Trickster Rogue Class Balance Suggestions

ug2bk

ravenskya said:

Why shouldn't a ranged TR be as deadly as an HR?

Exactly.

Every single time i play HR (melee stance preferable) there's always deja vu feeling about my WK. Annoying feeling, because each time i can't shake thought that hr does exactly the same better.
Check rapid strike cast speed, then sly flourish. Check speed provided by fox shift and feel yourself turtle. Try fought non 2' distance... you got the idea, i think.
Hr can fought both melee/ranged - try to play WK ranged and you'll screwed.
Yes, i'm green with envy. Sorry.

At a current state of TR - DF is a key to everything in pve. No matter what - you want it to hit as hard as possible. DS just a trigger for SoD and CA, SB - some room to breathe, 3rd one most probably another SoD trigger.
Now we go ranged.
CoS/DhS provide far less damage than DF . Impact/blitz/PoB - either awful cast time or you're more far from target. So - you can try encounters once more - and that gives you nothing - or fire another ranged at-will. Either way is worse than just spam DF. (x3 damage for CoS and DhS could help, 50% effective for pvp)

Dagger threat is lame, 'cause within 20' range you'd rather choose DF (DF + jump, distance allows as i recall) than throw daggers. The only limit i'd like to see for that - off-hand feature you do up to 10% more damage to target if you're far than 20', max at 60'.

Charges for CoS? I like the way things were before m5 myself, but not that one. No other at-will has charges. There should be a serious reason for that - smth like you do 6.25% more damage to target for every CoS charge for 10 sec to a max of 50% (8 charges). Or Cloud of steel damage has been increased on 500%. Nothing like that has been mentioned - so, no charges for CoS please.

Best idea for stealth rework, imo, +50% crit. sev. 100% crit chance shall be removed. Normally, if you'd pick dps class, you want more power and crit. But - if you pick TR, then you'll always feel that every point in crit chance is a dead weight. Also, power+recovery or just recovery-to-top sabo-builds causes non-stop ITC, dailies spam and so on.
+50% crit sev. on other hand would be a chance to use smth except vorpal/dread, i believe.

Battlewise - yes, the worst feat ever. 20/40/60% could be at least noticable.
Though i'd like smth like 1/2/3% chance to get x2 reward from chest. - or - 1/2/3% chance to succesful upgrade. Any way is better than now + i was always curious about rogue's ability to lockpick/steal something in NWO.

DF... Definitely that one could be better. Still - there's plenty of everything in it already and i really don't want it to lose smth from current state. Though - I'd like somewhere in Skullcracker - Duelist's flurry now activates 30 (50?..) % faster.
Other thing for Skullcracker + to current - Every time you deflect attack, you gain 10% of stealth/+5% to stealth recharge speed. (once/sec, 0 effect from DoT).
+ Scoundrel is a controller path. Not "tank" - we can't aggro a thing and not designed to absorb damage. Not "buff/debuff" - we'd never be HRs or DCs, nor OPs of GFs - if our role is "boss-killer" - so be it and give us way to do so.

One more thing - if rework is going to happen, i wouldn't be happy to see "+ damage here and + damage there" all other the place - it's dull. (though +30% for encounters could help).
What i'd really like to see - something like:
When you land a critical hit/attack from stealth, enemy lose 5 STR (pvp, no stacks)/7% damage for 10 sec.
When you'd take damage more than 99% of total HP, there's 3/6/9/12/15% (or straight 15% for capstone) chance to avoid 50% (100%?) of damage. Once 15(20? 30?) sec.
+ pre-m5 feats o'course.


P.s. sorry for a bit of a hash - i just hope someone would be able to improve any raw proposal.

trgluestickz

mafiadelperro#8853 said:

Stealth:You move undetected for a short time. You have Combat Advantage, gain up to 100% Critical Chance,10% deflect chance, 25% crit severity and deflect severity also at will do not drain stealth and your encounter powers gain new effects. I like

I agree that stealth should be un-nerfed and at wills should not drain stealth.

However, we do not need more deflect severity or chance while in stealth, its completly redundant.
In pve, many creatures can't see you when you are stealthed and won't even attack, why do you need a defensive bonus when you aren't even getting hit?
You don't need it while stealthed in pvp either, stealth already makes it difficult for anyone to hit you in the first place while its active.
Even if it worked outside of stealth, more deflect severity is still not a good idea, we can get very high deflect severity using a shadowclad and pots + our base 75%, we do not need more.

The wording on "you gain up to 100% critical chance" is conserning. By "up to" it sounds like you mean whether or not you actually crit in stealth is no longer guarteed and is a chance instead.

The 25% critical severity is good but it should be higher. I think the sugestion from the main post would acomplish your sugestion better though your sugestion is not bad. Here was the main post version:
"This suggestion originally outlined in this post by @hoperuby, offered an interesting solution. In short, it suggests taking the extra percentage in stealth over 100%, and add that to the critical severity percentage. So a player with 70% crit would receive 70% crit severity when they enter stealth. A more simple solution would be to simply add 50% crit severity while using stealth. This also allows a nice scaling as it will help lower leveled and lower geared TRs much more than BIS TRs."

trgluestickz

rustlord said:

WK was advertised to be ranged damage dealer, but when you see its passives like Dagger Threat, deals more damage closer to target.. everything unravels. This is the complete opposite of what this path stands for. I get that it shouldn't be as deadly as a CW or HR, but if range is its element why do I have to be "within 20ft" of my target?

In that sense, if devs would just revise how ranged powers work for WK it could fill in a gap in some boss fights where MI leaves a lot to be desired, bosses that move a lot and such.

I agree that dagger threat should not require you to be within 20ft of your target for your ranged attacks to do more damage. It defeats the entire point of being ranged to have to stand in melee range to get the benifits.

I disagree that whisperknife should not be as deadly as an HR or CW, that would imply that a WK is weaker than CWs and HRs on damage despite it being a striker and would be about just as viable as it is right now.

Edit: I find it odd you would sugest that WK should be less deadly than HR and CW and am wondering if this might be a miswording on your part and not quite what you meant. By any chance, did you mean WK's ranged capabilities should not be as good as HR or CW? This on some level would make sense considering WK is not currently built to be long ranged. WKs are built to be mid-ranged whereas CWs and HRs are more long ranged.
I'm thinking WK should remain mostly mid-ranged post rework. Dagger threat as just one example could be made to have a much bigger range than it currently does but still be mid-ranged. I'm thinking the part where you have to be within 20 feet of your target should be changed to be 60 feet, maybe more.

trgluestickz

Something else just occured to me, some monsters can see you in stealth. The devs should undo this as part of the TR rework since it would help with TR PVE survivability.

trgluestickz

demonmonger said:

I can't stress how important it is for TR to have combat advantage on players that are dazed proned and stunned. Also attacks from behind should grant combat advantage to TR at all times.
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I agree, right now only dazing strike provides combat advantage but our other CCs do not.

