IMHO, as more an more players start hitting the top 4k level, maybe just maybe, competition will resume. Really how many 4k players are there really? Few. It would seem at this point, that PvP is end game content.
@morenthar i honestly never have seen a considerable number of trs complaining even in their darkest moment. If anything all i keep seeing are 1) gwfs 2) cws and i m trying to do my part as a HR
I did say "a few specific TRs ." There is one in particular that just couldn't get over it and was telling me to "go die" and all sorts of nasty things.
The next time I ran into him, this was after I stopped using Drains, I slotted the Drains just to harass him. I have no problem admitting that.
The only reason I am so active on this topic is the fact that almost all of the complainers are highly geared. Makes me laugh at those that say drains are a way for low-skilled players to kill higher skilled players. As if that Trans Negation, Trans Fey and full compliment of R12 enchantments aren't helping them annihilate PUGs.
Like I said, I don't use them anymore. If they go away next week I won't really know the difference. I'm just sick of self-entitled players claiming they are victims when they have "victimized" so many other in the past.
you wont be judged by me for sure, i agree with you. Its sad to see some pvpers starting to cry when their peeps are too busy pvping to bring their sh ahead. The one harrassing you here yesterday should remember he used to run a trickster with bilethorn when shadow demise was stacking or bringing in party a hr when split the sky used to reset everyone's cooldowns. the game is full of bs, we either complain for months and nothing change or get used to it. Once some BS are considered allowed, everything is allowed. i just have some problems with ambush rings but in this moment i think i should just accept those too.
Yep, I see fewer players use the broken rings and drains than before. In higher stakes environments (like SH Siege) then anything goes, but in smaller matchups in Dom, the people who use broken rings or drains stick out like a sore thumb.
I admit, I do use the ambush ring when I encounter other players using it, or when I'm in an unequal team match-up and just want to cap the minimum 400 points. I only notice other people using drains when my wards run out. Really, it isn't satisfying to me to use ambush rings to defeat other players, and if I die without wearing an ambush ring (in a relatively equal match-up), then I at least die with some dignity!
Yep, I see fewer players use the broken rings and drains than before. In higher stakes environments (like SH Siege) then anything goes, but in smaller matchups in Dom, the people who use broken rings or drains stick out like a sore thumb.
I admit, I do use the ambush ring when I encounter other players using it, or when I'm in an unequal team match-up and just want to cap the minimum 400 points. I only notice other people using drains when my wards run out. Really, it isn't satisfying to me to use ambush rings to defeat other players, and if I die without wearing an ambush ring (in a relatively equal match-up), then I at least die with some dignity!
in the end you just lose. I m exactly the kind of player you are, you would love and many did to fight against me but if i kept thinking that way i would still running a perfect soulforged, bilethorn TR WITHOUT GLYPHS and cleric artifact... after months if not years, cleric artifact is the same, glyphs are the same, negation/elven battle are the same, feytouch is the same, paladins are ok, 16k sh boons are ok, 4k mounts??? legit, being 2 shot-ed by gfs is ok...well you now what? the list end here for me, everything is ok and lets call it a day. sadly, i m like i am and cant do much about it, if i do 1 pvp a day is just for conqueror shards. am i using drains? most of the times, am i using ambush rings? i should probably start since it s going to stay this way for years and years
I have yet to see these BiS guys strip themselves of their T.Fey, T.Neg and cool toys when they face a 2k team. They keep everything, and stomp everything. But lately they have the balls to act offended if they see a 2k toon using a stealth ring.
Quite hypocritical.
Yeah, sometimes you have to let go and use the stuff. I do it only when it's not gamebreaking. Such as a 2k HR non-permarooter using a stealth ring. But it's priceless when these BiS PvP stompers act as if 2k toons using the new rings are the bad guys, and tell other players to do not PvP until they get to 4k iLvL.
It's one misconception that has been in PvP since ages: it's a fault in the system that allows you, 4k BiS guys, to stomp players with half your gear. You shouldn't even see them. You are indeed abusing an unfair matchmaking system here. You are the bad guys, the ones who should be ashamed when you bully low geared toons. And you, and all your (ab)using overperforming builds and items, are the ones to blame if PvP is this empty. Cause the system is flawed, but the ones who exploited it to the bone for your personal gain, are you BiS PvP guilds and guys, in 99% of the cases, with some rare exceptions.
It's not the normal player that must be blamed for not being a 4k iLvL maxed toon (1% of the population). It's you D-bags who must be blamed when you bully or disrespect another player just because he is not as geared as you, and the game gives you the undeserved chance to stomp him instead of fighting another BiS toon.
And the devs should wake up and rabuild a PvP system that actually punishes D-bags, instead of encouraging and rewarding them.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
nice to see pando so passionate
there were a times, where i was probably only one who bashing pvp guilds premades here daily. nice to see seed was spread ))
there were a times, where i was probably only one who bashing pvp guilds premades here daily. nice to see seed was spread ))
I do so when i see no sign of respect for other players. There are BiS guys who are actually good guys. The ones i'm talking about are the elitist ones, the ones who act as if PvP is their "thing", something that only geared players should enjoy. While it's not like that. At all. They are the ones exploiting the flaws of PvP matchmaking system to stomp less geared players.
