Please don't start this shameful argument here, it's bad enough all the "I'm not sexist, but..." crowd taint Jodie Whittakers WHO debut already, the same whiny crowd that complains abot Discovery's "bad marketing" - just don't. If you really are not bothered by any of this, simply don't mention it - nothing hurts you here. And if yo still feel the need to complain about it don't act all surprised when people call you out.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I can't stand her. Not as the Doctor, just as an actor in general. To say nothing of her stint as a 'comedian' (quotation marks well earnt).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Canonically, Time Lords can regenerate into different gender, Master into Missy ring a bell?
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
(...)To say nothing of her stint as a 'comedian' (quotation marks well earnt).
That's something that affects a lot of women, though. I feel that as a female comedian so many feel obligated to fit a certain niche - it's a mystery I cannot unravel, honestly.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
(...)To say nothing of her stint as a 'comedian' (quotation marks well earnt).
That's something that affects a lot of women, though. I feel that as a female comedian so many feel obligated to fit a certain niche - it's a mystery I cannot unravel, honestly.
Well she's not stand up, she's an actor but playing opposite Jennifer Saunders (so similar roles) I just can't find anything in her performance at all, regardless of the material.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Canonically, Time Lords can regenerate into different gender, Master into Missy ring a bell?
And the General in Hell Bent who turned into a female (and black) version after being shot by the Doctor.
Not seen Hell Bent yet,
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Ik however just seems suspicious after the PC infusion of the past few seasons of the doc, so though i personally like this change of pace i do think they did it less for a nice plot twist and more for PC imho.
no matter im gonna watch and if she rocks the part awesome though i hope they stop the moffat script wirtting.
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Ik however just seems suspicious after the PC infusion of the past few seasons of the doc, so though i personally like this change of pace i do think they did it less for a nice plot twist and more for PC imho.
no matter im gonna watch and if she rocks the part awesome though i hope they stop the moffat script wirtting.
Few seasons? You've never seen Doctor Who before in your life have you? Go watch some. Especially late Pertwee and early Baker.
PC or politics being new in Doctor Who HA!!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Ik however just seems suspicious after the PC infusion of the past few seasons of the doc, so though i personally like this change of pace i do think they did it less for a nice plot twist and more for PC imho.
no matter im gonna watch and if she rocks the part awesome though i hope they stop the moffat script wirtting.
Few seasons? You've never seen Doctor Who before in your life have you? Go watch some. Especially late Pertwee and early Baker.
PC or politics being new in Doctor Who HA!!
I have though you could be less condenscending and judgmental
Naw. I call @artan42 the condescending and judgemental artan. That's the trademark.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Ik however just seems suspicious after the PC infusion of the past few seasons of the doc, so though i personally like this change of pace i do think they did it less for a nice plot twist and more for PC imho.
no matter im gonna watch and if she rocks the part awesome though i hope they stop the moffat script wirtting.
Few seasons? You've never seen Doctor Who before in your life have you? Go watch some. Especially late Pertwee and early Baker.
PC or politics being new in Doctor Who HA!!
I have though you could be less condenscending and judgmental
I could. But I generally try to know something about a show I'm commenting on. Esspecally od it's as charged as this or DSC.
Edit: I was actually going for sardonic rather than condescension so I'm sorry you took it a different way to what was intended.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Sorry to interrupt, but this reminds me of that three part Mary Sue comic about the Kelvin-Timeline, where they crossed over into other franchises in the second and third parts. They team up with the Doctor of course, and he goes through all these cycles of the various incarnations, until he gets War and Capaldi. Then as the Big Bad is defeated, he gets a new regeneration post-Capaldi, who happens to be a blonde woman. Just seeing the teaser brought up memories of this... lol.
If one of her first lines isn't 'Still not Ginger!', I will be disappoint.
I'm honestly both excited and concerned for this new Doctor. On the one hand, it's an idea that's been around for a very long time, and is a welcome change of pace. On the other... If the writing isn't done right for her debut, it could get really awkward (and I mean more than is usual for the Doctor) really fast.
