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Will embarrassment ever drive behavior changes in PvP?
rschrager
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 59 Arc User
"Everyone" hates cowardice rings and stealth rings - there are 1000 posts here and in other places that attest to that, but until recently, it almost seemed that the number of times I'd encounter them in Dom or GG PvP was slowly going down, for no other reason than that the people who used them felt like idiots. Yes, there are exceptions - like entire guild groups wearing them, which makes you think they all ground thru hundreds of demonic runs together until everyone had a shiny rank 4 version of whatever brand of stupidity appealed to them, but still, when you realize that the initial thrill seemed to be gone, and the more serious PvPers had moved on, it just seems... and this obviously isn't backed by an elaborate double blind survey, it's just a gut feeling - that I wasn't seeing as many of them as I did soon after they were introduced.
Still... there are plenty of people who continue to wear them. Why? Sure, people who don't wear them will say 'because that's the only way they can compete', but does pride not play any role at all in your decision? The knowledge that when people encounter you during a match they're mocking you openly obviously isn't enough, but isn't there a tiny voice inside you that says 'I don't like having to rely on a lame-HAMSTER crutch like this, I really do want to be good enough to compete using skill and strategy alone' that makes you think, just for a second that it's time to let them die?
Yeah yeah... self-regulation of stupidity is obviously a pipe dream - that's what natural selection is for, but still...
Bleh. Neverwinter mind.
Still... there are plenty of people who continue to wear them. Why? Sure, people who don't wear them will say 'because that's the only way they can compete', but does pride not play any role at all in your decision? The knowledge that when people encounter you during a match they're mocking you openly obviously isn't enough, but isn't there a tiny voice inside you that says 'I don't like having to rely on a lame-HAMSTER crutch like this, I really do want to be good enough to compete using skill and strategy alone' that makes you think, just for a second that it's time to let them die?
Yeah yeah... self-regulation of stupidity is obviously a pipe dream - that's what natural selection is for, but still...
Bleh. Never
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there should be embarassment on developers side finally across a board, genre need some impulse
So let me get this straight...
I play an HR main, and am not in one of the major PvP guilds, yet I love to PvP. I'm in there most every day at least two or three times, and not just for the paltry AD. Maybe 20 times on a weekend. I'm not afraid to PuG into Dom and get wrecked by a pre-made, because I enjoy the combat and I don't cry and whine about imbalance, exploits etc. I take it as it is. Our guild hall is almost at 9 and (thanks to great guild leadership) we have three SH boons which just might be considered significantly relevant to anything happening in PvP, so I don't have the Mega-LS, Uber-Power, and Hyper-ArPen boons that many hardcore PvPers have been running around with for months. And it has been months
For a year, while playing a notoriously squishy class and trying continually and diligently to get better at it (while always playing fairly, if poorly at times), I have been continually followed around in Dom by well-geared perma-stealth TRs who one-shot me at will if my deflect does not catch some of their daily. Strong high-IL CWs with the Icy Knife have been able to wreck me completely until this fall when my gearing finally gave me some resistance to it. And now, new development on the scene...even being pretty well-geared (3.7K IL, PvP armor and typically running at around 115K HP) I can be locked down and one-shotted by a GF in PvP.
Nature of the beast folks. I get it. Some hate my roots and stuns (although they barely affect most high-level players now)...I hate a TR sneaking up unseen, a CW who can repel me so that I can't even set foot on a node before they whittle me down, and a GF who one-shots me or a GWF who hits like a gorilla on steroids. Oh yeah...and that Cleric who just slides around on a node while their HP bar stays full despite 3 people pounding away on them. But they all earned that. Or they bought it. Doesn't matter to me. It is what exists in the arena, and I gladly deal (even when frustrated) with it so that I can play my game. Emphasis on "my".
But now that I have ground eDemo since the beginning of this (IMHO, pretty lame) new module, and finally got me a +4 Ambush Ring, I am not supposed to use it in PvP because of some "moral code" among those who play high-level PvP? Seriously? When did this code of moral conduct arise in PvP, because I have been at this for well over a year. Except in a couple of specific manifestations (like letting people who are getting stomped cap for points), I see very little of a real "moral code" in PvP.