Attacking someone from behind granting CA could be implemented for CA in general instead of only making it so TRs can do this. It would make sense to do it like this.

trgluestickz

rayrdan said:

i think there is only a way to fix the class all around:
- rework scountrel tree to be either a tank, a controller or a damage dealer.
- rework some execution feats to be more reliable (less: "when an emeny die you gain")
- stealth should recharge like unstopable(upon damage received and damage dealt)
- increase weapon damage
- introduce a new class bonu (like roots for hr to name one): every encounter you use deal 10% of enemy HP as piercing damage up to a cap of ()% of your maximum hp (damage is affected by your damage bonus)
- rework shoicking (way higher damage, totally resistible)
- rework courage breaker (more damage, higher damage debuff on enemy, enemy shall be able to free himself from the slow part)
- generally reduce by a ton our cooldowns
- increase our encounter base damage: lashing balde, impact shot, dazing strike to name few.
- rework duelist flurry to be more deadly.
- rework stealth: it should not grant 100% crit chance but 100% damage bonus.
- bring down deflect severity to 50%

and every one pvp/pve would be happy.
general aoe damage would be better, general single target damage would be better, general pvp performances would be more skill base while still giving the fair chance to kill your enemy after 10 rotations considering lifesteal and procs

The way you worded your scoundrel suggestion makes it look like you are talking about our general role classifacation, which is not determined by feats, its determined by class. TR has a general classification of primary role striker and secondary role controller.
I'm guessing you really meant the 3 things the scoundrel feat tree is oriented towards, cc, tankyness, and damage. The scoundrel does not need to be reworked to be only one out of the three options you presented, they mostly just need more damage. They don't need their defenses and control taken away or reduced to accommodate for this damage.

I agree that any executioner feats that state things like "when an enemy dies you gain x" need to be reworked.

Stealth's recharge doesn't need to be changed to be more like unstoppable. This does not improve stealth from how it is now and may actually make it worse.

Piercing damage for all encounters doesn't help much in pve but in pvp, it would be powerful. This idea is something to consider but there have been other suggestions made to our existing sources of piercing damage that may be easier to keep in check.

Your idea for SE is an option though its not the only way. There have been other good sugestions made to address SE that would allow it to keep its piercing damage, reduce the one shotting potential in pvp, and allow it to be buffed in pve. Here are some of the ideas that have been proposed as SE fixes:
One idea is to make it so a lot of the buffs that make SE too strong in pvp do not apply to SE anymore.
Another idea is to make it so SE cannot hit for more than 90% of a target's max hp. This would allow SE to be safely damage buffed to improve it in pve.
Making tenacity apply to piercing damage has also been proposed as a pvp fix.
Making SE's pvp effects different from its pve effects would also allow SE to be buffed for pve without negatively impacting pvp.

Making it so the slow effect for courage breaker ends before the rest of the power does would be a much better fix than making the slow something people can get out of. Another option is to make CB shorter in pvp than it is in pve.

Only some of our cooldowns need to be reduced. Lashing blade's cooldown as one example is too long and needs to be reduced for both pvp and pve. Cooldowns for control powers on the other hand shouldn't be reduced in pvp but are safe to reduce in pve.

I agree that TRs do need more damage. Your suggestions for encounters and weapon damage are something to consider. It wouldn't address at will damage and some of our at wills do need damage improvements so I suggest including at wills if a broad base damage increase like this was implemented. So far, most of the ideas in this thread have focused on improving TR damage on a more case by case basis for individual powers and feats instead of a broad base damage increase.

DF does need some improvements made to it, +1 there.

100% damage bonus when you enter stealth is definitely too much and would be op as hell.

I disagree on your suggestion for our 75% deflect severity, it does not need a nerf. Too much deflect in pvp and immortal players is not just a TR problem and putting TRs back down to 50% deflect severity would nerf us without actually fixing the problem. A possible way to fix deflect problems in pvp is to install a cap on deflection chance across all classes. For a TR, we should be capped at either 70% or 75% chance to deflect. A second step that would help with deflection problems among other stat issues would be to make it so non pvp pots no longer work in pvp, the pvp community has been talking about this a lot lately.

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blur

@defiantone99 Its still lower than what some other classes have, CW and HR, dont know about others.
We want higher efficiency and a small damage boost. Our Stealth suggestion with overflow crit % turned into severity % is a really good option which solves the useless crit overflow and makes it into small buff while in Stealth. This alone is far from enough on damage boost part which TR needs. Numbers might confuse people and it may look a lot but its barely noticeable.

On the yesterdays stream the Cryptic staff dodged the question about TR rework from what i was able to hear and said something like, instead of taking each class and reworking it we are doing something else now...
I seriously doubt they play and test TR properly. Nothing they do in general can fix TR until they fix TR itself because it simply has too many issues and doesnt scale well at all.
Original suggestions presented many issues and all these comment pages increase the number of issues TR has which werent included. No one expects it all to be fixed but major issues need to be addressed.

mafiadelperro

On the yesterdays stream the Cryptic staff dodged the question about TR rework from what i was able to hear and said something like, instead of taking each class and reworking it we are doing something else now...
> I seriously doubt they play and test TR properly. Nothing they do in general can fix TR until they fix TR itself because it simply has too many issues and doesnt scale well at all
Yeah prolly they will fix some stuff and nerf others like our beloved encounter the smoke bomb but hope they actually fix the more importants and do something with stealth mechanic

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silktrocity

Day 1 TR here. Here are a few little things I'd really like to see added/changed to help balance our class without going overboard.

1. I'd really like to see our stealth regeneration stop being penalized when taking damage and instead have a more consistent regeneration even if the speed itself has to be lowered to balance this out. The introduction of the riverfront zone and the numerous AoE spamming enemies has really brought this ongoing issue out of the darkness and into the light. I do not think any other class mechanic is hampered in such a way and ours should be no different.