Either way, I'm tuning in! (Just as soon as I catch up with Capaldi's run. I only caught the first half of his first series before it went on hiatus).
I'll be watching it anyway. I'm a Who fan and will watch all the episodes regardless of how good or bad they are
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'm all for this and look forward to her take on the character. The amount of hate being spewed her way is sad though.
For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
Canonically, Time Lords can regenerate into different gender, Master into Missy ring a bell?
And the General in Hell Bent who turned into a female (and black) version after being shot by the Doctor.
I was about to mention that....and it was SHOWN ON SCREEN. I don't understand why it is such a big deal to some people.
last I checked doctor who was/is a nerd/geek/whatever IP. nerds and the like can be conservative enough to make the sternest of moral guardian tell them they need to chill out. that goes double if they think their "defending" their fandom. add anything even in the vaguest sense of hinting at a possible sjw type issue and well quite frankly the question isn't why is the subject is a big deal, it's why isn't it a bigger one.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Please don't start this shameful argument here, it's bad enough all the "I'm not sexist, but..." crowd taint Jodie Whittakers WHO debut already, the same whiny crowd that complains abot Discovery's "bad marketing" - just don't. If you really are not bothered by any of this, simply don't mention it - nothing hurts you here. And if yo still feel the need to complain about it don't act all surprised when people call you out.
I think it's a marketing problem, frankly. Since you brought up DSC, what's the first thing that was released about a character on DSC? It's not what this guy does on the ship (is he an engineer? a pilot? the chef?) or something about his backstory (does he have, I dunno, a granddad who fought in the Romulan War and inspired him to join Starfleet?), it's that he's g*y. The problem is not having a g*y character (frankly it's about damn time we had one), the problem is that from what we know of him, he is only "the g*y guy", not "the engineer with a war veteran granddad (who is also g*y)".
Same here: I could give a rat's TRIBBLE that the new Doctor is a woman, I want to know what's she like? Grumpy? Passionate? Motherly? All of the above? None of the above?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think it's a marketing problem, frankly. Since you brought up DSC, what's the first thing that was released about a character on DSC? It's not what this guy does on the ship (is he an engineer? a pilot? the chef?) or something about his backstory (does he have, I dunno, a granddad who fought in the Romulan War and inspired him to join Starfleet?), it's that he's g*y. The problem is not having a g*y character (frankly it's about damn time we had one), the problem is that from what we know of him, he is only "the g*y guy", not "the engineer with a war veteran granddad (who is also g*y)".
Same here: I could give a rat's **** that the new Doctor is a woman, I want to know what's she like? Grumpy? Passionate? Motherly? All of the above? None of the above?
I don't want to generalize, but those informations aren't revealed in an all straight cast beforehand either? Bits are published during the promotion but ultimately these are things you learn during the show's run, everything that is said before should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. What is immedeatly revealed is the actor's and thus character's ethnicity and that is of importance to minorities, especially in a country as obsessed with ethnicity as the USA are. Homosexuality isn't transpired by any external means and the actor is no factor either since homosexual actors usually play straight characters. So communicating it'll be a homosexual character in the show is a form of reveal that couldn't be handled otherwise since we can't look into the character's head.
If you ask why this is necessary in the first place and true inclusion is achieved through not treating ethnhicity or sexuality any way special I'd say that you are right in principle, the world isn't there just yet, though. Minorities face discrimination every single day which simply is a feeling I think there's a good chance that as a member of the majority one simply cannot understand. Why is it important to mention diversity in a show? Because this diversity then becomes part of the popular culture and thus something we deem "normal" - at some point it doesn't have to be promoted but is indeed normal which would be a happy day indeed. But currently that is not the case - minorities of different shapes have long missed popular role models especially for young people but isntead have faced horrible or even perverted clichés of what the majority considers them to be. If you face daily hostility for what you are, be it racism, homophobia or what have you, these characteristics you face these things for easily become features you define yourself with. I would assume a lot of people, if you asked them, would name their ethnicity, sex/gender or sexuality amongst their top 3 qualities they think defines them as a person, and none of these things should do that frankly. But it does because the society you face define you over these things, causing a lot of people to become defensive. Now communicating beforehand that a cast is being diversified sends the signal of establishing role models in popular culture on the way of achieving normality. This isn't - necessarily - bad marketing, it's simply something that might not be relevant for you, but for others. In this case, the information communicated doesn't influence you at all - nothing regarding the expetations or the actual enjoyment of the show changes. For some people though this is a signal of inclusion which is welcomed. For some people it provokes reactions of hatred but having the diversity in the show is the message of "we don't care about your hate, we include".
