So, do you have a solution for PVP which does not include destroying the Pala in PVE by nerfing every tanking aspect of his? And no, stating " he is immortal " or " DP is too strong" is not enough
Easy. Come up with a counter class that directly neutralizes what the DC/OP is strongest in -- heals and resists.
Give the currently most underpowered, overlooked class, the SW, special debuffs to what the DC or OP can buff/heal. I've said this many times, but the SW is perfect for this role as it is in need of much buffing, as well as these buffs would also be conceptually lore-friendly in that SWs are essentially "dark magic users", invoking powers of hell, demonology, curses, and stuff, whereas the DC and the OP are priests of light and holiness.
(1) give the SW significantly powerful heal debuffs
(1) give the SW multiple choices of significantly powerful, special debuffs that target stuff like
-- AP gain rate
-- stamina recharge rate
-- movement speed
-- damage resistance
-- deflect chance
(2) make it so that these debuffs start low, but then stacks up to very high levels, so that the SW player is required to concentrate and maintain debuffs on its target.
(3) give one of the SW dailies a special feature: when activated against an enemy, it removes ALL external buffs received from outside sources and blocks new buffs from being applied for 10 seconds.
So, in PvE, the SW gains some more goodies in that these debuffs could help up their usefulness. In PvP, they are still the weak and frail class, and by heavily slotting these debuff powers it would also suffer in damage, but at the same time it'd be the BANE of all DCs and OPs in that SWs will become essentially powerful enough to cancel out the usefulness of the DC or OP in a 1:1 scale. If there be the lame-shi* DP daily spamming, then the SW can take notice and cast his own daily as sort of a "counter spell" to make its effects null & void.
This way...
(1) DCs and OPs are not nerfed and PvE is unchanged
(2) DCs and OPs are balanced in PvP through the emergence of a "counter class"
(3) SW players can find new objectives and purpose in PvP
This relationship could also be considered opposite -- for instance if a certain team includes a SW in their ranks to help up their killing power, a DC or OP with its buffs or heals would essentially cancel the SW out, since the power of those classes to buff, or conversely, debuff, would be roughly equals.
Everybody is happy, problem solved.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
I do not agree this would be a good solution, having to use one specific class to counter another class in specific, does not really make the gameplay more enjoyable nor exciting.
However if the healing spells has a longer casting time, and can be interrupted (skill goes to cooldown once interrupted), then it would take more skills to time the timing to use the heals rather than just spam spam spam.
Other solutions? Healer/OP that has been CCed while casting a heal half way, would have its effectiveness debuffed to 50% for the next 6 seconds?
So basically this would encourage the players to actually time their skills, rather than just 'spam spam spam', would make it more technical and the whole fight more exciting.
So, do you have a solution for PVP which does not include destroying the Pala in PVE by nerfing every tanking aspect of his? And no, stating " he is immortal " or " DP is too strong" is not enough
Easy. Come up with a counter class that directly neutralizes what the DC/OP is strongest in -- heals and resists.
Give the currently most underpowered, overlooked class, the SW, special debuffs to what the DC or OP can buff/heal. I've said this many times, but the SW is perfect for this role as it is in need of much buffing, as well as these buffs would also be conceptually lore-friendly in that SWs are essentially "dark magic users", invoking powers of hell, demonology, curses, and stuff, whereas the DC and the OP are priests of light and holiness.
(1) give the SW significantly powerful heal debuffs
(1) give the SW multiple choices of significantly powerful, special debuffs that target stuff like
-- AP gain rate
-- stamina recharge rate
-- movement speed
-- damage resistance
-- deflect chance
(2) make it so that these debuffs start low, but then stacks up to very high levels, so that the SW player is required to concentrate and maintain debuffs on its target.
(3) give one of the SW dailies a special feature: when activated against an enemy, it removes ALL external buffs received from outside sources and blocks new buffs from being applied for 10 seconds.