2. I would like to see Lashing Blade cool down decreased by 1 second so that it brings the cooldown more in line with other ton's hard hitting encounters. That along with making the power require a target to be used so that we no longer accidentally miss enemies. Other classes have this functionality when there is no cone that increases the range of a melee encounter. So why doesn't ours? I'd argue the same for the GWF's IB if it's any consolation.

3. I would like to see an AoE at-will introduced since we are the only class in the entire game without one. The details on this will be difficult to figure out but I find it necessary that we eventually get one. I had been toying with the idea of having something very similar to blade flurry in animation and practice but with lowered damage per hit.

4. A change to how SoD works. As it is now we very rarely are allowed to take full advantage of our capstone because mobs most likely die before the 6 seconds to proc. There are 2 ways we could go. The first is keep the mechanic working as it already is and adjust the timing. Id like to see the bonus piercing damage be calculated every 2 seconds 3 times before it ends Or possibly ever 1 second. Our second option is to simplify the capstone so it provides a flat damage bonus. If something like this were to occur then we could come up with times vs damage bonus until we find one that is balanced. For example: SoD could offer a 10% flat damage bonus for 10 seconds with a cool down of 5 seconds, or It could offer a 20% damage bonus for 5 seconds with a 15 second cool down. Either way I feel that it is necessary that something is changed with this.

5. Enemy NPC's should not be able to see us while we are in stealth. It should be an added utility that helps with our survival and aids in helping our fellow dungeon dwellers in group content.

Final thoughts: Our class is in a fantastic place if you are knowledgeable and skillful. It has one of the highest learning curves in the game and I wouldn't have it any other way. However it is definetly a class that is more punishing to play for newer players and adjustments should be made to help alleviate some of their ails.

blur

@silktrocity
1. Many have suggested this but i am not sure how fair it would be to have that in PvP. I am not a PvP player but it seems unfair. In PvE it can be implemented.
2. Yes, already mentioned. It should be lowered by more than 1 sec tho.
3. I have suggested this as well some time ago in form of making Sly Flourish aoe, maybe would be too strong so some limitations would have to be added. Either a small radius or halved damage when hitting multiple targets. Today i made Sabo build for AOE combat and cd reduction feats do a great job and encounters get ready in time so at-will aoe isnt needed here but for Exe it could be useful.
4. Have your read our original suggestions? Basicaly the same, except your numbers are too low in 2nd option and cd is not needed.
5. Yep.

Thanks for suggestions.

lordseth1985

This is something that I thought with myself: Why not make mi and wk just like op oaths or cw paragons? I mean, why not give wk some increased radius and damage on ranged at wills and encounters, while making mi more lethal in close combat?

archangelzorak01

@silktrocity
1. We already have a tool to remove stealth loss from incoming damage, its part of the SoD package. That being said I wouldn't mind seeing that aspect put somewhere where any spec can utilize it. A heroic feat perhaps? The removal of stealth loss from incoming damage being taken away from SoD would require something else b added. I think adding a removal of stealth loss from 'outgoing' damage would work well. As you said, and I also touched on in an earlier post, Stealth - when compared to other class tab-powers - is vastly under-performing.

2. I feel the cool-down on Lashing would be justified if it actually hit hard. I've done many tests on dummies and such to figure things out and I have a pretty good idea how much dmg a well executed Lashing can do, in my case 500-750k on average. The problem arises when in a group with all those extra buffs my Lashing's rarely break 1.5mil (more often than not doing less than 1mil for some reason), while other classes seem to get single target hits for 3-5 times more than Lashing. Occasionally Lashing will hit for more, 2-3mil; but it still falls short compared to other classes single target nukes. I've gone on record many times saying that something feels 'wrong' with Lashing, that the damage it does just falls completely flat. Especially when you consider that long cool-down and the high base damage.

3. I always came to the conclusion that the logical reason why TR didn't have an AOE at-will was because they were designed to be a single target focused class. A boss-killer. Most signs point to this except the fact that most of the other classes equal or out-perform TR in single target DPS while being much more efficient in AOE's as well. I see no reason to try to re-focus TR's into being a jack of all trades, I would much rather see TR have a significant advantage in single target DPS while being less effective in AOE DPS.

4. Any change to how SoD works can't have a cool-down built into it. With the correct rotation under ideal circumstances it is possible to maintain 90-100% uptime on SoD. Anything that adds a cool-down would result in a net-loss. I think removing the trigger would simplify everything. Rather than a debuff being applied then 50% of dmg done over 6 seconds being applied at the end one could simply turn it into a buff. When you deal damage from stealth, for the next 6 seconds you deal an extra 50% of damage dealt as piercing damage. This should in theory equal the same amount of damage we can currently get under ideal circumstances but is less punishing in practice. It would take away from the 'feel' of SoD, which I actually like, but would make it more viable in the current state of the game.

5. Indeed sir, indeed.

archangelzorak01

Opinions concerning Class passive powers:

Sneak Attack - Stealth lasts for such a short period of time in PVE content this passive is never used. Its just a filler, not a real choice.

First Strike - Used most often in PVP or when doing dailies off by ones'self. Only group content where this passive has any real usefullness is PoM or maybe Demo.

Tenacious Concealment - Rank 4 of this passive does not work. Even if it did the stealth loss reduction from SoD is superior and I feel this passive needs more to be useful.

Tactics - One would think that considering the TR's reliance on Daily Powers to self-buff and deal damage that this passive would become extremely useful. I've tried playing with this passive and hardly notice the difference in AP gains.

Infiltrator's Action - The CA granted by this passive is decent, but in a group setting where we have CA 90% of the time from our group members it starts to fall short, where it shines is when combined with the off-hand artifact power.

Skillful Infiltrator - This passive has potential, to a point. Most TR's will use this passive until reaching close to BiS levels, at which time Inf. Action becomes superior.

Invisible Infiltrator - Arguably the strongest passive power available to TR's, one of the reasons why MI outperforms WK. Everything about this passive is spot-on except the duration, it could use a bump.

Talisman of Shadows - Ya ya, I know. 'Trickster' rogue.. blah blah blah. stuns, dazes, slows, etc. I am not a fan of this particular passive, maybe it has usefullness in PVP? I really couldn't say. From a PVE perspective, considering all the other tools we have at our disposal if we want to daze an enemy, there are much better options and this passive goes in the bin.

Oppressive Darkness - I don't know who designed this passive, but shame on them. An extra 700 damage? Really? Is it even that much? Its been awhile since I've tested this passive but booooy oh boy was I not impressed. I think it comes out to less than 1.5% overall damage. In order for this passive to become even remotely useful it needs to have its piercing damage done based on current power and scale dynamically with buffs/debuffs.