So according to the OP, I am to take this ring i worked very hard for and salvage it or place it in the bank for PvE use only, then "self-regulate my stupidity" and deny myself the use of the "lame-*** crutch" which allows my underpowered HR to survive? (and everyone knows that unless over 4K IL, we HRs are strikers with no real DPS...we have to stunlock EVERYTHING just to have a fighting chance)
So here's what I say to the OP and his/her premise. Nuts.
Despite the statements of the OP in this thread, I will continue to wear the ring which I worked so hard for, and gave up a two-slot ring and better stats to wear. I will use it not to gain some ridiculous advantage, but to help me survive a little better against the over-powered premades that run amok in Domination these days (which is the only place I can go anymore, since GG is so dead). Yes, OP...I have pride. I am proud tht I worked for and got the ring. I am proud that I have had my rear-end handed to me repeatedly for over a year now so that I can compete even at a mediocre level in this mess/mishmash/fiasco that NW PvP has become. So I will wear my "shiny rank 4 version of whatever brand of stupidity" I have chosen, and I will hope that I find you standing idly on a node, believing that you will cap that thing unmolested, until my first arrow pierces your armor. Because you never saw me coming.
The arrogance in the very concept and basic premise put forth in the beginning of this thread is so incredibly elitist and myopic, that I cannot believe the OP was even able to put it out there.
Wow. Just wow.
And cheers to morenthar for his response(s). Spot on. Thanks god there are a few folks left in this game who are decent and can think clearly and objectively.
Lot´s of player run this ring, I also put it on in rare situations like facing a TR that is chaining SE on me.
I really do think you earned it and I really do think you have all rights to use it, more than any other class.
Atm my personal opinion is that the "squishy" classes like Hunter at first degree, Warlock and CW (not at first degree) get mostly wrecked by tanky/melee classes if no DC/OP is arround.
I do think the ring doesn´t work as it should, that´s no 20 feet on sight imo.
And I also think that a GF wearing that ring at the actual state of the game is more than redicules by doing so.
I met one wearing ambush+coward being 4k from PVP known PVP guild... thats poor in every aspect imo.
CW´s /Warlocks wearing it do have an andvantage by doing so.
GWF, TR, DC I never recognized wearing that ring very often.
All in all I have no problem with a Hunter wearing it, because half of the time they are in stealth even without it.
If I could chose I would just delete the ring from game, but since it will not happen I wear it to counter
1. permastealth TR, since I got no dodge and
2. 2. to counter the guys who wear it...
I do not use him permanently, I would say once a week or twice, just to not forget how this game normally is like.
Permastealth for everyone was a really silly idea
As long as you are using WAI items/powers I really don't care what you use.
The only reason i play nowadays is to get AD for 2 matches. Yes I use ambush ring, it's one of the best defenses in game at the moment.
No i don't care what you say/think about it
Whiney Permastealth rogue threads.
Now everyone can be perma. When everyone is special, no one is.
If some people want to be so desperate as to justify themselves using elements of the game which are clearly problematic in so many ways, if they be willing to do all kinds of deeds which are simply stupid and vile, borders on idiocy, and ultimately hurts the game more than does it good, then fine.
BUT NOT ME.
Don't care if those lame-HAMSTER wankers paint it as "self gimping". Doesn't matter if they say it's self-serving, that it means nothing but personal mental satisfaction, or even slander it as hypocrisy. In the end, PvP is all about that self-satisfaction. The pride you take in recognizing your own skill and prowess, besting the others in competition in a way which no person will ever dispute, that you are clearly the better, stronger player. To this old PvP school of thought and its followers, we'd rather just friggin' quit the game rather than follow a path that leads to pathetic and petty chittery. Exploiting bugs, going P2W, relying on every broken krapchit that's responsible for the destruction of the entire game balance. Hey, maybe some people are that desperate, BUT NOT ME.
