You realize that its a 10 man trial, with 1 single drop? even if its 1 drop and they sell it for 30 mil, there arent many people out there rushing to buy it, so the price will drop and drop and drop until it will reach a decent price, maybe 8 mil AD, and all of that is going to get split in 10. because no one will agree to pick up the loot and keep it for themselves. Running few times a difficult dugneon with a group of people creates bonds which also helps at improving trust, so no one is going to ninja loot, because no one is going to play that Trial with him... I dont kno where are your concerns coming from thou... the game in module 0 was exactly like this, and people were scared of public queue and not the private groups, while this Trial is intended to private groups mostly, to guilds, to friends, i have no idea why you want to trivialize this Trial, like the rest of the game is right now.. imo all of the other Dungeons should follow the example of this Trial, make them hard, and rewarding with BoE.
First, how am I trying to trivialize the trial like the rest of the game? I want the trial to be harder or have you missed that part? Go back and read what I posted. Even in a prior post where I asked for a normal I wanted the master version if it could be done, to be harder. Again, never have I asked for the trial to be gimped so that elite players don't have something worth running.
As for my where I'm coming from; I'm looking at this from a bigger picture and the impact this mod will have to full game community and not a select few. IMO content needs to be designed for most players and if you design content that is specifically for elite end game player you need to have a similar option with lower awards for the average player. It is why I am all for normal and master content. Master content should have additional mechanics, enemies with high stats and BtA awards that are better than what is found in normal.
This update is for the 5% and more than likely the same group that doesn't need the AD from a 8M ring sale.
I m in no way elite, or consider myself elite, and to be honest not even the people that tried on preview the trial are that elite or hardcore... a Trial was released and some players are testing it, what makes them Elite? what makes you think they are the only ones can do it? make your group if you dont like that specific group, run with your friends, guilds or with stranger and challenge the content, i do not understand where is this fear coming from, and why people can't see that all of this "i want a piece of cake without effort" is actually ruining the game, it wasn't PVP players and it's not these 5% elitist soya milk dairy free players ruining the game, its you the majority on the forum, that will always try to nerf everythin that can drive players to do someth, reason why population left in this game is exactly this, Dungeons aren't the main attractive part of the game, its all of these boring micro mini games like quests and campaigns and heroics, all of these errands.. Game peaked when Dungeons were difficult and rewarding and items were BoE.
Developers respondend already making a lower version would mean taking time to make a newer dungeon, i am not trying to pick a fight here, but if you are trying to see the bigger picture, try to see other perspectives, because i am not speakin from the perspective of a 26k item level player, i speak from a player that can't take all of these brain dead campaigns, and for once there is a Trial where we can consider it challenging and it should stay that way, because it's the only way to educate players and also make developers to relase even better ones, so that the game gains retention and other newer players will join and get the same thrill... If you dont understand it, go on Preview and try it yourself.
All honesty I want the current ToMM to be harder not easier. That is just me. But at the same time I try to look at the bigger picture and that is the community and how the average players will react. Wait until mod 17 hits; than people will post it needs to be adjusted/lowered. Than it will hit console and if it is not fixed prior to console launch more players will come here and do the same. That is asking for the content to be fixed to be easier.
Do you remember the mechanic of CODG for the original push pull. I loved it and you know what happened to many players could not stay up so the pull push was adjusted to be EASIER and yet still people fell off. I could do CoDG pull push in my sleep almost because it was so easy, prior to the fix and than it became so easy my dog almost could do it.
I'm just speaking from experience as I have seen this type of situation in a MMO more than once now. It is why content needs to be design around the average player, especially when the game creates minimum content annually. With that said, if the devs want to create harder content simply tweak the normal and make it harder and add a few additional mechanics. Seen this done plenty in other games and has worked well.
Good example you gave, so CODG pull and push phase was doable, it was taking a bit of time to get the mechanic right, but once you done it, you felt good. So what the community done in response of learning the mechanic. 1. They started to log off when the mechanic was around (so Developers fixed that by placing a 30s timer for log outs) 2. They were asking for a Campfire, no other Trial has a campfire between Phases, yet they wanted a campfire. 3. They asked for it to be nerfed, which like you said it was easy for you, for me, and many others, yet alot of people complained and gave reasons to cover their learning skill.
So CODG now is easy, used to be better, was the only content in awhile that put players to actually do someth different, to just kill mobs and win...
So the problem is with the current TOMM? or is with the Community incapable of learning? Or is it with people not giving others a chance to learn how to play, so we make content easy for them?
I think it is somehwere in between, i DO think content should be DIFFICULT, and even if you fail you try it again, and again until you succed. This is the main reason why Playerbase left, because END GAME isn't ENDGAME, you can't make Dungeons lasts less than Heroic Encounters? you can't make Dungeons be easier than a QUEST, DUNGEONS ARE THERE as END GAME, its a REPEATITIVE DIFFICULT CONTENT that requires time, work, and be rewarded for it.
