And besides, the PVPers who like PVP here enjoy it BECAUSE it is unbalanced. They play the classes/builds (perma-TRs, sent IV GWFs) that are very lopsided in their favor and just stomp everyone and derive joy from it. Who doesn't like to enjoy an inherent advantage over everyone else? Pretty sure Cryptic realizes this.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
And besides, the PVPers who like PVP here enjoy it BECAUSE it is unbalanced. They play the classes/builds (perma-TRs, sent IV GWFs) that are very lopsided in their favor and just stomp everyone and derive joy from it. Who doesn't like to enjoy an inherent advantage over everyone else? Pretty sure Cryptic realizes this.
If you actually paid attention to the PvP players, a great many of them are concerned with balance. There are extremely vocal, contributing members of this community who main CWs and DCs, who want to PvP, and want to be challenged without feeling useless.
Your personal biases are showing pretty hard.
I'm not going to make any assumptions about the module until I can try it on preview (hoping they will actually get it out this week), and in my opinion, it's high time the PvPers got some attention, as the prior two modules offered them nothing but boons and artifacts they primarily had to grind PvE to earn.
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2014
Being forced to do PvP for 4 days because I really wanted that Raven Skull artifact is probably my single most annoying experience in Neverwinter. I really, really hope that I will not be forced into any PvP content with module 3.
The way this was handled in Gauntlgrym was fine with me - sure, there is PvP, but you don't have to participate unless you want to. That's a win-win for me.
And besides, the PVPers who like PVP here enjoy it BECAUSE it is unbalanced. They play the classes/builds (perma-TRs, sent IV GWFs) that are very lopsided in their favor and just stomp everyone and derive joy from it. Who doesn't like to enjoy an inherent advantage over everyone else? Pretty sure Cryptic realizes this.
If you look at GWF in the past before iron vanguard, GWFs could hardly kill anyone. They could tank decently, but that was pretty much it. Once you got into higher tier PvP especially, GWF wasn't good for anything other than running to a base and not dying as fast as everyone else, but they weren't very desirable. Artifacts, soul forge, and iron vanguard are what made it possible for GWF to still tank while gaining too much damage output, but the recent changes were to help balance this effect out because they realized it was too much. GWF gained potential when they needed it as a result of balancing by adding the new path and lost potential when it was too strong as a result of the recent balance. The balance wasn't solely based around just nerfing GWF, but had it in mind as a base to look at managing in addition to brining up the other non-tank builds on par with tank ones. Back before GWF got iron vanguard, GF would be considered better than GWF if you wanted to tank and actually kill. Back when things were getting started before ice knife got nerfed, CW was extremely powerful and had high potential. Also in the early beginning DC took a nerf because they were too strong.
The power shifts as the game works towards becoming balanced. Most people that are highly involved in PvP here don't completely scrap their old character for the new "best" class during the current phase. All classes have had their highs and lows with some were more than others, but ultimately that will continue to happen until the classes do become balanced and there isn't a point in making a new "most powerful" character because another class got buffed or nerfed. Not nearly everyone in PvP is a perma or a sent GWF. Not to mention even though they are probably more popular, there are not a significantly larger amount of "top tier" players of these builds compared to the other classes. Ultimately you adapt to the changes and your class is going to get the attention it deserves in time. Each class will have highs and lows, but eventually it will get balanced. Things have been and will continue to get more balanced in the future.
You sure cryptic is intentionally allowing these overpowered builds?:
And again, GWF was not like this before iron vanguard. It was underpowered compared to the other classes before that update (in advanced PvP). They are and will keep making adjustments that will bring things closer to balanced in the future.