So, in PvE, the SW gains some more goodies in that these debuffs could help up their usefulness. In PvP, they are still the weak and frail class, and by heavily slotting these debuff powers it would also suffer in damage, but at the same time it'd be the BANE of all DCs and OPs in that SWs will become essentially powerful enough to cancel out the usefulness of the DC or OP in a 1:1 scale. If there be the lame-shi* DP daily spamming, then the SW can take notice and cast his own daily as sort of a "counter spell" to make its effects null & void.
This way...
(1) DCs and OPs are not nerfed and PvE is unchanged
(2) DCs and OPs are balanced in PvP through the emergence of a "counter class"
(3) SW players can find new objectives and purpose in PvP
This relationship could also be considered opposite -- for instance if a certain team includes a SW in their ranks to help up their killing power, a DC or OP with its buffs or heals would essentially cancel the SW out, since the power of those classes to buff, or conversely, debuff, would be roughly equals.
I do not agree this would be a good solution, having to use one specific class to counter another class in specific, does not really make the gameplay more enjoyable nor exciting.
Well, it's basically a different philosophy of PvP in this case. Some people believe that any class/archetype should be on equal 1:1 terms with every other class/archetype to be considered 'balanced.' In my case, I don't really believe that, and I'm more of the "rock-scissors-paper" school of thought. When there's a specific problem, then you use a specific solution.
So, if the current system allows an alternative which you can come up with, then I wouldn't consider things broken or overpowered -- i.e., like my new CW build used against conventional DC/OP. In this case I give up many of the things considered the strengths of the CW class, in exchange for a power that other classes don't have. I consider that a fair trade. If a certain class/tactic gains popularity, then you start preparations to fight against it.
It's one specific class that becomes a problem, so you prepare a counter class.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited June 2015
It is very rude to openly address a player/guild and use 'assumptions' to shame them, I hope you do not do it again.
My suggestions are open and free to everyone's opinion, I am merely suggesting ways to allow all players to enjoy this game better, and my words truthfully express just that, obviously, if you disagree, feel free to suggest why, and not just leaving meaningless words trying to put others down, I hope you realize what you are doing is very rude.
I do main a BiS GWF however what you assumed wrong is, I do not expect nor enjoy facerolling everyone, I enjoy challenges, learning new things, finding out new team tactics/combos, not one sided masscare. Anyone that has met me in DOM know, I do not abuse lowbies once they they surrender, I do not trash talk on people regardless of their gear/performance and I do not blame teammates even if they are unskilled/ungeared and not knowing what they are doing, its a game for everyone, and everyone has the rights to enjoy it the way they like, we should all respect everyone's personal preference.
So once again, I kindly ask that you revise your wording before publishing harsh comments, its very unfriendly, and does not help building a healthy community.
"1) give the SW significantly powerful heal debuffs
(1) give the SW multiple choices of significantly powerful, special debuffs that target stuff like
-- AP gain rate
-- stamina recharge rate
-- movement speed
-- damage resistance
-- deflect chance"
I agree. In fact we have already made this suggestion a few times. The SW is the debuffing, anti-healer class thematically, all he needs is the power.
Sigh.. the Purple dragon of course disagrees. After all he mains a bis GWF and demands good return for his investments. Good return here being facerolling everyone else. The bis PVP people in Neverwinter are perfect example of why free-to-play is going down the drain.
"I enjoy challenges, learning new things, finding out new team tactics/combos" ..
Icyphish, these words mean nothing in Neverwinter. The only challenge here is how much to spend for gear. The learning extends only to which FoM item to have and the so called team tactics and combos are nothing more than class stacking and (ab)using certain game mechanics.
This is what PVP guilds have been doing forever in this game and others.
Not really. We have been organizing premades and "inhouses" since the beginning of this league. I seriously cant remember last time i fought against pugs in this game. So pls, not all PvP guilds are like that
"I enjoy challenges, learning new things, finding out new team tactics/combos" ..
Icyphish, these words mean nothing in Neverwinter. The only challenge here is how much to spend for gear. The learning extends only to which FoM item to have and the so called team tactics and combos are nothing more than class stacking and (ab)using certain game mechanics.
