I know that no one really cares.. but after running eToS on preview with ~2.4k ilvl characters (Prot OP, Virt DC and 3 DPS), there was very little change. In fact, I never once used Divine Protector... the DC did a bulk of the shielding. I just aggro'd things, kept my Temp HP maxed as best I could and let DPS do their job.
I really wish people would stop freaking out.
Yesterday I did test "bubbleless" run eToS. I asked party if it is not problem. All agreed, they were happy (not kidding) to get chance to learn avoid red zones . I had aura of prot, aura of wisdom, binding, templar wrath and circle of power (very nice, I got 30% more temp HP). With all of it I had 80% DR without sanctuary. To my surprise, it was one of my easiest runs. I did not avoid red zones and had no problem. I have justice pally with only 2300 gear. In the other hand, my DPS was very low (as allways), but I had no problem to survive. Before starting the fight I did binding oath, run to enemies, did templar and circle. I did sanctuary before first binding blast, but when i got full temp hp (about 330000), I simply let binding oath blows to my face without problem.
What exactly did you provide to your team with that setup? Sure you managed to stay alive but aside from a bit of DR and some AP gain you were likely dead weight. A GF in your place would have soaked up damage and greatly buffed DPS.
This is the issue, OP's will still be able to run stuff but they won't be a useful member of the team when you have to focus your powers on keeping yourself standing and not on contributing to your team in a meaningful way. If a OP can't keep the others in the team alive, can't provide decent DPS, can't heal, can't keep threat then who would want one in the team?
Good point. When I joined this party, dungeon was in progress. They were waiting near second campfire, they all died few times and their tank (dont know if GF, or OP) left away. With me we were able to complete dungeon, HR was the best DPS with 148mil dmg. I provide them time and space for their dmg. During this run just only one of them died again once, complain, he did not see red area on ground. OP can boost dmg/heal a little through aura gifts, boost DR and reduce cooldown by auras. Bubble will depend on situation, maybe shield of faith will do better service. It would be better, if binding oath worked as decribed (All targets near the Paladin are forced to attack him....). I do not say GF is not better. We just were able to do dungeon without my bubble.
Svatá Prdelka game - Human/real life - ??? OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
When I first came to this game, there was never a dependency on ap gain. Now it's like everyone wants haste because they got used to it. The HoT tree is not useless, trust me. When required to heal I would heal like a champ once I had the appropriate gear. I just like Faithful more, I'm tanky as hell in it versus, ac virtuous. People think Faithful is better because of clutch heal and while it has an advantage, it's not true. They both have a sort of limit if you will. One is really good for healing when the group is together, the other is good wherever as long as you have the appropriate power and crit. I would like to see the virtuous tree's capstone buffed, but then again once you hit the appropriate levels, it really doesn't matter. I wold like to see the USELESS feats in virtuous gone. Why would I dare pick a feat that increases my healing if I'm only at 75% or 100% health. That's useless. Healing draws aggro regardless. What they need to do is buff the tree's useless feats. the ap nerf was needed, and the Virtuous tree really shines if you have the proper gear and play-style. I did an eToS run in both with GF and I can tell you they went just fine on both. No problems. Went a little slower, but we got it done. AND IT WAS FUN!!! I did eCC and we did good, died a couple of times on the boss but got to a good amount. Then 2 people lazily suggested we do it the easy way... We could've done it right had the group really tried, but what I've learned is a lot of players don't want to do anything other than play lazily. Some literally forgot they had to move out of red aoe's. Even though I saved them they forget their responsible for themselves and not some God-Mode button. Started ranting... The point is, the game is not as hard a you think. I'm a 2.6k dc and I bet you even if I was a couple of points lower I could've still gotten it done.
When I first came to this game, there was never a dependency on ap gain. Now it's like everyone wants haste because they got used to it. The HoT tree is not useless, trust me. When required to heal I would heal like a champ once I had the appropriate gear. I just like Faithful more, I'm tanky as hell in it versus, ac virtuous. People think Faithful is better because of clutch heal and while it has an advantage, it's not true. They both have a sort of limit if you will. One is really good for healing when the group is together, the other is good wherever as long as you have the appropriate power and crit. I would like to see the virtuous tree's capstone buffed, but then again once you hit the appropriate levels, it really doesn't matter. I wold like to see the USELESS feats in virtuous gone. Why would I dare pick a feat that increases my healing if I'm only at 75% or 100% health. That's useless. Healing draws aggro regardless. What they need to do is buff the tree's useless feats. the ap nerf was needed, and the Virtuous tree is good only if you have the proper gear and play-style. I did an eToS run in both with GF and I can tell you they went just fine on both. No problems. Went a little slower, but we got it done. AND IT WAS FUN!!! I did eCC and we did good, died a couple of times on the boss but got to a good amount. Then 2 people lazily suggested we do it the easy way... We could've done it right had the group really tried, but what I've learned is a lot of players don't want to do anything other than play lazily. Some literally forgot they had to move out of red aoe's. Even though I saved them they forget their responsible for themselves and not some God-Mode button. Started ranting... The point is, the game is not as hard a you think. I'm a 2.6k dc and I bet you even if I was a couple of points lower I could've still gotten it done.