Dagger Threat - not informed enough to have an opinion
Razor Action - see above
Advantageous Position - what he said



Opinions concerning Artifact Off-hand Powers:

Sneak Attack - 5% extra move speed in and out of stealth. So So, but no one uses this passive so whatevs.

First Strike - 10% extra crit chance and crit sev for the 1st hit in combat. Not bad, would be worth swapping to for when this passive is slotted. Is it worth the cost to swap though? Most likely not.

Tenacious Concealment: 10% additional stealth loss reduction from damage taken. Firstly, as stated, rank 4 of this passive does not work, also SoD does it better. Just another never-used off-hand power.

Tactics: Increased dmg done by daily powers by 5%. Nope, nope, nope. This displays a fundamental disconnect between the people who play the game and the people who make the game. TR's DO NOT use their daily powers to deal damage, sure some of them do deal damage, but any TR worth their salt knows that its the BUFFS we get when we use our dailies that make them worth using, not the damage. The only exception to this would be SE, which is only applicable in PVP as SE does pitiful damage in PVE content.

Dagger Threat: increases ranged attack dmg by 5% when more than 20ft. from the target. If we did respectable damage from range this would probly be good.

Razor Action: Increases the dmg dealt by Razor Action by 25%. I am not informed enough to make any comment concerning this passive.

Advantageous Position: Reduces dmg taken from melee attacks as well. see above. (seems kinda dumpy though)

Infiltrator's Action: Increases dmg dealt by 5% for the duration. Considering the duration of Inf. Action is one of the longest buffs we have as TR's this seems pretty solid. 5% is by no means 'amazing' but its better than nothing. Thats the problem, many of us choose this passive and its off-hand power because its 'better than nothing'. Thats what so many of the other passives and their off-hand power counterparts are... nothing. So we're delegated to choosing the best bad option? I feel like ya'll can do better than that.

Skillful Infiltrator: Increases resistance to slow and immobilize by 50%. I guess? I mean sure its nice, but it really doesn't benefit us much. At least it makes sense so kudos for that.

Invisible Infiltrator: Grants CC immunity for 3 seconds after using a daily power. Pretty solid choice in pvp I would think, doesn't help PVE though.

Oppressive Darkness: Now also slows the target by 50% for a short time. Considering the pathetic amount of damage that OD deals no one uses this, ever. Even if OD were to be buffed I feel like this off-hand power would actually be a detriment in PVE content. Most of the time it is beneficial to group enemies up and AOE them down, if they are slowed they wouldn't reach the killing grounds as quickly as one would like, and anything that we might want to slow is almost certainly CC immune.*

Talisman of Shadows: Heals the rogue for a small amount for every target hit by the daze when entering stealth. I see no problem here, I mean... I'll almost certainly never use ToS so why spend time thinking about changing something that 99% of people will never use.


Keep in mind these are my opinions concerning these passive powers and artifact off-hand powers. I've come to these conclusion through testing, trial and error as well as conversations with other TR's. If you agree or disagree feel free to comment on why and where. Also if I'm digging too deep into critiquing the class let me know. I feel that as I continue to put down my thoughts on every aspect of the class I may be taking away from the core of what this thread is attempting to accomplish. If that is the case just give me a good slap and I'll stfu.


* Concerning CC immune mobs. Mobs fall into 2 categories in Neverwinter. Ones that die too quickly to ever require CC, and mobs that are immune to CC. You see the problem here right? I'll let you noodle that one for a bit.

blur

@archangelzorak01 Keep it coming man. Detailed explanation like this is needed to help people understand how useless most of TR abilities are and that there is no really a choice, which is the reason why most of the PvE TR's use the same things.

"This displays a fundamental disconnect between the people who play the game and the people who make the game."
"...choosing the best bad option?"

Well, you nailed it.

rustlord

ravenskya said:

rustlord said:

WK was advertised to be ranged damage dealer, but when you see its passives like Dagger Threat, deals more damage closer to target.. everything unravels. This is the complete opposite of what this path stands for. I get that it shouldn't be as deadly as a CW or HR, but if range is its element why do I have to be "within 20ft" of my target?

In that sense, if devs would just revise how ranged powers work for WK it could fill in a gap in some boss fights where MI leaves a lot to be desired, bosses that move a lot and such.

Why shouldn't a ranged TR be as deadly as an HR?

Only trying to be conservative in my suggestions, I'm totally open to the idea.

rustlord

Hey @trgluestickz! Yep, you got me here. It's not that I'm not advocating for it, just trying to be subtle I guess. It is in fact partly about being mid-ranged too. I had a lot of fun running with/and fighting against JEN -- she's pretty beast for a CW and melts every TR I know. For a WK without ITC I've held my ground quite well against CW but if I were to have as much damage as they can dish out I'd have a field day out of the rest of them.

Mainly, stealth is still a great tactical edge in PvP regardless of its flaws in PvE.

trgluestickz said:

I disagree that whisperknife should not be as deadly as an HR or CW, that would imply that a WK is weaker than CWs and HRs on damage despite it being a striker and would be about just as viable as it is right now.

Edit: I find it odd you would sugest that WK should be less deadly than HR and CW and am wondering if this might be a miswording on your part and not quite what you meant. By any chance, did you mean WK's ranged capabilities should not be as good as HR or CW? This on some level would make sense considering WK is not currently built to be long ranged. WKs are built to be mid-ranged whereas CWs and HRs are more long ranged.
I'm thinking WK should remain mostly mid-ranged post rework. Dagger threat as just one example could be made to have a much bigger range than it currently does but still be mid-ranged. I'm thinking the part where you have to be within 20 feet of your target should be changed to be 60 feet, maybe more.

Here's what I'd like to see for WK passives (But maybe for just the sake of saying them, no idea if we're ever getting a rework this thorough)

Dagger Threat: Your ranged at will and encounter powers deal 50% more damage and your melee powers deal X % less.

-- from my experience this is the boost needed to make WK a viable ranged dps, but I want this to be justified elsewhere by making it strictly ranged. I shouldn't bleed you for half of your HP and come in with a (post-buff) Lashing Blade

Razor Action Your ranged daily powers deal 50% of its damage as Bleed damage over 5 seconds.

