No I won't be leaving just yet, but I'll probably take a break and see if things get better/worse. I'm guessing the latter when they start adding to the cash store. This definitely isn't instilling me with the confidence to hand over any money though.
They have made zero comments on the matter despite countless complaints, but instead they have added even more stupidly expensive mounts to the cash shop. Their direction is obvious and it is not away from the P2W and price gouging that they are doing right now. I will freely admit that I am wasting my time at the moment, things will only get worse. If others have more money than sense then I have more time than sense.
To be fair, the 150-page thread had one PW member thanking us for the feedback.
As for me ... if the "too rich to fail" players become an issue, to the point that I'm no longer having fun, I'll stop playing & find another game. I've a feeling that won't come for another couple weeks or so, at the rate I'm leveling. Until then, I'm just going to do what I do & have as much fun as I can with it.
But honestly, even if I stay, I really can't see PWE making much money from me. I can see buying a few Enchanted Keys, & maybe a couple more character slots; any more than that, at this point, I can't justify at all. There's not one chance in this universe that I would pay $10 for a freekin' backpack, much less $40 for a mount, & the idea that I can't have fun at level 60 monster-bashing without spending $210 for a freekin' enchant fills me with bemusement.
OTOH, I can't help thinking that I'd be very capable of having fun without said enchantment, because it's not the ENCHANTMENT that will be the problem, but rather some amount of instant gratification brats who think that being able to spend that kind of scratch on a MMO makes them intellectually & morally superior to all other humans. I don't generally pay attention to that kind of player anyway; if they want to harangue me during a dungeon, that's what iggy is for, & if they want to kick me for not being as rich as they are, IMO that's their loss for not having my sterling, smiling, happy personality around to bolster their spirits.
It's all good.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
0
starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I find the items in the C-Store that people claim to be P2W are more for people that lack real skill like the rez scroll and health stone. If I am in full purple gear and the other is in just green gear, but is much better at playing than me, then I might stand a chance of surviving for a couple of minutes, but most likely I will be killed in PvP. Also, if someone that constantly dies during dungeon delves needs to use them to not be a complete waste of a spot, then they should be allowed to use such crutches.
I find the items in the C-Store that people claim to be P2W are more for people that lack real skill like the rez scroll and health stone. If I am in full purple gear and the other is in just green gear, but is much better at playing than me, then I might stand a chance of surviving for a couple of minutes, but most likely I will be killed in PvP. Also, if someone that constantly dies during dungeon delves needs to use them to not be a complete waste of a spot, then they should be allowed to use such crutches.
The items people consider pay to win aren't in the cash shop. They're on the auction house.
Couple of minutes? Even a GF can 2-3 shot someone if they're in epics and the target is in greens.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Every single thing in the cash shop can be acquired without paying a single cent. All it takes is time. You want to get something faster, or not spend the time and effort to get it, you can buy it. How is that different than the guy who farmed for 4 hours and got something?
While technically correct, the sheer amount of time it takes to get these items makes it disingenuousness to suggest that it's a viable option. This isn't a situation where you can either pay money or do a reasonable amount of grind to earn it. This is like saying you can pay to fly a plane from NY to LA, or you can walk the distance on foot. With a severe ankle injury. And no shoes.
And dogs are chasing you.
And you have to do it blindfolded.
Sure you can do it, but advertising it as some sort of privilege is silly.
Yes it is pay 2 win.
I have to wait 1 year to farm the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you buy in 5 mins from the cash shop.
You enjoy the new endgame content with the best enchants while I farm that year for the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> lower content.
You are so entitled to the best stuff in the game because you got a fat paycheck and I don't.
It so reeks of fairness.
So what you are saying is that as a player that goes to the Zen store and buys stuff can win this game?? Zen does not give you anything that gives you MORE power then any other player in the game besides a faster mount maybe. Even the companions are not necessarily better then what you are able to get in the game with a month or so of work. You can even get a Twilight Nightmare mount with a couple of months of doing dailies too.