The people got lazy when all of a sudden game enabled them to be like this. At the start of the game we had less gear, we had less power creep and still the dungeons were finished.
When a skill comes that makes the party basically immortal, than we have a "click" on human nature called laziness. If I can't die why should I try to dodge red? I won't it's simple. The truth is, we had a quite different game back in the days. Now the game is all about DPS and speed runs, no strat whatsoever just brute force forward to the end boss arena.
And to the @marnival I said I don't know anything about an OP, I do know a thing about GF though.
Please stop telling me that the class is wrecked because it can't go perma immortal. GF never did and it did just fine. I played with few OP's that never used the Divine Protector and still they did fine.
Paladin was designed to be overpowered from day one, now it's being toned down which was even requested by OP side of the game. It was expected just like Lol set nerf, we all know that both Lol and Divine protector was too much, so tell me - who's terribly surprised that it's happening c'mon...
It's not a question of one class of course, we have a lot of skills and skill interactions that makes some of the things stupid. For me personally, when I did my 1st run with AP DC I had no clue what's going on, I had my dailies (It was during the Dragonflight event) up almost all the time, hit one and AP bar was full in a blink of an eye - so I said WTF !?!?.
Dailies are dailies - yeah at least they should be, now we're spamming them like there's no tomorrow - and the list goes on... They should be a powerful/special use skills not something we can get in few seconds and holding for a long seconds.
Whatever will be said, Paladins were OP and this rework was long overdue.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I have a 2,7k heal OP ,that is my secondary toon ,and a 1,9k IL prot Op ,that i only run dread Ring lairs.
DPS of solo playing is a constant complaint of the OP community and it is a honest one.I think it can be be improved.How?
1)Rework Relentless Avenger
The "knock" or better Nuke to orbit knockback effect.I am surprised nobody mentioned that.
Please,remove the knockback effect of RA.make it prone,stun,or remove it altogether,at least from PVE
In its current form it is useless in parties cause it disperse mobs. Solo play?one of the same .You chase mobs after they are nuked into orbit.
RA is not compatible with a tank or a heal class,for PVE.Please rework/remove the knockback effect for PVE.
If some pvp OPs want to keep it,fine,just please,if it is possible turn the knockback effect for pve into :Stun ,or prone. Or remove it altogether from PVe and instead add a threat aoe cone (Like GFs LStrike).For prot OPs
Another option would be:make it a small aoe (3 target cap) and add a percentage of extra DR for any target hit. (mechanism exists,similar to Line Breaker Assualt for GF)
Another option: Make it small aoe (3 target cap) and improve % of healing for any target hit.this for healadin.
2)Rework Divine touch. In its current form it hits less that an attwill. i am serious . Buff it a little bit, please!
When I first came to this game, there was never a dependency on ap gain. Now it's like everyone wants haste because they got used to it. The HoT tree is not useless, trust me. When required to heal I would heal like a champ once I had the appropriate gear. I just like Faithful more, I'm tanky as hell in it versus, ac virtuous. People think Faithful is better because of clutch heal and while it has an advantage, it's not true. They both have a sort of limit if you will. One is really good for healing when the group is together, the other is good wherever as long as you have the appropriate power and crit. I would like to see the virtuous tree's capstone buffed, but then again once you hit the appropriate levels, it really doesn't matter. I wold like to see the USELESS feats in virtuous gone. Why would I dare pick a feat that increases my healing if I'm only at 75% or 100% health. That's useless. Healing draws aggro regardless. What they need to do is buff the tree's useless feats. the ap nerf was needed, and the Virtuous tree is good only if you have the proper gear and play-style. I did an eToS run in both with GF and I can tell you they went just fine on both. No problems. Went a little slower, but we got it done. AND IT WAS FUN!!! I did eCC and we did good, died a couple of times on the boss but got to a good amount. Then 2 people lazily suggested we do it the easy way... We could've done it right had the group really tried, but what I've learned is a lot of players don't want to do anything other than play lazily. Some literally forgot they had to move out of red aoe's. Even though I saved them they forget their responsible for themselves and not some God-Mode button. Started ranting... The point is, the game is not as hard a you think. I'm a 2.6k dc and I bet you even if I was a couple of points lower I could've still gotten it done.