-- strongest WK passive only because its bugged. this power IS NOT supposed to be piercing and it multiprocs like hell at its present state

Advantageous Position: For X seconds after leaving stealth you maintain combat advantage and have increased deflect chance

-- DR is meaningless for TR seeing we don't build for it, and everyone in PvP has that much arpen anyhow. DR is worse in PvE because you get one shot anyway. Make this 20% increased deflect chance instead. In some ways it will make up for the lack of ITC

archangelzorak01

TR Encounter Powers

Dazing Strike - Single target, medium damage, short term daze. From stealth converts to a frontal cone AOE. Dazing is pretty solid encounter power all around, short cooldown and decent damage. I will rarely use this when I can’t use it from stealth however. I’m mostly happy with Dazing, the damage is solid the cast time/animation is nice and fast and the aoe function from stealth can provide a nice chunk of hurt to a few enemies, combined with the daze it's a great way to interrupt casters or just stop incoming damage before it can ruin your evening. All in all I have no complaints here.

Deft Strike - Teleport behind the target, medium damage, short term slow. From stealth increased range and allows teleportation to friendlies. I only use this ability to teleport to friendlies when they’ve climbed to places I want to get to. I don't think I’ve ever used it combat. The teleport function isn’t as useful as it sounds and in some cases can get you killed. There are other single target abilities that do more damage and those are always chosen over Deft Strike. This ability never made much sense to me, you just teleported to melee range with a target… and slowed them. Would it not make more sense to have an ability that strikes from melee range, teleports you away while applying a slow? I mean, if you want to slow them it means you want to get away, or kite or… something? Like I said before, this ability is used to troll people who think they’re cool cuz they climbed on top of a fountain, or mighty leaped onto a roof.

Lashing Blade - Single target, heavy damage. From stealth hits with 50% additional crit sev. This is supposed to be the go-to ability to have slotted during single-target encounters. It is our hardest hitting ability but only feels worth using under ideal circumstances (max possible buffs) and even then usually feels weak. I believe much of LB’s failings are tied to the ‘from stealth’ function. A TR will usually have around 90-95% base CritSev, from stealth that increases to 110% plus vorpal is 160% plus consumables is 175%. I’ll use that as a base, so add the 50% from Lashing stealth bonus and your LB’s from stealth are hitting with 225% critical severity. Sounds good right? Well Crit Sev starts suffering from diminishing returns around the 160% mark, so as the stat increases the return per point decreases. So at BiS and near Bis levels that 50% from using LB from stealth becomes less and less effective. I’d personally like to see if changed back to something similar to what it used to be, which was ‘deals 300% damage when used from stealth’. It doesn't have to be 300% (cuz that was probly a bit too much) but it could be 200% or 250%, test a few iterations and see what performs well without being too OP. I’m pretty sure this change was initially put in for PVP reasons. Find a healthy balance, change the ability to deal less damage to players if you have to, but make Lashing hit like the truck it was designed to be.

Bait and Switch - Creates a decoy drawing enemy attention generating AP based on damage the decoy takes. From stealth refills stealth bar. Enemies don’t seem to care about the decoy and even if they did I have a feeling it would die incredibly fast. So any AP gain attributed to it would most likely be minimal at best. We’d almost certainly gain more AP simply by dealing damage with a different encounter power. I really don’t see the usefulness for this, what I consider ‘real’ content is group content; dungeons, trials, etc. So why in gods name would be we use this when we have a real tank in the group? Don’t say ‘solo content’ cuz I’ll just slap you, no one needs this garbage for solo content.

Blitz - Frontal cone aoe, decent range, medium damage. From stealth adds a slow effect to targets hit. This ability could be useful if it wasn't for the damned jump-back in the animation. That animation, which glitches half the time causing you to rubberband and sometimes not even deal damage, is a complete deal breaker. Blitz needs more ‘something’ to feel on-par with other abilities. It can actually do some pretty respectable damage. I think an adjustment to the animation would do the trick, just get rid of that silly ‘jump-back’ nonsense and see how it feels. I mean hell, you gave GWF’s a carbon copy of Blitz with Hidden Daggers but they get a 40% buff to damage output. 40%!!! Who came up with that? That’s stronger than a TR’s buff from a Daily Power! And Hidden Daggers had 3 bloody charges! That’s easily 100% uptime on a 40% dmg buff, we get 30% from Lurker’s and that tied to AP gain. *deep breaths*.. Ok, I’m fine.. Everythings fine.

Impossible to Catch - Breaks CC, grants CC immunity and 100% deflect chance for duration. From stealth reduces damage taken by 50% for duration. ItC is a godsend, especially when you consider the fact that (as MI anyway) we are a super-squishy melee class. Without ItC we would die 10x more often. ItC is good, don’t touch it again!

Path of the Blade - large area AOE dealing small amounts of damage, from stealth 50% reduction in duration, 100% increase in damage tick speed. PotB could be a respectable aoe damage source for trash mobs, but its damage is a little too low and its inability to proc weapon enchants really kills its usefulness. I know that using a low cool-down Sabo spec you can stack 2 or even 3 PotB’s at once, but even then the damage output and no weapon enchant proc’s takes it off the table. (also the animation is annoying) So PotB, first I would speed up that animation (cuz its obnoxious) and give the damage the ability to proc weapon enchants. See how it performs. If it still feels a bit weak then up the damage co-efficient until it feels right.

Impact Shot - medium range attack, 3 charges, has small push-back, deals increased damage per remaining charge. From stealth stuns the target and does not consume a charge. This feels like more of an ability that a WK would use, and since I haven't used it since Mod 0 (yes, I’m old) I can’t really comment on it. Even then I only used it on my perma-stealth PVP rogue and never in PVE.

Shadow Strike - medium range attack, medium damage, refills stealth bar. From stealth dazes target, does not remove stealth. Another skill that's almost exclusive to PVP. The damage is ‘not great’ but what really kills this power is the animation. Oh sweet jeebus it hurts to use, I’ve tried to work it into a rotation to utilize more stealth up-time but any possible gain is completely eliminated by the clunky animation. Speed up this animation and I’ll be happy, it might become more useable.

Wicked Reminder - Small aoe(very small), medium damage, debuff’s enemy DR (7.7%), has 3 charges can stack up to 3 times (23.1%). From stealth applies 3 stacks. First of all this ability used to stack up to 5 times, I don’t know when they changed and I’d looooove to hear the justification for why it was changed. What? Were TR’s debuffing bringing too much group support to dungeons? Lawl. Anyway, I personally like WR although I think I read something about a limit to DR debuffs on enemies, and the other classes in a party debuff the enemies up to that limit before WR takes effect? I’m not entirely sure about this so if anyone can help me out on that it would be great. As far as any possible changes to WR I’d like to see the aoe size increased a smidge and I’d like to have a personal dmg increase for the rogue who applied it, not a lot.. 1.5- 2.5% per stack, somewhere around there.