So please do us all a favor and stop with the Pay to win comments. There is nothing in the Zen store that will make you BETTER then anyone else in the game with the exception of maybe a sense of fashion.
So what you are saying is that as a player that goes to the Zen store and buys stuff can win this game?? Zen does not give you anything that gives you MORE power then any other player in the game besides a faster mount maybe. Even the companions are not necessarily better then what you are able to get in the game with a month or so of work. You can even get a Twilight Nightmare mount with a couple of months of doing dailies too.
So please do us all a favor and stop with the Pay to win comments. There is nothing in the Zen store that will make you BETTER then anyone else in the game with the exception of maybe a sense of fashion.
Buying zen allows you to buy AD in huge amounts that allows you, in turn, to buy pretty much anything in game people are willing to sell. There is loot from Castle Never on the auction house right now.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Buying zen allows you to buy AD in huge amounts that allows you, in turn, to buy pretty much anything in game people are willing to sell. There is loot from Castle Never on the auction house right now.
It kinda blows my mind that people aren't getting this point.
I can get behind allowing people to convert AD > Zen, but Zen > AD bothers me. Effectively, PWE is selling "gold," & that IS "pay to win."
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
The MMO model has come a long way since the early days when people would complain that they were not as powerful as those who spent hours and hours grinding each day and raiding the highest dungeons in the game for the 'top' end gear.
Now, instead, you can bust out your wallet and instead of spending hours raiding for the best items, you can spend cash instead.
Sounds like pay to win to me.
The problem is, is that the people who put effort into the game should not be penalized because someone has a bigger credit card. That is the problem. If anyone wants to spend hours and days grinding the same dungeons/raid mobs for the best gear that's fine. But if player B opens up his wallet and can be as geared as player A in half the time with less time invested in his character, and less time involved in building skill...that's not as fine.
P2W items never should be in a cash shop. Pay to proceed items should not be either.
Take Lotro...they allow people to BUY inventory space (in vault/bank space) with GOLD until you have reach 120 slots. THEN you can purchase 15 additional slots x 2 (for a total of 30). You get 5 bags to begin with, and a 6th you can purchase for YOUR ENTIRE ACCOUNT. Not just ONE of your 6 initial toons, but the WHOLE ACCOUNT. That means across each server as well!!!!!!!
Also, in most other games, bags are either sold at high price or crafted by the players. None of this having to BUY with ZEN in a cash shop. This is the sticking point for me, and my sole grating issue (as I am not max level) with PW business model.
The only thing i see:
I want to be in the top tier gear wise players on the server, but i'm not willing to farm, grind, buy zen, do event, or looking for a guild to epic dungeon.
then it's pay to win because paying is the easier.
By the way you know Lotro had 3 expansion at 40$ and you have to pay to unlock the quest in each zones or suscrible for i think 8.99$ per month? Honestly i don't see how their model is better, you have to pay to enjoy having your bag you pay with gold.
I've farmed enough AD to buy a 4k zen mount in about 3 days by playing PvP. Winning games and getting good scores will get you over 1k glory per game, (even outside of glory bonus hours). You can get 100k AD or so per PvP item still.
Nothing in this game takes a year to farm, in fact you can farm enough AD to buy ANYTHING in the zenshop in a few days with a little dedication.
But I guess you post2whine kids consider paying for anything with AD also counts as paying to win.
they dont know anything about 60, they spent their time on the forum and reading the same thread they write in hope maybe the game developer will pity them and give them what they want without effort. Don't tell me it's not a childish attitude.
I've farmed enough AD to buy a 4k zen mount in about 3 days by playing PvP. Winning games and getting good scores will get you over 1k glory per game, (even outside of glory bonus hours). You can get 100k AD or so per PvP item still.
Nothing in this game takes a year to farm, in fact you can farm enough AD to buy ANYTHING in the zenshop in a few days with a little dedication.
But I guess you post2whine kids consider paying for anything with AD also counts as paying to win.
