He really healed up from 20% to full in 2 seconds, i had a devotion pally in MY team.. maybe it had something to do with that? since he had 15k heal procs. or it might have been, pvp pot, wheel, drowned weapons, unstoppable and elven boon all at the same time? w/e, I still think gwf's will eventually be able to kill gf's in 1v1 if they spec more into hp/deflect instead of lifesteal.(he was not attacking me SO NO LIFESTEAL)
that video above.. well those 2 are new to gwf class, they just p2w their gear but have no skill at all. btw i see alot of gwf's killing gf's too..
edit: Minimi using ambush ring
Mmmmh...i didn't take into account the boons (mainly because it must be real luck for them to proc exactly when you need them). Looks still a bit weird, in the sense that only 1 boon procs 20k insta-heal, the other is 20k over time+more healing over time from wheel-drowned-PvP potion. 15k procs can be in line with healing from the multiple sources listed. Unstoppable does not heal unless he got the Unstoppable Recovery feat, which is however only 2.5% total HP when you go unstoppable (5%, halved by healing depression), but it gives temp HPs, and that might indeed look like a healing (in the sense that overall, the HP bar "fills up). If he healed in few seconds it might be the above.
I kind of agree about the HP part. In the sense that if a GWF can survive the first rotation and heal back, he might be able to fight back. Similar to how we (GWFs) build up to survive 1-shotting SE builds (high HP+wheel+drowned set). Deflect might be a bit tricky: it is a chance, i'd say around 40% if you put some efforts to raise it+bravery+halfling. But GFs work with burst "1-rotation"/ few strong hits, which is not good for a "chance", unless you have it at 50%+, my opinion. A more..mmmh...reliable way is to boost Unstoppable temp HPs further with power/str. Following Lancer's advice i gave up bravery (deflect and speed) and trying a few different options. I'd add sacrificing burst for, may be, takedown? After all GFs usually don't heal back as fast as other classes, so you don't need high burst at all costs. Getting behind the GF and CC him is a good way to prevent him from attacking, while stopping him from blocking, and land few strong SS hits. A bit tricky to get behind GFs when they use ITF and move around, but that might just take some practice i guess.
For example, hidden dagger-get behind and TD (takedown usually automatically makes you turn back and hit) then restoring strike (some burst+healing). Just theorycrafting. Easier said than done XD
Yes, what alot of gwf's try to do is stay a little out of range and sprint the bullcharge, this is not always the best idea. you need to keep attacking the GF to build up stacks, he will have to drop block eventually to cast itf. Save ur fls for when he activates itf, then use indo strenght, not SA. do 2 atwills and follow up with ibs. the gf should be low hp and you can now kill him trough block untill he dies. Ofcourse the Gf has diffrent ways to counter this, but i think this is generally a good way to fight a GF. (and ofcourse if the GF has higher Ilvl than you dont even try..)
Oh i see. Thanks. I was wondering about that too. Let me explain: i saw all "BiS" PvPers wearing those. When i read the description i noticed it says that the effect heals "nearby allies". So i thought it was a "setup" for premades where all the 5 members have the set and heal each others, but i assumed that the set would not heal the user (self-healing). Now i know it's just another misleading tooltip. Nice.
Also: about increasing HP: it seems that artifacts/ gear is the only way. Cause i took a look at the effect of CON stat on my GWF total HP pool, and it ended up being 2xCON= 1200 HP. Which is incredibly LOW. Simply slotting and un-slotting my lathander belt, that's the change. One thing that might help increase overall HP could be creating a earth artifact to switch the eLoL horn (horn= power, arp, control bonus/ earth artifact= 4k HP, arp and control resistance), and put HP reinforce kits on armor (800x4=3200 HP). 7.2k HP increase overall, while keeping ArP as high.
Will you guys look at balancing classes in March with new mod ??
Alot have been said ... but I think it comes down to one thing.which is any class should be able to kill any class in pvp with same gear score(gs)
Example : no hr or cw for instance at 4k gs can kill a gwf or gf or paladin of 4k gs.
If there is cases like that they are extremely rare.
The reason is that cw do not have enough burst damage to deal with these classes I've mentioned defense mechanisms.
Oath bound paladin are basically immortal but with the bugs they use can kill almost any class whilst being extremely tanky.
Surely this is not right ??
TR se is overkill ... TR courage breaker should be lessened with eleven battle.... gwf needs rework .... op needs huge nerf(bubble) and recovery bugs removed...gf needs damage nerf ...HRs need damage buff less stun....cw needs burst damage to deal with paladin or gwf/gfs or a major de buff encounter like roe can be improved .. tr stealth is ok but then damage and deflect should be nerfed cause they just dagger to death whilst permanent stealthed. ...... to mention some major ones ...