Look what happened with Community when they butchered the Dungeons in m6... or look how people react to a Dungeon that is easy to be done, like minutes... Dungeons need to come back strong, with strong mechanics, and NO CUTSCENES to trick you into thinking the Dungeon is LONG.
TOMM doesnt have cutscenes, isnt that someth?
Nah, the devs adjusted back the difficulty of codg by removing the red circle from the AoE, making the player think more and move a lot in the phases, so they can get away from the expected attack. That's a hard, skillchecking content and needs a lot of experience and keen senses. *sarcasm*
Now, on a more serious note, the main issue I think is that if you only give 1 trial to everyone, everyone thinks that it's given to them. Now, theoretically, tomm is more clear on gatekeeping with the 24k IL requirement and the 30k counterstats (and will fall flat on it's face when released, because the best gear is actually pretty low item level, so people with worse chance to succeed will feel more encouraged to try) and as all content, will be naturally easier to do with the time progressing. Mostly because people who got the Lionheart set for them will lower the necessary DPS for the others.
So, in essence, I agree, tomm does not need to be made easier, because it will get easier. And let's not kid ourselves, players will find ways to make things easier for them (like, the log off).
And btw, I like the (skippable) cutscenes. And the readjusting of codg was a hellish experience, because I had to adjust again for the changed attack, so I fell because I was good for the wrong situation
You realize that its a 10 man trial, with 1 single drop? even if its 1 drop and they sell it for 30 mil, there arent many people out there rushing to buy it, so the price will drop and drop and drop until it will reach a decent price, maybe 8 mil AD, and all of that is going to get split in 10. because no one will agree to pick up the loot and keep it for themselves. Running few times a difficult dugneon with a group of people creates bonds which also helps at improving trust, so no one is going to ninja loot, because no one is going to play that Trial with him... I dont kno where are your concerns coming from thou... the game in module 0 was exactly like this, and people were scared of public queue and not the private groups, while this Trial is intended to private groups mostly, to guilds, to friends, i have no idea why you want to trivialize this Trial, like the rest of the game is right now.. imo all of the other Dungeons should follow the example of this Trial, make them hard, and rewarding with BoE.
First, how am I trying to trivialize the trial like the rest of the game? I want the trial to be harder or have you missed that part? Go back and read what I posted. Even in a prior post where I asked for a normal I wanted the master version if it could be done, to be harder. Again, never have I asked for the trial to be gimped so that elite players don't have something worth running.
As for my where I'm coming from; I'm looking at this from a bigger picture and the impact this mod will have to full game community and not a select few. IMO content needs to be designed for most players and if you design content that is specifically for elite end game player you need to have a similar option with lower awards for the average player. It is why I am all for normal and master content. Master content should have additional mechanics, enemies with high stats and BtA awards that are better than what is found in normal.
This update is for the 5% and more than likely the same group that doesn't need the AD from a 8M ring sale.
I m in no way elite, or consider myself elite, and to be honest not even the people that tried on preview the trial are that elite or hardcore... a Trial was released and some players are testing it, what makes them Elite? what makes you think they are the only ones can do it? make your group if you dont like that specific group, run with your friends, guilds or with stranger and challenge the content, i do not understand where is this fear coming from, and why people can't see that all of this "i want a piece of cake without effort" is actually ruining the game, it wasn't PVP players and it's not these 5% elitist soya milk dairy free players ruining the game, its you the majority on the forum, that will always try to nerf everythin that can drive players to do someth, reason why population left in this game is exactly this, Dungeons aren't the main attractive part of the game, its all of these boring micro mini games like quests and campaigns and heroics, all of these errands.. Game peaked when Dungeons were difficult and rewarding and items were BoE.
Developers respondend already making a lower version would mean taking time to make a newer dungeon, i am not trying to pick a fight here, but if you are trying to see the bigger picture, try to see other perspectives, because i am not speakin from the perspective of a 26k item level player, i speak from a player that can't take all of these brain dead campaigns, and for once there is a Trial where we can consider it challenging and it should stay that way, because it's the only way to educate players and also make developers to relase even better ones, so that the game gains retention and other newer players will join and get the same thrill... If you dont understand it, go on Preview and try it yourself.
All honesty I want the current ToMM to be harder not easier. That is just me. But at the same time I try to look at the bigger picture and that is the community and how the average players will react. Wait until mod 17 hits; than people will post it needs to be adjusted/lowered. Than it will hit console and if it is not fixed prior to console launch more players will come here and do the same. That is asking for the content to be fixed to be easier.
Do you remember the mechanic of CODG for the original push pull. I loved it and you know what happened to many players could not stay up so the pull push was adjusted to be EASIER and yet still people fell off. I could do CoDG pull push in my sleep almost because it was so easy, prior to the fix and than it became so easy my dog almost could do it.
I'm just speaking from experience as I have seen this type of situation in a MMO more than once now. It is why content needs to be design around the average player, especially when the game creates minimum content annually. With that said, if the devs want to create harder content simply tweak the normal and make it harder and add a few additional mechanics. Seen this done plenty in other games and has worked well.