Where do you think people got the 100k AD to buy your pvp items? The leadership profession? Zen and the starter packs are an absolutely enormous influx of AD.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
What annoys me is that some people thinking that any sort of pay- ona "Free" game is a rip-off. IT's not, they have a business and they need to make money. However, selling bottles of what in hell for the price of a small car is not acceptable - for a game, just like paying 80% tax is not acceptable. Basically, the rich people are happy paying their taxes for the -free people to pay. Funny thing is, most rich people think they pay too much taxes, but not these kids who get too much money from mom and dad apparently.
Proven fact- after the "Earning" generation of money/wealth successive generations are less ambitious to succeed
(edit) Oh, and btw the online business will soon be paying taxes, like this one. I bet you anything regulation will come to this industry in one form or another if enough people complain about it.
What annoys me is that some people thinking that any sort of pay- ona "Free" game is a rip-off. IT's not, they have a business and they need to make money. However, selling bottles of what in hell for the price of a small car is not acceptable - for a game, just like paying 80% tax is not acceptable. Basically, the rich people are happy paying their taxes for the -free people to pay. Funny thing is, most rich people think they pay too much taxes, but not these kids who get too much money from mom and dad apparently.
Proven fact- after the "Earning" generation of money/wealth successive generation are less ambitious to succeed
Your argument assumes games have to be otherwise free in the first place. If freemium price gouging wasn't profitable then it wouldn't exist and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Your argument assumes games have to be otherwise free in the first place. If freemium price gouging wasn't profitable then it wouldn't exist and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. If you choose to be frivolous, you can you're right. I said nothing about having to be free, I mean where did you learn to read?
Pay to win is being able to PAY real money to WIN in the game; specifically it is buying character power. In Neverwinter power is levels or gear; You can buy Zen, then buy AD with your zen, Then buy the BEST GEAR off the AH.
Therefore you can PAY real money to have the BEST gear; Paying....to...win. There are other examples of this game being pay to win; this argument is old; get over yourself.
Pay to win what? This is a pve game with a small pvp feature, not some competitive E-sport thing. Does it really annoy you that much to know some people killed some lair boss before you?
pay to win what? This is a pve game with a small pvp feature, not some competitive e-sport thing. Does it really annoy you that much to know some people killed some lair boss before you?
Pay to win what? This is a pve game with a small pvp feature, not some competitive E-sport thing. Does it really annoy you that much to know some people killed some lair boss before you?
It still defeats the object of working to get the gear in the first place. Also how many groups are asking for 10k GS+ and not allowing free to play players to join. Just because the PvP is a pathetic afterthought here doesn't justify making the whole game pay to win. The main target audience are still more than stupid enough to buy into it though.
Pay to win is being able to PAY real money to WIN in the game; specifically it is buying character power. In Neverwinter power is levels or gear; You can buy Zen, then buy AD with your zen, Then buy the BEST GEAR off the AH.
Therefore you can PAY real money to have the BEST gear; Paying....to...win. There are other examples of this game being pay to win; this argument is old; get over yourself.
Alright find me a single free mmorpg that is not pay to win. According to your logic every single game, every single hobby, every aspect of your life is affected by pay to win. Money has buy almost everything in the past 2 thousands years, you don't really impress me.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. If you choose to be frivolous, you can you're right. I said nothing about having to be free, I mean where did you learn to read?
Obviously a different place then you did, your reply to mine makes very little sense. What doesn't work?
If paying for things in a game makes the people you smash wish they'd bought zen too, then you actually paid PWE to be advertising for them.
There are two main schools of thought in paying for otherwise free games. Call one the Path of Exile version where money gets you no in game edge at all. The other is PWE's model (and it's shared by others). You don't NEED to spend money but the system is designed to leverage unhappiness on people who stubbornly don't spend anything. Look at the horses. 5g horse will dismount you at level 60 if you get hit by a mob for 1, 1, and 1 damage.