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architect40Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 20Arc User
Why should TRs be the only trolls in pvp? Every class should be able to be untargetable and invincible when targetable.
Pando speaks the truth. Congratulations you have no one to play against losers. Guess theyll be sitting in queue with owlbear cub companions waiting for siege to pop while hunting down 2k noobs trying to farm black ice. Pretty much all they have left. A fitting end i think. And dont even try to blame cryptic. Cryptic didnt create you.
You have to be abit crazy to get to the end game gear (or just exploit), what the average players forget is that while they are spending more time on the forums than actually playing, meanwhile those cheesy players are ALWAYS playing, they never even once show their face on the forums, they will never read your threads, they don't care about what most of you have to say, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.
Dude most of the 1000+ post forum warriors are the same douches. Like @metalldjt. So yeah they come to the forums. Theyre not always playing, for example, its Friday night and there were 3 instances of dom a couple hours ago. A joke. And the reason they still do it after being excoriated on the forums is because they actually think theyre good. Its that sick.
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I'd like to see drains stripped or modified, but I accept that they are part of the game. Whether you like it or not, they aren't going away.
I don't use ambush or cowardice rings, etc., but actually think they make the game more interesting. You wind up with new situations to deal with-knocks some of the dust off the game.
Interesting to check back and see how a post on the topic of 'self regulation' is being interpreted by different people. So far, I'm seeing 3 camps:
The game provides them so I'm going to use them
I only use them when everyone else uses them
I don't like them so I'll do my best to succeed without them
Remember guys, I never said they were an exploit; just that as a community, we have an opportunity to say 'that's lame, I'm not going to do it'.
Also interesting to see that drains got lumped into the discussion, though I think I feel a little different about them.
We've been saying that drains are lame since the very moment they were introduced. Most PvPers still use them. Devs didn't touch drains. I'm still forced to slot wards to avoid permasucked stamina and AP drain.
Self-regulation in PvP? You've got to be kidding. There's no such thing. At least not in NW. The only embarrassing thing in PvP is losing. Sure, there are honorable people in PvP, but how often does one run into one of those rare specimen? It's all about the win and the ego. Generally the attitude can be summed up into this: "If I have what you don't have, that's your problem. You entered the match knowing that others might be better than you, so you have no right to complain. YOU willingly came here being the weakest link. Suck it up dude!" or something similar in less family-friendly language. Very encouraging for a new player...
Some people do self-regulate. No matter what kind of language they put up with. And as long as there are such people, everything else is simply an excuse.
Hence, in reality, not many people even in this forum's got any right to be complaining about balance or broken stuff, since they've all had the opportunity to refuse it and try to keep the fighting "clean" as possible.
Instead, all you 'vets' were so busy frickin' exploiting the latest batch of bugs and brokn OP shi*, that none of you really cared to think about what the consequences would be like. I've been frickin' hounding and bothering people about this very situation since mod5 (if anyone actually cares to remember) on these forums, warning about the impending doom all throughout the many mods, starting with the obvious implications of Sigil of Divine and where it would ultimately lead -- which is exactly what happened in this game in the exact manner I've described.
As far as I'm concerned, nobody listened to me back then, even when there wern't this much broken and imbalanced stuff being proliferated like this. It was simply a matter of acknowledging broken shi* at its face value, and agreeing to a simplest principle to not use it in PvP.
Impossible? Most PvP communities in most games all have their 'inner demons' in one way or another, and many of them are self regulated by the community. The respected members of those communities EARN their respect through example. That's why they're respected in the first place. No, they cannot stop individual jacka$$es from using those stuff, but they've at least got the common sense to try and form a solid consensus that using such a thing is a shameful display, and would be promptly boycotted in high-level PvP bouts and matches. Does it work? Not always. But sometimes it does.
Unfortunately, you vets in NW didn't even try. Were always making up excuses everytime they were caught using broken shi* -- so its not surprising everyone in this community at the "high levels" think self-regulation is nothing but self-gimping.
Simply put, that's the "level" you people are at. I've mentioned it before and I gladly mention it again. The devs started this mess by making broken stuff... but they didn't exactly force us to use it. In the end, people started using it without shame, and just stopped caring about whether its an act to be criticized or not.
You've brought the end of PvP upon yourselves. Every single one of you.
So frankly speaking, none of you who currently use these broken stuff have any right to complain about the pis$-poor state the PvP is in, or about 'balance', because you're actually part of the problem. When you vets start to acutally have your conscience and sense of shame working again, then we can really start to talk about how we can make things better.
Otherwise, keep making excuses until the PvP goes into a coma.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
We can hope.
the game is full of bs, we either complain for months and nothing change or get used to it.
Once some BS are considered allowed, everything is allowed.
i just have some problems with ambush rings but in this moment i think i should just accept those too.
Yep, I see fewer players use the broken rings and drains than before. In higher stakes environments (like SH Siege) then anything goes, but in smaller matchups in Dom, the people who use broken rings or drains stick out like a sore thumb.
