I dont think they want feedback. I think these threads are just used by shills and/or butt kissers to say how good the changes are.
For some people, as long as any change affects them negatively, they're upset. All objectivity is lost. Emotion takes over. Just because the rest of us are trying to be reasonable and rational about this doesn't mean you should write everyone else off as butt kissers or shills.
For some people, as long as any change affects them negatively, they're upset. All objectivity is lost. Emotion takes over. Just because the rest of us are trying to be reasonable and rational about this doesn't mean you should write everyone else off as butt kissers or shills.
/sign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moderator edited quote to match quote edited by OP.
FWIW, I've never "stockpiled" salvage. I'm starting to have it stack up *now*, though - toss it in the mailbox and forget about it until the mail is full or I run out of RAD, because there's no point in pulling it out and salvaging it if I can't use the RAD.
i end up stockpiling it just because I forget about it. I put it in the mail to salvage on alts and then forget about it until I run out of mailbox space. it's a massive pia.
True, but I can't help but feel this is a squeeze to get the players to do so.
As in purchase Zen? If so, of course. Putting a cap on AD generation hits players high and slowing the AD generation considerably hits players low. Less AD for players to try and convert to Zen means more inclination to spend money to buy Zen.
Lowering prices for items in the Zen market/WB will encourage purchases of Zen, selling two higher sought Zen market items at a lower price would yield more sales than 1 at a higher price would it not.? The recent reductions are quite decent though the highly sough after items such as in the refinement section were untouched (coalescent wards), even periodic unannounced "flash sales" where players could only buy one CW or set 10 PW's that day would be great.
At this point I think anybody who's denying the fact that this choice isn't for the benefit of the players is in the denial. It's bright clear. They gave us a little candy to cheer about: shared AD bank... Yayyy... 0.2 seconds faster than placing an offer and taking it back with the character that needs the ADs, if your VIP grade isn't high enough for summoning the portable bank. And then they nerfed or means to earn ADs with the excuse of "lowering the total amount of AD in the game" to balance the Zen/AD exchange. Nonsense.
Most likely people will get things with Zen instead of ADs because it's even faster now. Moreover, this doesn't even solve the chore-like daily grinding needed for AD, it's just another kind of daily grinding: no more random queues on each character, but rather one single dungeon ran a lot of times (EToS or Tuern) or tons of HEs to earn Seals of the Brave to buy stuff to salvage in order to reach the 100k cap
heck even 5 min multiple runs of demo gets enough salvage gear to add up quickly plus faerezzes for the double chest in cn. in an hour or so of farming decent dungeons you make a lot more with salvage than you seem to be allowing. I can easily hit over 100k without effort wihtout breaking a sweat.
The players this Mod is supposed to be helping arguably won't be at the point where they can effectively farm salvage, especially newer players. Salvage may be a "good" way for players that have the time, can brute force through it and have access to the players to help make it happen though "most" newer/casual players won't.
It's easy to forget where you came from and describe/suggest what players can do later in the game in regard to generating AD though for those no where near that point it doesn't help them and personally which is in part why the responses are centered around what can be done in about 1-2 hours of play per session and what the majority of players have access to from the start which is RQ's. New players aren't going to be farming salvage anytime soon so suggesting farming salvage does nothing for them in the mean time.
When you have completed lower campaigns and essentially only have the latest content to work on a player can have more time to farm though when you don't play for considerable amounts of time and are working on a campaign(s) AND trying to generate AD the progress of both is significantly reduced and campaign progress is essential to character progress as well as AD...
the players this mod is supposed to be helping is EVERYONE. this isn't aimed at any particular group of people. this is aimed at lessening the amount of ad in the system. however this isnt' going to touch new or casual players. how many of New or casual do you know of iwht more than 2 toons? as far as I can see for actual new ppl or most casuals this is going to be more ad for them. running dungeons with out the bonus still awards salvagable gear. this stacks up quickly. all they have to do is run it on the same toon (which is going to be their best toon) a few more times. also imo I think we're going to see more new players spending their time fixing up ONE or two toons instead of a lot of lowbie alts.. that's a good thing. that means they'll be able to participate in end game content sooner. I have met a lot of newer people (ppl here for about a year) who say they can't get into end game stuff but they're spreading their ad out over a bunch of toons. I do think this will change that inclination and imo it's a good thing.
Add "0.5 * Astral Diamonds" event to the calender now and then.
During the event a merchant named "Burnrad Madoff", dressed in ridiculously wealthy clothes, visits Protectors Enclave. He is accompanied by a huge coffer, same design as the mimic king from Master Spellplague dungeon. He buys rough astral diamonds at 50% value, compared to refining them yourself.