Smoke Bomb - Ground target AOE centered on caster, medium damage, applies daze to targets inside its area. From stealth adds slow effect. Finally, I get to say some good things… kinda. I like smoke bomb, everyone likes smoke bomb, except when you’re pvp’ing and you’re in the enemies smoke that is. The daze is good (I’ll talk about Daze in another post) the damage is good, the duration is good, the cooldown is good, but… I’d like to have faster damage ticks, similar to burning light. Weapon Enchantment Proc's!! Let SB proc weapon enchants, TR's are woefully under-represented in the weapon enchant viability arena. We have 1 choice, vorpal (2 if you count dread on trash mobs, but that requires a 2nd weapon set and constantly swapping depending on what we're fighting).

Shadowy Disappearance - Ground target teleport, damages target at start and end location. Let’s be honest, does anyone use this for anything other than climbing? Cuz I know I sure don’t! I just realized, Shadow Disappearance was introduced at the same time as Hidden Daggers. So they took Blitz and gave it to GWF’s but made it better and they took Might Leap and gave it to TR’s but made it worse.


Blade Flurry - Medium AOE, medium damage. Ability can be cast a 4 times within 10 seconds before triggering cooldown (first activation doesn’t always count). From stealth initial strike does not incur cooldown and has a larger radius. Blade Flurry is an interesting one, its unique among Encounter Powers in its functionality. Its not bad in certain trash clear situations and there is a particular maneuver combining Lurker's Assault and Blade Flurry that I find moderately enjoyable, but its a toss-up. If your in a situation where Blade Flurry is viable then your in a situation where Whirlwind of Blade would be preferable, so you have to decide.. more power and less flurries or smaller buff and more flurries? Also rapidly activating Blade Flurry feels clunky, I wouldn't mind if that somehow got tidied up on the animation front.

Vengeance’s Pursuit - not enough experience with this ability to comment.

archangelzorak01

Daze.

I’ve always had a problem with Daze. Its pretty simple.

Why can enemies still move when dazed? Not only can they move, but they do so with intent, as if they have full capacity even though they just got beaned across the temple or are inhaling noxious amnesia gas.

It makes little sense. Why is that after I bean a troll across the dome that even though he is barely hanging on to consciousness he can still follow me in preparation for an attack that will happen immediately after the daze wears off?

I propose Daze be changed for NPC’s, so that when dazed they just kind of stumble around randomly for the duration. Enemy players affected by daze shall remain unchanged for balance reasons. I say that only half-heartedly as I still think enemy players should stumble around like a batter who just took a fast-ball to the brain-pan.. But I know that if I say it out-loud the entire PVP community will be at my door with torches and pitchforks screaming something about smoke, over, bomb and powered.

archangelzorak01

TR Daily Powers

Before I dive into each Daily Power by itself I want to talk about how dealing dmg on a TR in PVE is tied intrinsically to using Daily Powers and how, unlike other classes, its a give and take relationship.
First, the damage done by our dailies is mostly trash. Besides Shocking Execution dealing high damage in PVP none of our dailies do much actual damage in PVE. I’m totally Ok with that by the way, our dailies buff us and that’s their job so don’t go trying to fix what ain’t broke.
The buff’s we receive when using our dailies come partially from the dailies themselves, as in Lurker’s, Whirlwind, Courage Breaker. The rest of the buffs come from Invisible Infiltrator and Back Alley Tactics. This is where the ‘give and take’ comes into play. So when we use Lurker’s for instance we get a 30% dmg boost for (I think) 8 seconds, we then get 20% for 6 seconds from Invisible Infiltrator. Since we just used a Daily and our AP is now empty we now have a 25% dmg buff from Back alley tactics. If we have Inf. Action slotted with the OH-Arti Power we’re also receiving another 5%. That’s a total of 80% for 6 seconds, which then drops to 60% for 2 seconds then 30%; progressively decreasing over time as our AP fills.
We get our biggest bonuses the instant we’ve used a Daily Power, that bonus then drops down to almost none until we are able to use another daily. Creating a pattern of high and low troughs of damage. This is particularly bothersome for certain dailies that have long animations like Bloodbath or Courage Breaker, by the time the animation has finished we’ve lost half the buffs we just got. That’s just how TR works. Its problematic at times and feels downright punishing at others.

What I propose are a couple of small changes to mitigate the issues. First I’d like to see Inv. Infiltrator have its buff duration increased to match the duration of Lurker’s Assault. Second I’d like to see the buff from Back Alley Tactics changed to increase damage done by 25% for 6 seconds and only then begin to decrease as AP is gained. Finally I’d like to see the inability to gain AP from dealing damage while Lurker’s Assault is active removed. If we could gain AP while Lurker’s was active we could more rapidly use our Dailies bringing our ability to maintain our self buffs more in line with other classes.

One final note concerning our ability to gain AP. It is commonly believed that the Heroic Feat: Action Advantage does nothing, or at least does nothing beyond rank 1. Not only does it not seem to be working it’s weak. Other classes have a similar Heroic Feat that increases their AP gains by 20-30% for dealing certain types of damage, or damage under certain circumstances. I’d appreciate it if TR’s got similar representation in that arena. 20% or even 25% depending on internal testing. (another thing, you guys need to get a top tier TR to do your internal testing, they need to understand the playstyles as well as or better than those of us participating in this thread)

Bloodbath - Bloodbath is the ‘oh s#!t’ button. When you’re in a position where you know you’re about to take massive damage and die from it you can pop BB and be right as rain, and you’ll even have done a bit of damage in the process. The problem arises when BB isn’t slotted, because every PVE TR has Lurker’s and Whirlwind slotted 99% of the time. So how useful is BB? Well, not much. It’s not quite good enough for us to choose it over LA or WoB, or at least, I’ve never found it to be good enough. It does double proc stuff which seems like that would make it really good, but even though it double procs buffs that proc on daily use it occupies 50% of the duration of said buffs.. So you really don’t gain anything. So sure, it’s Ok… but not quite good enough.

