More competitiveness in PvE

neverwinterdevil

I think that as the progress goes on and end game players get bored a quit the game a lot lately we should have something more to compete for other than gear and other bounty rewards. As an idea i would suggest a type of ranking maybe similar to the pvp one, but working and not with weekly resets, to have as an open project where you could add more to it as we go along. For starters i would like to see a ranking for all lvl 70 dungeons where the sorting is done for each class and it displays at least a top 200 ,with players in that class, and made possible to sort by dps, healing, tanking, class efficiency in a specific dungeon and other stuff.
Also i would like to see a guild ranking system aswell where the going up or down on the ladder would be made by each guild's player involvement in pve and pvp aswell as efficiency. For example: if a group with 2 gwfs runs elol and 1 of them out dps's the other by a 10mil margin then he should get a better score for him self and for the guild ranking. Of course each dungeon would have it's own default points being awarded by lvl of difficulty like elol being a relatively easy dungeon for most and then ecc, etos, egwd, cn. It's best if fbi and sva are being left out for now, since many people don't have the gear to get there or they're being left out because they're not good enough.
Anyways this would be a work in progress if it sounds like a good idea for others aswell. I for one can say that i'm pretty jaded of the daily grind and this would be a competitive edge that would make me step up my game

greywynd

Since when is PvE competitive?

rickcase276

More like, since when should PvE be competitive? But some people play the game for different reasons and different results.

kallephi

neverwinterdevil said:

I think that as the progress goes on and end game players get bored a quit the game a lot lately we should have something more to compete for other than gear and other bounty rewards. As an idea i would suggest a type of ranking maybe similar to the pvp one, but working and not with weekly resets, to have as an open project where you could add more to it as we go along. For starters i would like to see a ranking for all lvl 70 dungeons where the sorting is done for each class and it displays at least a top 200 ,with players in that class, and made possible to sort by dps, healing, tanking, class efficiency in a specific dungeon and other stuff.
Also i would like to see a guild ranking system aswell where the going up or down on the ladder would be made by each guild's player involvement in pve and pvp aswell as efficiency. For example: if a group with 2 gwfs runs elol and 1 of them out dps's the other by a 10mil margin then he should get a better score for him self and for the guild ranking. Of course each dungeon would have it's own default points being awarded by lvl of difficulty like elol being a relatively easy dungeon for most and then ecc, etos, egwd, cn. It's best if fbi and sva are being left out for now, since many people don't have the gear to get there or they're being left out because they're not good enough.
Anyways this would be a work in progress if it sounds like a good idea for others aswell. I for one can say that i'm pretty jaded of the daily grind and this would be a competitive edge that would make me step up my game

Ranking by damage, healing is not a good idea in my opinion. But, in the other hand, making something different for PVE would be nice.
Like getting titles for a first world completion (Wow had something like this), they would be the only to have the title, and that is quite an achievement. Or a title for beating a boss or a dungeon on hard mode (let's say completing FBI without any deaths in the group).
I remember an achievement from wow, named "I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am"...it was close to impossible to get that achievement, you had to beat a very very difficult boss without any deaths in the group and in your first try, without any wipe. Some people got it.

spideymt

I like the idea with the titles, but i dont like the comparison with WOW. Sry...

lantern22

kallephi#0836 said:

neverwinterdevil said:

I think that as the progress goes on and end game players get bored a quit the game a lot lately we should have something more to compete for other than gear and other bounty rewards. As an idea i would suggest a type of ranking maybe similar to the pvp one, but working and not with weekly resets, to have as an open project where you could add more to it as we go along. For starters i would like to see a ranking for all lvl 70 dungeons where the sorting is done for each class and it displays at least a top 200 ,with players in that class, and made possible to sort by dps, healing, tanking, class efficiency in a specific dungeon and other stuff.
Also i would like to see a guild ranking system aswell where the going up or down on the ladder would be made by each guild's player involvement in pve and pvp aswell as efficiency. For example: if a group with 2 gwfs runs elol and 1 of them out dps's the other by a 10mil margin then he should get a better score for him self and for the guild ranking. Of course each dungeon would have it's own default points being awarded by lvl of difficulty like elol being a relatively easy dungeon for most and then ecc, etos, egwd, cn. It's best if fbi and sva are being left out for now, since many people don't have the gear to get there or they're being left out because they're not good enough.
Anyways this would be a work in progress if it sounds like a good idea for others aswell. I for one can say that i'm pretty jaded of the daily grind and this would be a competitive edge that would make me step up my game