The people got lazy when all of a sudden game enabled them to be like this. At the start of the game we had less gear, we had less power creep and still the dungeons were finished.
When a skill comes that makes the party basically immortal, than we have a "click" on human nature called laziness. If I can't die why should I try to dodge red? I won't it's simple. The truth is, we had a quite different game back in the days. Now the game is all about DPS and speed runs, no strat whatsoever just brute force forward to the end boss arena.
And to the @marnival I said I don't know anything about an OP, I do know a thing about GF though.
Please stop telling me that the class is wrecked because it can't go perma immortal. GF never did and it did just fine. I played with few OP's that never used the Divine Protector and still they did fine.
Paladin was designed to be overpowered from day one, now it's being toned down which was even requested by OP side of the game. It was expected just like Lol set nerf, we all know that both Lol and Divine protector was too much, so tell me - who's terribly surprised that it's happening c'mon...
It's not a question of one class of course, we have a lot of skills and skill interactions that makes some of the things stupid. For me personally, when I did my 1st run with AP DC I had no clue what's going on, I had my dailies (It was during the Dragonflight event) up almost all the time, hit one and AP bar was full in a blink of an eye - so I said WTF !?!?.
Dailies are dailies - yeah at least they should be, now we're spamming them like there's no tomorrow - and the list goes on... They should be a powerful/special use skills not something we can get in few seconds and holding for a long seconds.
Whatever will be said, Paladins were OP and this rework was long overdue.
Still don't get it I try to make it more clear for you.
Nerf perma bubble no problem, nerf the paladins ability to protect the party BIG problem.
You play Gf I strongly suggest you take a pal and go through what you both can add to a party doing a t2 dungeon in form of utility to the party.
Lets say I suggest your block is capped at 50% and only usable for 8 seconds every 30 sec, then lest add a nerf to your damage by 80% by removing all kinds of spike damage and while we are at it lets make KV a daily with a 6 sec duration and then come back with the same positive feedback to those changes.
The problem is not weather paladin can survive when tanking its why you should play the class and how you can compete toward the other classes in a group( you do realize that those that play paladin invested a lot of time and even rl money to be able to be useful).
You say the nerf is ok because bubble made it to simple for parties but you leave out where this change (they don't just nerf bubble they nerf just about everything that made paladin useful to protect the party then added a nerf to the already ridicules dps a pal has) leaves the paladin class in comparison to the other classes.
If you still dont realize why these changes will be game breaking to paladins when it comes to be desired in groups and able to compete with other classes for a place in a group I suggest you ask around instead of writing about changes to a class you most obviously know very little about.....
I have a question. When are you guys gonna make 3.0k/4.0k required iLvl Dungeons?? I see no absolute reason to even continue to gear my cleric up other than pvp. Give me a reason to really want to grind. I see no reason to even go past rank 9 enchantments. CN may be the only reason in the game and even then I can beat it with a good team. Why am I grinding to have more successful runs of THE SAME DUNGEONS when I can grind and build my character up to enter into new exclusive ones. Not just work on campaigns.. (So boring and shows a lack of imagination..) Also, about the power creep. With all this added stuff you guys put into the game to make it easier (mount, insignias, etc.) It feels like you might do what your about to do to the pally and completely screw us over. It seems like we'll be adding all these stats and then when everyone gets comfortable... Diminishing Returns will be re-introduced into the game HAMSTER everyone who worked on their perfect builds... It was wrong to let the Pally's go like this for so long and while fixing it was a very greatly needed thing, your doing it without compensation to those who invested. No new powers or real fixes. Idk why but Neverwinter does kinda have a way of doing this push pull thing to it's players. It's not really a community driven game.
If you still don't realize why these changes will be game breaking to paladins when it comes to be desired in groups and able to compete with other classes for a place in a group I suggest you ask around instead of writing about changes to a class you most obviously know very little about.....
I heard you on the 1st try...we both know who made the mess. And it was the dev's fault that OP was so powerful from the start. The game and the players got used to it and thus the shitstorm that we face now.
You do realize that it may (or even had) been made on purpose right? So the class is nerfed hard, what will the players do? either quit the game out of frustration (seem to be justified) or move the stuff to the other char and continue playing.
New char, new stuff you actually need to farm/obtain = buy which results in giving them money they, well...want?
Same was made with lol set, it was broken since it was introduced, reported and described gazilion of times, so easy to reproduce the bug - yet it remained for much longer than is should.