Maybe this helps to clear things up. If something doesn't affect you there is no reason to harp on it, even if for different reasons you easily fall into the same category of people spewing hatred if only in the recognition of the minority affected. For these affected these things can be powerful signals and reassurance though since we live in a time homosexual or diverse characters are possible and not censored. During TOS' run homosexuals actors still lost their career if they were to out themselves, that's not the case any more. It is of course foolish to assume everyone works the same and the same signals are interpreted the same way by everyone - I won't watch a show because it has a homoesexual character, but I very much like it's included and communicated. If the show doesn't offer anything worthwhile and this all was empty promotion we will know when it's time and judge the work in question accordingly and voice our opinion. Up to this point we should just keep a cool head though and maybe accept that not everything is about "us" but sometimes it may be for someone else, something "minorities" had to learn all their lives.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think it's a marketing problem, frankly. Since you brought up DSC, what's the first thing that was released about a character on DSC? It's not what this guy does on the ship (is he an engineer? a pilot? the chef?) or something about his backstory (does he have, I dunno, a granddad who fought in the Romulan War and inspired him to join Starfleet?), it's that he's g*y. The problem is not having a g*y character (frankly it's about damn time we had one), the problem is that from what we know of him, he is only "the g*y guy", not "the engineer with a war veteran granddad (who is also g*y)".
Same here: I could give a rat's **** that the new Doctor is a woman, I want to know what's she like? Grumpy? Passionate? Motherly? All of the above? None of the above?
I don't want to generalize, but those informations aren't revealed in an all straight cast beforehand either? Bits are published during the promotion but ultimately these are things you learn during the show's run, everything that is said before should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. What is immedeatly revealed is the actor's and thus character's ethnicity and that is of importance to minorities, especially in a country as obsessed with ethnicity as the USA are. Homosexuality isn't transpired by any external means and the actor is no factor either since homosexual actors usually play straight characters. So communicating it'll be a homosexual character in the show is a form of reveal that couldn't be handled otherwise since we can't look into the character's head.
If you ask why this is necessary in the first place and true inclusion is achieved through not treating ethnhicity or sexuality any way special I'd say that you are right in principle, the world isn't there just yet, though. Minorities face discrimination every single day which simply is a feeling I think there's a good chance that as a member of the majority one simply cannot understand. Why is it important to mention diversity in a show? Because this diversity then becomes part of the popular culture and thus something we deem "normal" - at some point it doesn't have to be promoted but is indeed normal which would be a happy day indeed. But currently that is not the case - minorities of different shapes have long missed popular role models especially for young people but isntead have faced horrible or even perverted clichés of what the majority considers them to be. If you face daily hostility for what you are, be it racism, homophobia or what have you, these characteristics you face these things for easily become features you define yourself with. I would assume a lot of people, if you asked them, would name their ethnicity, sex/gender or sexuality amongst their top 3 qualities they think defines them as a person, and none of these things should do that frankly. But it does because the society you face define you over these things, causing a lot of people to become defensive. Now communicating beforehand that a cast is being diversified sends the signal of establishing role models in popular culture on the way of achieving normality. This isn't - necessarily - bad marketing, it's simply something that might not be relevant for you, but for others. In this case, the information communicated doesn't influence you at all - nothing regarding the expetations or the actual enjoyment of the show changes. For some people though this is a signal of inclusion which is welcomed. For some people it provokes reactions of hatred but having the diversity in the show is the message of "we don't care about your hate, we include".
