Oathbound Paladin

ispaniko1983

you think after the nerf the paladin healer or protector best to use it?

armadeonx

I'm suspecting oath of devotion, but the real test will be what people want for groups after things have settled. I'll carry on with protection until I see how things go.

thefiresidecat

I'm waiting to see how it all falls out before I decide the fates of my dc and pal. I stand by my assertion that the buffing dc is kind of worthless compared to other buffing classes.. (and who knows maybe I'm wrong. it happens on occasion) If it turns out that the pal becomes the worthy healer and the dc is rendered pretty much useless... I may just retire my dc and spend some time levelling up my GF instead. I dunno. I guess the one reason to keep the dc and use it in that capacity would be the dungeon queues are still kindest to dcs.. but without the bubble and so few people queuing.. and the prevalence of 2000 il people being the majority that you meet... I kind of think my days of doing dungeons no matter who is there, just to help out, is over as soon as this fix is released. Too much hassle. people quitting.. dying over and over ect.

warface1968

I think pallys will become the off- tank but never again the primary. There will be months of screaming though from the masses, because the survival rate will be too low. A good guardian can keep well geared players alive but undergeared will die fast and quit. You want truth...I watch my bubble sometimes drop on purpose and wait. I watch the health of the team of high level players drop instantly. So I pop the bubble. The only one surving wout the bubble are GWF and GFs for obvious reasons.

The problem isnt the bubble. The problem is too much red on the ground for an average player to avoid and the one shot capability of trash mobs. It wont make them better, it will make them dead. Devs if you get rid of the bubble then drop the damage by trash mobs for the undergeared players.

That or be honest about the gear score in dungeons.

armadeonx

For players to run without a bubble they need either:

a. a good source of temp health
b. a damage reduction stat higher than enemy RI
c. enough HP to absorb crit hits from most sources
d. sufficient deflect that it is effective most of the time

This covers decently specced GWFs, OP's, GF's, DC's & TR's - but decently specced means they are over 2.7k & geared with defence in mind.

This leaves CW's, SW's & HR's out in the cold. None of them are able to take more than 2 ordinary hits in a T2, let alone a 'red' encounter skill - even at 3k.

The devs need to have a long hard look at how defensive stats work for all classes.

My suggestion is where high DR is not appropriate due to armor types, they need to increase the effectiveness of deflect from 50% to the 75% enjoyed by the TR and add a deflect increase option in feats.

The justification being that these classes obviously need to dodge a lot more + their DR is never going to be high enough to overcome T2 npc RI, leaving them with the option of doing less dps to reduce threat or hoping their tank creates enough threat that enemies don't target them at all.

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armadeonx

True and defence is one of the first boons that guilds make but the trouble is the RI of most enemies in T2's versus the Armor Class stat. My DC can have the same number of points in defence as one of my casters but the caster will have half the Damage Reduction due to AC. This raises the question 'is Defence the best place to focus on for actual defence?'

In normal content it's not an issue as enemy RI is lower but if they are 1shotting anyone with below 50% DR then there's a problem.

SW's of course have some advantage in that Constitution is a primary stat & the soul puppet can be feated so it provides increased defence or lifesteal.

To me, the real villain is the way defence works in D&D, simply having a higher RI stat than the opponents defence means they have zero defence - that's just stupid. Your Damage Reduction % stat should negate that percentage of damage from all attacks, do away with RI altogether & just use DR reduction skills/enchantments to increase the amount that gets through.

So if an encounter does 20k damage then the opponent should take 20k dmg + buffs + any crit, less enemy defence %.

Of course that will never happen due to the game roughly following D&D rules. Hence my point about Deflect being a more viable alternative to 'squishy' classes.

volourn

That has nothing to do with D&D.The game is D&D in name only pretty much rules wise. Still fun in its own way but certainly not following D&D rules 'roughly' or otherwise.

armadeonx

Fair enough, but what about the actual point I made? That "Your Damage Reduction % stat should negate that percentage of damage from all attacks, do away with RI altogether & just use DR reduction skills/enchantments to increase the amount that gets through."

masterwolf56

Nerfs will only effect the paladins that don't stack recovery. If you can get a snail, devoted sigil and stack recovery, you can still perma bubble. Paladins won't be a dime a dozen after May 3. By the time you get that high of recovery, you can perma binding oath at the same time. So they're effecting a few people but the end game paladins will still be able to do it.

armadeonx

I can see perma binding oath as at 5.5k recovery / 35% AP gain I can pretty much do that already. In fact BO actually lasts longer than the new timer on the bubble - lol.

Without haste the best I can see people running bubble is 50/50. You'll be hard pressed to recharge your daily faster than 12 secs even with a snail. There is I believe an 800 point cap on AP gain from equipment, the rest has to come via recovery & feats which means you'd have to give over all offence slots & armor enhancements to recovery, reducing your power stat.

This pretty much defines you as a "one trick pony" which of course has been the OP's curse since introduction. The real downside of course is that only lower specced groups will need you.

I'm actually quite interested in experimenting with the de/buff aspects that have been ignored up til now & creating a tank that can protect & buff a group without the bubble.

E.g. I'm interested to see how much threat Aura of Radiance creates at 4 points with 20k power & if it's affected by RI (more dmg = more threat). Maybe add a point or two into the ignored feat Dominating Presence for expanded auras & try 4 points in Aura of Protection (12.5% increased DR for group) to help bring players DR above enemy RI, or Aura of Truth so enemies deal 12.5% less damage - Given the damage out put of everything in T2's, this may be more practical in overall reduced damage.

Anyway, I'm suspecting that focusing all attention into recovery at the cost of power reduces threat generation. Whilst these experiments may eventually only yield a turkey, I am very interested to find out the results as I think the current thinking severely restricts the potential of the class.

sundance777

If they change the bubble to 6 second duration that will be a fun challenge to maintain a bubble. I know I can do that with a haste behind me but for the past few days I have started practicing a new rotation with does not need 100% bubble for the party to survive. My recovery hovers around 6K, I have lots of AP gain , 1500 + points, and of course the snail, I need to look at % AP gain again. I feel like if I could stop being knocked down a bit more/better I would be perma or close even at the 6 second mark.

sicklikeflu

My rogue runs radiant in defense slots. I have 100k or so HP. Most things can one shot me, even with 10k defense (mostly from guild boon).

To me one key is learning how to play your character. Sure I go down sometimes, but it's usually when I'm "going in", and making poor decisions. If I play intelligently, and dodge generally I'm ok as long as my team does something similar.

Another key is that tank classes actually tank. There are entirely to many "dps tanks.
It's extremely frustration when in the first stage of demo I see a bubble pally closing portals and trying to kill mobs when the demogorgon is standing right there thrashing the whole group.

No offense Indy, I fear your dps, and know you can tank. Think you were the first GF I played with who could tank both scorpions at once in mod 5.

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sicklikeflu

Radiants seemed like the best general purpose defense enchantment on my rogue. Somewhat useful in pvp, and pve.
I'm built in a way that doesn't justify me taking deflect boons, or silvery would be more viable.

sicklikeflu

Just realized the OP was about pally builds. Sorry for going so OT, I was very tired when I replied initially.

armadeonx

poopoomcmuffns is right though, as a TR you are definitely missing a trick by stacking health and not deflect.