You could say neverwinter is PvE based but there is also a very large PvP community. You could also say if they aren't continuing to update PvE you will leave. Personally, I only play the game for PvP. If they weren't going to be interested in updating PvP, I would leave (and did for a period until the most recent updates got rolling and new ones announced). Look at all the PvE content that was added compared to PvP over the course of the game since its release. Do you not think its fair that some attention be given to PvP after all the PvE focus? This module isn't even entirely PvP they have said.
this sir is flat out wrong and and self patting!
i have spent i the last 3 weeks alone $85 in CASH, and would continue IF it is a pve! easier? not really, you get your gear just by grinding matches, we GRIND sometimes NEVER to get the gear we are after because the way RANDOM works!
lots of pvp? not really, what we got was GATED dailies, and 2 weeklies that are done in maybe 1 hour a day!
Another thing is that many of the PvP players are the ones spending the most money on this game. In PvE you aren't going to need max artifacts, full rank 9-10s, perfect weapon/armor enchants, where in PvP it makes a much more significant difference when you have these. A lot of PvP players are willing to pay for these kinds of things if it means significantly less time spent grinding away at PvE. Also, people who play the game for PvE are likely to end up more wealthy than those who PvP just based on the reward system between the two in this game and the fact that PvE players generally don't mind grinding as much. This means PvE players will have less need to spend money to get things they want and be more willing to grind for it rather than pay.
That earlier statement is not meant as an absolute for everyone, but in general. I know multiple people who have admittedly spent hundreds of dollars just getting geared up for PvP. It seems like everyone I talk to who is serious about PvP has done the same to a large, but lesser extent. I personally have not spent this kind of significant amount on it, so I cannot agree that it is "self patting".
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And besides, the PVPers who like PVP here enjoy it BECAUSE it is unbalanced. They play the classes/builds (perma-TRs, sent IV GWFs) that are very lopsided in their favor and just stomp everyone and derive joy from it. Who doesn't like to enjoy an inherent advantage over everyone else? Pretty sure Cryptic realizes this.
I play a CW even against my best interests and PvP with it maybe a 1-2 hours/day at least. Most people I play with don't enjoy stomping anything or anyone, although sometimes after 1 hour premade match it's OK to get a pugstomp so you can AFK a bit in it.
As for advantages, my char doesn't truly have an advantage only against PvErs, less experienced/geared PvPers or DCs. Great GFs, HRs, TRs and GWFs kill me I'd say quite easily. It's only natural for anybody to want to improve their char to its best, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.
By far the most enjoyable stuff remains the balanced PvP matches that last a while and you fight to find solutions for a win... not pugstomps.
I have to say I'm curiuos why would anyone play NW ony for the PVP, considering the pvp we have in here is pretty small, just 2 maps, same game mode, a few dailies and recently ELO system, but no more game modes, no ranked matches, no arenas, no persistent pvp groups, etc...
I would think that if someone enjoys PVP only they would choose a game where there is a much more in depth PVP system.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I have to say I'm curiuos why would anyone play NW ony for the PVP, considering the pvp we have in here is pretty small, just 2 maps, same game mode, a few dailies and recently ELO system, but no more game modes, no ranked matches, no arenas, no persistent pvp groups, etc...
I would think that if someone enjoys PVP only they would choose a game where there is a much more in depth PVP system.
Neverwinter's combat system itself is really nifty, which makes it fun to use in PvP even without a ton of those other features.
Nobody is forcing you to PvP. If you don't want to, then don't. If you do, then do. If you want PvP-acquired items, then you have to PvP. Otherwise, don't PvP. Some of us like to PvP and don't want to spend all day in PvE because it's boring when you've run the same content over and over.
heres the thing, balances patches for ANY game almost always revolve around PVP, therefore effecting PVE!
