Unofficial Literary Challenge #13 Discussion Thread

[Deleted User] · July 2015

This is the discussion thread for Unofficial Literary Challenge #13: In A.D. 2410, War Was Beginning.

As usual please be honest and polite.

P.S. I refuse to apologize for the Zero Wing reference.

gulberat · July 2015

Hmmm...the "odd couple" topic was pretty much every interaction a lot of members of the 77th Fleet had with ConOps in Faces in the Flames.

BOFF stories, though...that could get somewhere. I can think of a few options, but not sure which one I want to work with yet.

worffan101 · July 2015

First one Starsword and I are already doing (complete with an Iconian hoisting himself by his own petard via a temper tantrum, and of course SHLIFFG being preposterously hammy), second one my only idea is a "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs" one-shot with Stadi and Evek after the events of the story proper, and for #3...

Well, I have some ideas, but I've mostly covered them, unfortunately.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

gulberat wrote: »

Hmmm...the "odd couple" topic was pretty much every interaction a lot of members of the 77th Fleet had with ConOps in Faces in the Flames.

I was actually wondering if you might want to try and write that Eleya/Berat piece we keep theorizing about. I dunno what we'd do with it...

worffan101 wrote: »

First one Starsword and I are already doing (complete with an Iconian hoisting himself by his own petard via a temper tantrum, and of course SHLIFFG being preposterously hammy), second one my only idea is a "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs" one-shot with Stadi and Evek after the events of the story proper, and for #3...

Well, I have some ideas, but I've mostly covered them, unfortunately.

Well, I've covered several of Eleya’s team and and one of Brokosh's (two, if I can get that story I was trying to write for the redux finished), but I think I want to do that one as maybe a double feature: possibly Tess from the Bajor and Sahuel from the Aen'rhien.

worffan101 · July 2015

ooh, that would be cool...

Hmmm...maybe there are some ways to do this one.

cmdrscarlet · July 2015

Damn. #3 leaps out for me as I have been building the attitude of my XO. With her Than (?) on board as well, then there may be an interesting story back there ...

jonnaroslyn · July 2015

The things I could write for #3... I'd never finish!

antonine3258 · July 2015

3 I might be able to do good works with - I've a sci boff a char doesn't use much anymore, and I've sort of headcanonly promoted her.

jonsills · July 2015

#1 may be what I need to get Grunt&Co out of the corner I wrote them into - could even combine with #2, if he has to work with his would-be assassin to fight the Herald Invasion...

Or it might work with another captain. Great Bird knows I've got enough of 'em, from my old-school-style main to a Romulan who's only in the Republic Fleet because that means D'Tan will pay for her ship, and doesn't give a rancid flip about matters military. (Tovan Khev doesn't count - he's mostly there to annoy people who hate Tovan Khev. I rerolled him as a Delta Recruit, too, and his bridge team is now Tovan Khev2, Tovan Khev3, Rinna Khev, and the Reman Rinna NotKhev.)

Oh, and Gradii, trolling a Literary Challenge is beneath you.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

^Glad to hear we might see more of Grunt at long last!

jonsills wrote: »

Oh, and Gradii, trolling a Literary Challenge is beneath you.

Eh, I was gonna complain, but I'm the one who opened that door... ETA: I was considering calling it "Lucky Thirteen", but then somehow I flashed on Zero Wing when I found ambassadormolari's prompt.

Maybe I'll just ask Trendy to move that post to the discussion thread.

worffan101 · July 2015

Stalled on ideas, but trying to do something for #1. Got vague ideas for Rachel grumpily getting her butt kicked by Heralds, but not sure how to do it or what point it would have.

cmdrscarlet · July 2015

Hmm. I may not focus on #3. I have brewed ideas for all of them! That would be a writing coup for me.

jonsills · July 2015

It came together - a bit short, but I was hoping to keep it to a single post under the new rules.

Please to enjoy Rule 88, pt 2: The Enemy of My Enemy.

Jon's post, supplemental: How embarrassing! The formatting was off for the first half of the story, and I didn't even realize it until just now! Hopefully it'll flow a little better, although it's still a tad clipped...

guljarol · July 2015

"Prompt #2: "The Odd Couple" tempts me with making my Rep Rom and RSE Rom co-operate. That should be interesting; they're on polar ends of age, political allegiance, and... control of their emotions

[Deleted User] · July 2015

jonsills wrote: »

It came together - a bit short, but I was hoping to keep it to a single post under the new rules.