PALADIN BUGS AND DEFENSE/OFFENSE I THINK IS MOST BROKEN AND which It's killing the fun of pvp and the game and general.
You cannot have classes with so much defense have so much dps damage. It's unblanced.
PvP can be a major income generator for the game if time is spent to balance classes as this will create a larger player base as there will be (should) be fairness.
PvP players in general spend more money than pve players if you compare the percentages.
Why not focus on making pvp in neverwinter something really special and fun.
Put out some vacancies for top pvp players to assist and it won't take long to get this in place.
To add to what alot of people said and also to state the general feeling within the pvp community : stealth rings and drains broke the game and should just be done away completely as it added more complexity and frustration to an already dying community.
I'm sure something can be done ??
Like I said as long as any class with same gs can kill any other class by applying similar skills everything should be fine and will come down more to tactics etc.
I hope that you find the spirit I have typed out this message as friendly as I intended.
Thanks for all the efforts that ha en and will go into achieving balance in a environment that has so much potential to benefit cryptic and players alike.
Paladins perma Bubble it's only annoying, because they make the match Boring, same goes to dc. just holding one node "like u cant kill me" so we wasting time. So between GF vsTR Currently are GF way dangerous than TR as I said because GF have more abilitys to deal high BurstDMG, and TR got his 1-shot SE and that's it, which is not constantly like GF's Burst-
with changing GF's Prone to Stun "We will see a difference", that should be the first step on fixing before reducing that HighBurst.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Well, it's not like TRs have 1 SE at BiS level. Facing a 4k TR on my 3k GWF i got CB'ed-SE'd a few seconds later-SE'd again, all in 30-40s. 3 dailies. BiS TRs really spam dailies even faster than encounters. And i don't really buy the "but we have lower encounter damage" argument, not vs GWFs. Because you can DODGE my encounters. Easily, i'd say. I can't dodge CB or SE. They land on GWFs with no chance to miss. I must eat them, period. So dailies bring TR damage on par with mine, but with a 100% chance to hit, while i have to get through their dodge, and stealth, and ITC...exc... Obviously GWFs have their ubermonster damage going for them, HP pool and wheel. But it's again a match made of extremes.
And this is the key of the problem: we have a semblance of balance, based on extremes.
About overall balance: i don't think classes are unbalanced "per se". As many stated, every class got something too strong. The issue is:
we have extremes. Immortal teams or one rotating/ one-shotting builds. You either one-rotate the enemy or they never die. You are immortal or you die in one rotation. You read stuff like "i need to one-rotate them or they will heal back". Too much healing or too much tankyness, and too much damage. This creates lack of balance in a match. You can't one-rotate a GWF? Good chance he will LS back to full and you'll never kill him. You can't one-rotate a bubbledin in between bubbles? He is immortal. You don't have monster HPs or protection, and self-healing? You can be one-rotated or one-shotted.
See the picture?
What we should have is an overall balance that makes players, when attacked, lose HPs steadily. Slower or faster depending on how many enemies are attacking the player AND the build/class (a tank, a DPS build or a tanky build exc...). Healing and protection should DELAY the death, not make the dude immortal.
No extremes in both damage and survivability. Would give room for fights and avoid the extremes that make players angry (when they can't kill an enemy, or when the enemy one-shots/ one-rotates them). First period after they introduced tenacity and healing depression, was like that. Players dying, not too fast, and no immortals.
What we should have is an overall balance that makes players, when attacked, lose HPs steadily. Slower or faster depending on how many enemies are attacking the player AND the build/class (a tank, a DPS build or a tanky build exc...). Healing and protection should DELAY the death, not make the dude immortal.
No extremes in both damage and survivability. Would give room for fights and avoid the extremes that make players angry (when they can't kill an enemy, or when the enemy one-shots/ one-rotates them). First period after they introduced tenacity and healing depression, was like that. Players dying, not too fast, and no immortals.
This makes better sense than the endless nerf-this-nerf-that sh!tlist. Healing should have been removed altogether or have an expendable resource, and HP pools increased about at least tenfold. Things that will never happen, but oh well, here I am back to the forums while the game is under maintenance. :<
OP and DC are already hard to take down even with a full BIS team. So nerfing everything like trs, gf, gwf... is pointless and make matches a hide and seek game (ambush rings)
ITC got ninja nerfed already it seems. When activating ITC i often get CC'd after. It's like it breaks 1 control, then if there is a second one, even under itc i get controled.
ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
I don't care anymore. BiS GF with many mythic art/trans etc waiting new time. No balance announced for the next module afaik, just new/old dung (1 piece). It's not possible with this team. Just loging to get a fre key. cya
'nother example of GWF vs GF... This one could resist longer than the other 2 in the previous video. Looks like MinimiTroll is having a blast with his Ring of Ambush GF...
After intentionally adding axebeak, drain glyphs, and these new rings. You really think they are willing to make an conscious effort towards balancing?
It's not the GF fault, no one was moaning about them at the during mod 6 or mod 7.
It's the items they keep introducing that change the balance of pvp. A gf without ArP Boon and axebeak wasn't a problem. Now everyone has to deal with crazy amounts of damage. GF block DR happens to not be effected by ArP, so they are still relatively tanky compared to other classes..
Mmmh...may i point out that even if you remove the massive ArP stacking, since you remove it from other classes as well, you still have both GWFs and GFs dealing massive burst compared to other classes. You might get rid of the one-rotating issue, but you still have those 2 classes dealing noticeably more burst than other DPSers.
For sure the massive ArP overkill should be addressed, since it allows players to reach the 80% DRI even with tenacity ArP resistance at work. But damage normalization on GFs and GWFs is needed as well. Along with a train of other fixes such as normalization of trappers (less CC, more survivability), normalization of paladins and DCs (immortal teams), tone down of self-heals exc...
They mst work on everything at once.
0
onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
Mmmh...may i point out that even if you remove the massive ArP stacking, since you remove it from other classes as well, you still have both GWFs and GFs dealing massive burst compared to other classes. You might get rid of the one-rotating issue, but you still have those 2 classes dealing noticeably more burst than other DPSers.
For sure the massive ArP overkill should be addressed, since it allows players to reach the 80% DRI even with tenacity ArP resistance at work. But damage normalization on GFs and GWFs is needed as well. Along with a train of other fixes such as normalization of trappers (less CC, more survivability), normalization of paladins and DCs (immortal teams), tone down of self-heals exc...
They mst work on everything at once.
Sadly I don't think this will ever happen as they are incapable of even working on one item properly at a time. Working on all classes at once requires an extensive development staff, which again they do not have.
They are not willing, as stated in the past, to stop development on new(recycle) areas/dungeons to fix all the issues brought by recent/past patches.
Comments
I kind of agree about the HP part. In the sense that if a GWF can survive the first rotation and heal back, he might be able to fight back. Similar to how we (GWFs) build up to survive 1-shotting SE builds (high HP+wheel+drowned set). Deflect might be a bit tricky: it is a chance, i'd say around 40% if you put some efforts to raise it+bravery+halfling. But GFs work with burst "1-rotation"/ few strong hits, which is not good for a "chance", unless you have it at 50%+, my opinion.
A more..mmmh...reliable way is to boost Unstoppable temp HPs further with power/str. Following Lancer's advice i gave up bravery (deflect and speed) and trying a few different options.
I'd add sacrificing burst for, may be, takedown? After all GFs usually don't heal back as fast as other classes, so you don't need high burst at all costs. Getting behind the GF and CC him is a good way to prevent him from attacking, while stopping him from blocking, and land few strong SS hits. A bit tricky to get behind GFs when they use ITF and move around, but that might just take some practice i guess.
For example, hidden dagger-get behind and TD (takedown usually automatically makes you turn back and hit) then restoring strike (some burst+healing). Just theorycrafting. Easier said than done XD
Also: about increasing HP: it seems that artifacts/ gear is the only way. Cause i took a look at the effect of CON stat on my GWF total HP pool, and it ended up being 2xCON= 1200 HP. Which is incredibly LOW. Simply slotting and un-slotting my lathander belt, that's the change. One thing that might help increase overall HP could be creating a earth artifact to switch the eLoL horn (horn= power, arp, control bonus/ earth artifact= 4k HP, arp and control resistance), and put HP reinforce kits on armor (800x4=3200 HP). 7.2k HP increase overall, while keeping ArP as high.
Will you guys look at balancing classes in March with new mod ??
Alot have been said ... but I think it comes down to one thing.which is any class should be able to kill any class in pvp with same gear score(gs)
Example : no hr or cw for instance at 4k gs can kill a gwf or gf or paladin of 4k gs.
If there is cases like that they are extremely rare.
The reason is that cw do not have enough burst damage to deal with these classes I've mentioned defense mechanisms.
Oath bound paladin are basically immortal but with the bugs they use can kill almost any class whilst being extremely tanky.
Surely this is not right ??