Lurker’s Assault - The bread and butter. The beans on toast. The hummus on pita. You get the idea. Lurker’s is the core of single target damage. It's good, but it can be better. As above I mentioned the allowance of AP gains while Lurker’s is active. I believe this simple change will take a good ability and make it great.

Whirlwind of Blades - If target in range is less than or equal to 3 use Lurker’s, if targets in range is greater than 3 use Whirlwind. The power boost from Whirlwind cannot be denied, it allows for some of the highest (un-bugged) power amounts possible in Neverwinter. I’m totally cool with Whirlwind remaining as it is. Maybe the buff could last a smidge longer?

Courage Breaker - CB is decent, it provides the largest single source reduction in target damage output in the game, but is only useful if your tank needs the help, if your tank is fine than you get a bigger damage boost from Lurker’s. Sans pvp where CB+SB=Ultimate Troll. Everyone hates CB+SB but no one can deny its effectiveness. I dislike the animation on CB in a PVE environment, but I’m ok with it staying as it is as long as some of the above buff duration changes take place.

Shocking Execution - The bane of the PVP community. TR’s know they need it and everyone else hates getting 1-shot. Well I’m not a PVP connoisseur anymore but when I did PVP I felt like everything else at my disposal was gimp. Nothing I had felt like it hit hard enough to make a difference, but I had SE so I used it. (When I wasn’t trolling nodes with CB+SB that is. This thread is primarily focused on PVE performance, so considering that SE feel incredibly weak in PVE. Since we all know how much Armor Pen we need to mitigate 100% of all NPC’s the piercing factor is meaningless, and since SE is balanced around the fact that it does piercing damage the actual damage is less than if it wasn’t. This rule can be applied to just about all piercing damage in PVE. Its just not very good, and it's due to the fact that enemies don’t have enough DR and players have too much Armor Pen. If enemies were balanced better, or if there were legitimate stat curves, or if there just wasn't as much armor pen to go around maybe piercing damage would mean something, but in the current meta of the game it simply does not.

Hateful Knives - not enough experience to comment, apologies.

In conclusion. TR’s fall behind in their ability to self buff because their self buffs are tied to Daily Power usage. This would be mitigated by either an increase in buff duration from both Daily Powers and buffs when using Daily Powers or an increased capacity for gaining AP (which is a double edged sword if Back Alley Tactics remains unchanged).

archangelzorak01

Hahahahahahaha, read all THAT bishes!! *collapses on desk*

edit: Oh sweet jeebus I just realized I still need to do feats. Hatziluuuuuuu!!!

pitshade

It maybe that this was changed but it still feels to be true, Dazing is a tiny AoE out of stealth. The mobs have to be on top of each other, however.

Before mod 5, Lashing's stealth buff was just that it auto crit.

You can stop the jump back effect from Blitz by casting it during a jump. Your character will throw the knives and simply land.

lordseth1985

rustlord said:

Here's what I'd like to see for WK passives (But maybe for just the sake of saying them, no idea if we're ever getting a rework this thorough)

Dagger Threat: Your ranged at will and encounter powers deal 50% more damage and your melee powers deal X % less.

-- from my experience this is the boost needed to make WK a viable ranged dps, but I want this to be justified elsewhere by making it strictly ranged. I shouldn't bleed you for half of your HP and come in with a (post-buff) Lashing Blade

Razor Action Your ranged daily powers deal 50% of its damage as Bleed damage over 5 seconds.

-- strongest WK passive only because its bugged. this power IS NOT supposed to be piercing and it multiprocs like hell at its present state

Why not turn those feats on WK "exclusive" fatures? I mean, when we hit lvl 30, we had the option between 2 paths: WK or MI. Devs could make that choice more interesting by adding a "all the time active feat", just like OP oaths work. I mean:

>>> If you choose WK, your ranged at wills and encounter powers will do 50% more damage, have 100% increased range, and your melee ones will deal 30% less;
>>> If you choose MI, whenever you have combat advantage, all your melee at wills and encounters will ake your target bleed for x% of weapon damage, and this can have X stacks, also your ranged at wills and encounter will do 30% less damage.

IMO, this can solve a lot of things and open space for erally usefull feats.

till

@sirjimbofrancis - Please add to the list a bug under Shadow of Demise:

The tooltip says that damage taken will not interrupt stealth regeneration. Sealth regeneration is still interrupted by damage from all mobs, and AOE damage effects over time. (example, CC boss' fire bombs)

I cannot effectively tell if the SoD stealth uninterruption was intended to be Single Target effected by SoD; or all targets. But the text should be updated to be more clear, and the stealth interruption from AoE damage fixed as well

trgluestickz

archangelzorak01 said:

Hahahahahahaha, read all THAT bishes!! *collapses on desk*

edit: Oh sweet jeebus I just realized I still need to do feats. Hatziluuuuuuu!!!

Just came back after 2 days to all of this. I see I'm going to be here a while...

I laud the density of your posts, you're as bad as me. +1

rustlord

lordseth1985 said:

Why not turn those feats on WK "exclusive" fatures? I mean, when we hit lvl 30, we had the option between 2 paths: WK or MI. Devs could make that choice more interesting by adding a "all the time active feat", just like OP oaths work. I mean:

>>> If you choose WK, your ranged at wills and encounter powers will do 50% more damage, have 100% increased range, and your melee ones will deal 30% less;
>>> If you choose MI, whenever you have combat advantage, all your melee at wills and encounters will ake your target bleed for x% of weapon damage, and this can have X stacks, also your ranged at wills and encounter will do 30% less damage.

IMO, this can solve a lot of things and open space for erally usefull feats.

I think that's a more static approach, but what it differs in effect is players of either path are more landlocked by the paragon they choose. I respect the idea of taking a specific design and twisting and turning it into something else, that there could be players keen to make a purely melee WK even though the reasoning of it eludes me.

By weaving these changes to defunct, but nonetheless already existing, passives it gives us a bigger freedom of choice; outlines more specifically what may be involved in implementation; brings underperforming abilities more in line with others; and accomplishes the original vision behind the design.

That being said, I don't want to discredit what you're getting at. I see the merit of creating a permanent divide between the paragons, maybe it's just a little too far for somebody else?

trgluestickz

mafiadelperro#8853 said:

On the yesterdays stream the Cryptic staff dodged the question about TR rework from what i was able to hear and said something like, instead of taking each class and reworking it we are doing something else now...