If you still have your main source of AD as rAD then you got nerfed. If you diversified then, like me, you are probably making something in the region of 4 million AD per week plus 700k rAD per week (and making the rAD is pretty easy if you prepared for it).
Moving AD from one account to another through the AH isn't "making" AD. It is simply moving it from Account A to Account B with a transaction fee removed from the game.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,430Arc User
As an aside, if I was in HAMSTER mode then I would point out the following:
1) People paid good money for their alts
What is good money? If one pays full price to get another 48 character slots, it is $60. However, I would expect one would at least used 15% discount coupon. In that case, it would be $51. Furthermore, I would expect most would get them during zen store 40% off, that would be $36. Then, some would buy them during 90% off discount for character slot, that would be $6. Obviously, many did not even pay any real money to get them.
Most uses these to farm rAD from RQ, salvage capacity, AD bonus, invocation, leadership hardly spend any to equip them. From $6 to $60 and that assumes they actually bought 48 character slot, it is hardly "good money".
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
2) the core/major purpose of buying alts for most people was for more rAD refining.
The alts have to make RAD before they can refine them. Most people used them as additional income stream for their main. This takes a toll on people with developed characters who have to carry them. I develop my four alts. Before RQ was introduced, all my alts could solo carry groups of trash alts through eToS. I got so sick and tired of doing it. But I had to so I can make my RAD. Then RQ came and it turned out to be great for me. Although I had little control over the content, most runs had more well-geared players than lowbies. So it was actually easier more refreshing than the 2 x eToS daily grind.
But RQ created a new problem because these trash alts now flooded the leveling queues ruining the game for new players. Something had to be done. In a way, these trash alt abusers have no one to blame but themselves.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
Then don't bring apples into an oranges thread.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
As an aside, if I was in HAMSTER mode then I would point out the following:
1) People paid good money for their alts
What is good money? If one pays full price to get another 48 character slots, it is $60. However, I would expect one would at least used 15% discount coupon. In that case, it would be $51. Furthermore, I would expect most would get them during zen store 40% off, that would be $36. Then, some would buy them during 90% off discount for character slot, that would be $6. Obviously, many did not even pay any real money to get them.
Most uses these to farm rAD from RQ, salvage capacity, AD bonus, invocation, leadership hardly spend any to equip them. From $6 to $60 and that assumes they actually bought 48 character slot, it is hardly "good money".
So your argument here is that Cryptic are indeed thieves but not as bad as I think because the amount of money they stole was less than I thought it was?
Did Cryptic tell you to use 50+ character that way? You choose to deploy them that way. Your 50+ character still exists and can be used. All the character slots and bank slot they provide are still available. You still can play them all although you will choose not to. Buying them is your decision. They work as they advertised. Did they advertise "buy more character slot so that you can earn more rAD"?
You are correct that my number was off. It should be from $12 to $120. In your case, it is more than $120 because you bought packs to get that 6 slots. Since you bought 56 slots before the first 90% off, it means you bought them when leadership AD was available. If you are talking about the amount of rAD, the recent change is nothing comparing with that.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Well, when you want to have a closer look at how well that AD refining limit is working in game, pay the River District a visit, and run a few small heroic encounters, that should open your eyes. I think it's rather fitting, that some players are using that particular area for generating AD, after all Lord Neverember is there for the treasures as well.
And the same goes for the dream, that everyone is suddenly going to have sooo much better geared characters going through RQ's. I tried running the Intermediate Queue with my DC for the first time after Ravenloft was released, and after dying more then enough times i inspected the tank and it showed an item level around 8.8k, which is the sum of the Vistani Rewards on a new character without any campaign boons...
In short, some players will allways find a way around a new restiction, while others will have to pay the price for that behaviour.
And the same goes for the dream, that everyone is suddenly going to have sooo much better geared characters going through RQ's. I tried running the Intermediate Queue with my DC for the first time after Ravenloft was released, and after dying more then enough times i inspected the tank and it showed an item level around 8.8k, which is the sum of the Vistani Rewards on a new character without any campaign boons...
In short, some players will allways find a way around a new restiction, while others will have to pay the price for that behaviour.
Someone running RIQ with an 9k GF in Barovian starter gear is probably running on *his only* character, and has just now reached level 70.
Good news is, you can probably adjust your play around that for a run, AND with the rewards the way they are he won't be 9K for long.
And now at least the queues aren't 50+% bag alts in trash gear hoping to be carried.
And the same goes for the dream, that everyone is suddenly going to have sooo much better geared characters going through RQ's. I tried running the Intermediate Queue with my DC for the first time after Ravenloft was released, and after dying more then enough times i inspected the tank and it showed an item level around 8.8k, which is the sum of the Vistani Rewards on a new character without any campaign boons...
In short, some players will allways find a way around a new restiction, while others will have to pay the price for that behaviour.
Someone running RIQ with an 9k GF in Barovian starter gear is probably running on *his only* character, and has just now reached level 70.
Good news is, you can probably adjust your play around that for a run, AND with the rewards the way they are he won't be 9K for long.
And now at least the queues aren't 50+% bag alts in trash gear hoping to be carried.
No offense, but i'm going to call that wishfull thinking. I mean do you really think, that people that took the time to create 50+ alts are just going stop playing the game as they're used to because a new restriction?
The announcement for this change came early enough, followed by the Jubilee Anniversary Event, then the Vistani Rewards and of course the Ravenloft Treasure Chest. And don't forget the option to throw in a little refer-a-friend link love for the new alt accounts too...
Q: "How can we motivate players to create more accounts?" A: "Let's give them a boat-load of free stuff for doing it!"
No offense, but i'm going to call that wishfull thinking. I mean do you really think, that people that took the time to create 50+ alts are just going stop playing the game as they're used to because a new restriction?
Well, yeah: Playing each alt through the levelling queue is *less profitable* than just playing your main. I really do expect that people who ran many trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD will stop running their trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD.
I doubt anyone who had 50 alts and ran levellings before created 50 new *accounts* to run levellings now, that's just.... dumb. It's a flat waste of time per AD.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,430Arc User
No offense, but i'm going to call that wishfull thinking. I mean do you really think, that people that took the time to create 50+ alts are just going stop playing the game as they're used to because a new restriction?
Well, yeah: Playing each alt through the levelling queue is *less profitable* than just playing your main. I really do expect that people who ran many trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD will stop running their trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD.
I doubt anyone who had 50 alts and ran levellings before created 50 new *accounts* to run levellings now, that's just.... dumb. It's a flat waste of time per AD.
1. Yes, that is just dumb. They should have found a more time cost effective way to make AD (not rAD) by utilizing that 50 characters within one account by now. 2. Even if they really want to create 50 accounts to replace 50 alts, I don't think many people can be that fast to make 50 level 70 characters from scratch. I assume they won't really pay to buy level 70 character from Zen store. So, those characters with Vistani gear appearing in RQ probably were legit players. 2 weeks from now, may be not.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
1) People paid good money for their alts 2) the core/major purpose of buying alts for most people was for more rAD refining.
3) This nerf is in effect Cryptic stealing all the money people have ever paid for alts
If you used your alts for this purpose, you've already benefited immensely from it. You can spin it any way you want, but do you really think the devs intended people to make 50 alts to farm RQ? Even worse, people could choose to do only DL, MotH and IG. DL and MotH takes about 3 mins and IG could take even less if the group just suicides.
Ideally, the devs should have anticipated this and not make that mistake in the first place.
Whatever, this argument is pointless because of what I stated in my original post.
as well as help newer players and those with less playtime earn a bit more AD to help them out.
The above type of players were specifically mentioned...
The cap alone would have reduced the amount of AD/supposedly lower prices though it was taken a big step further which is key with the one off daily bonuses.
Hell if the developers really wanted to help newer playersrevamped all the older campaigns so the daily quests could be repeatable up to a certain amount like JoC+ it could help give casual players more time to do other things rather than log on daily to pickup/complete quests instead of missing out on progress on days not played though that is another story.
as far as I can see for actual new ppl or most casuals this is going to be more ad for them. running dungeons with out the bonus still awards salvagable gear. this stacks up quickly.
How long until those players come across their first piece of salvage? Lvl 20, IG? Let alone be able to even try to farm for it? Lvl 70? Seals to buy salvage gear essentially doesn't start until lvl 70... Newer/casual players are faced with spending more time getting less than before, so again how does the new system help them?
I have met a lot of newer people (ppl here for about a year) who say they can't get into end game stuff but they're spreading their ad out over a bunch of toons.
That is their choice? Spreading one's focus across multiple characters is a conscious decision, especially beyond two and is their own responsibility to prioritize accordingly...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Well, when you want to have a closer look at how well that AD refining limit is working in game, pay the River District a visit, and run a few small heroic encounters, that should open your eyes.
You will also see a number of characters standing off to the side not actively participating though still getting rewarded like the players that actually help clear the encounters though running off to AFK at the next and or simply camping at one...
The refinement cap helped produce/expand another conundrum, AFK farming heroic encounters...
Before lanolin was made available for seals AFK farming in Lonely Wood was ridiculous... you could clearly see the AFK farmers abusing the effort of other players and then selling the lanolin on the AH... In the case of Mod 14 seal farming via heroic encounters will provide abusers with free AD up to 100k daily...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Did Cryptic tell you to use 50+ character that way? You choose to deploy them that way. Your 50+ character still exists and can be used.
This is like someone registering a business / opening an account in a different state or country to get some tax benefit and then, years later, that advantage or loophole is closed. They've benefited greatly already, but they still complain that they wasted money registering the business.
In this case, they might not have spent any real money at all. I could have started a new account and in less than a week, have enough AD to exchange for the zen needed to buy another 2 slots.
The best argument is a thought experiment for people with lots of characters: if you could not have refined more rAD on these characters would you still have purchased so many?
I did. So far, I purchased 35 character slots. I used only 20. 15 unused. With 8 of that 20 stay in level 4. i.e. can't invoke, can't do profession.
I bought them before the existence of loadout. 8 class x 3 path x 2 paragon = 48.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
The best argument is a thought experiment for people with lots of characters: if you could not have refined more rAD on these characters would you still have purchased so many?
But you could refine more and you already did many times. Maybe for someone who bought all those slots just before the patch, but even then...
Character slots, and the benefits from them, are no different in this regard even if some time has passed between purchase and removal of benefit. I did not pay for a temporary ability to refine 24k rAD per character but for a permanent benefit.
Seriously?! The companion was stated as a "Account wide unlock." Here, it's "Each purchase adds two additional slots..." Where does it say "each character is guaranteed to allow you to refine 36k rAD now and forever"? Or "create more characters with your extra slots so that you can make more AD"?
Go ahead, go to a lawyer and ask if Cryptic has broken a contract and you can get a refund or get them to reverse these changes.
No offense, but i'm going to call that wishfull thinking. I mean do you really think, that people that took the time to create 50+ alts are just going stop playing the game as they're used to because a new restriction?
Well, yeah: Playing each alt through the levelling queue is *less profitable* than just playing your main. I really do expect that people who ran many trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD will stop running their trash alts through levelling dungeons for AD.
I doubt anyone who had 50 alts and ran levellings before created 50 new *accounts* to run levellings now, that's just.... dumb. It's a flat waste of time per AD.
Well, why would they create 50 new accounts, when less then half of that will do to generate a similar amount of AD now? Or how hard would it be for them to let several characters on different accounts follow real players through a leveling RQ?
And while events and promotions after announcing the new restriction were aimed at new or returning players, it also helped others to recreate at least a good portion of their alt. armies on alt. accounts as well. I'm even going that far to say, that some players were probably allready using those alt. accounts for getting extra ZEN through ARC quests, which might also explain why they did remove ARC quests from the PC side a few months ago.
Anyway, 2x Seal is starting with the Summer Festival in a day, and may be that will "solve" the problem with alt accounts in RQ leveling dungeon/skirmish runs. Perhaps they'll stick to the SHE trains from that point on forward...
Comments
Moderator edited quote to match quote edited by OP.
the players this mod is supposed to be helping is EVERYONE. this isn't aimed at any particular group of people. this is aimed at lessening the amount of ad in the system. however this isnt' going to touch new or casual players. how many of New or casual do you know of iwht more than 2 toons? as far as I can see for actual new ppl or most casuals this is going to be more ad for them. running dungeons with out the bonus still awards salvagable gear. this stacks up quickly. all they have to do is run it on the same toon (which is going to be their best toon) a few more times. also imo I think we're going to see more new players spending their time fixing up ONE or two toons instead of a lot of lowbie alts.. that's a good thing. that means they'll be able to participate in end game content sooner. I have met a lot of newer people (ppl here for about a year) who say they can't get into end game stuff but they're spreading their ad out over a bunch of toons. I do think this will change that inclination and imo it's a good thing.
During the event a merchant named "Burnrad Madoff", dressed in ridiculously wealthy clothes, visits Protectors Enclave. He is accompanied by a huge coffer, same design as the mimic king from Master Spellplague dungeon. He buys rough astral diamonds at 50% value, compared to refining them yourself.
If one pays full price to get another 48 character slots, it is $60.
However, I would expect one would at least used 15% discount coupon. In that case, it would be $51.
Furthermore, I would expect most would get them during zen store 40% off, that would be $36.
Then, some would buy them during 90% off discount for character slot, that would be $6.
Obviously, many did not even pay any real money to get them.
Most uses these to farm rAD from RQ, salvage capacity, AD bonus, invocation, leadership hardly spend any to equip them.
From $6 to $60 and that assumes they actually bought 48 character slot, it is hardly "good money".
But RQ created a new problem because these trash alts now flooded the leveling queues ruining the game for new players. Something had to be done. In a way, these trash alt abusers have no one to blame but themselves.
You are correct that my number was off. It should be from $12 to $120. In your case, it is more than $120 because you bought packs to get that 6 slots. Since you bought 56 slots before the first 90% off, it means you bought them when leadership AD was available. If you are talking about the amount of rAD, the recent change is nothing comparing with that.
I think it's rather fitting, that some players are using that particular area for generating AD, after all Lord Neverember is there for the treasures as well.
And the same goes for the dream, that everyone is suddenly going to have sooo much better geared characters going through RQ's. I tried running the Intermediate Queue with my DC for the first time after Ravenloft was released, and after dying more then enough times i inspected the tank and it showed an item level around 8.8k, which is the sum of the Vistani Rewards on a new character without any campaign boons...
In short, some players will allways find a way around a new restiction, while others will have to pay the price for that behaviour.
Good news is, you can probably adjust your play around that for a run, AND with the rewards the way they are he won't be 9K for long.
And now at least the queues aren't 50+% bag alts in trash gear hoping to be carried.
The announcement for this change came early enough, followed by the Jubilee Anniversary Event, then the Vistani Rewards and of course the Ravenloft Treasure Chest.
And don't forget the option to throw in a little refer-a-friend link love for the new alt accounts too...
Q: "How can we motivate players to create more accounts?"
A: "Let's give them a boat-load of free stuff for doing it!"
I doubt anyone who had 50 alts and ran levellings before created 50 new *accounts* to run levellings now, that's just.... dumb. It's a flat waste of time per AD.
2. Even if they really want to create 50 accounts to replace 50 alts, I don't think many people can be that fast to make 50 level 70 characters from scratch. I assume they won't really pay to buy level 70 character from Zen store. So, those characters with Vistani gear appearing in RQ probably were legit players. 2 weeks from now, may be not.
Ideally, the devs should have anticipated this and not make that mistake in the first place.
Whatever, this argument is pointless because of what I stated in my original post.
The cap alone would have reduced the amount of AD/supposedly lower prices though it was taken a big step further which is key with the one off daily bonuses.
Hell if the developers really wanted to help newer playersrevamped all the older campaigns so the daily quests could be repeatable up to a certain amount like JoC+ it could help give casual players more time to do other things rather than log on daily to pickup/complete quests instead of missing out on progress on days not played though that is another story. How long until those players come across their first piece of salvage? Lvl 20, IG? Let alone be able to even try to farm for it? Lvl 70? Seals to buy salvage gear essentially doesn't start until lvl 70... Newer/casual players are faced with spending more time getting less than before, so again how does the new system help them? That is their choice? Spreading one's focus across multiple characters is a conscious decision, especially beyond two and is their own responsibility to prioritize accordingly...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
The refinement cap helped produce/expand another conundrum, AFK farming heroic encounters...
Before lanolin was made available for seals AFK farming in Lonely Wood was ridiculous... you could clearly see the AFK farmers abusing the effort of other players and then selling the lanolin on the AH... In the case of Mod 14 seal farming via heroic encounters will provide abusers with free AD up to 100k daily...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
In this case, they might not have spent any real money at all. I could have started a new account and in less than a week, have enough AD to exchange for the zen needed to buy another 2 slots.
Look, we had a good run with the alts (some more than others apparently since you have 56), but we have to be reasonable here.
So far, I purchased 35 character slots.
I used only 20. 15 unused.
With 8 of that 20 stay in level 4. i.e. can't invoke, can't do profession.
I bought them before the existence of loadout. 8 class x 3 path x 2 paragon = 48.
Go ahead, go to a lawyer and ask if Cryptic has broken a contract and you can get a refund or get them to reverse these changes.
Or how hard would it be for them to let several characters on different accounts follow real players through a leveling RQ?
And while events and promotions after announcing the new restriction were aimed at new or returning players, it also helped others to recreate at least a good portion of their alt. armies on alt. accounts as well.
I'm even going that far to say, that some players were probably allready using those alt. accounts for getting extra ZEN through ARC quests, which might also explain why they did remove ARC quests from the PC side a few months ago.
Anyway, 2x Seal is starting with the Summer Festival in a day, and may be that will "solve" the problem with alt accounts in RQ leveling dungeon/skirmish runs. Perhaps they'll stick to the SHE trains from that point on forward...