This is what PVP guilds have been doing forever in this game and others. If you truly wanted challanges, tactics and teamplay you'd be in a multiplayer fps or even a moba where skill and ability to work with others truly determine winners and things like mythical items and rank12 enchantments dont even exist.. But you picked a free-to-play MMO where we can literally buy power and now you dare speak of sportsmanship? Even if you're not a hypocrite, you still are a customer in Neverwinter and that, by default, voids any chance for fair play. Thats just the nature of the business model.
PS: "Healthy community"...in Neverwinter.. and this coming from a PVP guild member.. priceless
I think the issue is this:
Said tanks like tank DC (i play) and OP, can be taken down ONLY through CC.
1v5, if the team cannot flawlessly coordinate and dish out enough cc, they cannot kill the tank through pure DPS. Group vs one tank i mean. The amount of cc your group must dish out is the problem. If you can't, you might hit as hard as tiamat, it makes no difference.
While 2 players should already kill SLOWLY a tank that is, instead, immortal 1v1. Being unable to kill 1v1 means you are immortal 1v1. 2v1 you slowly die. 3v1, 4v1, 5v1 faster and faster you go down.
And the enemy team should be able to outdamage your healing as an option. So 2 gwfs on a op should be able to slowly kill him through pure, timed DPS. Right now, the op can sit at full hp forever in such situation. Same a tank DC.
Currently, only option is a massive amount of chain CC with no pause or the tank fully heals back/ gets invulnerable and heals back.
It only happens when piercing damage/ wheel are involved (making it broken mechanic vs broken mechanic).
I know playing my scrub tank DC and see geared players unable to kill me unless the chain cc me can make me laugh one or two times. But i can say it's not balanced.
Reduce cc needed to take tanks down, increase pure DPS effect on them if well timed. Also the team immortality is a valid point.
Being a support class they should shine in group fights, while fall if left alone back-capping, if 2 enemies go to deal with them.
Also: paladins are immortal 1v1 but can still SLOWLY kill you. Tank DC can't. It's shown in the data macjae posted. Tank DC is close to 1/1 k/d ratio. Opally is much higher, close to TR. Means they can indeed kill some while being immortal, where tank DC is immortal but deals literally not enough damage to even make your hp drop.
Also: f we have to slot different powers to deal with each class (leap for TR execution, roar for opally/tank DC, exc...) then i want a switchable multiple power bar.
Can't slot leap when i meet a TR, then comes and OP and i need to open power window and drag roar, then the TR is back, open again... you serious lol.
Might work in premades where you have a role and end up fighting the same guy/s most of the time. But in pug pvp where you fight all five enemies in a fast succession (often) it's just...terribile.
Would rather have sprint/unstoppable working as flat mitigation on SE if the timing is right, and the option to either mass cc or out-DPS the tank heals.
I would only advocate for 2 changes.
Stop the ap generation during that daily like every other class with long duration effects. Or put a cd on the daily itself. 50 seconds? Like hr dailies
Also Put a hard icd on the offhand daze.
Because yes a cc player cant use its powers but you cc a whole party with no icd standing still, just because you are wearing an artifact offhand.
Paladin doesnt have stealth and nor ITC, so it's a lot easier to control it.
Palladin HAS CC breaking encounter.
PLEASE don't post unless you are not ignorant of the class.
THAT last part goes to everyone, please don't take it personally
yeees you break cc, and then get ccd again 0.326 seconds later, so now ? especially playing vs smth like HR. it does help, but its purely defensive/support you lose encounter slot for a meh ability that has cc break(at least for prot), it doesnt provide any cc resist after it. it fd up often you cant use it during cc, or at least it takes a second before you can use it after cc is applied(and with massive cc reduction from tenacity cc has usually ended by the time you can use it), it cant be used when prone and cc classes have so many cc that they will drop next one.
you should follow your own advice
so instead of demanding for a fix in CT that is not useable in some cases, or ask for the possibility to reduce a cooldown OF YOUR class you make complaints FOR ANOTHER class?