Please to enjoy Rule 88, pt 2: The Enemy of My Enemy.

I'll see your Rule 88 and raise you Maxim 29. "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less."

A little abrupt but a good way out of whatever corner you wrote yourself into. I enjoyed it.

jonsills · July 2015

StarSword-C wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

It came together - a bit short, but I was hoping to keep it to a single post under the new rules.

Please to enjoy Rule 88, pt 2: The Enemy of My Enemy.

I'll see your Rule 88 and raise you Maxim 29. "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less."

<finger wagging> Spoilers!

[Deleted User] · July 2015

jonsills wrote: »

StarSword-C wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

It came together - a bit short, but I was hoping to keep it to a single post under the new rules.

Please to enjoy Rule 88, pt 2: The Enemy of My Enemy.

I'll see your Rule 88 and raise you Maxim 29. "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more, no less."

<finger wagging> Spoilers!

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Just popped in my head when I read the title.

antonine3258 · July 2015

Fast story - jonsills, I'm not sure why, but the dinner admission fee really amused me.

cmdrscarlet · July 2015

@jonsills - This inspired me for that prompt. Also, this was blissfully short and sweet. It also explains how weapons suddenly appear in Kathryn's hands in-game, so YOINK to that idea.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

For the "Odd Couple" prompt, "Past Continuous" by me and gulberat.

gulberat · July 2015

Definitely enjoyed working on this piece.

BTW, it seems the swear filter has censored k.n.o.b, while describing the act of opening a door. O_O

jonsills · July 2015

I wonder if it'll censor doorknob. That's just dumb. In what dialect is that an objectionable word??

Great story, by the way. I loved the ending.

Jon's post, supplemental: No, that word's okay. But TRIBBLE isn't. What the phekk?

ryan218 · July 2015

@gulberat @starswordc That was a brilliant piece of work! Seeing the meeting between Berat and Kanril was a really neat experience.

Although, six-figure bounty? Kanril, please, Commander Allington almost got executed by the True Way!

Oh, also, how do you do the spoiler tag on these forums. First time I've had to use them.

gulberat · July 2015

Jonsills, glad you liked it! Though I do not imagine Berat as the player character since it makes more sense for him to be leading a fleet in from 75-Tau during Boldly They Rode, I do imagine him as being present when the Dominion first came through the wormhole. And before that, I imagine the player character delegating the task of dealing with a certain individual to Berat, assuming Berat can get that done smoothly.

Oops!

ryan218 wrote: »

@gulberat @starswordc That was a brilliant piece of work! Seeing the meeting between Berat and Kanril was a really neat experience.
Although, six-figure bounty? Kanril, please, Commander Allington almost got executed by the True Way!

Oh, also, how do you do the spoiler tag on these forums. First time I've had to use them.

To make the spoiler tags work, use [ brackets ] instead of doing it like HTML.

And I am glad you enjoyed their meeting! There aren't a lot of big fireworks like the prompt might suggest, but Starsword and I have been wanting to see those two interact for a long time. They have more in common than either of them would think--though they still have their differences--than people would first realize.

If Berat had to face Allington, he would feel *horrible.* Both due to flashbacks, and horror and shame at what was done to Allington.

ryan218 · July 2015

gulberat wrote: »

ryan218 wrote: »

@gulberat @starswordc That was a brilliant piece of work! Seeing the meeting between Berat and Kanril was a really neat experience.

<spoiler>Although, six-figure bounty? Kanril, please, Commander Allington almost got executed by the True Way! </spoiler>

Oh, also, how do you do the spoiler tag on these forums. First time I've had to use them.

To make the spoiler tags work, use [ brackets ] instead of doing it like HTML.

And I am glad you enjoyed their meeting! There aren't a lot of big fireworks like the prompt might suggest, but Starsword and I have been wanting to see those two interact for a long time. They have more in common than either of them would think--though they still have their differences--than people would first realize.

If Berat had to face Allington, he would feel *horrible.* Both due to flashbacks, and horror and shame at what was done to Allington.

Thanks, that did the trick!

I liked the subtle tension that was in their discussion early on, and I loved Berat's collected lack of response to the rioters (seriously, it may as well have been a riot. If that had been in Britain, the local officials would have the Riot Act in hand and ready to read at that point).