PVP should have been a seperate game period!
why are you getting seperate gear, not available to pve? UNLESS WE PVP!
pvp was slapped on, it does not belong, and allowing it to effect pve in any way is wrong, and unfair. already. hell why is it in the rotation? ohh ya, and how about dailies from neverember?
neverwinter, D&D, RPG's, PNP, even mmo's, where NEVER about PVP, they have always been co-op. yet, here PWE like every other develpoer; has forced it into the game. now they are TAKING recources from PVE, to develope content for PVP. when there is in no way enough content in pve. if it is gonna be PVP, then hire a team and go make pvp a seperate game, do not use resources that should be developing more content.
the only game i have seen do things right with regards to PVP versus pve, was guild wars, at least there, it was seperate, neither ever had to deal with the the othere, and at least balance patches did not effect eachother they where seperate!
ya, actually there is a lot of hate towards pvp. i like MANY others, have seen pvp, in everyother game ruin pve. from balances, resources spent, and general attidude, and the ******* greifers that think its funny to instagib pve who are generally undergeared!
pvp always gets better equiptment, better stats than "comparable" pve.
hell name one game that pvp and pve co-existed, it cannot happen unless you sperate them and treat them as seperate games.
tired every game thats supposed to be PVE gets ruined because pvp, in one way or another.
pvp takes development resources from pve
pvp balance always screws over pve
"special gear" is always better than equivelant pve gear
pvp crowd=elitism
pve crowd=casual
its a pve game, thats what it was always designed to be, if they wanted pvp, they should have made a pvp. do not force the 2 together, it will ruin the game, always has, always will.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
as an avid gamer. i have been playing MMo for a very long time. PVP will always be an important part of any game(competition = success) to any game developer.
why are you even willing to grind those daillies or gears if your just going to run a stagnant dungeon over and over again. playing against AI is really boring.
you can only stomach too much PVE and asked yourself that is it really worth your time? (PVP makes this game dynamic and enjoyable). i also think that's one of the reason why MOBA games are so popular right now.
all in all the impression i'm getting in this thread is, most are afraid of this change because they are comfortable were they are in right now
well, we all have different taste, different preferences. your opinon, only.
if i prefer to grind, and prefer to run dungeons, THAT is my concern.
if you wanted PVP why are you here in a pve game? if you wanted a game that uses resources for PVP, go play a moba.
well, we all have different taste, different preferences. your opinon, only.
if i prefer to grind, and prefer to run dungeons, THAT is my concern.
if you wanted PVP why are you here in a pve game? if you wanted a game that uses resources for PVP, go play a moba.
Not only their opinion. I and many others also share the same opinion. Let's keep posts focussed on the main topic rather than on personal disputes.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
well, we all have different taste, different preferences. your opinon, only.
if i prefer to grind, and prefer to run dungeons, THAT is my concern.
if you wanted PVP why are you here in a pve game? if you wanted a game that uses resources for PVP, go play a moba.
you sir have too much hate, i didn't even directed the answer to you. like what you said, it was my opinion.
Going back to the topic:
PVE and PVP can work together in any game, but the problem with the community here is that, you can't please everybody (like who is above me).
Change will always be constant either you embrace it or get left behind is up to you.
why do you suppose there is hatred?
think long and hard. it is the same in every game, pvp and pve have 2 differnet motivations, 2 different goals, 2 different playing styles and needs.
but the root of the problem is, resources taken away from pve to develop pvp. pve content generation slows considerably to develop pvp.continual balance changes always effect pve, yet, pve does not effect pvp.
you see when the pvp crowd starts crying for balance, those balances effect our world, and our builds, and our way of playing. happens in every game. but heck all the crying for balance is not selfish or anything is it.
pve and pvp do not mix, they are 2 different games and should be treated as such!
if you wanted pvp why come to a supposedly pve game and cry for more pvp? you see neverwinter was pve centric, it was devoloped for co-op pve.
pvp was slapped on to appease pvpers. yet those pvpers, crying for more, crying for balance.
so what happens? development resources are taken from pve to develop more pvp, resources are then added for balancing.
this hurts the development of more pve content, it slows up the releases/ modules/ patches for pve.
so in essence it is turning a PVE game into a PVP focused game!!!!!
i and many, many, many others came to neverwinter for the lore, for the PVE, to be able to play in the forgotten realms.
so ya, tired of the effects pvp has on pve, simple as that.
and really, it is time pve players stand up a voice loud and strong, send a message to develpers. pvp and pve do not belong together, to many differences in the player base, in the goals, and motivations.