Good example you gave, so CODG pull and push phase was doable, it was taking a bit of time to get the mechanic right, but once you done it, you felt good. So what the community done in response of learning the mechanic. 1. They started to log off when the mechanic was around (so Developers fixed that by placing a 30s timer for log outs) 2. They were asking for a Campfire, no other Trial has a campfire between Phases, yet they wanted a campfire. 3. They asked for it to be nerfed, which like you said it was easy for you, for me, and many others, yet alot of people complained and gave reasons to cover their learning skill.
So CODG now is easy, used to be better, was the only content in awhile that put players to actually do someth different, to just kill mobs and win...
So the problem is with the current TOMM? or is with the Community incapable of learning? Or is it with people not giving others a chance to learn how to play, so we make content easy for them?
I think it is somehwere in between, i DO think content should be DIFFICULT, and even if you fail you try it again, and again until you succed. This is the main reason why Playerbase left, because END GAME isn't ENDGAME, you can't make Dungeons lasts less than Heroic Encounters? you can't make Dungeons be easier than a QUEST, DUNGEONS ARE THERE as END GAME, its a REPEATITIVE DIFFICULT CONTENT that requires time, work, and be rewarded for it.
Look what happened with Community when they butchered the Dungeons in m6... or look how people react to a Dungeon that is easy to be done, like minutes... Dungeons need to come back strong, with strong mechanics, and NO CUTSCENES to trick you into thinking the Dungeon is LONG.
TOMM doesnt have cutscenes, isnt that someth?
The devs tried to give the players wanted they wanted a challenge in scaling and bam it got fixed because content was to hard. Older content and there was no awards to match the effort. As the devs pointed out the award was the AD you get from completing content.
Just like I did with scaling I'm doing the same with ToMM. I'm here stating the issue is not the content its not the difficulty. It just that the average gamer who plays NWO won't be able to run it and those players will feel slighted by this mod because there isn't much to do unless you want to bore yourself with ME which most players have been doing since mod 16 dropped. That won't hold to many players attention.
I quickly want to touch on scaling; I hate it because its never implemented correctly. I even asked for hard stat caps - including power and HP. This would have made content challenging but not impossible if you don't over gear your character. Content would be challenging do to stats being properly capped and devs didn't need to nerf enemies health. That is all behind us and it is where it is now which is far from perfect but better than the 4/22 release.
Same can be said for CoDG, it is better now for many compared to its original release.
ToMM will be in the same boat eventually; I have feeling things will be adjusted once it goes live, because as is, people will complain and with enough complaints comes a change to content.
I'm waiting to see if the devs will cave in and do a patch on 8/20 or 8/27 that will fix ToMM which will make it easier for more players to complete it.
I have to agree with @mebengalsfan#9264 here, ME's or okay, but they get boring fast, I don't even bother with them any more, I don't bother with LoMM any more, and I don't bother with any of the other dungeons any more. Either the average player can't run them, so it's hard to find a group, (mostly talking about fbi/msp/tong/cr here) or they are just not worth running period, not even sure if the average player runs t1 or t2 content other than demo anymore tbh.
They really need to do something to bring back all this old content into viability again. I've proposed creating a way to "exalt" older weapons and artifact sets to be of the same ilvl as the current more, this would increase the diversity in builds, and if the reagents to "exalt" the gear/weaps was BoE, would create a whole new market in game. And if each older dungeon dropped unique reagents for gear from that content, then all the old dungeons would be worth running again. Just one idea, but I do think it's a decent one.
As for ToMM, I'll prolly run it to get the weap set and that's it. Another mod of waiting for the next mod and the pvp queues to pop or groups to form. If only the older dungeons were worth running again.... if only there were several choices of weapons that would be BiS based on build and player style....
barbie is right here too, need more skill checks in older dungeons. What's really cool about ToMM is that the skill checks are a culmination of a lot of previous mechanics and skill checks. So, for people concerned about a normal version for training, running the older dungeons will be good training for ToMM xD
just to offer a different perspective. I made a group of ppl in my Alliance to try and practice the Trial on preview. These players were not the best of the best, not the "elites", just long-time players that have reached endgame. We ran it on 2 days now, each time for about 2 hours. The best we got was 50% hp on the 3rd Phase. It definitly feals doable with this group once we get more practice in and everyone understands the mechanics properly. TomM really isnt incredibly hard. Its just way harder then anything else in the game atm. If ppl are dedicated and dont give up instantly they will be able to complete it.
So pls dont make it any easier! If anything, you could even increase the difficulty abit.
I made a group of ppl in my Alliance to try and practice the Trial on preview. These players were not the best of the best, not the "elites", just long-time players that have reached endgame. We ran it on 2 days now, each time for about 2 hours. The best we got was 50% hp on the 3rd Phase. It definitly feals doable with this group once we get more practice in and everyone understands the mechanics properly. TomM really isnt incredibly hard. Its just way harder then anything else in the game atm. If ppl are dedicated and dont give up instantly they will be able to complete it.