Don't take it personally I know how to be hit with the nerf hammer. Let's hope that if the changes were NOT implemented on the 1st try today, they will get tweaked to not totally destroy the class.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
DPS of solo playing is a constant complaint of the OP community and it is a honest one
Erm...why? You can pull a ton of mobs and can kill them without a scratch. Maybe you should level a heal dc to see what is less dps.
I find that my OP has a much much easier time soloing than my Virtuous DC. DC without damage is mostly a kite and kill race- Good luck if you miss your Daunting Light Cast. which at least with an OP i can reliably stun lock things and beat on them until they die. I have both- OP is easier than a non Debuff DC. If the changes take away some OP damage I'll be surprised/ Disappointed.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
It is worth noting that DC and paladin are the only 2 classes that you see reffered to by a single class mechanic (Bubble pally, haste DC). When a single mechanic in an entire class is used to refer to the entire classes functionality, it pretty much tells you the mechanic is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. You don't see anyone asking for a "conduit CW" or a "mighty leap GWF", rather, for other classes, people refer to much broader descriptions, not just a single skill.
changes are often good but when u work hard to get a build that also costs a lot in AD and other currencies,and ofcourse in the build itself (will need a respec token).all for good changes but many have to respec after this,now u change a build just like that and now people have a problem because they already spend their points in power and stats.Do these players get a free respec token for their paladins?,cause its not their change its yours.
I'm still surprised the OP nerfs are not changed in this iteration.
Even as a GF I worry their utility is nerfed too hard. The duration nerfs seem fine, but the 80% down to 50% and the 50% to 30% makes shield of faith seem useless, its like Knight's valor but a short daily with worse reduction.
If this decides to go live, atleast make circle of power work for everyone in it. that would solve alot of issues. The +30% damage and 25% DR along with aura of courage, flash of light would keep them competitive.
But still i think shield of faith needs to be upped a bit, either in duration or absorb. Or make absolution work on everyone? Something to give players a little safety.
It is worth noting that DC and paladin are the only 2 classes that you see reffered to by a single class mechanic (Bubble pally, haste DC). When a single mechanic in an entire class is used to refer to the entire classes functionality, it pretty much tells you the mechanic is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. You don't see anyone asking for a "conduit CW" or a "mighty leap GWF", rather, for other classes, people refer to much broader descriptions, not just a single skill.
Good point, but not entirely true, I have times when I ask if a GF is a tactician, or if a CW is renegade (or Icy Veins/instant freeze), yes those are feat trees, but still make up for a special role, also people tend to ask for fox HRs in certain cicumstances. And still if I call for an AP DC of GoH cleric I'm not always focused on the fact that it will fill AP but his whole tree, it is just the easiest way to describe it, as most of the people know this name. The main argument here comes from the fact that: GoH haste will work just as fine as a secondary path as your main - you can keep up the same buff as the rest of the path, but your tree will be focused on more skills adding it, not more you getting from it (but a single skill can keep it up all the time). OP has way less party defensive skills - 2x12.5% aura what requires other hugging the OP (and that is not a good thing to do around aoe swings without a red spot) and getting rid of some buff auras on the way - a non working aoe aggro - a highly delayed divine call and guard stance. Most of us do agree with the fact that those where simply overkills in the first place, just the new way of things hit it harder than they should be - full perma invulnerability is not a sane thing to have (nor perma stealth), and yeah 20 seconds is too much, but replacing it with a DR instead of the invulnerability would do a better job as you wouldn't need entirely different builds and gears or classes for the same job but still allowing other classes to shine as well - also allowing dungeon mechanics to be part of the game. But still, this is only my opinion.
I am not for any of the changes on Preview, yes OP is OP, haste is OP, LM is OP. But, these are the extreme end of the possible changes that could be made. And, GFs needing a buff? Look at all the posts showing they are PVP gods already, even more so than OPs and TRs. OP and CW at least need damage increases before these go live and GF encounters like ITF and AoD need nerfed or these changes do nothing for class balance.
Yes, they ask for buffs and nerfs from extremely different aspects - for example buffing requests are mainly coming from the ones having a PvE GF in their party on a run (some still do a decent job there, especially the well geared ones at 3k)- nerfing requests are coming from just about everyone who had a PvP GF on their opposing side. To be honest, it will be an issue if they can't separate effectiveness of skills and classes separately for those two cases.
Why can't the paladin's bubble just be reduced in PVP and left alone for PVE? That is the real solution to the problem. The nobody wants the Paladin's bubble to be reduced in PVE. In fact we need it for many instances in which a standard tank will just not do. Just change it for PVE so it is not impossible to take on a paladin in PVP and leave PVE alone!