By the way, Part Three of 'Moving On' is up and ready to view as of a few hours ago. Only reason I'm not doing the prompts for this ULC is because this part has Prompt 3 in part and the Iconian Invasion hasn't started from Ryan's perspective yet.

gulberat · July 2015

Berat knows why the Bajorans are angry...plus he is almost 80 (in my works, picture a Cardassian with Dukat's age), meaning he Bajorans would know he was in service during the Occupation era. How could they know he was never sent to Bajor?

He wasn't as collected as it might have seemed from the exterior...he was actually suffering flashbacks from the execution of his family as the result of a power struggle in Central Command back in 2369 (an event that takes place in the book I originally got Berat from--Betrayal, by Lois Tilton).

BTW, as a funny note, it was only in the last few years that I learned the Riot Act actually existed and that there was literally a ritual for reading it. In the U.S. we use the saying and many have no idea because the Riot Act does precede the Revolutionary War, but our own statutes don't go by that name, and are possibly a bit more tightly construed than in the UK, in light of the First Amendment. Though I don't think throwing things at people would be taken well over here, either.

I saw the new segment, but I will have to give you a proper response in a few hours.

ryan218 · July 2015

gulberat wrote: »

Berat knows why the Bajorans are angry...plus he is almost 80 (in my works, picture a Cardassian with Dukat's age), meaning he Bajorans would know he was in service during the Occupation era. How could they know he was never sent to Bajor?

He wasn't as collected as it might have seemed from the exterior...he was actually suffering flashbacks from the execution of his family as the result of a power struggle in Central Command back in 2369 (an event that takes place in the book I originally got Berat from--Betrayal, by Lois Tilton).

BTW, as a funny note, it was only in the last few years that I learned the Riot Act actually existed and that there was literally a ritual for reading it. In the U.S. we use the saying and many have no idea because the Riot Act does precede the Revolutionary War, but our own statutes don't go by that name, and are possibly a bit more tightly construed than in the UK, in light of the First Amendment. Though I don't think throwing things at people would be taken well over here, either.

I saw the new segment, but I will have to give you a proper response in a few hours.

To be honest, judging by what we saw in DS9, the Bajorans probably wouldn't care either way. Remember Zhiyal?

Yeah, the Riot Act hasn't actually been used in a major UK city (I don't believe) since the 1920/30s... The ritual is basically something Sir Robert Peel came up with in the 19th Century, where the act would be read out to the crowd, before waiting 30 minutes, at which point the army (this was before the Police Force went national) arrived to restore order. It hasn't been used in recent years because the Police have always been used to restore order. Like many things in our legal system, however, it is still technically available.

At any rate, I can definitely see why Berat would be having trouble containing his emotions. I got the impression his reference to an execution was more than just an idle thought. However, credit where credit's due, at least he kept it inside.

gulberat · July 2015

To be honest, judging by what we saw in DS9, the Bajorans probably wouldn't care either way. Remember Zhiyal?

I dunno. Even Ziyal suggests she was not fully welcome with Bajorans--and that even as someone who was every bit as much of a victim as the Bajorans were (being the product of TRIBBLE and having no control over her circumstances).

At any rate, I can definitely see why Berat would be having trouble containing his emotions. I got the impression his reference to an execution was more than just an idle thought. However, credit where credit's due, at least he kept it inside.

Dealing with PTSD is never easy, even 40 years on--though he is certainly functional, which certainly shows that is a realistic hope for Ryan.

The eidetic memory can be particularly challenging for Cardassians with PTSD though, and based on what I saw on the show, I suspect that treatment only really developed after the Dominion War, because I would imagine it was considered unpatriotic to seek help before then, unless you came by your PTSD under the "right" circumstances.

That makes Berat doubly fortunate since he probably could not seek help even when a regime more favorable came back into power in '69.

ryan218 · July 2015

gulberat wrote: »

To be honest, judging by what we saw in DS9, the Bajorans probably wouldn't care either way. Remember Zhiyal?

I dunno. Even Ziyal suggests she was not fully welcome with Bajorans--and that even as someone who was every bit as much of a victim as the Bajorans were (being the product of TRIBBLE and having no control over her circumstances).

At any rate, I can definitely see why Berat would be having trouble containing his emotions. I got the impression his reference to an execution was more than just an idle thought. However, credit where credit's due, at least he kept it inside.