I told you not to take it personally and i did not want under any circumstances to frustrate you so
1st : chill
2nd: i also play a pally even though he is not my main and my problem is more when CT does not work or SANCTUARY does not than when another class does this or that
3rd : I never EVER advocate for nerfs when there are broken feats/enchants/dailies (BROKEN MEANS NOT WAI) in some classes , so i NEVER advocate for nerfs (Divine Judgement included). There is no worst thing for a person to waist time or money or both for a game he enjoys and the day after to be told "Tadaaa everything changed, you have to make it/build it AGAIN"
I actually was thinking the pally needed a buff. On my GWF I almost killed one solo. It took 7 minutes and the pally was afk the whole time but I think I would have managed had not a team mate of the pally arrived. Buff them, definitely buff them.
I do not trash talk on people regardless of their gear/performance and I do not blame teammates even if they are unskilled/ungeared and not knowing what they are doing, its a game for everyone, and everyone has the rights to enjoy it the way they like, we should all respect everyone's personal preference.
[/quote]
Even if that's not the place, i disagree with ya, i already met ya in dom, and yes, you trash talk.
And i even remember a DOM where my team was not able to kill ya, and u told them to call their paladin ( me ) because even a weak noob paladin would not kill ya ( the fact is that you cannot kill me, but i got a good memory, and ur name is writen on a paper )
That's weird how ppl change their mind, at the beginning ppl was laughing at us ( paladin ) now, they want us to litteraly die because they cant play like before.
KWeassa, at first i was not liking you, i was thinking, one more who wants to nerf all..
But u said something intersting, about the Sw, till the begining, i say that nerfing a class isnt the right way, but improve some other one was THE solution, and people should cry ant try to make their class better instead of trying to kill the classes of the other one.
"I enjoy challenges, learning new things, finding out new team tactics/combos" ..
Icyphish, these words mean nothing in Neverwinter. The only challenge here is how much to spend for gear. The learning extends only to which FoM item to have and the so called team tactics and combos are nothing more than class stacking and (ab)using certain game mechanics.
This is what PVP guilds have been doing forever in this game and others.
Not really. We have been organizing premades and "inhouses" since the beginning of this league. I seriously cant remember last time i fought against pugs in this game. So pls, not all PvP guilds are like that
I can attest to that, especially for you man.
And I can add that for some pvp guilds this was the 'Regular way' since the beginning of the pvp community on NW . As far as i know at least
I do not trash talk on people regardless of their gear/performance and I do not blame teammates even if they are unskilled/ungeared and not knowing what they are doing, its a game for everyone, and everyone has the rights to enjoy it the way they like, we should all respect everyone's personal preference.
Even if that's not the place, i disagree with ya, i already met ya in dom, and yes, you trash talk.
And i even remember a DOM where my team was not able to kill ya, and u told them to call their paladin ( me ) because even a weak noob paladin would not kill ya ( the fact is that you cannot kill me, but i got a good memory, and ur name is writen on a paper )
That's weird how ppl change their mind, at the beginning ppl was laughing at us ( paladin ) now, they want us to litteraly die because they cant play like before.
KWeassa, at first i was not liking you, i was thinking, one more who wants to nerf all..
But u said something intersting, about the Sw, till the begining, i say that nerfing a class isnt the right way, but improve some other one was THE solution, and people should cry ant try to make their class better instead of trying to kill the classes of the other one.[/quote]
we have to set a limit on what a tanky healing support class should be able to do.
if your standart is allowing a permament damage immunity to all your party with no cooldown, i m afraid no amount of buffs to other class willl ever overcome that thing.
Like i said, if that skill would be nerfed, it would not bugs me at all, i don't really use it, because my team isnt supposed to be with me, but on another node.
And if any paladin prefer being with his team instead of tanking alone on a node, then it's because :
1 : he's a noob
2 : there is another paladin + a dc in the team
3 : he's a coward
We are not support, we are tank.
If the oppoment see the blue light, they also can split to the 2 other nodes, the paladin will not come on both.