I know that no one really cares.. but after running eToS on preview with ~2.4k ilvl characters (Prot OP, Virt DC and 3 DPS), there was very little change. In fact, I never once used Divine Protector... the DC did a bulk of the shielding. I just aggro'd things, kept my Temp HP maxed as best I could and let DPS do their job.
I really wish people would stop freaking out.
Yesterday I did test "bubbleless" run eToS. I asked party if it is not problem. All agreed, they were happy (not kidding) to get chance to learn avoid red zones . I had aura of prot, aura of wisdom, binding, templar wrath and circle of power (very nice, I got 30% more temp HP). With all of it I had 80% DR without sanctuary. To my surprise, it was one of my easiest runs. I did not avoid red zones and had no problem. I have justice pally with only 2300 gear. In the other hand, my DPS was very low (as allways), but I had no problem to survive. Before starting the fight I did binding oath, run to enemies, did templar and circle. I did sanctuary before first binding blast, but when i got full temp hp (about 330000), I simply let binding oath blows to my face without problem.
What exactly did you provide to your team with that setup? Sure you managed to stay alive but aside from a bit of DR and some AP gain you were likely dead weight. A GF in your place would have soaked up damage and greatly buffed DPS.
This is the issue, OP's will still be able to run stuff but they won't be a useful member of the team when you have to focus your powers on keeping yourself standing and not on contributing to your team in a meaningful way. If a OP can't keep the others in the team alive, can't provide decent DPS, can't heal, can't keep threat then who would want one in the team?
What did this OP do to make them a valuable member of the team? He increased the parties defense with Aura of Protection, he decreased the cooldowns of their powers with Aura of Wisdom, He aggro'd mobs and took the hits from the party so that they wouldn't die... and through that last item is the real value of a tank (OP or GF,) they get hit so the DPS doesn't, and as pointed out, it can be done without "bubble", it just is no longer mind-numbingly easy.
And one other thing... People playing DPS toons are everywhere in this game, healers/buffers are in short supply, but not nearly as limited as tanks, GFs and OPs combined. If you can aggro mobs and take the hits, you will be requested for parties regardless of a lack of Divine Protector. There are not enough GFs to cover all the demand... and while the roles will be reversed and OPs will be the 2nd choice, the lack of tanks overall will force parties to accept OPs without perma-bubble.
You will be forced to adapt and learn how to get aggro instead of relying on a single power, or a party may kick you for being useless; but they will also be kicking the DPS that dies all the time because they cant learn how to dodge out of the red.
kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Feedback: Empowered Divine Glow Empowered Divine Glow extends the buff duration only by 2 sec regardless of the number of stacks - tooltip states 2sec/stack.
Feedback: Healing Word Still does not grant Gift of Haste for the caster randomly.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Renegade CW and tactician GF are buffers, and would be requested in that regard. Their entire build would (likely) be tailored around a buffing role, not just based on a single defining feat or power. The whole package still matters.
also people tend to ask for fox HRs in certain cicumstances
Considering Fox's Cunning/Fox Shift is a universal encounter power, there is not a ranger in existence who is incapable of slotting it. Maybe if you haven't taken it, but... that would be a strong indicator that you're probably terrible at your class.
DPS of solo playing is a constant complaint of the OP community and it is a honest one
Erm...why? You can pull a ton of mobs and can kill them without a scratch. Maybe you should level a heal dc to see what is less dps.
DPS is poor in most cases for all the support classes... OP, DC, and GF... They add a lot to a party for dungeons, but the problem is solo play. While their defense (or self-healing) makes them very hard to kill, the lack of DPS in these classes means that solo play takes a lot longer. It can be mind numbingly slow to do dailies and level the support classes.
While GFs and DCs have paragon paths/feats for more DPS which helps soloing, They still do not have the damage amounts as a DPS class and soloing is still slower. Also, when you focus these classes on DPS, you limit their usefulness to a party.
And as for leveling my DC... I leveled my DC (and GF) prior to mod2... There was no DPS DC at the time (prior to both the DC and GF's rework.) There also were not any mulhorand weapons or any leveling gear at the time. Believe me, it was not fun to level either (and DC was slighlty easier to level than GF back then, IMO) By comparison, leveling an OP was easy in mod6.
What did this OP do to make them a valuable member of the team? He increased the parties defense with Aura of Protection, he decreased the cooldowns of their powers with Aura of Wisdom, He aggro'd mobs and took the hits from the party so that they wouldn't die... and through that last item is the real value of a tank (OP or GF,) they get hit so the DPS doesn't, and as pointed out, it can be done without "bubble", it just is no longer mind-numbingly easy.