Maybe this helps to clear things up. If something doesn't affect you there is no reason to harp on it, even if for different reasons you easily fall into the same category of people spewing hatred if only in the recognition of the minority affected. For these affected these things can be powerful signals and reassurance though since we live in a time homosexual or diverse characters are possible and not censored. During TOS' run homosexuals actors still lost their career if they were to out themselves, that's not the case any more. It is of course foolish to assume everyone works the same and the same signals are interpreted the same way by everyone - I won't watch a show because it has a homoesexual character, but I very much like it's included and communicated. If the show doesn't offer anything worthwhile and this all was empty promotion we will know when it's time and judge the work in question accordingly and voice our opinion. Up to this point we should just keep a cool head though and maybe accept that not everything is about "us" but sometimes it may be for someone else, something "minorities" had to learn all their lives.
That's a Massive assumption though, and one I find highly suspect and unlikely. The top three qualities which define me: I'm a good listener, I'm helpful to others, and I have a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when they likely don't deserve it. (I could give just as many if not more qualities, such as being opinionated, uncompromising, relentless, and determined, for example) but I would never nevereverever allow my gender, ethnicity or sexuality define me, either to myself, or someone else (although I can be a bit of a stereotypically Shylock-ish Jew, which I attribute to the way I raised, and the lessons my mother instilled in me for frugality (when she wasn't dressing me in my big sister's dresses )
Like starsword said, the fact that all they've had to say about the character is that he's TRIBBLE (oh, and a fungal specialist) is a pretty weak approach, because that's Them (as in the producers) not having anything better to say about the character to make him relevent and worthy of mention, so as a practice, it's not a good one.
I don't care though, because The Orville looks TRIBBLE awesome
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You believe you "don't allow" your gender or sexuality to define you. Given that you can make a statement like that, I can infer that you are cishet, and probably male, because otherwise you'd know it's not a matter of you "defining yourself". Society makes assumptions about people based on such things as physical gender, psychological gender (not always the same thing - ask Caitlyn Jenner), sexual inclinations (justifiable in the case of, say, sheep fanciers, but humans tend to extend it to anything that's not like them), and even skin tone. (We've run into a number of people who assume that my wife, holder of two college degrees, is uneducated because her skin is approximately the shade of milk chocolate. It's even worse for her brother, who holds a Ph.D. in pharmacology and earned his JD last year.)
OTOH, Doctor Who is generally pretty good about that - Bill's appearance has never been mentioned, and her sexuality is only mentioned insofar as her preference in dates. And I doubt it's going to come up for the Doctor in the way a lot of Americans have been assuming; after all, few if any of the writers are American, so the social milieu in which they grew up is somewhat different from ours here in the States. The Doctor's physical gender is important to us, due to matters of representation, but is clearly less important to the Doctor, both due to "his" historical ignoring of such matters in Companions (with the notable exception of Rose, but c'mon - Billie Piper, y'all!) and due to the demonstrated fact that the Doctor isn't hung up on human notions of sexuality (as noted when Capt. Jack Harkness kissed Rose in the wake of some successful exploit or other, and the Doctor playfully complained about not getting one himself - and not objecting in the least when Jack turned his attentions on "him").
As for The Orville, the basic idea looks promising, at least for a short series (you can only spoof Star Trek for so long before the gag wears thin) - but given that it's a Seth MacFarlane production, I give it three episodes tops before we get such allegedly hilarious character "quirks" as the captain having chronic flatulence or one of the bridge crew being a "lovable" rapist and/or camp g*y.
@jonsills defining someone based on sexual inclinations - no matter what they are - isn't justifiable. That's nothing people choose, after all. But kudos to putting Billie Piper and sheep fanciers in one post - if it's intentional, well done (I won't go into details, though ). Otherwise I think I agree with you.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I said nothing of justifications, Targ. Judging my wife's intellect and educational level based on her appearance isn't justifiable, either. I merely cite the realities of the situation, which must be dealt with in this non-ideal world.