Ranking by damage, healing is not a good idea in my opinion. But, in the other hand, making something different for PVE would be nice.
Like getting titles for a first world completion (Wow had something like this), they would be the only to have the title, and that is quite an achievement. Or a title for beating a boss or a dungeon on hard mode (let's say completing FBI without any deaths in the group).
I remember an achievement from wow, named "I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am"...it was close to impossible to get that achievement, you had to beat a very very difficult boss without any deaths in the group and in your first try, without any wipe. Some people got it.

Or getting a Grand Slam for completing all the dungeons in a day

forumnamesuxs

@greywynd
Since they made quests griefable.
Since they put a pvp element to basic quests.
Paingiver chart.

neverwinterdevil

greywynd said:

Since when is PvE competitive?

Since the game started. Every dps class will look to out dps-each other, healers to do best buffs/debuffs, tanks with buffs/end boss surivability and brag on how many enemies they have slained, etc. We all know how there is always that one dps class who runs ahead in dungeons to get most dmg and kills, but wheter it is for personal gain or for the right to brag i think there should be introduced a system which will encourage this even more. I can tell you right now that it will make many dps classes who right now don't have a good build and can't be bothered to improve that this competitive edge will wake them up, if not all of them at least half

qexotic

neverwinterdevil said:

greywynd said:

Since when is PvE competitive?

Since the game started. Every dps class will look to out dps-each other, healers to do best buffs/debuffs, tanks with buffs/end boss surivability and brag on how many enemies they have slained, etc. We all know how there is always that one dps class who runs ahead in dungeons to get most dmg and kills, but wheter it is for personal gain or for the right to brag i think there should be introduced a system which will encourage this even more. I can tell you right now that it will make many dps classes who right now don't have a good build and can't be bothered to improve that this competitive edge will wake them up, if not all of them at least half

PVE has never been competitive, only some of the players who take part in it are. They are more often than not, the ones who spoil the game for the rest of the players. This sort of thing should not be encouraged which is exactly what would happen if more 'competitive' elements were introduced to Neverwinter PVE. A change like this would suck out any remaining fun and enjoyment left in this game for me. So I really hope this is a thread that the devs completely ignore.

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lantern22

neverwinterdevil said:

greywynd said:

Since when is PvE competitive?

Since the game started. Every dps class will look to out dps-each other, healers to do best buffs/debuffs, tanks with buffs/end boss surivability and brag on how many enemies they have slained, etc. We all know how there is always that one dps class who runs ahead in dungeons to get most dmg and kills, but wheter it is for personal gain or for the right to brag i think there should be introduced a system which will encourage this even more. I can tell you right now that it will make many dps classes who right now don't have a good build and can't be bothered to improve that this competitive edge will wake them up, if not all of them at least half

Hmm . . . you've lost me now. the only good about people rushing ahead on a glory crusade is when they die. Sometimes when I'm tanking if I think there might be a humiliating death about to occur, I'll sit back and wait. If it does, I'll go in aggro all the mobs and "No Rez for you!!!" bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha suffer in yer jocks bwahahahahahahahahah

neverwinterdevil

we can't all agree so it's okay that you're against the idea but like i said, some people will never change and from my point of view this will increase the fun. it doesn't mean that everyone has to participate, the rankings would just be for bragging rights, ego and possibly for other players to choose a guild based on real stats and not just words. i think there is a lot that can be done with this idea and a lot of fun and good stuff can come out it if followed through and get some more feedback on it.

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neverwinterdevil

magenubbie said:

neverwinterdevil said:

we can't all agree so it's okay that you're against the idea but like i said, some people will never change and from my point of view this will increase the fun. it doesn't mean that everyone has to participate, the rankings would just be for bragging rights, ego and possibly for other players to choose a guild based on real stats and not just words. i think there is a lot that can be done with this idea and a lot of fun and good stuff can come out it if followed through and get some more feedback on it.