I admit, I do use the ambush ring when I encounter other players using it, or when I'm in an unequal team match-up and just want to cap the minimum 400 points. I only notice other people using drains when my wards run out. Really, it isn't satisfying to me to use ambush rings to defeat other players, and if I die without wearing an ambush ring (in a relatively equal match-up), then I at least die with some dignity!
I m exactly the kind of player you are, you would love and many did to fight against me but if i kept thinking that way i would still running a perfect soulforged, bilethorn TR WITHOUT GLYPHS and cleric artifact...
after months if not years, cleric artifact is the same, glyphs are the same, negation/elven battle are the same, feytouch is the same, paladins are ok, 16k sh boons are ok, 4k mounts??? legit, being 2 shot-ed by gfs is ok...well you now what? the list end here for me, everything is ok and lets call it a day.
sadly, i m like i am and cant do much about it, if i do 1 pvp a day is just for conqueror shards.
am i using drains? most of the times, am i using ambush rings? i should probably start since it s going to stay this way for years and years
Quite hypocritical.
Yeah, sometimes you have to let go and use the stuff. I do it only when it's not gamebreaking. Such as a 2k HR non-permarooter using a stealth ring. But it's priceless when these BiS PvP stompers act as if 2k toons using the new rings are the bad guys, and tell other players to do not PvP until they get to 4k iLvL.
It's one misconception that has been in PvP since ages: it's a fault in the system that allows you, 4k BiS guys, to stomp players with half your gear. You shouldn't even see them. You are indeed abusing an unfair matchmaking system here. You are the bad guys, the ones who should be ashamed when you bully low geared toons. And you, and all your (ab)using overperforming builds and items, are the ones to blame if PvP is this empty. Cause the system is flawed, but the ones who exploited it to the bone for your personal gain, are you BiS PvP guilds and guys, in 99% of the cases, with some rare exceptions.
It's not the normal player that must be blamed for not being a 4k iLvL maxed toon (1% of the population).
It's you D-bags who must be blamed when you bully or disrespect another player just because he is not as geared as you, and the game gives you the undeserved chance to stomp him instead of fighting another BiS toon.
And the devs should wake up and rabuild a PvP system that actually punishes D-bags, instead of encouraging and rewarding them.
there were a times, where i was probably only one who bashing pvp guilds premades here daily. nice to see seed was spread ))
I don't use ambush or cowardice rings, etc., but actually think they make the game more interesting. You wind up with new situations to deal with-knocks some of the dust off the game.
- The game provides them so I'm going to use them
- I only use them when everyone else uses them
- I don't like them so I'll do my best to succeed without them
Remember guys, I never said they were an exploit; just that as a community, we have an opportunity to say 'that's lame, I'm not going to do it'.Also interesting to see that drains got lumped into the discussion, though I think I feel a little different about them.
Most PvPers still use them.
Devs didn't touch drains.
I'm still forced to slot wards to avoid permasucked stamina and AP drain.
Hence, in reality, not many people even in this forum's got any right to be complaining about balance or broken stuff, since they've all had the opportunity to refuse it and try to keep the fighting "clean" as possible.
Instead, all you 'vets' were so busy frickin' exploiting the latest batch of bugs and brokn OP shi*, that none of you really cared to think about what the consequences would be like. I've been frickin' hounding and bothering people about this very situation since mod5 (if anyone actually cares to remember) on these forums, warning about the impending doom all throughout the many mods, starting with the obvious implications of Sigil of Divine and where it would ultimately lead -- which is exactly what happened in this game in the exact manner I've described.
As far as I'm concerned, nobody listened to me back then, even when there wern't this much broken and imbalanced stuff being proliferated like this. It was simply a matter of acknowledging broken shi* at its face value, and agreeing to a simplest principle to not use it in PvP.
Impossible? Most PvP communities in most games all have their 'inner demons' in one way or another, and many of them are self regulated by the community. The respected members of those communities EARN their respect through example. That's why they're respected in the first place. No, they cannot stop individual jacka$$es from using those stuff, but they've at least got the common sense to try and form a solid consensus that using such a thing is a shameful display, and would be promptly boycotted in high-level PvP bouts and matches. Does it work? Not always. But sometimes it does.
Unfortunately, you vets in NW didn't even try. Were always making up excuses everytime they were caught using broken shi* -- so its not surprising everyone in this community at the "high levels" think self-regulation is nothing but self-gimping.
Simply put, that's the "level" you people are at. I've mentioned it before and I gladly mention it again. The devs started this mess by making broken stuff... but they didn't exactly force us to use it. In the end, people started using it without shame, and just stopped caring about whether its an act to be criticized or not.
You've brought the end of PvP upon yourselves. Every single one of you.
So frankly speaking, none of you who currently use these broken stuff have any right to complain about the pis$-poor state the PvP is in, or about 'balance', because you're actually part of the problem. When you vets start to acutally have your conscience and sense of shame working again, then we can really start to talk about how we can make things better.
Otherwise, keep making excuses until the PvP goes into a coma.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'