You believe you "don't allow" your gender or sexuality to define you. Given that you can make a statement like that, I can infer that you are cishet, and probably male, because otherwise you'd know it's not a matter of you "defining yourself". Society makes assumptions about people based on such things as physical gender, psychological gender (not always the same thing - ask Caitlyn Jenner), sexual inclinations (justifiable in the case of, say, sheep fanciers, but humans tend to extend it to anything that's not like them), and even skin tone. (We've run into a number of people who assume that my wife, holder of two college degrees, is uneducated because her skin is approximately the shade of milk chocolate. It's even worse for her brother, who holds a Ph.D. in pharmacology and earned his JD last year.)
No, I don't. It's that simple. I simply don't. And yes, I am indeed a cishet male. I'm also Jewish (the Other White Meat) But as I said to the targ, I don't allow any of those things to define me as a person, and if someone was to ask me to say something about myself as a person, again, I'd be using personality descriptors, before anything as mundane as 'straight white male' even crossed my mind to use to describe or define myself Now on a societal level, you're absolutely right, there are those who need to define themselves and others by a series of labels, but that's not a mindset I subscribe to
OTOH, Doctor Who is generally pretty good about that - Bill's appearance has never been mentioned, and her sexuality is only mentioned insofar as her preference in dates. And I doubt it's going to come up for the Doctor in the way a lot of Americans have been assuming; after all, few if any of the writers are American, so the social milieu in which they grew up is somewhat different from ours here in the States. The Doctor's physical gender is important to us, due to matters of representation, but is clearly less important to the Doctor, both due to "his" historical ignoring of such matters in Companions (with the notable exception of Rose, but c'mon - Billie Piper, y'all!) and due to the demonstrated fact that the Doctor isn't hung up on human notions of sexuality (as noted when Capt. Jack Harkness kissed Rose in the wake of some successful exploit or other, and the Doctor playfully complained about not getting one himself - and not objecting in the least when Jack turned his attentions on "him").
I haven't seen any of the stuff with Bill, as I'd already gotten a bit bored of Capaldi's guitar-toting, sunglass-wearing style, but I'm definitely keen to see a new Doctor, and there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the Doctor can't become female. The notion was, I believe, first stated as possible with reference to the Corsair, and the Sisterhood of Karn gave the 8th Doctor the option 'man or woman', when consciously choosing the outcome of his next regeneration. Then there was Missy, and I believe, in one episode, she said something about having known the Doctor since he was a little girl, so it's well established officially (albeit recently) that a TimeLord can change gender during a regeneration (and of course, there was the much earlier Moffatt-written, but possibly possibly 'less official' instance of Joanna Lumley as the Doctor at the end of The Curse of Fatal Death) I can honestly say, that the 13th Doctor being female, does not bother me in any way shape or form, and, given the changes made on the production team, I'm more optimistic than I was for Capaldi, because as they say, a new broom sweeps clean...
As for The Orville, the basic idea looks promising, at least for a short series (you can only spoof Star Trek for so long before the gag wears thin) - but given that it's a Seth MacFarlane production, I give it three episodes tops before we get such allegedly hilarious character "quirks" as the captain having chronic flatulence or one of the bridge crew being a "lovable" rapist and/or camp g*y.
It'll definitely be interesting to see how long it does play out before the gag wears thin, or, simply how the series progresses in finding its own feet
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"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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For me there is no hate though i think this change was done more for PC rather then a change of pace.
This idea of the Doctor becoming a woman has been around since Tom Baker's era, even he suggested it.
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My character Tsin'xing
I can't stand her. Not as the Doctor, just as an actor in general. To say nothing of her stint as a 'comedian' (quotation marks well earnt).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Canonically, Time Lords can regenerate into different gender, Master into Missy ring a bell?