So pls dont make it any easier! If anything, you could even increase the difficulty abit.
Glad to hear your team was making progress, I hope you were all finding the trial enjoyable to progress on! We are currently not planning to make any sweeping adjustments to make the trial easier. The main changes from the build currently on preview to our final build for live have already been made. Here's a brief outline highlighting the more important changes:
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this.
Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered.
The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes.
The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.)
The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced.
The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased.
Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players.
Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this. Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered. The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes. The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.) The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced. The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased. Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players. Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
Just make sure the rewards are worth the effort. The old Castle Never was tough, at one point, and the rewards were worth the time and effort.
I made a group of ppl in my Alliance to try and practice the Trial on preview. These players were not the best of the best, not the "elites", just long-time players that have reached endgame. We ran it on 2 days now, each time for about 2 hours. The best we got was 50% hp on the 3rd Phase. It definitly feals doable with this group once we get more practice in and everyone understands the mechanics properly. TomM really isnt incredibly hard. Its just way harder then anything else in the game atm. If ppl are dedicated and dont give up instantly they will be able to complete it.
So pls dont make it any easier! If anything, you could even increase the difficulty abit.
Glad to hear your team was making progress, I hope you were all finding the trial enjoyable to progress on! We are currently not planning to make any sweeping adjustments to make the trial easier. The main changes from the build currently on preview to our final build for live have already been made. Here's a brief outline highlighting the more important changes:
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this.
Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered.
The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes.
The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.)
The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced.
The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased.
Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players.
Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
glad to hear that and thanks for outlining the changes that will be made. Really looking forward to M17 now, keep up the good work.
@mebengalsfan#9264 See this is where i disagree, ToMM problem for community is not going to be Gear, Gear can be farmed, bought etc. and they will reach the item level, especially 23k that is being asked in Private queue, now its not about the Gear you will not be able to finish it, and i will tell you the reason why you wont finish it, same as people dying in CODG, there is a skill check and understanding mechanics, there will be problably few groups that can do it consistently, and the rest will not be able to do, even if it's going to be lower item level, the point of item level is simple, you still need the stats, so if they drop the item level, it means it becomes easier by default since we can stack more DPS, now there is no need to make TOMM like the rest, but MAKE the rest like TOMM, people need skill checks and people need to know how to use their stats... i don't want to tell you anything, but casual players love to play solo, and Trials aren't meant to be done Solo, neither Dungeons.. These pieces of content require to be played togheter and work togheter to finish.
When you ask less item level, you directly ask for less stats.. therefor more powers, people will drop their companion with stats etc. There are plenty of reasons why it should stay with the item level that is. And t his is a content that is going to drive people to Gear and try, not just log it once i can't finish it, im going on the forum to cry, they need to gear up, and work to finish it, to repay that they worked hard to reach that level.
Also you dont seem to reply to anything that people ask you back, you just write something extra and we keep replying to you, but you dont try to keep the conversation going, but going offtopic.
I don't think gear or IL is going to be the problem for people to getting into the dungeon as you pointed out. I agree it is a skill check to know what to do to complete ToMM. The reality is; even ToMM lack good mechanics that requires some type of skill or group coordination. Its better than prior content but still grammar school level of skill compared to other mmo games I have played.
As for IL or gear score ranking for dungeon I know why they exist I'm not new to MMOs or why developers place those on content. Did you not read my post about actually raising the content IL and even making ToMM harder with additional mechanics?
I don't think you get what I'm stating about what I asking and what I would like to actually see for myself vs. what I think the game actually should have. For me ToMM is actually too easy IMO. In fact it needs more mechanics that require the group to work as a team that requires communication to execute. It needs to be harder, have a high IL requirement, more mechanical, and the reward should be just a title and some new unique style. That to me would be worth it.
As for what the game should deliver on to hold the attention of its average player is a normal ToMM and keep the current one but rename it Master ToMM. I know that isn't going to happen. I believe what is on test will more than likely be what will go to the live server. It will be a matter of time before ToMM is adjusted to be EASIER. I'm not saying what will be adjust or how much easier it will become. I'm making an assumption based on Cryptic and other developers pass records of adjusting harder and challenging content after it launch to be a bit easier so that more players can beat the content. Just look at CoDG as an example.
As for your comment about player needing to gear up and keep trying; I'm laughing because I've seen the same type of comment in other games and that still does not stop people asking the devs to adjust content to be easier. Don't forget what may not show up here may show up on FB or Twitter or in game chat.
Just to be clear ToMM should be harder, not easier and the reward for completing it is knowing that can complete it. That is my view.
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I made a group of ppl in my Alliance to try and practice the Trial on preview. These players were not the best of the best, not the "elites", just long-time players that have reached endgame. We ran it on 2 days now, each time for about 2 hours. The best we got was 50% hp on the 3rd Phase. It definitly feals doable with this group once we get more practice in and everyone understands the mechanics properly. TomM really isnt incredibly hard. Its just way harder then anything else in the game atm. If ppl are dedicated and dont give up instantly they will be able to complete it.