In PvP, everything is about the self-respect.
Why else would anyone be playing a content so fiercely competitive, highly stressful, embedded with moments of humiliation and outburts of anger, cussing at each other for nothing? It's all about the self-respect. A game of primal, macho, chauvinistic, chest-thumping combat where I beat you up hands down, no excuses.
The more trinkets and gadgets and what-nots you tag on to yourself to be able to win, the more it becomes about those items WHICH YOU BUY WITH YOUR MONEY. When that happens, PvP becomes about how much money you invest, not about you or the other guy. Everything that gives you that self-respect in PvP, the experiences, the knowledge, the tricky ambushes you've set up, the clever escapes you wish you'd have gotten on video, the one in a million 'super-plays' that you yourself cannot believe you just pulled off -- all of this don't matter any more. They don't ever happen anymore, because when you find yourself amidst people plastered with performance altering items that influence the game more than any one man's skill, then the game goes dead.
There's no more self-respect to be earned, no matter how often you win. Did you just win that fight because you were that skilled with that character? Or was it those broken chitkrap items you've bought in the auction for several million ADs? Would you be able to win constantly without those?
When PvP starts losing that essence of self-respect it gives out to players, that's when it starts dying. When its riddled and muddled with balance breaking items, both you and the other guy know, how much it effects the game, and how lame it is becoming. Players who really enjoy what it means to PvP, at this point, just simply call it quits.
All you've got left is a bunch of 2nd-rate wannabes, plastered and covered with money-bought items, who engage in a battle of pretend, or make believe, which are pale, weak imitations of the great players and their great fights of old when PvP was in its prime, when it was truly fun to play, and being good in it gave you that sense of pride and self-respect.
In these day and times, I'd hardly be able to imagine any real PvP player taking any kind of pride in his work no matter how much of a shiny winning streak he displays within the game, because the more you kill your opponents through your shiny trinkets, the more lame and bland, tasteless it feels.
...
Anyone who really knows PvP, knows this to be true. You know it people. You know I'm right. Without that sense of pride, self-respect, the exhilarating fun factor that gave you the adrenaline rush, PvP offers nothing more than that pale bland of sludge we call PvE.
Anyone thinks I'm wrong, ask yourselves, why is NW PvP dying?
Imbalance? Bugs? We've had that before. Heck, nothing compares to the "imbalance" I used to face down during mod2. We've seen some crazy bugs and imbalanced chit in the past, but to this day the mod2 GWFs still gives me the nightmares. But even then, the game was fun. PvP was fun. People used to complain about the same stuff, the broken balance, the bugs galore, but the game was still fun.
So what's new that happened in the recent 2~3 mods, that did not happen in the olden days? Think really hard, and try to picture the image of "wallet", "credit card", and the letters "F2P2W".
And then, you start understanding why you don't get that sense of pride any more.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
kweassa:
Great post as usual!!! I'll modify and add a post-apocalyptic observation to your very passionate state-of-pvp-mental assessment...
Nowadays, I just want to kill the other team...period. Many premades will just glitch their way to victory so I'm just going to take a few with me. Sweet assassination >:) it's so much fun. Better than stealthing forever and flinging daggers till they're dead. BORING.
I used to enjoy the strategy, the learning process, character-building, but I gave up and just have fun seeing how many glitching OPs and over-blown ego'd GWFs I can HAMSTER off. The ones that are mature GET IT and it they laugh it off, its a game, and the sociopaths and BPD kids playing in pvp just don't get it, and continue to delude themselves.
So I'm actually having a ball right now with my TR, which is a shame after reading your post and see how far we really have fallen.
Especially when the last decade was about bad MMOs trying to benchmark(= copycat) the hell out of Blizzard's WoW, it becomes really difficult to meet a good, original MMO to play... and to see how Cryptic just throws the opportunity away, not once, not twice, but three times in a row...
I dunno how much of the original Cryptic crew from CoH days are left within the company, but seeing a game developer come up with fascinating and inspiring original content, and then just squander all of that potential through greed -- it's just sad.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'