If u see the blue light and manage to kill instead of caping somewhere else, then stop hiting the wrong target and all try to kill the paladin ( only if there is no dc near him ), trust me, it works.
I'm saying that this skill is actually almost a must have on pve, ask to nerf it cryptic will nerf for pvp AND pve.
for me we can start changing your dazes offhand mechanic.
indeed a pala can be cc-ed and probably killed if the whole enemy team isnt AOE cc-ed by that stupid offhand
what you ask, is the same like: You can't 1vs1 TR . 99% TR will win. ( especially with perma stealth ). from regular gear to BiS. BiS geared TR can kill Paladin just 1 hit (if pally 2.5k below ).... balanced???
you cannot asking nerf here ant there about paladin. even me reroll to other class.. since the class paladin now is boring.....super boring. Very very hard to get kill ( lvl 70 match ).. bc our super low damage. and very long to kill mobs in PvE.
even one time. i met same gear IL TR (around 3k). he laughing at my damage. LOL my DJ only 3k .......my atwill only like below 100 damage .. LOL. then we 1vs1 .. he can kill me after i ran out divine call skill. total match around 2 to 3 min. This match was watch to all the team member there. to see how paladin against tr in 1vs1.
its a HAMSTER, if you said you cant kill paladin 1vs1.
mark, it's because your paladin isnt well geared ( i wont say bis ) that you are thinking that
I'm 4,085k , there is absolutly no Tr in game that can kill me 1vs1 ( but they can troll me )
You still can kill, you just have to choose wisely your skill and your build, just you won't kill people like a tr or a gwf
I don't ask for more power, and i don't want another nerf
And people who always ask for a nerf because they are not able to kill 1 class are pathetic. before mod6 Tr was the class to kill, now it's op's turn. )
But IF there is another nerf, paladain needs a compensation.
BiS geared TR can kill Paladin just 1 hit (if pally 2.5k below ).... balanced???
Yes it is actually.
When a BiS (approx 4900 ilvl) and especially a striker class can kill with ease another (ANY class) with 2.5ilvl, you are talking x2 ilvl lol
Search for balance(or the lack of it) another way or ask a friend what balance is, Cause with this statement you dont prove imbalance but most importantly you indicate that there is balance when it might not be there at all
mark, it's because your paladin isnt well geared ( i wont say bis ) that you are thinking that
I'm 4,085k , there is absolutly no Tr in game that can kill me 1vs1 ( but they can troll me )
You still can kill, you just have to choose wisely your skill and your build, just you won't kill people like a tr or a gwf
I don't ask for more power, and i don't want another nerf
And people who always ask for a nerf because they are not able to kill 1 class are pathetic. before mod6 Tr was the class to kill, now it's op's turn. )
But IF there is another nerf, paladain needs a compensation.
BiS geared TR can kill Paladin just 1 hit (if pally 2.5k below ).... balanced???
Yes it is actually.
When a BiS (approx 4900 ilvl) and especially a striker class can kill with ease another (ANY class) with 2.5ilvl, you are talking x2 ilvl lol
Search for balance(or the lack of it) another way or ask a friend what balance is, Cause with this statement you dont prove imbalance but most importantly you indicate that there is balance when it might not be there at all
it might be a lot of numbers but 2.5~2,6k paladin is half grim/half ilvl137, with perfect armor enchant and pure weapon enchant with epic artifacts and r7/r8 enchants. and its much closer in terms of overall stats than ilvl shows
There's also how I'm sure certain people would probably complain if 'good' and 'holy' classes like OPs get countered by 'evil' and 'profane' classes like SWs, because it would probably not be popular with certain world views.
Seriously??
They'd have problems with demonic/evil people winning in a game???
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
for me we can start changing your dazes offhand mechanic.
indeed a pala can be cc-ed and probably killed if the whole enemy team isnt AOE cc-ed by that stupid offhand
...ever met a T.Elven Battle paladin, rayr? Nothing works on them.
NOTHING.
- You can't outdamage its self healing
- You can't get any damage past his shield
- You can't CC him through immunity
- You can't stop his movement
- You can't stop him from his 1-min interval Divine Protector
- ...and if his shield is down for some reason, you can't CC him.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
This! Spoony!