When you express your opinion about PVP, you present it as if you are stating facts and that everyone agrees with it and there is no alternate.
When others express their opinion, you attack them for what you claim is "only their opinion."
Also, Lineage 2 is a game I played for a long time that I feel did PVP/PVE very well...so there has now been one game named.
THat being said...balancing PVP without separation hurts PVE, pretty sure noone is arguing this. All these "pvp cryers" are almost always PVE players, so that balance that messes up PVE enjoyment generally stems from PVE players who are not prepared for PVP, yet expect to win.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
I like PVE more than PVP but people complaining on the company using resources in PVP stuff instead of PVE, I can't agree with them.
More importantly than DnD not having PVP, is that this is an MMO, an MMO with DnD elements. So of course it's gonna have PVP, if you want to play true DnD with no PVP then go back to play the real one, not an MMO.
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arontimesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
And even in PnP D&D, there is a small but significant PvP community. Some campaigns, known as arena campaigns, are focused entirely on PvP with little or no roleplaying. These are primarily played by CharOp afficionados to test builds and to see which is broken and which is not. One of the longer-running arena type PnP games was the Test of Spite, which was played in the Giant in the Playground play-by-post forums, and it led to the discovery of many broken builds and subsequently the creation of more balanced homebrew fixes for such content.
zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
I understand the frustration but let me bring up a point as well.
In my humble opinion the root of all people in this world "loves competition" even in the real world, we want ourselves to be the best which reflect in the gaming genre (that's why from the Attari games of PVE it evolves down to MOBA or FPS today). that's why we grind those dailies to perform better .
The developers are trying to balance the community by appeasing the PVE centric people and PVP population by bringing 2 content into 1 module. (beside nobody mentioned from the PWE or cryptic itself that this is a PVE game only).
and i'm not a PVP person. i enjoy both content and don't really care what happens to each other as long as i enjoy the game. if statistic is given. i'm pretty sure majority of the person who spends thousands and thousands of dollars are those in the PVP populations. (which we all know where to money comes from) a PVE player can just grind anything and still be the best without spending anything. (which do you think will cryptic will prioritize first?)
I think it that was the case NW would be a mostly PVP centered game, and so far it clearly isnt, so there has to be more factors into the equation, it's either PVE players spend as much as PVPers (as a whole, not each one indivisually) Or the company has more priorities than just what makes the most money.
Arguing about whether PVE or PVP players spend more money on the game is pointless. No one besides Cryptic knows how much money is spent by whom. One could say that obviously PVE players spend more because why else would the devs keep creating more companions? Ultimately all of this is just question begging.
I'm PVE only in this game - but I'm happy for the PVPers who will finally get more content. It would be nice if there were more separation between the game modes (TRs need buffs in PVE without affecting PVP for instance) since that's the only valid reason for friction between the two camps.
I also wish people would retire the rather loaded assertion that PVP (or anything) is Endgame. Endgame is what you do at max level, hopefully it's something that you enjoy. Leave it at that and don't try to claim that your preferred style of play is the only valid one.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
the point is stil a matter of the effects it has on pve.
i am not saying pvp is bad, i am not saying pvp is unwanted or even a fun change of pace.
i am saying pvp always effects pve. resources, balances, and content generation. and that is what we are seeing. we just had a big pvp balance sweep, guess what, bugs in dungeons didnt get fixed either. we just had the balance changes for pvp, and some pve builds and became uneffective.
they are 2 sperate games, pve, and pvp. they produce 2 seperate game experiences. they have different goals, different motivations and different play styles and needs.
if your gonna thow them together and make mashed potatoes, it does NOT work. if your gonna have them both and try to force them together, hire a dedicated team, do not take resources (personel) away from pve just to apease pvpers.
and the "pvp pays the money" i disagree, and there is absolutly no evidence to it. pve crowd i imagine spends just as much, if not more for games, be it for monthly subs, cosmetics, banks slots, name changes, more conntent unlocks. pvp generates money from and for pvp to get uber geared, without having to work towards it. mmo's in general; i truelly beleive generate the majority cash flow. pvp adds to it, but the majority is from pvers, thats why item shops have way more content in things like bank slots, cosmetics, dyes, different mounts.