Dealing with PTSD is never easy, even 40 years on--though he is certainly functional, which certainly shows that is a realistic hope for Ryan. The eidetic memory can be particularly challenging for Cardassians with PTSD though, and based on what I saw on the show, I suspect that treatment only really developed after the Dominion War, because I would imagine it was considered unpatriotic to seek help before then, unless you came by your PTSD under the "right" circumstances. That makes Berat doubly fortunate since he probably could not seek help even when a regime more favorable came back into power in '69.

I meant they'd probably still persecute him, like Zhiyal.

But yeah, it would make sense that treatment for PTSD would be a post-Dominion War innovation for Cardassia, given it took WWI for us to begin treating PTSD...

[Deleted User] · July 2015

Glad you guys enjoyed the story!

And yes, the initial tension between them was really important. While Eleya wasn't born until after the Dominion War and so knows the Cardassian ancien regime only by reputation, she still has some degree of nationalist views (not to the extent of wanting Bajor to outright secede, but rather for Bajor to maintain cultural autonomy from Earth where possible), and was raised by an ex-Resistance father and got her initial training and indoctrination in an organization whose mission statement is that Bajor must never again come under military occupation. So a lifelong Cardassian civilian or emigre, as with her bartender Nalak Lang, is one thing. A commissioned officer who served in the prewar Cardassian Guard? That's something else.

At the same time though, as I noted in-story, the military part of her says, like it or not, this is my superior officer, and besides that he might know something useful that I don't.

Eleya's job in this whole thing was mainly to be the liaison between the different groups taking part in Operation Whimsical Targ*, a job she was assigned because of her unique background: she served in the Militia and still has contacts in their brass, as a decorated Starfleet officer she's a good choice to work that end of things, and the Klingons respect her because of her proficiency as a soldier against them (i.e. she's very good at killing Klingons) and because she doesn't beat around the bush with flowery language. But still, it's an incredibly difficult job when you're having trouble with Bajoran internal politics and having to work with somebody you've been at war with for five years, and now here comes this Cardassian...

I also really liked their contrasting viewpoints on the protest/angry mob, which was something I wasn't expecting but it worked really well.

* As gulberat put it when we were writing, "Oh, my, the universal translator was not having a good day..."

gulberat wrote: »

Berat knows why the Bajorans are angry...plus he is almost 80 (in my works, picture a Cardassian with Dukat's age), meaning he Bajorans would know he was in service during the Occupation era. How could they know he was never sent to Bajor?

He wasn't as collected as it might have seemed from the exterior...he was actually suffering flashbacks from the execution of his family as the result of a power struggle in Central Command back in 2369 (an event that takes place in the book I originally got Berat from--Betrayal, by Lois Tilton).

Another bit of commonality between them. Blink and you'll miss the reference, but Eleya was having a bit of a flashback to some unpleasant events of the Federation-Klingon War when she was dealing with Kagran.

In a story I'm working on, she took part in the liberation of a Klingon POW camp, the commandant of which she ordered tried for crimes against sentience.

And of course, she still has a recurring nightmare about her first time in combat against the Orion Syndicate.

One other note, this story is written sort of Masterverse-agnostic. sander233 envisioned Jesu LaRoca as being the guy who did the crazy EVA onto DS9 and we were careful not to conflict with that or anything else from the Masterverse, but we didn't give any actual dates or directly mention anybody but Admiral ch'Harrell nor which ship Eleya was in command of, which means this story is compatible with Gulberat's and my own continuities as well.

gulberat · July 2015

What didn't make it into the story was my idea that the term used to translate "whimsical" into Cardassian (as if imagining how it would come across to a Klingon wasn't bad enough) translated to something like "slapstick" or "stupid." Given how the Cardassians tend to think of Klingons (about as "well" as Eleya thinks of them, if not worse), that either horribly awful, or horribly "appropriate."

Good thing Eleya's father wasn't in the room. Much like if he'd had to deal with Ryan Allington, I'm sure Berat would feel bad about it even though he wasn't there. He'd hate being personally accused as if he did it...but still, he would feel shame for what Cardassia as a whole did.

Regardless of whether I'd written for the Masterverse, knowing where 75-Tau is and what kinds of forces are there means that from my perspective it is strategically wiser to use Berat to lead the attack fleet in from the Argolis Cluster, than to risk him on the EVA. It's actually the same reason Kurland wasn't put in that position. For all the garbage people give Kurland, the smart thing is to protect him because should it become necessary to destroy the station, he's the one who knows its weaknesses the best, to be able to tell you how to do it.

Unofficial Literary Challenge #13 Discussion Thread

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