And one other thing... People playing DPS toons are everywhere in this game, healers/buffers are in short supply, but not nearly as limited as tanks, GFs and OPs combined. If you can aggro mobs and take the hits, you will be requested for parties regardless of a lack of Divine Protector. There are not enough GFs to cover all the demand... and while the roles will be reversed and OPs will be the 2nd choice, the lack of tanks overall will force parties to accept OPs without perma-bubble.
You will be forced to adapt and learn how to get aggro instead of relying on a single power, or a party may kick you for being useless; but they will also be kicking the DPS that dies all the time because they cant learn how to dodge out of the red.
I have both a OP and a GF comparably geared and play both regularly. While you are correct that an OP can buff in various ways, a GF just does a better job in almost every respect. Don't get me started on OP's maintaining aggro, again the GF has the top spot on that. The only area my OP beats my GF is on DPS but its not by much. I think we all agree that the OP needs to be reworked and the bubble adjusted (or scrapped and replaced with a new useful daily) but the correct way is not to burn their main selling point without putting something equally valuable to a team in its place. As it stands the OP will turn out to be just a b-list GF with no real USP.
If this decides to go live, atleast make circle of power work for everyone in it. that would solve alot of issues. The +30% damage and 25% DR along with aura of courage, flash of light would keep them competitive.
Hmm yes, but it still seems to be a bit useless. Why? Range players and melee DPS have to stay in same spot as OP - facetank boss like Orcus? Or facetank SH dragon? Ofc pally can cast it for them and just turn boss aggro to another side. But then he losing one encounter and not get profit from it against high damage dealers like Orcus. 2 encounters is not enough to cast shield of faith (which is HAMSTER, 30% damage reduction daily vs 50% from kv, perma encounter).
It is worth noting that DC and paladin are the only 2 classes that you see reffered to by a single class mechanic (Bubble pally, haste DC). When a single mechanic in an entire class is used to refer to the entire classes functionality, it pretty much tells you the mechanic is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. You don't see anyone asking for a "conduit CW" or a "mighty leap GWF", rather, for other classes, people refer to much broader descriptions, not just a single skill.
Ok so Hr known for daze/root(cc) pretty much tells that Hr needs to be nerfed. First of all Dc has no single class mechanics they have AP (have less now) but they are also known for debuff heal and protection.
If a class only have 1 option to play or only 1 ability that makes it worth play it pretty much tells you that it need to be nerfed, yea sure OR that maybe a rework or slight tuning with compensating other lacking areas is a better idea.
It is worth noting that DC and paladin are the only 2 classes that you see reffered to by a single class mechanic (Bubble pally, haste DC). When a single mechanic in an entire class is used to refer to the entire classes functionality, it pretty much tells you the mechanic is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. You don't see anyone asking for a "conduit CW" or a "mighty leap GWF", rather, for other classes, people refer to much broader descriptions, not just a single skill.
Sure it needs to be nerfed But It doesn't meen to kill the class or the fun or the ability all together by pulling a number out the smoke clouds and ticking off everyone that's not being a brown-nosing adventurer!!!
All the people complaining about the nerf to the bubble deserves a slap on the hand. I mean seriously when 9/10 paladins are exactly the same with the exact same build, making a group of people invincable to all damage for such a long time is ridiculous.
No, this only shows that this is exactly what the customers what - not some stupid "challenge" for no loot.
6 Seconds is a good set time to have on the bubbles duration so that it can be used intelligently, instead of a derp spam every second.
6 seconds are less than a minor lag spike, the perma bubble required either a good setup group or a seriously BiS pally, and this people still can do their dungeons easily, it's the weaker parties that are in trouble now. Additional, the latency makes the party bubbleless often enough for one or two seconds, and quite often people die then - applied to the new micro-bubble this means that e.g. Orcus green balls will regulary kill someone , because a lat ridden pally can't bubble away just in case, but when he sees the balls coming, they will probably already have killed some party member.
6 seconds is total BS and is unacceptable, uncalled for and totally needs rethinking!! if you think 6 seconds is good then you know nothing of how paladins like their game play and bubble, it meens being able to protect properly, I just now got my 4th power point into Divine protector AFTER 6 MONTH of Trying to get a power point, REALLY, now you want to RUIN the class power entirely, this is why a lot of folks may not spend anymore cash on this for long while if they go threw with a patch like this, we work hard to get something that we want and then someone with a thought comes along cries and destroys it all together.