Arguing about whether PVE or PVP players spend more money on the game is pointless. No one besides Cryptic knows how much money is spent by whom. One could say that obviously PVE players spend more because why else would the devs keep creating more companions? Ultimately all of this is just question begging.
I'm PVE only in this game - but I'm happy for the PVPers who will finally get more content. It would be nice if there were more separation between the game modes (TRs need buffs in PVE without affecting PVP for instance) since that's the only valid reason for friction between the two camps.
I also wish people would retire the rather loaded assertion that PVP (or anything) is Endgame. Endgame is what you do at max level, hopefully it's something that you enjoy. Leave it at that and don't try to claim that your preferred style of play is the only valid one.
DN or Dragonest i believe seperate the PVE and PVP (a PVE of the same encounter has a totally different effect,damage in the PVP enviroment) which i believe made it successfull.
and you are correct, i would prefer if they seperate both mode together as to not effect the other, but without seeing this change in the preview server, all this unwanted discussion and argument are just invalid without seeing it before hand.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
From what I understand, there will be PvP and PvE dailies that grant Black Ice. To get the maximum amount of Black Ice per day, then you have to PvP and PvE, but there is nothing stopping someone from doing just PvP or PvE to get it. Of course, this is not on the test server yet so this is pure speculation on my part.
the silence from the cryptic concerning this is not a smart move specualtion will grow until they explain there sudden push for more pvp. if they are gonna concern themselves with pvp so much, tell us so we know the dirrection they plan on taking nevewinter. but for now, all they have talked about recently is, the pvp portions of the upcoming module, and before that all the talk about the big PVP patch.
yes at this is all specualtion, and if we are not voicing our concerns and worries then forced pvp is just around the corner.
the way i am interpting crytpics actions, and the things they have said and are doing, pvp seams to be the game they want to change to.
pvp domnion
pvp gg
open instanced pvp, in same area as PVE.
sorry, this just feels like its moving towards pvp and away from pve.
if you go back and read the announcement for the upcoming module, they sure got excited about "factions", open world PVP, fighting over black ice. though they did said some pve, it sure sounds like alot more went into there proudly announced PVP portions. through there own words, the way it has been laid out so far, it sounds HEAVY pvp content with some pve token.
also sounds like "here have some more dailies" you can grind one shard of black ice a day, or you can play pvp and steal it, as much as you want.
so yes, dailies do not equate to content. exspecially if pvp is generating faster reward.
Comments
If you actually paid attention to the PvP players, a great many of them are concerned with balance. There are extremely vocal, contributing members of this community who main CWs and DCs, who want to PvP, and want to be challenged without feeling useless.
Your personal biases are showing pretty hard.
I'm not going to make any assumptions about the module until I can try it on preview (hoping they will actually get it out this week), and in my opinion, it's high time the PvPers got some attention, as the prior two modules offered them nothing but boons and artifacts they primarily had to grind PvE to earn.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The way this was handled in Gauntlgrym was fine with me - sure, there is PvP, but you don't have to participate unless you want to. That's a win-win for me.