> I seriously doubt they play and test TR properly. Nothing they do in general can fix TR until they fix TR itself because it simply has too many issues and doesnt scale well at all

Yeah prolly they will fix some stuff and nerf others like our beloved encounter the smoke bomb but hope they actually fix the more importants and do something with stealth mechanic

I have my doubts that the devs will nerf smokebomb, they might but its not a sure thing thankfully.

trgluestickz

silktrocity said:

Day 1 TR here. Here are a few little things I'd really like to see added/changed to help balance our class without going overboard.

1. I'd really like to see our stealth regeneration stop being penalized when taking damage and instead have a more consistent regeneration even if the speed itself has to be lowered to balance this out. The introduction of the riverfront zone and the numerous AoE spamming enemies has really brought this ongoing issue out of the darkness and into the light. I do not think any other class mechanic is hampered in such a way and ours should be no different.

2. I would like to see Lashing Blade cool down decreased by 1 second so that it brings the cooldown more in line with other ton's hard hitting encounters. That along with making the power require a target to be used so that we no longer accidentally miss enemies. Other classes have this functionality when there is no cone that increases the range of a melee encounter. So why doesn't ours? I'd argue the same for the GWF's IB if it's any consolation.

3. I would like to see an AoE at-will introduced since we are the only class in the entire game without one. The details on this will be difficult to figure out but I find it necessary that we eventually get one. I had been toying with the idea of having something very similar to blade flurry in animation and practice but with lowered damage per hit.

4. A change to how SoD works. As it is now we very rarely are allowed to take full advantage of our capstone because mobs most likely die before the 6 seconds to proc. There are 2 ways we could go. The first is keep the mechanic working as it already is and adjust the timing. Id like to see the bonus piercing damage be calculated every 2 seconds 3 times before it ends Or possibly ever 1 second. Our second option is to simplify the capstone so it provides a flat damage bonus. If something like this were to occur then we could come up with times vs damage bonus until we find one that is balanced. For example: SoD could offer a 10% flat damage bonus for 10 seconds with a cool down of 5 seconds, or It could offer a 20% damage bonus for 5 seconds with a 15 second cool down. Either way I feel that it is necessary that something is changed with this.

5. Enemy NPC's should not be able to see us while we are in stealth. It should be an added utility that helps with our survival and aids in helping our fellow dungeon dwellers in group content.

Final thoughts: Our class is in a fantastic place if you are knowledgeable and skillful. It has one of the highest learning curves in the game and I wouldn't have it any other way. However it is definetly a class that is more punishing to play for newer players and adjustments should be made to help alleviate some of their ails.

You suggested making it so your stealth meter takes longer to recharge in exchange for making it so stealth regeneration is no longer interrupted from taking damage. I fully support this idea as it would be beneficial and I agree that there is no real need to penalize our stealth regen.
Obviously if this was done, the part of shadow of demise that states "your stealth regeneration is no longer interrupted from taking damage" would need to be removed and replaced. That part of SOD is misleading anyhow since it does not completely stop your stealth regeneration from being interrupted like it says, it instead behaves more like our passive tenacious concealment and only does a partial job. In an earlier post, I suggested simply fixing this part of SOD so it actually does what it says it does but your idea would be even better.
Your suggestion also means that tenacious concealment will have to be completely reworked or replaced, not that it didn't already need that but your idea ups the incentive to change it even more.

I agree that lashing blade should have its cooldown reduced, however, this reduction should be more than just 1 second.

We for sure will not be getting another at will durring this rework. The number of powers each class has is kept consistant, each class has the same number of powers per category and this won't change unless the level cap rises again.
that said I'm not sure how I feel about TRs getting an AOE at will anyhow. We are meant to be the best single target dps so its probably for the best that we remain the only class with no AOE at will. If we did get an AOE at will, I would not want it to be similar to blade flurry.
While we are on the subject of theoretical future at wills, I would prefer a new melee single target at will that is animated as a simple forwards facing stab attack. Even though TRs are rogues and stabbing stuff is supposed to be iconic for us, we ended up with almost no actual stab attacks. Lashing blade is a sideways stab and deft strike says its a stab in the tooltip but its animated as a slash so it only sort of counts.

For SOD, your suggestion is very similar to the suggestion offered by the people who started this thread. The 10% or 20% damage increase for x number of seconds are decent draft patterns to work off of but the damage is too low. Your first idea of making SOD deal its damage in 3 ticks is a little better than your second 2 ideas. Here is the SOD suggestion from the main post, these would be similar to your ideas but stronger:

"Shadows of Demise - The problem with this capstone feat is that it doesn't have a chance to proc in highly geared parties, because most things die in less than 6 seconds. This makes the executioner path not scale well into Endgame BIS.
One solution is to make SoD work in 1 sec ticks after the initial proc, and extend SoD an extra second. This way, it applies the extra 50% damage accumulated each second at the end of each second for the duration of SoD. So, for the 7 seconds SoD lasts, it will be 7 ticks.

Another option would be to grant a flat +50% damage for 6 seconds from when SoD is procced. This is essentially what it does now, only on a 6 second delay and with piercing damage. This would be an easier option if the former turns out to be too difficult."

I agree that enemies should not be able to see us while we are in stealth, +1 there.

At BIS, even the best TRs lag behind other well geared classes considerably, mastering the learning curve does not fix this if you go against your equals in skill but it will allow you to beat some less skilled players with a similar IL to you. In short, becoming BIS doesn't land you "in a fantastic place" exactly. Just about everything TRs can do, other classes can do better though we can hold our own. The learning curve I wouldn't mind remaining the steepest out of all classes either and this curve does need to be decreased.

trgluestickz

blur#5900 said:

@silktrocity
1. Many have suggested this but i am not sure how fair it would be to have that in PvP. I am not a PvP player but it seems unfair. In PvE it can be implemented.
2. Yes, already mentioned. It should be lowered by more than 1 sec tho.
3. I have suggested this as well some time ago in form of making Sly Flourish aoe, maybe would be too strong so some limitations would have to be added. Either a small radius or halved damage when hitting multiple targets. Today i made Sabo build for AOE combat and cd reduction feats do a great job and encounters get ready in time so at-will aoe isnt needed here but for Exe it could be useful.
4. Have your read our original suggestions? Basicaly the same, except your numbers are too low in 2nd option and cd is not needed.
5. Yep.

Thanks for suggestions.

As a PVPer, I don't think his stealth idea will be unfair in PVP, It should be fine honestly. Extending the time it takes stealth to regenerate in exchange for no delay from taking damage should balance this out smoothly.