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kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
... Additional, the latency makes the party bubbleless often enough for one or two seconds, and quite often people die then - applied to the new micro-bubble this means that e.g. Orcus green balls will regulary kill someone , because a lat ridden pally can't bubble away just in case, but when he sees the balls coming, they will probably already have killed some party member.
Cast bubble just before Orcus casts at the end of chanting. That's what and how the bubble should be used not as a non-stop "don't care w/ anything except DPSing" skill. Just to let you know, GFs can't save anyone who is not prepared and dodging green balls at orcus and some lag means GF is also dead. Many-many players don't prepare/dodge b/c they have never had to do it anywhere just b/c of perma bubble. It had to go.
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game - Human/real life - ???
OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
At the start of the game we had less gear, we had less power creep and still the dungeons were finished.
When a skill comes that makes the party basically immortal, than we have a "click" on human nature called laziness. If I can't die why should I try to dodge red? I won't it's simple.
The truth is, we had a quite different game back in the days. Now the game is all about DPS and speed runs, no strat whatsoever just brute force forward to the end boss arena.
And to the @marnival I said I don't know anything about an OP, I do know a thing about GF though.
Please stop telling me that the class is wrecked because it can't go perma immortal. GF never did and it did just fine. I played with few OP's that never used the Divine Protector and still they did fine.
Paladin was designed to be overpowered from day one, now it's being toned down which was even requested by OP side of the game. It was expected just like Lol set nerf, we all know that both Lol and Divine protector was too much, so tell me - who's terribly surprised that it's happening c'mon...
It's not a question of one class of course, we have a lot of skills and skill interactions that makes some of the things stupid. For me personally, when I did my 1st run with AP DC I had no clue what's going on, I had my dailies (It was during the Dragonflight event) up almost all the time, hit one and AP bar was full in a blink of an eye - so I said WTF !?!?.
Dailies are dailies - yeah at least they should be, now we're spamming them like there's no tomorrow - and the list goes on...
They should be a powerful/special use skills not something we can get in few seconds and holding for a long seconds.
Whatever will be said, Paladins were OP and this rework was long overdue.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
DPS of solo playing is a constant complaint of the OP community and it is a honest one.I think it can be be improved.How?
1)Rework Relentless Avenger
The "knock" or better Nuke to orbit knockback effect.I am surprised nobody mentioned that.
Please,remove the knockback effect of RA.make it prone,stun,or remove it altogether,at least from PVE
In its current form it is useless in parties cause it disperse mobs.
Solo play?one of the same .You chase mobs after they are nuked into orbit.
RA is not compatible with a tank or a heal class,for PVE.Please rework/remove the knockback effect for PVE.
If some pvp OPs want to keep it,fine,just please,if it is possible turn the knockback effect for pve into :Stun ,or prone.
Or remove it altogether from PVe and instead add a threat aoe cone (Like GFs LStrike).For prot OPs
Another option would be:make it a small aoe (3 target cap) and add a percentage of extra DR for any target hit.
(mechanism exists,similar to Line Breaker Assualt for GF)
Another option: Make it small aoe (3 target cap) and improve % of healing for any target hit.this for healadin.
2)Rework Divine touch.
In its current form it hits less that an attwill.
Buff it a little bit, please!
Nerf perma bubble no problem, nerf the paladins ability to protect the party BIG problem.
You play Gf I strongly suggest you take a pal and go through what you both can add to a party doing a t2 dungeon in form of utility to the party.
Lets say I suggest your block is capped at 50% and only usable for 8 seconds every 30 sec, then lest add a nerf to your damage by 80% by removing all kinds of spike damage and while we are at it lets make KV a daily with a 6 sec duration and then come back with the same positive feedback to those changes.
The problem is not weather paladin can survive when tanking its why you should play the class and how you can compete toward the other classes in a group( you do realize that those that play paladin invested a lot of time and even rl money to be able to be useful).
You say the nerf is ok because bubble made it to simple for parties but you leave out where this change (they don't just nerf bubble they nerf just about everything that made paladin useful to protect the party then added a nerf to the already ridicules dps a pal has) leaves the paladin class in comparison to the other classes.
If you still dont realize why these changes will be game breaking to paladins when it comes to be desired in groups and able to compete with other classes for a place in a group I suggest you ask around instead of writing about changes to a class you most obviously know very little about.....
I heard you on the 1st try...we both know who made the mess. And it was the dev's fault that OP was so powerful from the start. The game and the players got used to it and thus the shitstorm that we face now.
You do realize that it may (or even had) been made on purpose right? So the class is nerfed hard, what will the players do? either quit the game out of frustration (seem to be justified) or move the stuff to the other char and continue playing.