Easy. Come up with a counter class that directly neutralizes what the DC/OP is strongest in -- heals and resists.
Give the currently most underpowered, overlooked class, the SW, special debuffs to what the DC or OP can buff/heal. I've said this many times, but the SW is perfect for this role as it is in need of much buffing, as well as these buffs would also be conceptually lore-friendly in that SWs are essentially "dark magic users", invoking powers of hell, demonology, curses, and stuff, whereas the DC and the OP are priests of light and holiness.
(1) give the SW significantly powerful heal debuffs
(1) give the SW multiple choices of significantly powerful, special debuffs that target stuff like
-- AP gain rate
-- stamina recharge rate
-- movement speed
-- damage resistance
-- deflect chance
(2) make it so that these debuffs start low, but then stacks up to very high levels, so that the SW player is required to concentrate and maintain debuffs on its target.
(3) give one of the SW dailies a special feature: when activated against an enemy, it removes ALL external buffs received from outside sources and blocks new buffs from being applied for 10 seconds.
So, in PvE, the SW gains some more goodies in that these debuffs could help up their usefulness. In PvP, they are still the weak and frail class, and by heavily slotting these debuff powers it would also suffer in damage, but at the same time it'd be the BANE of all DCs and OPs in that SWs will become essentially powerful enough to cancel out the usefulness of the DC or OP in a 1:1 scale. If there be the lame-shi* DP daily spamming, then the SW can take notice and cast his own daily as sort of a "counter spell" to make its effects null & void.
This way...
(1) DCs and OPs are not nerfed and PvE is unchanged
(2) DCs and OPs are balanced in PvP through the emergence of a "counter class"
(3) SW players can find new objectives and purpose in PvP
This relationship could also be considered opposite -- for instance if a certain team includes a SW in their ranks to help up their killing power, a DC or OP with its buffs or heals would essentially cancel the SW out, since the power of those classes to buff, or conversely, debuff, would be roughly equals.
Everybody is happy, problem solved.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
However if the healing spells has a longer casting time, and can be interrupted (skill goes to cooldown once interrupted), then it would take more skills to time the timing to use the heals rather than just spam spam spam.
Other solutions? Healer/OP that has been CCed while casting a heal half way, would have its effectiveness debuffed to 50% for the next 6 seconds?
So basically this would encourage the players to actually time their skills, rather than just 'spam spam spam', would make it more technical and the whole fight more exciting.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Well, it's basically a different philosophy of PvP in this case. Some people believe that any class/archetype should be on equal 1:1 terms with every other class/archetype to be considered 'balanced.' In my case, I don't really believe that, and I'm more of the "rock-scissors-paper" school of thought. When there's a specific problem, then you use a specific solution.
So, if the current system allows an alternative which you can come up with, then I wouldn't consider things broken or overpowered -- i.e., like my new CW build used against conventional DC/OP. In this case I give up many of the things considered the strengths of the CW class, in exchange for a power that other classes don't have. I consider that a fair trade. If a certain class/tactic gains popularity, then you start preparations to fight against it.
It's one specific class that becomes a problem, so you prepare a counter class.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
My suggestions are open and free to everyone's opinion, I am merely suggesting ways to allow all players to enjoy this game better, and my words truthfully express just that, obviously, if you disagree, feel free to suggest why, and not just leaving meaningless words trying to put others down, I hope you realize what you are doing is very rude.
I do main a BiS GWF however what you assumed wrong is, I do not expect nor enjoy facerolling everyone, I enjoy challenges, learning new things, finding out new team tactics/combos, not one sided masscare. Anyone that has met me in DOM know, I do not abuse lowbies once they they surrender, I do not trash talk on people regardless of their gear/performance and I do not blame teammates even if they are unskilled/ungeared and not knowing what they are doing, its a game for everyone, and everyone has the rights to enjoy it the way they like, we should all respect everyone's personal preference.