TR se is overkill ... TR courage breaker should be lessened with eleven battle.... gwf needs rework .... op needs huge nerf(bubble) and recovery bugs removed...gf needs damage nerf ...HRs need damage buff less stun....cw needs burst damage to deal with paladin or gwf/gfs or a major de buff encounter like roe can be improved .. tr stealth is ok but then damage and deflect should be nerfed cause they just dagger to death whilst permanent stealthed. ...... to mention some major ones ...
PALADIN BUGS AND DEFENSE/OFFENSE I THINK IS MOST BROKEN AND which It's killing the fun of pvp and the game and general.
You cannot have classes with so much defense have so much dps damage. It's unblanced.
PvP can be a major income generator for the game if time is spent to balance classes as this will create a larger player base as there will be (should) be fairness.
PvP players in general spend more money than pve players if you compare the percentages.
Why not focus on making pvp in neverwinter something really special and fun.
Put out some vacancies for top pvp players to assist and it won't take long to get this in place.
To add to what alot of people said and also to state the general feeling within the pvp community : stealth rings and drains broke the game and should just be done away completely as it added more complexity and frustration to an already dying community.
I'm sure something can be done ??
Like I said as long as any class with same gs can kill any other class by applying similar skills everything should be fine and will come down more to tactics etc.
I hope that you find the spirit I have typed out this message as friendly as I intended.
Thanks for all the efforts that ha en and will go into achieving balance in a environment that has so much potential to benefit cryptic and players alike.
Hope to hear any thoughts on this.
Thank you.
just holding one node "like u cant kill me" so we wasting time.
So between GF vsTR
Currently are GF way dangerous than TR as I said because GF have more abilitys to deal high BurstDMG,
and TR got his 1-shot SE and that's it, which is not constantly like GF's Burst-
with changing GF's Prone to Stun "We will see a difference",
that should be the first step on fixing before reducing that HighBurst.
Obviously GWFs have their ubermonster damage going for them, HP pool and wheel. But it's again a match made of extremes.
And this is the key of the problem: we have a semblance of balance, based on extremes.
About overall balance: i don't think classes are unbalanced "per se". As many stated, every class got something too strong. The issue is:
we have extremes. Immortal teams or one rotating/ one-shotting builds. You either one-rotate the enemy or they never die. You are immortal or you die in one rotation. You read stuff like "i need to one-rotate them or they will heal back".
Too much healing or too much tankyness, and too much damage. This creates lack of balance in a match. You can't one-rotate a GWF? Good chance he will LS back to full and you'll never kill him. You can't one-rotate a bubbledin in between bubbles? He is immortal. You don't have monster HPs or protection, and self-healing? You can be one-rotated or one-shotted.
See the picture?
What we should have is an overall balance that makes players, when attacked, lose HPs steadily. Slower or faster depending on how many enemies are attacking the player AND the build/class (a tank, a DPS build or a tanky build exc...). Healing and protection should DELAY the death, not make the dude immortal.
No extremes in both damage and survivability. Would give room for fights and avoid the extremes that make players angry (when they can't kill an enemy, or when the enemy one-shots/ one-rotates them).
First period after they introduced tenacity and healing depression, was like that. Players dying, not too fast, and no immortals.
So nerfing everything like trs, gf, gwf... is pointless and make matches a hide and seek game (ambush rings)
When activating ITC i often get CC'd after. It's like it breaks 1 control, then if there is a second one, even under itc i get controled.
It's not possible with this team.
Just loging to get a fre key.
cya
.Suicide Squad.
This one could resist longer than the other 2 in the previous video.
Looks like MinimiTroll is having a blast with his Ring of Ambush GF...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qkeY06L3vUU
It's not the GF fault, no one was moaning about them at the during mod 6 or mod 7.
It's the items they keep introducing that change the balance of pvp. A gf without ArP Boon and axebeak wasn't a problem. Now everyone has to deal with crazy amounts of damage. GF block DR happens to not be effected by ArP, so they are still relatively tanky compared to other classes..
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You might get rid of the one-rotating issue, but you still have those 2 classes dealing noticeably more burst than other DPSers.
For sure the massive ArP overkill should be addressed, since it allows players to reach the 80% DRI even with tenacity ArP resistance at work.
But damage normalization on GFs and GWFs is needed as well. Along with a train of other fixes such as normalization of trappers (less CC, more survivability), normalization of paladins and DCs (immortal teams), tone down of self-heals exc...
They mst work on everything at once.
Sadly I don't think this will ever happen as they are incapable of even working on one item properly at a time. Working on all classes at once requires an extensive development staff, which again they do not have.
They are not willing, as stated in the past, to stop development on new(recycle) areas/dungeons to fix all the issues brought by recent/past patches.