If you look at GWF in the past before iron vanguard, GWFs could hardly kill anyone. They could tank decently, but that was pretty much it. Once you got into higher tier PvP especially, GWF wasn't good for anything other than running to a base and not dying as fast as everyone else, but they weren't very desirable. Artifacts, soul forge, and iron vanguard are what made it possible for GWF to still tank while gaining too much damage output, but the recent changes were to help balance this effect out because they realized it was too much. GWF gained potential when they needed it as a result of balancing by adding the new path and lost potential when it was too strong as a result of the recent balance. The balance wasn't solely based around just nerfing GWF, but had it in mind as a base to look at managing in addition to brining up the other non-tank builds on par with tank ones. Back before GWF got iron vanguard, GF would be considered better than GWF if you wanted to tank and actually kill. Back when things were getting started before ice knife got nerfed, CW was extremely powerful and had high potential. Also in the early beginning DC took a nerf because they were too strong.
The power shifts as the game works towards becoming balanced. Most people that are highly involved in PvP here don't completely scrap their old character for the new "best" class during the current phase. All classes have had their highs and lows with some were more than others, but ultimately that will continue to happen until the classes do become balanced and there isn't a point in making a new "most powerful" character because another class got buffed or nerfed. Not nearly everyone in PvP is a perma or a sent GWF. Not to mention even though they are probably more popular, there are not a significantly larger amount of "top tier" players of these builds compared to the other classes. Ultimately you adapt to the changes and your class is going to get the attention it deserves in time. Each class will have highs and lows, but eventually it will get balanced. Things have been and will continue to get more balanced in the future.
You sure cryptic is intentionally allowing these overpowered builds?:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?622121-Potential-Stealth-Mechanic-Changes/page2
And again, GWF was not like this before iron vanguard. It was underpowered compared to the other classes before that update (in advanced PvP). They are and will keep making adjustments that will bring things closer to balanced in the future.
this sir is flat out wrong and and self patting!
i have spent i the last 3 weeks alone $85 in CASH, and would continue IF it is a pve! easier? not really, you get your gear just by grinding matches, we GRIND sometimes NEVER to get the gear we are after because the way RANDOM works!
lots of pvp? not really, what we got was GATED dailies, and 2 weeklies that are done in maybe 1 hour a day!
Another thing is that many of the PvP players are the ones spending the most money on this game. In PvE you aren't going to need max artifacts, full rank 9-10s, perfect weapon/armor enchants, where in PvP it makes a much more significant difference when you have these. A lot of PvP players are willing to pay for these kinds of things if it means significantly less time spent grinding away at PvE. Also, people who play the game for PvE are likely to end up more wealthy than those who PvP just based on the reward system between the two in this game and the fact that PvE players generally don't mind grinding as much. This means PvE players will have less need to spend money to get things they want and be more willing to grind for it rather than pay.
I play a CW even against my best interests and PvP with it maybe a 1-2 hours/day at least. Most people I play with don't enjoy stomping anything or anyone, although sometimes after 1 hour premade match it's OK to get a pugstomp so you can AFK a bit in it.
As for advantages, my char doesn't truly have an advantage only against PvErs, less experienced/geared PvPers or DCs. Great GFs, HRs, TRs and GWFs kill me I'd say quite easily. It's only natural for anybody to want to improve their char to its best, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.
By far the most enjoyable stuff remains the balanced PvP matches that last a while and you fight to find solutions for a win... not pugstomps.
I would think that if someone enjoys PVP only they would choose a game where there is a much more in depth PVP system.
Neverwinter's combat system itself is really nifty, which makes it fun to use in PvP even without a ton of those other features.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Simple as that...
PVP should have been a seperate game period!
why are you getting seperate gear, not available to pve? UNLESS WE PVP!
pvp was slapped on, it does not belong, and allowing it to effect pve in any way is wrong, and unfair. already. hell why is it in the rotation? ohh ya, and how about dailies from neverember?
neverwinter, D&D, RPG's, PNP, even mmo's, where NEVER about PVP, they have always been co-op. yet, here PWE like every other develpoer; has forced it into the game. now they are TAKING recources from PVE, to develope content for PVP. when there is in no way enough content in pve. if it is gonna be PVP, then hire a team and go make pvp a seperate game, do not use resources that should be developing more content.
the only game i have seen do things right with regards to PVP versus pve, was guild wars, at least there, it was seperate, neither ever had to deal with the the othere, and at least balance patches did not effect eachother they where seperate!
- JailBreak (in development)
It's a shame that we can't yet generate power from irony alone.
pvp always gets better equiptment, better stats than "comparable" pve.
hell name one game that pvp and pve co-existed, it cannot happen unless you sperate them and treat them as seperate games.
tired every game thats supposed to be PVE gets ruined because pvp, in one way or another.
pvp takes development resources from pve
pvp balance always screws over pve
"special gear" is always better than equivelant pve gear
pvp crowd=elitism
pve crowd=casual
its a pve game, thats what it was always designed to be, if they wanted pvp, they should have made a pvp. do not force the 2 together, it will ruin the game, always has, always will.
why are you even willing to grind those daillies or gears if your just going to run a stagnant dungeon over and over again. playing against AI is really boring.
you can only stomach too much PVE and asked yourself that is it really worth your time? (PVP makes this game dynamic and enjoyable). i also think that's one of the reason why MOBA games are so popular right now.
all in all the impression i'm getting in this thread is, most are afraid of this change because they are comfortable were they are in right now
if i prefer to grind, and prefer to run dungeons, THAT is my concern.
if you wanted PVP why are you here in a pve game? if you wanted a game that uses resources for PVP, go play a moba.
Not only their opinion. I and many others also share the same opinion. Let's keep posts focussed on the main topic rather than on personal disputes.
you sir have too much hate, i didn't even directed the answer to you. like what you said, it was my opinion.
Going back to the topic:
PVE and PVP can work together in any game, but the problem with the community here is that, you can't please everybody (like who is above me).
Change will always be constant either you embrace it or get left behind is up to you.
think long and hard. it is the same in every game, pvp and pve have 2 differnet motivations, 2 different goals, 2 different playing styles and needs.
but the root of the problem is, resources taken away from pve to develop pvp. pve content generation slows considerably to develop pvp.continual balance changes always effect pve, yet, pve does not effect pvp.
you see when the pvp crowd starts crying for balance, those balances effect our world, and our builds, and our way of playing. happens in every game. but heck all the crying for balance is not selfish or anything is it.
pve and pvp do not mix, they are 2 different games and should be treated as such!
if you wanted pvp why come to a supposedly pve game and cry for more pvp? you see neverwinter was pve centric, it was devoloped for co-op pve.
pvp was slapped on to appease pvpers. yet those pvpers, crying for more, crying for balance.
so what happens? development resources are taken from pve to develop more pvp, resources are then added for balancing.
this hurts the development of more pve content, it slows up the releases/ modules/ patches for pve.
so in essence it is turning a PVE game into a PVP focused game!!!!!
i and many, many, many others came to neverwinter for the lore, for the PVE, to be able to play in the forgotten realms.
so ya, tired of the effects pvp has on pve, simple as that.
and really, it is time pve players stand up a voice loud and strong, send a message to develpers. pvp and pve do not belong together, to many differences in the player base, in the goals, and motivations.
When you express your opinion about PVP, you present it as if you are stating facts and that everyone agrees with it and there is no alternate.
When others express their opinion, you attack them for what you claim is "only their opinion."
Also, Lineage 2 is a game I played for a long time that I feel did PVP/PVE very well...so there has now been one game named.
THat being said...balancing PVP without separation hurts PVE, pretty sure noone is arguing this. All these "pvp cryers" are almost always PVE players, so that balance that messes up PVE enjoyment generally stems from PVE players who are not prepared for PVP, yet expect to win.