Bragging rights=power. Power=discrimination. Discrimination=people being left out. I fail to see how this increases any fun. You can say that "it doesn't mean that everyone has to participate", but how do you think we ended up with these elitist hamsters in the first place? Exactly like that.

i strongly disagree with your discrimination claim. what you are talking about is already happening, the elitists are already here and they will never go away because there will be always someone new to take their place.

once more i'm saying that this will give the average player more ambition and stride to succeed at a higher lvl because right now many are not interested in trying out new builds or asking for advice, they just do their own thing and very often it doesn't work out too well. if dungeons are so difficult to put in the game because of different reasons then this ranking system will at least give us something else/more to look up to and not regard the game as such an undesirable grind place where most come to do their dailies and weeklies.

dread4moor

@qexotic
"PVE has never been competitive, only some of the players who take part in it are. They are more often than not, the ones who spoil the game for the rest of the players. This sort of thing should not be encouraged which is exactly what would happen if more 'competitive' elements were introduced to Neverwinter PVE."
This.
Moooaar "I am paingiver/your DPS sucks" mentality will improve PvE? I disagree.
The best part of PvE is inter-party cooperation, not competition.
Cooperative play, synergy of powers, utility of support players and selfless sacrifice for the team are the principles of PvE party adventuring. Teamwork has been the goal ever since Gary Gygax rolled his first natural 20.

But to stay positive, I agree with @neverwinterdevil about being "jaded with the daily grind". Even if I disagree with this proposal, I respect that you are proposing solutions rather than simply complaining.

greywynd

forumnamesuxs said:

@greywynd

Since they made quests griefable.

Since they put a pvp element to basic quests.

Paingiver chart.

HAMSTER being HAMSTER isn't a competition.
What PvP element is there in basic quests? The only quests I'm aware of that have any touch of a PvP element are the IWD quests that require you to go into the PvP areas to do basic stuff, like prospecting.
Who cares about Paingiver?

neverwinterdevil

dread4moor said:

@qexotic

But to stay positive, I agree with @neverwinterdevil about being "jaded with the daily grind". Even if I disagree with this proposal, I respect that you are proposing solutions rather than simply complaining.

thank you!! i'm not saying my idea is great and everyone should dig it... it's something to work with or work around it at least because dungeon or mod wise it would be far more easier to create and implement in the game. was hoping for this thread to create a brainstorm rather than a yes or no poll, so please do bring your ideas to the table aswell and let's put together something that the vast majority here on the forums can agree on

kangkeok

I prefer a more cooperative game than a competitive one. I remember people wont rezz each other even they are just beneath their feet just because they wanna be competitive. That just spoil the fun IMO.

ilmenira

what a sad idea!
this happens wherever we look in so called "real life"...
in neverwinter i'd search for real play!
and it's not THAT easy to find, with all that (in my feeling meaningless) worrying and striving for better gear, better damage etc pp.
paingiver table is already far too much looked at! monsters get overkilled, teamwork gets overlooked a lot.

well, have fun with it! in fact, i wouldn't need to take part in that new "competition" :-)) ... and i wouldn't want to.

neverwinterdevil

ilmenira said:

well, have fun with it! in fact, i wouldn't need to take part in that new "competition" :-)) ... and i wouldn't want to.

it wouldn't be a competition so to speak, rank and results would improve everytime you complete a dungeon

raydroot

Saw this in my last FBI. Certain DPS toon died 60 times by the time we got to the first boss. It was amusing.

tom

Tbh a ranking system would be pointless if all dungeons can be bugged/exploited.
And it would only further increase the hate directed at "elitist" players

forumnamesuxs

@greywynd
PvP can be so much more than just killing, and node capture. I mean in this case, the "I see you are heading towards that quest objective, but my character is faster, so I'm going to take it from you" part of it. The race to the objectives, so to speak.
Call it what you will, a disrespectful version of competitive behavior, or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> behaving like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. The result is the same.

Everyone who ever rolled a full support character, knows the feeling of being in the middle of a long fight, trying to clear trash mobs, while some jerk off takes whatever they were guarding. I don't want anything to encourage even more of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.