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
That's something that affects a lot of women, though. I feel that as a female comedian so many feel obligated to fit a certain niche - it's a mystery I cannot unravel, honestly.
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And the General in Hell Bent who turned into a female (and black) version after being shot by the Doctor.
Well she's not stand up, she's an actor but playing opposite Jennifer Saunders (so similar roles) I just can't find anything in her performance at all, regardless of the material.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Not seen Hell Bent yet,
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Ik however just seems suspicious after the PC infusion of the past few seasons of the doc, so though i personally like this change of pace i do think they did it less for a nice plot twist and more for PC imho.
no matter im gonna watch and if she rocks the part awesome though i hope they stop the moffat script wirtting.
Few seasons? You've never seen Doctor Who before in your life have you? Go watch some. Especially late Pertwee and early Baker.
PC or politics being new in Doctor Who HA!!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I have though you could be less condenscending and judgmental
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I could. But I generally try to know something about a show I'm commenting on. Esspecally od it's as charged as this or DSC.
Edit: I was actually going for sardonic rather than condescension so I'm sorry you took it a different way to what was intended.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I'm honestly both excited and concerned for this new Doctor. On the one hand, it's an idea that's been around for a very long time, and is a welcome change of pace. On the other... If the writing isn't done right for her debut, it could get really awkward (and I mean more than is usual for the Doctor) really fast.
Either way, I'm tuning in! (Just as soon as I catch up with Capaldi's run. I only caught the first half of his first series before it went on hiatus).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I was about to mention that....and it was SHOWN ON SCREEN. I don't understand why it is such a big deal to some people.
last I checked doctor who was/is a nerd/geek/whatever IP. nerds and the like can be conservative enough to make the sternest of moral guardian tell them they need to chill out. that goes double if they think their "defending" their fandom. add anything even in the vaguest sense of hinting at a possible sjw type issue and well quite frankly the question isn't why is the subject is a big deal, it's why isn't it a bigger one.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I think it's a marketing problem, frankly. Since you brought up DSC, what's the first thing that was released about a character on DSC? It's not what this guy does on the ship (is he an engineer? a pilot? the chef?) or something about his backstory (does he have, I dunno, a granddad who fought in the Romulan War and inspired him to join Starfleet?), it's that he's g*y. The problem is not having a g*y character (frankly it's about damn time we had one), the problem is that from what we know of him, he is only "the g*y guy", not "the engineer with a war veteran granddad (who is also g*y)".
Same here: I could give a rat's TRIBBLE that the new Doctor is a woman, I want to know what's she like? Grumpy? Passionate? Motherly? All of the above? None of the above?
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I don't want to generalize, but those informations aren't revealed in an all straight cast beforehand either? Bits are published during the promotion but ultimately these are things you learn during the show's run, everything that is said before should be taken with a grain of salt anyway. What is immedeatly revealed is the actor's and thus character's ethnicity and that is of importance to minorities, especially in a country as obsessed with ethnicity as the USA are. Homosexuality isn't transpired by any external means and the actor is no factor either since homosexual actors usually play straight characters. So communicating it'll be a homosexual character in the show is a form of reveal that couldn't be handled otherwise since we can't look into the character's head.
If you ask why this is necessary in the first place and true inclusion is achieved through not treating ethnhicity or sexuality any way special I'd say that you are right in principle, the world isn't there just yet, though. Minorities face discrimination every single day which simply is a feeling I think there's a good chance that as a member of the majority one simply cannot understand. Why is it important to mention diversity in a show? Because this diversity then becomes part of the popular culture and thus something we deem "normal" - at some point it doesn't have to be promoted but is indeed normal which would be a happy day indeed. But currently that is not the case - minorities of different shapes have long missed popular role models especially for young people but isntead have faced horrible or even perverted clichés of what the majority considers them to be. If you face daily hostility for what you are, be it racism, homophobia or what have you, these characteristics you face these things for easily become features you define yourself with. I would assume a lot of people, if you asked them, would name their ethnicity, sex/gender or sexuality amongst their top 3 qualities they think defines them as a person, and none of these things should do that frankly. But it does because the society you face define you over these things, causing a lot of people to become defensive. Now communicating beforehand that a cast is being diversified sends the signal of establishing role models in popular culture on the way of achieving normality. This isn't - necessarily - bad marketing, it's simply something that might not be relevant for you, but for others. In this case, the information communicated doesn't influence you at all - nothing regarding the expetations or the actual enjoyment of the show changes. For some people though this is a signal of inclusion which is welcomed. For some people it provokes reactions of hatred but having the diversity in the show is the message of "we don't care about your hate, we include".