- JailBreak (in development)
More importantly than DnD not having PVP, is that this is an MMO, an MMO with DnD elements. So of course it's gonna have PVP, if you want to play true DnD with no PVP then go back to play the real one, not an MMO.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
In my humble opinion the root of all people in this world "loves competition" even in the real world, we want ourselves to be the best which reflect in the gaming genre (that's why from the Attari games of PVE it evolves down to MOBA or FPS today). that's why we grind those dailies to perform better .
The developers are trying to balance the community by appeasing the PVE centric people and PVP population by bringing 2 content into 1 module. (beside nobody mentioned from the PWE or cryptic itself that this is a PVE game only).
and i'm not a PVP person. i enjoy both content and don't really care what happens to each other as long as i enjoy the game. if statistic is given. i'm pretty sure majority of the person who spends thousands and thousands of dollars are those in the PVP populations. (which we all know where to money comes from) a PVE player can just grind anything and still be the best without spending anything. (which do you think will cryptic will prioritize first?)
Just my 2 cents
I'm PVE only in this game - but I'm happy for the PVPers who will finally get more content. It would be nice if there were more separation between the game modes (TRs need buffs in PVE without affecting PVP for instance) since that's the only valid reason for friction between the two camps.
I also wish people would retire the rather loaded assertion that PVP (or anything) is Endgame. Endgame is what you do at max level, hopefully it's something that you enjoy. Leave it at that and don't try to claim that your preferred style of play is the only valid one.
i am not saying pvp is bad, i am not saying pvp is unwanted or even a fun change of pace.
i am saying pvp always effects pve. resources, balances, and content generation. and that is what we are seeing. we just had a big pvp balance sweep, guess what, bugs in dungeons didnt get fixed either. we just had the balance changes for pvp, and some pve builds and became uneffective.
they are 2 sperate games, pve, and pvp. they produce 2 seperate game experiences. they have different goals, different motivations and different play styles and needs.
if your gonna thow them together and make mashed potatoes, it does NOT work. if your gonna have them both and try to force them together, hire a dedicated team, do not take resources (personel) away from pve just to apease pvpers.
and the "pvp pays the money" i disagree, and there is absolutly no evidence to it. pve crowd i imagine spends just as much, if not more for games, be it for monthly subs, cosmetics, banks slots, name changes, more conntent unlocks. pvp generates money from and for pvp to get uber geared, without having to work towards it. mmo's in general; i truelly beleive generate the majority cash flow. pvp adds to it, but the majority is from pvers, thats why item shops have way more content in things like bank slots, cosmetics, dyes, different mounts.
i have 2 pvp to get it?
DN or Dragonest i believe seperate the PVE and PVP (a PVE of the same encounter has a totally different effect,damage in the PVP enviroment) which i believe made it successfull.
and you are correct, i would prefer if they seperate both mode together as to not effect the other, but without seeing this change in the preview server, all this unwanted discussion and argument are just invalid without seeing it before hand.
From what I understand, there will be PvP and PvE dailies that grant Black Ice. To get the maximum amount of Black Ice per day, then you have to PvP and PvE, but there is nothing stopping someone from doing just PvP or PvE to get it. Of course, this is not on the test server yet so this is pure speculation on my part.
yes at this is all specualtion, and if we are not voicing our concerns and worries then forced pvp is just around the corner.
the way i am interpting crytpics actions, and the things they have said and are doing, pvp seams to be the game they want to change to.
pvp domnion
pvp gg
open instanced pvp, in same area as PVE.
sorry, this just feels like its moving towards pvp and away from pve.
if you go back and read the announcement for the upcoming module, they sure got excited about "factions", open world PVP, fighting over black ice. though they did said some pve, it sure sounds like alot more went into there proudly announced PVP portions. through there own words, the way it has been laid out so far, it sounds HEAVY pvp content with some pve token.
also sounds like "here have some more dailies" you can grind one shard of black ice a day, or you can play pvp and steal it, as much as you want.
so yes, dailies do not equate to content. exspecially if pvp is generating faster reward.