So pls dont make it any easier! If anything, you could even increase the difficulty abit.
Glad to hear your team was making progress, I hope you were all finding the trial enjoyable to progress on! We are currently not planning to make any sweeping adjustments to make the trial easier. The main changes from the build currently on preview to our final build for live have already been made. Here's a brief outline highlighting the more important changes:
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this.
Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered.
The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes.
The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.)
The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced.
The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased.
Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players.
Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
@asterdahl I recommend waiting on lowering the damage values of attacks until the bug where outgoing healing bonus is removed by permafrost is fixed. It severely skews balance with regards to healing and it results in artificial difficulty that would not exist without the bug. I think that if the bug is fixed, the damage values on heatwave should in fact be increased, not decreased.
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this. Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered. The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes. The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.) The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced. The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased. Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players. Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
Just make sure the rewards are worth the effort. The old Castle Never was tough, at one point, and the rewards were worth the time and effort.
NOTE: I still lament the removal of the old CN
You aren't the only one, brother. Instead of claiming, "players don't want a dungeon this long", they should add it to Tales of Old and see how it's received. I think the devs will be surprised.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It would be nice to have something to do in this game. lomm is boring and the rewards are poo. all the other dungeons not being level 80 are boring. no one runs codg anymore because most of hte older player base seems to be gone and the new comers who are replacing them never had a chance to learn mechanics to stay on and what's the point now? mes for a daily chance at artifact.. and the new ptw lockbox has an artifact pack so the price is already falling on those anyway... so boring now. economy is shot so no real opportunity to even stand around trading at this point. honestly I'm on to cod for the most part now.
every past mod has had some way of farming some ad from drops. that kept people playing and helped new players buy gear to gear up. this mod doesn't really have that and the only thing that was close was just devalued by the lockbox. and they keep doing sale after sale along with that leg mount insignia pack which seems to have higher drop rates or something. the market is FLOODED on xbox.
and earlier in this thread devs talking about not wanting to devalue things by having them bound to equip because devalue while they devalue things on a much bigger basis than that would ever do.
Post edited by thefiresidecat on
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Halaster is once again targetable during the final DPS check! I apologize for this issue, and appreciate the patience of the groups that had to deal with this. Hypothermia vulnerability is now working as intended, you can no longer double stack hypothermias. Anyone hit by both will receive lethal damage. This was always the intent for double hypothermias, however, due to some issues we had to resolve on the backend this was never the case in any of our preview builds. I apologize for how long that issue has lingered. The enrage timer during phase 3 has been increased from 10 minutes to 12.5 minutes. The base damage dealt by arcane blast has been slightly reduced but imminent annihilation now increases the damage dealt by all of Halaster's arcane spells. (Arcane Blast, Annihilation, and Disintegration Wave.) The damage of Heatwave, Sueprstorm and Whiteout have been slightly reduced. The damage dealt by cloud to ground has been slightly increased. Unavoidable damage sources no longer affect permafrosted players. Halaster no longer hangs out on top of creeping ice during the fire-ice phase if no one moves within melee range.
Just make sure the rewards are worth the effort. The old Castle Never was tough, at one point, and the rewards were worth the time and effort.
NOTE: I still lament the removal of the old CN
You aren't the only one, brother. Instead of claiming, "players don't want a dungeon this long", they should add it to Tales of Old and see how it's received. I think the devs will be surprised.
I think they changed their mind on a lot of things and while jumping to a 90 min dungeon is a big leap, maybe a 45-60 min long would be a good start. Making 4-5 boss instead of 3, just to get out of the formula.
“Though the required item level to enter new dungeons will rise, the mechanical acumen and coordination required will not rise significantly over other recent dungeons.”
So how do you measure or determine the “mechanical acumen and coordination required” for any given piece of content?
I’m interested in this because it speaks to actual gaming skill, not just to the power/IL of your character.
Whatever skill is actually required to run any content in this game, it seems to be totally swamped by Item Level, at least in any objective sense. So if you’re actually evaluating content on some skill-based measures, I’m curious what they are and how you do that?
Also, how do you account for differences in network latency?
Your item level, just like your level in any RPG represents a difficulty slider. If you've ever played any single player RPGs, you may be familiar with the concept that if you want more of a challenge, you can try leveling up as little as possible. If you're having a hard time you can grind and level up to make fights easier.
With queued content in Neverwinter, there's a requirement to enter, so that makes things a bit different but the principle is the same. There is some level of mechanical difficulty, but things become easier overall as your stats increase. Attacks harm you less, letting you survive mechanics that may have killed you, or letting your healer maintain their resources for longer. You deal more damage so you transition phases quicker, etc.