So once again, I kindly ask that you revise your wording before publishing harsh comments, its very unfriendly, and does not help building a healthy community.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Not really. We have been organizing premades and "inhouses" since the beginning of this league. I seriously cant remember last time i fought against pugs in this game. So pls, not all PvP guilds are like that
butthurt is strong in this one
Said tanks like tank DC (i play) and OP, can be taken down ONLY through CC.
1v5, if the team cannot flawlessly coordinate and dish out enough cc, they cannot kill the tank through pure DPS. Group vs one tank i mean. The amount of cc your group must dish out is the problem. If you can't, you might hit as hard as tiamat, it makes no difference.
While 2 players should already kill SLOWLY a tank that is, instead, immortal 1v1. Being unable to kill 1v1 means you are immortal 1v1. 2v1 you slowly die. 3v1, 4v1, 5v1 faster and faster you go down.
And the enemy team should be able to outdamage your healing as an option. So 2 gwfs on a op should be able to slowly kill him through pure, timed DPS. Right now, the op can sit at full hp forever in such situation. Same a tank DC.
Currently, only option is a massive amount of chain CC with no pause or the tank fully heals back/ gets invulnerable and heals back.
It only happens when piercing damage/ wheel are involved (making it broken mechanic vs broken mechanic).
I know playing my scrub tank DC and see geared players unable to kill me unless the chain cc me can make me laugh one or two times. But i can say it's not balanced.
Reduce cc needed to take tanks down, increase pure DPS effect on them if well timed. Also the team immortality is a valid point.
Being a support class they should shine in group fights, while fall if left alone back-capping, if 2 enemies go to deal with them.
Also: paladins are immortal 1v1 but can still SLOWLY kill you. Tank DC can't. It's shown in the data macjae posted. Tank DC is close to 1/1 k/d ratio. Opally is much higher, close to TR. Means they can indeed kill some while being immortal, where tank DC is immortal but deals literally not enough damage to even make your hp drop.
Also: f we have to slot different powers to deal with each class (leap for TR execution, roar for opally/tank DC, exc...) then i want a switchable multiple power bar.
Can't slot leap when i meet a TR, then comes and OP and i need to open power window and drag roar, then the TR is back, open again... you serious lol.
Might work in premades where you have a role and end up fighting the same guy/s most of the time. But in pug pvp where you fight all five enemies in a fast succession (often) it's just...terribile.
Would rather have sprint/unstoppable working as flat mitigation on SE if the timing is right, and the option to either mass cc or out-DPS the tank heals.
Stop the ap generation during that daily like every other class with long duration effects. Or put a cd on the daily itself. 50 seconds? Like hr dailies
Also Put a hard icd on the offhand daze.
Because yes a cc player cant use its powers but you cc a whole party with no icd standing still, just because you are wearing an artifact offhand.
so instead of demanding for a fix in CT that is not useable in some cases, or ask for the possibility to reduce a cooldown OF YOUR class you make complaints FOR ANOTHER class?
I told you not to take it personally and i did not want under any circumstances to frustrate you so
1st : chill
2nd: i also play a pally even though he is not my main and my problem is more when CT does not work or SANCTUARY does not than when another class does this or that
3rd : I never EVER advocate for nerfs when there are broken feats/enchants/dailies (BROKEN MEANS NOT WAI) in some classes , so i NEVER advocate for nerfs (Divine Judgement included). There is no worst thing for a person to waist time or money or both for a game he enjoys and the day after to be told "Tadaaa everything changed, you have to make it/build it AGAIN"
Peace
[/quote]
Even if that's not the place, i disagree with ya, i already met ya in dom, and yes, you trash talk.
And i even remember a DOM where my team was not able to kill ya, and u told them to call their paladin ( me ) because even a weak noob paladin would not kill ya ( the fact is that you cannot kill me, but i got a good memory, and ur name is writen on a paper )
That's weird how ppl change their mind, at the beginning ppl was laughing at us ( paladin ) now, they want us to litteraly die because they cant play like before.
KWeassa, at first i was not liking you, i was thinking, one more who wants to nerf all..