You claim that it can't be a ripoff because they're a business that needs to make money. Why go here when the right to profit is such a mess of an argument? PWE shareholders have a right to expect PWE to squeeze every last penny out of you based on their business model. It's not an excuse, it's sad.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Pay to win what? This is a pve game with a small pvp feature, not some competitive E-sport thing. Does it really annoy you that much to know some people killed some lair boss before you?
1. storage space
2. repecing with broken feats and just messing around to see how you want to play $6 a pop. I'll go get a couple beers at the local pub for that. better times.
2. enchants - for pvp - if you notice the pvp channel on twitch is being viewed far more than pve - for your small feature ...
the fact you don't understand that annoys me.
it's $5 to add 2 more charaters that will come with 30- slot bags and bank space? and $6 bucks to add a 12 slot to a current charater.. hmm
they sell 2g old companion on the zen store for $10 hoping to catch a sucker. gg
Alright find me a single free mmorpg that is not pay to win. According to your logic every single game, every single hobby, every aspect of your life is affected by pay to win. Money has buy almost everything in the past 2 thousands years, you don't really impress me.
Path of Exile is as much of an MMO as this with all the instancing and that isn't pay to win, Planetside 2 is all sidegrades and cosmetics and in game prices are affordable. I'm sure there are more, that's just the last 2 I played.
0
terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
I appreciate the effort but the people who just want to rant and are using the claim of P2W to do so will just ignore you. Also keep in mind that it is primarily [not totally but primarily] the PVP crowd that is moaning about this.
Obviously a different place then you did, your reply to mine makes very little sense. What doesn't work?
If paying for things in a game makes the people you smash wish they'd bought zen too, then you actually paid PWE to be advertising for them.
There are two main schools of thought in paying for otherwise free games. Call one the Path of Exile version where money gets you no in game edge at all. The other is PWE's model (and it's shared by others). You don't NEED to spend money but the system is designed to leverage unhappiness on people who stubbornly don't spend anything. Look at the horses. 5g horse will dismount you at level 60 if you get hit by a mob for 1, 1, and 1 damage.
You claim that it can't be a ripoff because they're a business that needs to make money. Why go here when the right to profit is such a mess of an argument? PWE shareholders have a right to expect PWE to squeeze every last penny out of you based on their business model. It's not an excuse, it's sad.
What annoys me is that some people thinking that any sort of pay- ona "Free" game is a rip-off. IT's not, they have a business and they need to make money.
pretty sure that's what i said, with a however - they are gouging I mean really? where did you learn to read?
I hope you find a right to profit IRL someday seriously - right to profit and right to gouge not the same thing.
What annoys me is that some people thinking that any sort of pay- ona "Free" game is a rip-off. IT's not, they have a business and they need to make money.
pretty sure that's what i said, with a however - they are gouging I mean really? where did you learn to read?
I hope you find a right to profit IRL someday seriously - right to profit and right to gouge not the same thing.
I've yet to see anyone complain that any sort of spending ability on a free game is a ripoff. Either your comment is misplaced or you didn't read the thread because this entire thread is about paying to win, not just being able to pay. I think my confusion comes from the absurdity of your initial statement because I gave it more credit then was due. My bad!
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Path of Exile is as much of an MMO as this with all the instancing and that isn't pay to win, Planetside 2 is all sidegrades and cosmetics and in game prices are affordable. I'm sure there are more, that's just the last 2 I played.
You can buy everything with real money currency, weapons included.
Unless we both agree that people make up post to make game look bad and had no idea what they talk about.
Really? being able to buy gear off real money trading sites makes a game pay to win?
I think most people use an operative definition of the phrase "pay to win" to encompass situations where the company creates a pay $ to succeed framework baked into the game. Sorta like a "spend $" button on the UI.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
You can buy everything with real money currency, weapons included.
Unless we both agree that people make up post to make game look bad and had no idea what they talk about.
The sheer idiocy you fanboys show will never ceases to amaze me. So I guess you are going to claim because J2SP exists PoE is pay to win. I guess you haven't even looked at how either of the games work. PoE has a purely cosmetic cash shop, any purchases from 3rd party websites is a bannable offence.