There's a level of mechanical difficulty we are targeting at the entry requirement. That's what I am referring to when I say that the coordination and acumen required won't rise. So if you feel pretty comfortable with your skill in existing dungeons, new dungeons won't require significantly more skill when you are at the same item level relative to the entry requirement.
But of course the item level requirement will still rise. So if you find LoMM difficult around the entry requirement, you'll probably find future dungeons about as difficult. If you find LoMM easy +20% item level over the entry requirement, you'll probably find future dungeons easy. Of course, we'll still be building new encounters with new mechanics that should provide interesting new challenges, but we're not going to be raising the actual twitch response time or coordination required to master that type of content.
Thank you to all the groups that have been continuing to run the trial and sending their feedback to Lassor. We've been watching many of your streams! We appreciate your patience with the issues you've discovered, and your persistence in continuing even with those issues.
Here is a heads up on a few adjustments and fixes that will be making it in next week's preview build and the launch build:
Resolved an issue wherein during the all elements subphase of phase 3, Halaster and his simulacrum would sometimes used disintegration wave in such a way that there was no safe spot in the arena.
Resolved an issue wherein when a player who is affected by the magnetic attraction tether was KO'd it would immediately fire, repelling or attracting their partner.
Resolved an issue wherein after using Duumvirate, Halaster's primary threat target would remain frozen in place.
Searing chains no longer persists when one of the chained players is KO'd.
The primary damage of Duumvirate is now unavoidable and has been increased. (The secondary non-split damage cleave that goes much further may still be dodged.)
Resolved an issue wherein if a phase transition was pushed early when creeping ice was active, creeping ice could remain during a disintegration wave creating no way to avoid the wave without walking through the ice.
Resolved an issue wherein under certain circumstances wherein Halaster was meant to cast only a single hypothermia, two hypothermias were cast instead.
@asterdahl u gotta do some class balance changes for barbs, rangers, fighters and clerics dps paths.. they all falling compared to Wizards, and only Rogues are catching to Wizards, but even them are losing... unless u want the new trial to be done by 6 Wizards and 2 healers and 2 tanks.
Warlock is another class that can be useless for ToMM at least as DPS as well, need lots of help. Agree the ToMM META will be 6 wizards if they don't fix the class unbalance.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
And no I don't need to test the rest of the game since you can play the rest of it without a healer anyhow.
You’re arguing that the game should have content that only 0.1% of the players can complete – just to provide you your own little challenge and fantasy that other players are “aspiring” to be like you -- then you’re asserting that because you don’t need a healer in the rest of the game, no one else should either, so… I guess we should just get rid of the class altogether, right?
Sorry, but you’re really going off the deep end here….
only .1% of people are paying to keep the game alive.... So? I would listen to that .1% also.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I attempted the new trial on preview today. It doesn't look like its going to be as hard as I was expecting but will still be hardest content I've seen released. We didn't finish but did get some decent practice in. The group we had was mixed dps classes, 2 tanks, and 2 healers. With more practice, this group is likely able to complete the trial.
Understanding the mechanics and what to do is important but once you do, the trial isn't that hard. The difficulty mostly comes from the sheer length of this trial and there being a longer list of mechanics than usual to remember how to handle. I'd always recommend discord communication for this trial.
The issues we ran into were mostly on our end; communication issues combined with some players getting nervous or distracted. So far, I don't have any complaints about mechanics or bugs and the trial seems well designed.
I do have some mild concerns about dps class/role balance but I'm not as worried as I was when I first heard about these issues.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
And no I don't need to test the rest of the game since you can play the rest of it without a healer anyhow.
You’re arguing that the game should have content that only 0.1% of the players can complete – just to provide you your own little challenge and fantasy that other players are “aspiring” to be like you -- then you’re asserting that because you don’t need a healer in the rest of the game, no one else should either, so… I guess we should just get rid of the class altogether, right?
Sorry, but you’re really going off the deep end here….
only .1% of people are paying to keep the game alive.... So? I would listen to that .1% also.
But those are 2 different populations.
The top 0.1% ultra-BiS that want that challenge don't pay anymore, there experience on te game made them rich enough to have large quantities of Zen/AD without paying a dime for years so your argument doesn't make sense.
Since I really don´t know if this is WAI, a bug or simlpy a bad idea, I will post this also in feedback section.
Essence drain bugs and leads to heavy selfinflicetd damage. Either 30% HP loss at once or 15% HP loss per second ! I recognized you toned down the selfdamage from Warlocks Bargain and fixed Soul Pact on preview month after release leeching 80% max HP, all in silence without any feedback patch node etc., but I hope this TAB mechanic is not WAI ? Otherwise this is one step forwards and two steps back for a class without dodge or Shield like Paladin and the squishiest setup from all healer by far, having no way to burstheal like DC or Paladin with 500mg+1000mag barrier on top
-> this sounds pretty desillusioning.., Paladin can reload Divinity with a 300k barrier on top of his head and block all incoming damage and cc with a classfeature same time or simply HAMSTER an aoe that relaods passivly his Divinitypool no matter what happens and the squishiest class (no dodge no shield) has to use TAB to reload it's sparkpool (actually the lowest pool combinded with the lowest magnitude of all healer, congrats) and by that kill himself slowly in case his target run out of focus or a companion/add blocks your targetting (happens all time) ....maybe on top of standing still inside aoe? I know I could work arround a bit with a feat, but this is a failing design right from the start. Who feels responsible for this idea and who takes care about balance, hands up please?
@schietindebux It's not 5% per second, it's 5% per tick, which is every 0.5sec but probably wai. Warlocks have the fastest resource regeneration, we had successful runs with warlock healers and think that they are viable in ToMM.
In the Screenshot I posted it is 14k every 0.5 second and my HP at that IL was 198k. Near 30k per second wich is about 15%? I still think this concept is controverse. Before mod 16 the class was based on lifesteal, the self damage was from no impact. Now mobility same as lifesteal are gone same as selheal ability is not from much impact looking at ACT. Self-inflicted damage is left, where other classes got insane barrier, shield, dodge or heavy HOT's. You have to measure things not only on a Bis level but also below and if one class can dish out 4 times the burstheal than the other it is simply bad.
Comments
Now, on a more serious note, the main issue I think is that if you only give 1 trial to everyone, everyone thinks that it's given to them. Now, theoretically, tomm is more clear on gatekeeping with the 24k IL requirement and the 30k counterstats (and will fall flat on it's face when released, because the best gear is actually pretty low item level, so people with worse chance to succeed will feel more encouraged to try) and as all content, will be naturally easier to do with the time progressing. Mostly because people who got the Lionheart set for them will lower the necessary DPS for the others.
So, in essence, I agree, tomm does not need to be made easier, because it will get easier. And let's not kid ourselves, players will find ways to make things easier for them (like, the log off).
And btw, I like the (skippable) cutscenes. And the readjusting of codg was a hellish experience, because I had to adjust again for the changed attack, so I fell because I was good for the wrong situation
Just like I did with scaling I'm doing the same with ToMM. I'm here stating the issue is not the content its not the difficulty. It just that the average gamer who plays NWO won't be able to run it and those players will feel slighted by this mod because there isn't much to do unless you want to bore yourself with ME which most players have been doing since mod 16 dropped. That won't hold to many players attention.
I quickly want to touch on scaling; I hate it because its never implemented correctly. I even asked for hard stat caps - including power and HP. This would have made content challenging but not impossible if you don't over gear your character. Content would be challenging do to stats being properly capped and devs didn't need to nerf enemies health. That is all behind us and it is where it is now which is far from perfect but better than the 4/22 release.
Same can be said for CoDG, it is better now for many compared to its original release.
ToMM will be in the same boat eventually; I have feeling things will be adjusted once it goes live, because as is, people will complain and with enough complaints comes a change to content.
I'm waiting to see if the devs will cave in and do a patch on 8/20 or 8/27 that will fix ToMM which will make it easier for more players to complete it.
They really need to do something to bring back all this old content into viability again. I've proposed creating a way to "exalt" older weapons and artifact sets to be of the same ilvl as the current more, this would increase the diversity in builds, and if the reagents to "exalt" the gear/weaps was BoE, would create a whole new market in game. And if each older dungeon dropped unique reagents for gear from that content, then all the old dungeons would be worth running again. Just one idea, but I do think it's a decent one.
As for ToMM, I'll prolly run it to get the weap set and that's it. Another mod of waiting for the next mod and the pvp queues to pop or groups to form. If only the older dungeons were worth running again.... if only there were several choices of weapons that would be BiS based on build and player style....
I made a group of ppl in my Alliance to try and practice the Trial on preview. These players were not the best of the best, not the "elites", just long-time players that have reached endgame. We ran it on 2 days now, each time for about 2 hours. The best we got was 50% hp on the 3rd Phase. It definitly feals doable with this group once we get more practice in and everyone understands the mechanics properly. TomM really isnt incredibly hard. Its just way harder then anything else in the game atm. If ppl are dedicated and dont give up instantly they will be able to complete it.
So pls dont make it any easier! If anything, you could even increase the difficulty abit.
NOTE: I still lament the removal of the old CN
As for IL or gear score ranking for dungeon I know why they exist I'm not new to MMOs or why developers place those on content. Did you not read my post about actually raising the content IL and even making ToMM harder with additional mechanics?
I don't think you get what I'm stating about what I asking and what I would like to actually see for myself vs. what I think the game actually should have. For me ToMM is actually too easy IMO. In fact it needs more mechanics that require the group to work as a team that requires communication to execute. It needs to be harder, have a high IL requirement, more mechanical, and the reward should be just a title and some new unique style. That to me would be worth it.
As for what the game should deliver on to hold the attention of its average player is a normal ToMM and keep the current one but rename it Master ToMM. I know that isn't going to happen. I believe what is on test will more than likely be what will go to the live server. It will be a matter of time before ToMM is adjusted to be EASIER. I'm not saying what will be adjust or how much easier it will become. I'm making an assumption based on Cryptic and other developers pass records of adjusting harder and challenging content after it launch to be a bit easier so that more players can beat the content. Just look at CoDG as an example.
