damage and way to low ap gain on class as whole
Honestly what I would LOVE to see this daily become much stronger. If they upped the damage caps, AND increased duration - I think this could be a very attractive balance to the class IMO.
When I first saw this I thought it was amazing until I saw it was only 3 seconds long... Something LIKE this would make it a good daily for GWFs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t2XIhzPU-c&feature=youtu.be
If they made it so the damage per SINGLE target was say 75% of the damage of Indom STR then the damage on hitting TWO targets would be 50% more with ALL the hits.
I think this could then be a good filler inbetween encounters - but thats one thing to consider. Some Dailies like Slam dont require much "down time" from at will or encounters, so the damage MUST take into account the LOSS of damage IF able to use at wills or encounters.
Another thing I would love to see changed as well is Avalanche of Steel.
- This daily I should be able to press the daily again and control WHEN I come clamming down. I can either make this a quick daily or a LONG daily depending on the situation. Sometimes I use this as an "escape" from damage for a few seconds, sometimes I wish it were much much faster since it gives alot of time for classes to escape out of it....
THis entirely! One IDea is something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2LAejm4_4c&feature=youtu.be
Reduce the speed of each hit by 60%, and double the damage of each hit or MORE! Right now my tool tip damage says "565-678" on Sure Strike.
My GF Crushing Surge says "1279-1522" how is it a BIG 2h weapon deals 1/3rd the damage?
My TR says "1177-1418" HECK CLOUD OF STEEL says "549-661"
So your telling me, a 2h Sword in your face attack deals about the same damage as a small dagger thrown from a distance?!?! ?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
I get Sure Strike has a fast attack - so slow it down ALOT but beef up the damage ALOT! (Sure stats affect the above, but THAT MUCH?!) Its ridiculous.
If you SLOW down Sure Strike by even 50%, But give it like 3-4x the damage! This at will should say something around, "1600-1900" More than the GF at will thats forsure...
I mean Look at what happens when I take off weapons:
Sure Stike: 53-53
Crushing Surge: 169-169
Duelist Flurry: 86-86
Cloud of Steel:40-40
Tell me whats wrong with this picture.......
Sure Strike should be on par with Crushing Surge or ATLEAST Cleave which is 127-127...
Again I realize stats come into play here... But that is rather silly its that big a difference.
I actually am starting to wonder if ALL at will damage was boosted on GWFs if this would fix a major part of their issue in both PVP and PVE.
I mean Heck Wicked Strike is 52-52 with no weapon for heavens sake! Its speed is VERY slow AND damage is reduced based on targets hit...
Just TEsted a FULL charged Reaping Strike on IWD mobs and its doing about the same as my Sure Strike damage, but it takes a few seconds to charge up - How does that help in aoe fights? I can spam Sure Strike and get 4 hits in 2 seconds or charge for 2 seconds and hit 4-5 mobs for about the same damage?! If I have an AOE at will It should be a clear advantage to use that in AOE fights over my single target - not to mention the final hit can hit multiple?
It makes no sense.
NOW is the time to fix these things if your looking at them Crush!
Why Thor the migthy warrior with Mjolnir The best weapon ever crafted by Dwarfs hit like workhammer?
By the sons of Asgard what a hell is wrong with us what have we done wrong father why you doom us?
You say we must go in the front line to kill monster with single blow and protect the weak from certain death .
Have we done somthing wrong?
i wouldnt even play GWF if at will was thaaat slow i do rather keep the dmg at current atk speed instead.
GCrush keeps repeating that DG was too high, but hey that's what all the community said from the beginning, and after all who are the guys who implemented the DG boost in mod2?
GWF needs direct damage, base damage, something in line with what a Melee DPS class should be. Not yet another indirect addition with a not-DnD, counter-intuitive, situational building of stacks, a system that looks good only on paper.
Its just an idea to get across a concept. Just asking for flat buffs across the board rarely bodes well.
I think of it like this...
The lighter the weapon the faster you should be able to swing it and the less damage PER swing it should deal correct? I mean being "realistic" is the argument why GWF AOE at wills have diminished damage for additional targets hit...
So it SHOULD be TR - fast hitting smaller daggers. (I wont get into how they have 2 here) - again just a concept
GF - one hand sword, not AS high top end, slower than TR but higher at will dmg.
GWF - 2h GREATWEAPON - Hits like a truck, much slower than both the above.
I would SUGGEST, GWF attack speed can mirror that of a GF (another fighter) which each at will is THREE successive attacks, but slightly slower.
Currently the GWF at will attacks LIKE a "dagger" its fast and hits like a wet noodle. I would DEFINITELY be more interested in a slower attacks that hits like a truck.
Reaping Strike should hit LIKE "aimed shot" for hunters, I mean they are similar....
Sure Strike should be slowed down - maybe 40% is too much, maybe just slow it down 25% but its hard to ask for a "realistic" effect in making it hot for like 1500+ AND having it really fast and 4 hits.... Thats just flat OP.
Making it half the speed, but hits 3x as hard - now thats more realistic AND a DPS boost, however you also lose mobility so its a tradeoff.
1 - see all these stacks + bf start working properly with the critical ... and I hope this "bug" is also not fixed in some class win another super buff.
2 - the end of secret nerfs, as canceling the sure strike this mysterious unstoppable that seems down fast in combat.
established a point where things are what they should be and not what it seems, will be possible to give a legitimate feedback, including the losses or disadvantages are some compensation.
which is irreducible is that no melee class is adapted to the new content, which is a paradox given the thousands of complaints about the designe of the dungeons which disadvantage a certain papers like a defender.
Yeap, let's turn GWF into non-damaging defenseless punching dummy once again. They already did first part of it.
Sorry but Sentinel is complete trash now, nobody will run it because they cant deal any damage or kill anyone.
minus tr/hr/gf and dc
In Open World Icewind Dale PvP? My testing is showing them to still be competitive, IMO.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a PvP Expert. I'm just a guy who has played a lot of GWF in PvE/PvP on live and Test Shard, that's all.
I guess it depends on what you mean by competitive....
For Hotenow/Rivenscare the only reason they were OP on LIVE (and still behind a well played HR/TR) is because they could face tank alot of damage and dish out alot of damage.
Deep Gash nerf and SOS nerf essentially cut Sents damage on average around 35%+. So now Sentinels are just facetanks who cant do anything. Sure they can TRY and contest however now that they cant 1v1 down a HR/TR/DC/GF - its pretty easy to stalemate them - considering there are alot of TR/HRs Sents basically just lost their value added as a backcapper.
In Zone PVP: Again sure they can facetank, however their damage (again) is so pitiful they wont really be able to do alot. In fact the only saving grace right now for Sents is the Blacksmith companion because his damage reflection is so high, a Sent can pray that they just outlive their opponent enough to have blacksmith reflect enough damage back for a competitive match.
I took my Sent GWF who ROCKS atm on live and tested him in zone pvp against an HR. I couldnt even out DPS his self healing from the 4/4 set. I played him match after after - absolutely pathetic.
I swapped over to Destroyer and it was night and day difference. I lost a little tankiness, but my damage output was (seemed to me) double. The HR was like "wtf did you do" because it actually was a competitive fight.
So what I would say is:
Sentinels really are dead...
If you are a GWF your only real hope in being effective means rolling Destroyer. While this may be viable in Zone PVP. I have yet to test in Domination.
Considering the OPness of HRs and TRs at this point, I dont see what a Dest GWF could bring to the table in a highly competitive matchup that would really help the game. Maybe they will pick up the "roam DPS" roll since hey are somewhat hard to CC, and now their damage is higher? I dont know....
Thats just my experience playing GWF both on LIVE and on PTR....
that will be 15% dodge and 10% dmg reduction... that is not rly a little
well you can still get the 5% deflect if you want (I didnt) and the other feat is only 10% max stacks. your also forgetting the 5AC which is 2.5% DR.
So 15% deflect and more like 12.5% DR.... BUt in the grand scheme of things, it matters much less than you think. With unstoppable putting you well over the top of Dim Returns as a Sent, Now im fairly close to the cap as a Destroyer.
Factor in tenacity ontop of that though and the difference isnt much THAT much.
Plus the fact that roar and takedown have less CD, means you prone more often means you take damage less often. Ontop of that Roar gives determination which allows you to pop unstoppable more often so....
If we played a game of "sit still and face tank" you would notice a big difference. But if you played a game of 1v1 - the Destroyer will win hands down because the damage output he gets over Sents COMPARED to the added DR Sents get over Destroyers is not even a comparison.
So basically they broke the Sentinel Path and its entirely useless from a practical standpoint for how the game actually gets played... but did achieve their goal to make the Destroyer path work correctly now... and in essence... instead of giving each a unique identity and role... acheived nothing but fixing one and breaking another.
Just as I suspected they'd REALLY end up doing the minute I heard it.
Yeah that's totally "fixed".
You'd swear the guys who do these kinds of things don't even play the game, they just throw darts a board somewhere and take wild guesses.
Yeah you really nailed it... Well I guess from one perspective IF the goal was:
Instagator path: worthless pile of dung.
Destroyer path: Decent damage dealer
Sentinel path: face tanks well but cant equip 2H GreatWeapons, just wet fun noodles - like the ones you play in a pool with.
Then ya I guess they "fixed" it....
The issue is that since Deep Gash and SOS were nerfed so hard, back "inline" with what they should be, it just made Sent/Insta that much more UN-viable.
What they need to do is compensate Sentinels in the area of more damage and provide more utility abilities for Instigators.
So again, what this could easily look like is:
INSTIGATOR:
Tier 1) SOTS - Fine, leave it at 5% that makes sense to me.
Tier 1) Fleet Footed - The 4e says this just gives pure Run Speed. So, Make this a pure run speed % Something like 5% or even 8%.
Tier 3) Allied Opportunity SHOULD be - Mighty Leap and Not So Fast deal 50% more damage. Mighty Leap now PRONES targets hit with the AOE. Not so Fast slows targets by 30% and lasts .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2s longer.
Tier 3) Nimble Runner - Sprint and Charge grant 25% deflect chance (up from 10%) and you gain 10% more stamina recovery. This makes Sprint a viable defense now for Instigator.
Tier 4) Group Assault - ALL At Wills deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage AND no longer lose damage based on number of targets hit. - This would be a significant DPS boost for PVE!
Tier 4) Crippling Strike - Boost this to 80% and 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) - Instigators Vengeance - This should be: Increase damage by 5% upon RECEIVING damage, stacks 5 times (20% boost - to compete with a 40% Destroyer capstone). Lasts 6 seconds (is refreshed upon receiving damage).
DESTROYER:
Assuming the current LIVE build
SENTINEL:
Tier 2) Powerful Challenge (This was some of the issue why Sents were OP in PVP) - Grants 15% Critical Severity and critical strikes deal an additional 25% Threat to marked targets.
Tier 3) Grudge Style - ALL at wills have a increased 5% chance to crit and generate an additional 25% threat.
Tier 3) Intimidation - This is worthless because the two encounters are worthless... Beef up the encounters and this will work.
Daring Shout, This should replicate Enforced Threat - AOE damager
Come and Get it, This needs to be a quick animation with BIG "pull" effects as well as maybe a 1 second Daze at the end for CC AS WELL AS a damager. (Because of the nature of 3 encounters, nobody slots utility encounters)
Tier 4) Master at Arms - This should be a damage bonus (Sents NEED it) Increases damage by 2% for each stack of weapon master - still gives 5AC. (10% dmg boost + 2.5% DR)
Tier 4) Defiance - Your DAILY powers deal an additional 10% damage and 25% more threat AND your defense is increased by 25% for 6 seconds.
Tier 5 (CAPSTONE) Sent Aegis - Increased Defense by 20% AND all incoming healing by 30% (has other synergies).
Something along these lines would make the builds MORE like intended.
This gives Instagators some attractive abilities, Gives Sents a little more damage and alot of agro gain abilities!
Overall, I think these would bring the classes inline with what the ideal is...
I.E: Right now, any dungeon, total dps:
GWF 20m, CW 19m, tr/hr 8m, GF 6m, DC 3m.
Now once the GWF and CW receive their respective fixes, reworks, w/e
GWF/CW 12m, tr/hr 10m, GF 8m, DC 5m.
Because the GWF and the CW won't have the huge dps as it is now in the live server, the other classes will be able to deal more damage (enemies will last longer because they receive less damage) a GWF or a CW won't kill a whole group of enemies by himself, the whole party will be required.
So every suggestion done in this thread is like: GWF dmg sucks now bla bla, we have to keep it close to the CW so buff this and that makes no sense because as soon as we realise that once both classes get their damage cut by almost half and we are still in the top, we won't even notice the nerf (which is actually a fix, we have to accept this).
This supports what I just wrote.
I just hope that the devs could be able to bring the fixes for both CW and GWF together for the Mod3 and not just for the GWF, otherwise there would be a huge imbalance.
SO they basically hosed everything up even worse trying to "fix" it when they just should have left well enough alone in the first place instead of making the situation even worse than before... yeah that seems a common thread here...
I do wonder if these guys have any clue as to how their own game actually works on the ground floor. I bet they think this "change" is suddenly and mysteriously going to make GFs wanted in parties...
LOL! Talk about missing the point entirely... WHY in the hell would anyone invite want to GFs when theres NOTHING in the dungeons to tank... not even boss mobs, and ONLY mass mobs thrown at you repeatedly which is makes a GF completely useless because the class cannot hold agro in mass mob situations or do that job....
Its the wrong tool for the job and always has been.
Guess what the right tool for the job was... and still is likely to be... GWFs.
Great, you just shortened the handle of your screwdriver to make it harder for it to screw things in, but all you have in your dungeons are STILL just a bunch of screws... you're wrench STILL won't get used because there's no Fn nuts to ratchet in.
And guess what... when they figure this one out... and ACTUALLY get it right... they'll have just hosed everything else.... and it will STILL be causing them problems... because they just made this move which made the situation even worse. And they will be standing in shoes of their own making ONCE AGAIN.
Wow... just wow...
greater damage than current - with the disadvantage of time - and without accumulating functions, either as defender or debuffer. in other words, any crying on the forums will be purposeless.
this is a little dream.