But u said something intersting, about the Sw, till the begining, i say that nerfing a class isnt the right way, but improve some other one was THE solution, and people should cry ant try to make their class better instead of trying to kill the classes of the other one.
I can attest to that, especially for you man.
And I can add that for some pvp guilds this was the 'Regular way' since the beginning of the pvp community on NW . As far as i know at least
Even if that's not the place, i disagree with ya, i already met ya in dom, and yes, you trash talk.
And i even remember a DOM where my team was not able to kill ya, and u told them to call their paladin ( me ) because even a weak noob paladin would not kill ya ( the fact is that you cannot kill me, but i got a good memory, and ur name is writen on a paper )
That's weird how ppl change their mind, at the beginning ppl was laughing at us ( paladin ) now, they want us to litteraly die because they cant play like before.
KWeassa, at first i was not liking you, i was thinking, one more who wants to nerf all..
But u said something intersting, about the Sw, till the begining, i say that nerfing a class isnt the right way, but improve some other one was THE solution, and people should cry ant try to make their class better instead of trying to kill the classes of the other one.[/quote]
we have to set a limit on what a tanky healing support class should be able to do.
if your standart is allowing a permament damage immunity to all your party with no cooldown, i m afraid no amount of buffs to other class willl ever overcome that thing.
And if any paladin prefer being with his team instead of tanking alone on a node, then it's because :
1 : he's a noob
2 : there is another paladin + a dc in the team
3 : he's a coward
We are not support, we are tank.
If the oppoment see the blue light, they also can split to the 2 other nodes, the paladin will not come on both.
If u see the blue light and manage to kill instead of caping somewhere else, then stop hiting the wrong target and all try to kill the paladin ( only if there is no dc near him ), trust me, it works.
I'm saying that this skill is actually almost a must have on pve, ask to nerf it cryptic will nerf for pvp AND pve.
indeed a pala can be cc-ed and probably killed if the whole enemy team isnt AOE cc-ed by that stupid offhand
you cannot asking nerf here ant there about paladin. even me reroll to other class.. since the class paladin now is boring.....super boring. Very very hard to get kill ( lvl 70 match ).. bc our super low damage. and very long to kill mobs in PvE.
even one time. i met same gear IL TR (around 3k). he laughing at my damage. LOL my DJ only 3k .......my atwill only like below 100 damage .. LOL. then we 1vs1 .. he can kill me after i ran out divine call skill. total match around 2 to 3 min. This match was watch to all the team member there. to see how paladin against tr in 1vs1.
its a HAMSTER, if you said you cant kill paladin 1vs1.
I'm 4,085k , there is absolutly no Tr in game that can kill me 1vs1 ( but they can troll me )
You still can kill, you just have to choose wisely your skill and your build, just you won't kill people like a tr or a gwf
I don't ask for more power, and i don't want another nerf
And people who always ask for a nerf because they are not able to kill 1 class are pathetic. before mod6 Tr was the class to kill, now it's op's turn. )
But IF there is another nerf, paladain needs a compensation.
Yes it is actually.
When a BiS (approx 4900 ilvl) and especially a striker class can kill with ease another (ANY class) with 2.5ilvl, you are talking x2 ilvl lol
Search for balance(or the lack of it) another way or ask a friend what balance is, Cause with this statement you dont prove imbalance but most importantly you indicate that there is balance when it might not be there at all
+1 here , especially the last sentence
it might be a lot of numbers but 2.5~2,6k paladin is half grim/half ilvl137, with perfect armor enchant and pure weapon enchant with epic artifacts and r7/r8 enchants. and its much closer in terms of overall stats than ilvl shows
Seriously??
They'd have problems with demonic/evil people winning in a game???
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
...ever met a T.Elven Battle paladin, rayr?
NOTHING.
- You can't outdamage its self healing
- You can't get any damage past his shield
- You can't CC him through immunity
- You can't stop his movement
- You can't stop him from his 1-min interval Divine Protector
- ...and if his shield is down for some reason, you can't CC him.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'