It's why (or rather one of many reasons) I stopped playing my support classes as support. DC can't heal, GF can't tank for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Only exception is my OPH, who can tank any t2 but Orcus (haven't tried) while healing the party, but I never EVER send her to adventure zones alone, except to kill red wizards.

forumnamesuxs

@raydroot
Let me guess, GWF rushing ahead, or CW who has yet to figure out how to use shift + wasd in combat?
Oh oh, or maybe any ranged class attacking before tank have had time to pull aggro? I love it when those pull four giants, two bears, and a group of tinies, and subsequently die.
I've done that myself though, either forgetting how much harder those guys hit, or forgetting to see if the rest of the party are in a position to help out. It's embarrassing

umarachnea

neverwinterdevil said:

greywynd said:

Since when is PvE competitive?

Since the game started. Every dps class will look to out dps-each other, healers to do best buffs/debuffs, tanks with buffs/end boss surivability and brag on how many enemies they have slained, etc. We all know how there is always that one dps class who runs ahead in dungeons to get most dmg and kills, but wheter it is for personal gain or for the right to brag i think there should be introduced a system which will encourage this even more. I can tell you right now that it will make many dps classes who right now don't have a good build and can't be bothered to improve that this competitive edge will wake them up, if not all of them at least half

While I certainly appreciate the effort to bring something to the table, a couple of things irk me here, so forgive the nitpicking, but i must:

A- it is not dps "classes", but "Players" who do that. The class is just there. I would like to add that they are the only ones who can make use of such a system. They focus on charts, and no other charts currently cater to any other roles.

B- Healers Heal, they do not buff/debuff. This is very personal to me, as I'm a cleric who focused on the AC Righteous to buff and debuff. That being said, topping any healing charts at this stage of the game, is mostly a reflection of how bad the group is, and not how good of a healer you are. This is due to the fact that there is no real need for healers. Buffs are not registered, I believe they asked for them but seems complicated.

C- Tanks surviving as well as maintaining aggro, is the job description. Damage taken is not a reflection of how good they are, since a high dps group will kill the enemies before they deal enough damage to top the charts.

D- (people not classes) the only ones who will be interested, are the ones who currently care about those charts and achievements.

Alright, nit-picking done, so back to business:

1- Add group achievements. i.e. Least Damage Taken (by whole group). Maybe even add composition requirement. So 1 Tank, 1 Healer/Buffer, 3 DD. Speed of finishing entire dungeon, Speed of finishing individual bosses. Maybe even make it accessible for everyone to see, they have a target. The elitists can bugger off and do their thing, while others have something to aim for.

2- Individual Achievements: Something like running 25 consecutive FBI runs without dying. Achievements that do take personal skill and a decent group of people as well.

3- For the support classes, this gets tricky. Can't think of ways to give them something to compete on.

Personally, I don't get the whole competitive feeling in PvE. Whether you are top of DPS chart or bottom, you are still clearing the dungeon/whatever and still getting the loot... why people obsess over it is beyond me... but then again I'm a healer turned buffer... so what do I know.

kangkeok

The only thing i can think of to make dungeon run more competitive without ignoring co-operative play is to measure the run through time it takes. Of course best time is not rewarded with anything but the name of party member being listed in the dungeon description of the que menu waiting for another party to break their record. So its just for fun.

thefiresidecat

greywynd said:

Since when is PvE competitive?

my experience is pve is VERY competitive. you are judged. lol. (this is not my reasoning for playing pve) but the judging is real. I personally don't think it should be encouraged. epeen is epeen. no reason to get out the blue ribbons to hang on their epeens for further display imo.

mamalion1234

smolder and rimefire smolder will always remind on the dps cw is 5% of his damage when a mof is around;p

goodyearbadday

This idea is exactly the opposite of the game that the devs have tried to build. based on D&D, the idea here was supposed to be groups of players working together to accomplish goals that they could not reach individually. & then the players got ahold of it. Every single time that devs have come up with an idea to get players playing together, the player base whined & moaned, & went out to find a way around it. I don't think that there is any way back to the original concept. I think we have gone too far down the left-hand path. Still, I can't imagine that the devs will ever institute anything that would intentionally fracture what little cooperation we have built up here.

armadeonx

Personally I'd like to see more interesting aspects in the open world content. Things like jumping puzzles, hidden nooks that are hard to find but open a mini-quest or reward and maybe an explorers title for players who've fully uncovered/explored all pve zone maps.

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