As for your comment about player needing to gear up and keep trying; I'm laughing because I've seen the same type of comment in other games and that still does not stop people asking the devs to adjust content to be easier. Don't forget what may not show up here may show up on FB or Twitter or in game chat.
Just to be clear ToMM should be harder, not easier and the reward for completing it is knowing that can complete it. That is my view.
@asterdahl I recommend waiting on lowering the damage values of attacks until the bug where outgoing healing bonus is removed by permafrost is fixed. It severely skews balance with regards to healing and it results in artificial difficulty that would not exist without the bug. I think that if the bug is fixed, the damage values on heatwave should in fact be increased, not decreased.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
so boring now. economy is shot so no real opportunity to even stand around trading at this point. honestly I'm on to cod for the most part now.
every past mod has had some way of farming some ad from drops. that kept people playing and helped new players buy gear to gear up. this mod doesn't really have that and the only thing that was close was just devalued by the lockbox. and they keep doing sale after sale along with that leg mount insignia pack which seems to have higher drop rates or something. the market is FLOODED on xbox.
and earlier in this thread devs talking about not wanting to devalue things by having them bound to equip because devalue while they devalue things on a much bigger basis than that would ever do.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
With queued content in Neverwinter, there's a requirement to enter, so that makes things a bit different but the principle is the same. There is some level of mechanical difficulty, but things become easier overall as your stats increase. Attacks harm you less, letting you survive mechanics that may have killed you, or letting your healer maintain their resources for longer. You deal more damage so you transition phases quicker, etc.
There's a level of mechanical difficulty we are targeting at the entry requirement. That's what I am referring to when I say that the coordination and acumen required won't rise. So if you feel pretty comfortable with your skill in existing dungeons, new dungeons won't require significantly more skill when you are at the same item level relative to the entry requirement.
But of course the item level requirement will still rise. So if you find LoMM difficult around the entry requirement, you'll probably find future dungeons about as difficult. If you find LoMM easy +20% item level over the entry requirement, you'll probably find future dungeons easy. Of course, we'll still be building new encounters with new mechanics that should provide interesting new challenges, but we're not going to be raising the actual twitch response time or coordination required to master that type of content.
Here is a heads up on a few adjustments and fixes that will be making it in next week's preview build and the launch build:
So? I would listen to that .1% also.
Understanding the mechanics and what to do is important but once you do, the trial isn't that hard. The difficulty mostly comes from the sheer length of this trial and there being a longer list of mechanics than usual to remember how to handle.
I'd always recommend discord communication for this trial.
The issues we ran into were mostly on our end; communication issues combined with some players getting nervous or distracted.
So far, I don't have any complaints about mechanics or bugs and the trial seems well designed.
I do have some mild concerns about dps class/role balance but I'm not as worried as I was when I first heard about these issues.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The top 0.1% ultra-BiS that want that challenge don't pay anymore, there experience on te game made them rich enough to have large quantities of Zen/AD without paying a dime for years so your argument doesn't make sense.
Essence drain bugs and leads to heavy selfinflicetd damage.
Either 30% HP loss at once or 15% HP loss per second !
I recognized you toned down the selfdamage from Warlocks Bargain and fixed Soul Pact on preview month after release leeching 80% max HP, all in silence without any feedback patch node etc., but I hope this TAB mechanic is not WAI ?
Otherwise this is one step forwards and two steps back for a class without dodge or Shield like Paladin and the squishiest setup from all healer by far, having no way to burstheal like DC or Paladin with 500mg+1000mag barrier on top
-> this sounds pretty desillusioning.., Paladin can reload Divinity with a 300k barrier on top of his head and block all incoming damage and cc with a classfeature same time or simply HAMSTER an aoe that relaods passivly his Divinitypool no matter what happens and the squishiest class (no dodge no shield) has to use TAB to reload it's sparkpool (actually the lowest pool combinded with the lowest magnitude of all healer, congrats) and by that kill himself slowly in case his target run out of focus or a companion/add blocks your targetting (happens all time) ....maybe on top of standing still inside aoe? I know I could work arround a bit with a feat, but this is a failing design right from the start.
Who feels responsible for this idea and who takes care about balance, hands up please?
It's not 5% per second, it's 5% per tick, which is every 0.5sec but probably wai.
Warlocks have the fastest resource regeneration, we had successful runs with warlock healers and think that they are viable in ToMM.
I still think this concept is controverse.
Before mod 16 the class was based on lifesteal, the self damage was from no impact. Now mobility same as lifesteal are gone same as selheal ability is not from much impact looking at ACT. Self-inflicted damage is left, where other classes got insane barrier, shield, dodge or heavy HOT's.
You have to measure things not only on a Bis level but also below and if one class can dish out 4 times the burstheal than the other it is simply bad.