Maybe this helps to clear things up. If something doesn't affect you there is no reason to harp on it, even if for different reasons you easily fall into the same category of people spewing hatred if only in the recognition of the minority affected. For these affected these things can be powerful signals and reassurance though since we live in a time homosexual or diverse characters are possible and not censored. During TOS' run homosexuals actors still lost their career if they were to out themselves, that's not the case any more. It is of course foolish to assume everyone works the same and the same signals are interpreted the same way by everyone - I won't watch a show because it has a homoesexual character, but I very much like it's included and communicated. If the show doesn't offer anything worthwhile and this all was empty promotion we will know when it's time and judge the work in question accordingly and voice our opinion. Up to this point we should just keep a cool head though and maybe accept that not everything is about "us" but sometimes it may be for someone else, something "minorities" had to learn all their lives.
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Like starsword said, the fact that all they've had to say about the character is that he's TRIBBLE (oh, and a fungal specialist) is a pretty weak approach, because that's Them (as in the producers) not having anything better to say about the character to make him relevent and worthy of mention, so as a practice, it's not a good one.
I don't care though, because The Orville looks TRIBBLE awesome
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
OTOH, Doctor Who is generally pretty good about that - Bill's appearance has never been mentioned, and her sexuality is only mentioned insofar as her preference in dates. And I doubt it's going to come up for the Doctor in the way a lot of Americans have been assuming; after all, few if any of the writers are American, so the social milieu in which they grew up is somewhat different from ours here in the States. The Doctor's physical gender is important to us, due to matters of representation, but is clearly less important to the Doctor, both due to "his" historical ignoring of such matters in Companions (with the notable exception of Rose, but c'mon - Billie Piper, y'all!) and due to the demonstrated fact that the Doctor isn't hung up on human notions of sexuality (as noted when Capt. Jack Harkness kissed Rose in the wake of some successful exploit or other, and the Doctor playfully complained about not getting one himself - and not objecting in the least when Jack turned his attentions on "him").
As for The Orville, the basic idea looks promising, at least for a short series (you can only spoof Star Trek for so long before the gag wears thin) - but given that it's a Seth MacFarlane production, I give it three episodes tops before we get such allegedly hilarious character "quirks" as the captain having chronic flatulence or one of the bridge crew being a "lovable" rapist and/or camp g*y.
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I haven't seen any of the stuff with Bill, as I'd already gotten a bit bored of Capaldi's guitar-toting, sunglass-wearing style, but I'm definitely keen to see a new Doctor, and there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the Doctor can't become female. The notion was, I believe, first stated as possible with reference to the Corsair, and the Sisterhood of Karn gave the 8th Doctor the option 'man or woman', when consciously choosing the outcome of his next regeneration. Then there was Missy, and I believe, in one episode, she said something about having known the Doctor since he was a little girl, so it's well established officially (albeit recently) that a TimeLord can change gender during a regeneration (and of course, there was the much earlier Moffatt-written, but possibly possibly 'less official' instance of Joanna Lumley as the Doctor at the end of The Curse of Fatal Death) I can honestly say, that the 13th Doctor being female, does not bother me in any way shape or form, and, given the changes made on the production team, I'm more optimistic than I was for Capaldi, because as they say, a new broom sweeps clean...
It'll definitely be interesting to see how long it does play out before the gag wears thin, or, simply how the series progresses in finding its own feet
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth