Feedback: Chultan Lions stun a little too often, a little too long.

lowjohn

Hi,
I find the Lions are my least favourite monsters to face in Chult. The reason is simple: Their roar stun power.

Lions spawn in groups of 3, and immediately when the fight starts, the first thing one will do is roar. The roar is a several second stun that ignores GWF Unstoppable control immunity, pierces GF shield control immunity, and hit through a DC's dodge (the only three classes I've tested with). If you're in the AoE, you're stunned, even if you're immune to control. Oh, and I'm not 100% sure but it *seems* that the stun reduction from a Elven Battle enchantment doesn't affect this stun.

They also use the standard lion/tiger/panther/crag cat attacks - jumping pounces and the like, so they stay very close to you as they move. And as soon as the first one's stun wears off (or before!), the second or the third one will roar, and you're stunned again. You get out of the stun, have time to use a power or two, and the first one will have recharged the power and will roar again.

If you're lucky, you can hit them from range, root them, and kill them quickly, while escaping the roar AoE before it triggers. If you're unlucky, you can find yourself in a stun loop for 10-15 seconds before you get a power off, and then get locked again shortly after.

They don't do a ton of damage, and they're not hard to kill once you can hit them, so you're unlikely to DIE to the lions unless you're low-geared, very unlucky, or you run into them at the same time as a dino ambush encounter. But when you do fall into the loop, it's really annoying, like the perpetual-freezing loop the White Dragonspawn in Well Of Dragons used to have.

Suggestion: Increase the cooldown on the lion roar, or make it obey dodge/control immunity, or make fewer lions use the roar power, or decrease the length of the stun, or some combination of the above?

beckylunatic

Seems to me that they're fairly reasonable for a monster you practically have to go out of your way to fight in the first place, since they hide.

lowjohn

I regularly find them on the Patrol missions, either in places where I can't avoid aggroing them or where I must kill them to finish the "clear the area" part of the quest, or both.

beckylunatic

Ok, I guess I haven't done enough patrols. I did see some bears (spawns alternate bears/lions) on one of the beach missions, but they were extraneous and actually placed after the exit, so you'd only find them by exploring the entire map. I assumed they were mostly placed there for people to get the Oh, My! achievement without peeking into bushes in the jungle.

pitshade

Lions and tigers can spawn behind the Shrine of Ubtao in the Thayan area. They are back past it however and I was able to avoid aggroing them while tending the shrine. Previous times, I had to fight however.

obsiddia

They are a little oddly harsh, given that tigers and bears are easy, and even sabre-tooths
are easier. Didn't expect the roar to cause poison(?) or some other effect. I suppose
the non-squishy classes have no problem. I run into them clearing the Shrine of Ubtao as well.

hirogarde

lowjohn said:

...The roar is a several second stun that ignores GWF Unstoppable control immunity, pierces GF shield control immunity, and hit through a DC's dodge (the only three classes I've tested with)...

Paladin's Sanctuary blocks it. At least I'm pretty sure it does. It may be the zone lag (combined with the lack of signal that it's coming) causing some of those stuns.

lowjohn said:

Suggestion: Increase the cooldown on the lion roar, or make it obey dodge/control immunity, or make fewer lions use the roar power, or decrease the length of the stun, or some combination of the above?

The problem here is the same as the rest of the zone. Any ONE mob in a group with a debilitating CC effect is troublesome, but not dangerous. The danger starts when two or more can debilitate.

I'd suggest changing the Lioness's power to a stackable mob buff (or player debuff) and keep the Lion's roar as a stun, then just flag the group to have a max of one Lion. That would make the encounter nearly as tricky, but much less annoying.

beckylunatic

hirogarde said:

The problem here is the same as the rest of the zone. Any ONE mob in a group with a debilitating CC effect is troublesome, but not dangerous. The danger starts when two or more can debilitate.

It's not exactly new to Chult. Players complained about it a lot with RD as well, since multiple mobs in a pack there can have prones, stuns, or even just the good old interrupting Nasher brute kick.

But you can run into the same issue with two yetis alternating their stuns and prones, or groups of fire/cloud/frost giants, and probably other places I'm forgetting where beefy controllers spawn in pairs or even more.

hirogarde

beckylunatic said:

It's not exactly new to Chult. Players complained about it a lot with RD as well, since multiple mobs in a pack there can have prones, stuns, or even just the good old interrupting Nasher brute kick.

Yeah, I've noticed it becoming more prominent with the newer mods. What makes it more noticable in Chult is the mobs are frequently more than five in a group, making our AoE/CC not able to hit them all. Stack on top of that the tighter density, and those Push/Knockbacks bring another six into the fray (with the associated 2-3 stunners).

All in all, once one figures out which mobs do what it's not as difficult as it first seems. Part (I think) of the real issue is that the mobs (it seems) only have "Encounters," and they use them as soon as the timer refreshes - rather than at a semi-random interval. If you want some entertainment, pull a group of three trolls (making sure they all agro at the same time) and watch them all run the same powers at the same time like a troll line-dance.

As to the original post/problem: If those Lions ONLY have a Stun and a Pounce, it should be looked at.

lowjohn

beckylunatic said:

But you can run into the same issue with two yetis alternating their stuns and prones, or groups of fire/cloud/frost giants, and probably other places I'm forgetting where beefy controllers spawn in pairs or even more.

But at least in most of those cases, you can block/dodge/power out of the effect, and there's a red splat and a warning, and they don't normally last as long.

greywynd

I dealt with a pack of 3 yesterday doing a jungle patrol. Male roared, I got raked. Got unstunned and was immediately hit by the roar of one of the females. The roars seemed to coincide with the stun wearing off.

lowjohn

From Today's patch notes:
"Terrifying Roar," used by tyrannosaurid type enemies, now properly respects control immunities and resistances.

The lions use the same vfx as the allosaur-and-up dinos and their roar does the same thing. Maybe my issue is addressed? I'll definitely have to check this when the server comes back up.