New char, new stuff you actually need to farm/obtain = buy which results in giving them money they, well...want?
Same was made with lol set, it was broken since it was introduced, reported and described gazilion of times, so easy to reproduce the bug - yet it remained for much longer than is should.
Don't take it personally I know how to be hit with the nerf hammer. Let's hope that if the changes were NOT implemented on the 1st try today, they will get tweaked to not totally destroy the class.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
Even as a GF I worry their utility is nerfed too hard. The duration nerfs seem fine, but the 80% down to 50% and the 50% to 30% makes shield of faith seem useless, its like Knight's valor but a short daily with worse reduction.
If this decides to go live, atleast make circle of power work for everyone in it. that would solve alot of issues. The +30% damage and 25% DR along with aura of courage, flash of light would keep them competitive.
But still i think shield of faith needs to be upped a bit, either in duration or absorb. Or make absolution work on everyone? Something to give players a little safety.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
GoH haste will work just as fine as a secondary path as your main - you can keep up the same buff as the rest of the path, but your tree will be focused on more skills adding it, not more you getting from it (but a single skill can keep it up all the time).
OP has way less party defensive skills - 2x12.5% aura what requires other hugging the OP (and that is not a good thing to do around aoe swings without a red spot) and getting rid of some buff auras on the way - a non working aoe aggro - a highly delayed divine call and guard stance.
Most of us do agree with the fact that those where simply overkills in the first place, just the new way of things hit it harder than they should be - full perma invulnerability is not a sane thing to have (nor perma stealth), and yeah 20 seconds is too much, but replacing it with a DR instead of the invulnerability would do a better job as you wouldn't need entirely different builds and gears or classes for the same job but still allowing other classes to shine as well - also allowing dungeon mechanics to be part of the game. But still, this is only my opinion. Yes, they ask for buffs and nerfs from extremely different aspects - for example buffing requests are mainly coming from the ones having a PvE GF in their party on a run (some still do a decent job there, especially the well geared ones at 3k)- nerfing requests are coming from just about everyone who had a PvP GF on their opposing side.
To be honest, it will be an issue if they can't separate effectiveness of skills and classes separately for those two cases.
And one other thing... People playing DPS toons are everywhere in this game, healers/buffers are in short supply, but not nearly as limited as tanks, GFs and OPs combined. If you can aggro mobs and take the hits, you will be requested for parties regardless of a lack of Divine Protector. There are not enough GFs to cover all the demand... and while the roles will be reversed and OPs will be the 2nd choice, the lack of tanks overall will force parties to accept OPs without perma-bubble.
You will be forced to adapt and learn how to get aggro instead of relying on a single power, or a party may kick you for being useless; but they will also be kicking the DPS that dies all the time because they cant learn how to dodge out of the red.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
Empowered Divine Glow extends the buff duration only by 2 sec regardless of the number of stacks - tooltip states 2sec/stack.
Feedback: Healing Word
Still does not grant Gift of Haste for the caster randomly.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
While GFs and DCs have paragon paths/feats for more DPS which helps soloing, They still do not have the damage amounts as a DPS class and soloing is still slower. Also, when you focus these classes on DPS, you limit their usefulness to a party.
And as for leveling my DC... I leveled my DC (and GF) prior to mod2... There was no DPS DC at the time (prior to both the DC and GF's rework.) There also were not any mulhorand weapons or any leveling gear at the time. Believe me, it was not fun to level either (and DC was slighlty easier to level than GF back then, IMO) By comparison, leveling an OP was easy in mod6.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
First of all Dc has no single class mechanics they have AP (have less now) but they are also known for debuff heal and protection.
If a class only have 1 option to play or only 1 ability that makes it worth play it pretty much tells you that it need to be nerfed, yea sure OR that maybe a rework or slight tuning with compensating other lacking areas is a better idea.
Logic runs strong in you padawan.......
Additional, the latency makes the party bubbleless often enough for one or two seconds, and quite often people die then - applied to the new micro-bubble this means that e.g. Orcus green balls will regulary kill someone , because a lat ridden pally can't bubble away just in case, but when he sees the balls coming, they will probably already have killed some party member.
6 seconds is total BS and is unacceptable, uncalled for and totally needs rethinking!! if you think 6 seconds is good then you know nothing of how paladins like their game play and bubble, it meens being able to protect properly, I just now got my 4th power point into Divine protector AFTER 6 MONTH of Trying to get a power point, REALLY, now you want to RUIN the class power entirely, this is why a lot of folks may not spend anymore cash on this for long while if they go threw with a patch like this, we work hard to get something that we want and then someone with a thought comes along cries and destroys it all together.