I already said the weapons are sidegrades in PS2, if you knew how it worked many of the standard guns are the best in class. Also weapons are easily obtainable in game with a few hours play. Here is a completely different story, and why anyone would defend such ludicrous prices in a generic MMO with minimal mechanics/features astounds me.
Comments
They have made zero comments on the matter despite countless complaints, but instead they have added even more stupidly expensive mounts to the cash shop. Their direction is obvious and it is not away from the P2W and price gouging that they are doing right now. I will freely admit that I am wasting my time at the moment, things will only get worse. If others have more money than sense then I have more time than sense.
To be fair, the 150-page thread had one PW member thanking us for the feedback.
As for me ... if the "too rich to fail" players become an issue, to the point that I'm no longer having fun, I'll stop playing & find another game. I've a feeling that won't come for another couple weeks or so, at the rate I'm leveling. Until then, I'm just going to do what I do & have as much fun as I can with it.
But honestly, even if I stay, I really can't see PWE making much money from me. I can see buying a few Enchanted Keys, & maybe a couple more character slots; any more than that, at this point, I can't justify at all. There's not one chance in this universe that I would pay $10 for a freekin' backpack, much less $40 for a mount, & the idea that I can't have fun at level 60 monster-bashing without spending $210 for a freekin' enchant fills me with bemusement.
OTOH, I can't help thinking that I'd be very capable of having fun without said enchantment, because it's not the ENCHANTMENT that will be the problem, but rather some amount of instant gratification brats who think that being able to spend that kind of scratch on a MMO makes them intellectually & morally superior to all other humans. I don't generally pay attention to that kind of player anyway; if they want to harangue me during a dungeon, that's what iggy is for, & if they want to kick me for not being as rich as they are, IMO that's their loss for not having my sterling, smiling, happy personality around to bolster their spirits.
It's all good.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
The items people consider pay to win aren't in the cash shop. They're on the auction house.
Couple of minutes? Even a GF can 2-3 shot someone if they're in epics and the target is in greens.
While technically correct, the sheer amount of time it takes to get these items makes it disingenuousness to suggest that it's a viable option. This isn't a situation where you can either pay money or do a reasonable amount of grind to earn it. This is like saying you can pay to fly a plane from NY to LA, or you can walk the distance on foot. With a severe ankle injury. And no shoes.
And dogs are chasing you.
And you have to do it blindfolded.
Sure you can do it, but advertising it as some sort of privilege is silly.
So please do us all a favor and stop with the Pay to win comments. There is nothing in the Zen store that will make you BETTER then anyone else in the game with the exception of maybe a sense of fashion.
Buying zen allows you to buy AD in huge amounts that allows you, in turn, to buy pretty much anything in game people are willing to sell. There is loot from Castle Never on the auction house right now.
It kinda blows my mind that people aren't getting this point.
I can get behind allowing people to convert AD > Zen, but Zen > AD bothers me. Effectively, PWE is selling "gold," & that IS "pay to win."
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
The only thing i see:
I want to be in the top tier gear wise players on the server, but i'm not willing to farm, grind, buy zen, do event, or looking for a guild to epic dungeon.
then it's pay to win because paying is the easier.
By the way you know Lotro had 3 expansion at 40$ and you have to pay to unlock the quest in each zones or suscrible for i think 8.99$ per month? Honestly i don't see how their model is better, you have to pay to enjoy having your bag you pay with gold.
Nothing in this game takes a year to farm, in fact you can farm enough AD to buy ANYTHING in the zenshop in a few days with a little dedication.
But I guess you post2whine kids consider paying for anything with AD also counts as paying to win.
Where do you think people got the 100k AD to buy your pvp items? The leadership profession? Zen and the starter packs are an absolutely enormous influx of AD.
Proven fact- after the "Earning" generation of money/wealth successive generations are less ambitious to succeed
.http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/15/16525597-more-money-from-parents-lower-college-grades-study-finds?lite
(edit) Oh, and btw the online business will soon be paying taxes, like this one. I bet you anything regulation will come to this industry in one form or another if enough people complain about it.
Your argument assumes games have to be otherwise free in the first place. If freemium price gouging wasn't profitable then it wouldn't exist and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. If you choose to be frivolous, you can you're right. I said nothing about having to be free, I mean where did you learn to read?
Therefore you can PAY real money to have the BEST gear; Paying....to...win. There are other examples of this game being pay to win; this argument is old; get over yourself.
it makes teh e-peen shrink
It still defeats the object of working to get the gear in the first place. Also how many groups are asking for 10k GS+ and not allowing free to play players to join. Just because the PvP is a pathetic afterthought here doesn't justify making the whole game pay to win. The main target audience are still more than stupid enough to buy into it though.
Alright find me a single free mmorpg that is not pay to win. According to your logic every single game, every single hobby, every aspect of your life is affected by pay to win. Money has buy almost everything in the past 2 thousands years, you don't really impress me.
Obviously a different place then you did, your reply to mine makes very little sense. What doesn't work?
If paying for things in a game makes the people you smash wish they'd bought zen too, then you actually paid PWE to be advertising for them.
There are two main schools of thought in paying for otherwise free games. Call one the Path of Exile version where money gets you no in game edge at all. The other is PWE's model (and it's shared by others). You don't NEED to spend money but the system is designed to leverage unhappiness on people who stubbornly don't spend anything. Look at the horses. 5g horse will dismount you at level 60 if you get hit by a mob for 1, 1, and 1 damage.
You claim that it can't be a ripoff because they're a business that needs to make money. Why go here when the right to profit is such a mess of an argument? PWE shareholders have a right to expect PWE to squeeze every last penny out of you based on their business model. It's not an excuse, it's sad.
2. repecing with broken feats and just messing around to see how you want to play $6 a pop. I'll go get a couple beers at the local pub for that. better times.
2. enchants - for pvp - if you notice the pvp channel on twitch is being viewed far more than pve - for your small feature ...
the fact you don't understand that annoys me.
it's $5 to add 2 more charaters that will come with 30- slot bags and bank space? and $6 bucks to add a 12 slot to a current charater.. hmm
they sell 2g old companion on the zen store for $10 hoping to catch a sucker. gg
Path of Exile is as much of an MMO as this with all the instancing and that isn't pay to win, Planetside 2 is all sidegrades and cosmetics and in game prices are affordable. I'm sure there are more, that's just the last 2 I played.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
pretty sure that's what i said, with a however - they are gouging I mean really? where did you learn to read?
I hope you find a right to profit IRL someday seriously - right to profit and right to gouge not the same thing.
I've yet to see anyone complain that any sort of spending ability on a free game is a ripoff. Either your comment is misplaced or you didn't read the thread because this entire thread is about paying to win, not just being able to pay. I think my confusion comes from the absurdity of your initial statement because I gave it more credit then was due. My bad!
No they are all p2w look:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/135162/page/1
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/how-much-pay-to-win.59771/
You can buy everything with real money currency, weapons included.
Unless we both agree that people make up post to make game look bad and had no idea what they talk about.
Really? being able to buy gear off real money trading sites makes a game pay to win?
I think most people use an operative definition of the phrase "pay to win" to encompass situations where the company creates a pay $ to succeed framework baked into the game. Sorta like a "spend $" button on the UI.
The sheer idiocy you fanboys show will never ceases to amaze me. So I guess you are going to claim because J2SP exists PoE is pay to win. I guess you haven't even looked at how either of the games work. PoE has a purely cosmetic cash shop, any purchases from 3rd party websites is a bannable offence.
I already said the weapons are sidegrades in PS2, if you knew how it worked many of the standard guns are the best in class. Also weapons are easily obtainable in game with a few hours play. Here is a completely different story, and why anyone would defend such ludicrous prices in a generic MMO with minimal mechanics/features astounds me.