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Mk XII Kit Modules for Standard Kit Powers do not Appear on the Exchange

mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
edited May 2014 in PC Gameplay Bug Reports
ticket ID #2,467,522

Mark XII kit modules for the standard kit powers (powers that existed prior to season 9) do not show up in searches on the exchange.

1. Set price filter to Descending (these should be among the most expensive modules)
2a. Set rank to Rear Admiral Upper Half
2b. Leave the Quality filter at Any Quality (the quality filter is broken in the All category)
3. Search the All category for the following terms:
"assault kit module"
"strategic kit module"
"medic kit module"
"research kit module"
"mechanic kit module"
"fabrication kit module"

4. Repeat steps 1-3, changing rank to Vice Admiral

Actual results: Plenty of X and XI modules are found at RAUH but no XII modules. Only lockbox modules are found at VA.

Expected results: Mk XII modules of standard kit powers appear in exchange search results.

Additional notes: There is ONE exception to this bug, and that is Common quality Medic Kit Module - Biofilter Sweep Mk XII. That is the ONLY one that will appear.

Searching for each individual module also produces no results, except for Common Biofilter Sweep.


More troubleshooting details from others in this thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1107531
Joined January 2009
Finger wrote:
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I've been informed that the common biofilter sweep module is actually obtained from a kit turn in, with a module that doesn't properly bind on pickup which allows for its sale. This makes me think my original hypothesis from the linked thread, that XII modules simply don't exist in the loot table at all, is the correct one.
    no09dysonsphere wrote: »
    The white biofilter sweep mk xii module comes from turning in the old spire science kit - you get a new kit with 5 modules and that's one of them. It also happens to be unbound and pretty useless so there's an incentive to pull it out and sell it. I've been running ground farm missions and if mk xii modules drop I haven't seen any yet. I too would like confirmation that 1) VR mk xii modules do drop and 2) running elite modes improves the drop rate.
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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    pwstolemynamepwstolemyname Member Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    mightybobcnc wrote: »
    I've been informed that the common biofilter sweep module is actually obtained from a kit turn in, with a module that doesn't properly bind on pickup which allows for its sale.

    Not sure why any one would buy biofilter sweep. Now that we have the choice to not use it at all any more I am sure cryptic's much loved metrics are going to show nobody ever using this ability ever.

    Now If it had gotten the same treatment the hypospray abilities did, so that it now purged all de-buffs maybe it might be used once in a while. But as it stands I expect cryptics metrics to be showing a sharp decline in player use.

    Sorry off topic... exchange is still useless when it comes to kit modules, please fix.
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    pwstolemyname wrote: »
    Not sure why any one would buy biofilter sweep. Now that we have the choice to not use it at all any more I am sure cryptic's much loved metrics are going to show nobody ever using this ability ever.

    Now If it had gotten the same treatment the hypospray abilities did, so that it now purged all de-buffs maybe it might be used once in a while. But as it stands I expect cryptics metrics to be showing a sharp decline in player use.

    Sorry off topic... exchange is still useless when it comes to kit modules, please fix.

    Biofilter Sweep is now extremely effective in PvP directly due to the kit revamp. My Science officer can provide +53 all damage resistance rating to the entire team for 15 seconds. That is great protection against environmental damage and damage resistance debuffs.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    mightybobcnc wrote: »
    I've been informed that the common biofilter sweep module is actually obtained from a kit turn in, with a module that doesn't properly bind on pickup which allows for its sale. This makes me think my original hypothesis from the linked thread, that XII modules simply don't exist in the loot table at all, is the correct one.

    The trade-in version of "Spire Science Kit - Medic Mk XII" should probably come with green "Biofilter Sweep Mk XII" instead of white. This is similar to the bug where "Romulan Engineering Kit - Fabrication Specialist Mk XII" comes with Mk XI modules instead of Mk XII.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1089701
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1090071
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Hmm so SOMEthing fishy is up. Either they don't show up in the exchange properly, or they're not in the loot table at all. Because according to Jeff they should be.
    adjudicatorhawk wrote: »
    With regards to Seeker Drone Fabrication Mk XII and Forcefield Dome Mk XII, fighting high level ground critters on Elite are your best bet to generate these drops.

    And the side issues of rarity search busted in All, and the "Spire Science Kit - Medic Mk XII" biofilter sweep trade-in issue.
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Okay so, an entire tier of gear seems to be missing in action and there's no acknowledgement about this?
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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    smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Mk XII standard powers don't exist, unless you already had that power on your fleet kit when you traded it in. I think it is to provide a little bit of exclusivity to players who were around before the change and made the effort to get a kit which would be made obsolete afterwards. The difference is rather minimal, and there are other fleet, rep and lockbox options available anyway.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
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    drake122svkdrake122svk Member Posts: 731 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah for example there is no way to get a Mk XII purple version of Dylovene... as in, it's not in the game? ... unless I'm missing something here?
    https://www.youtube.com/Drake122
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    as of yet alot of players doing stf after stf to gain a chance at a purple kit drop have only gained purple xi, we cant even be sure mk xii modules are drops at all currently all xii are fleet versions the xii module bio filter sweep is from fleet medic kit trade in and is sellable as it is a common which do not bind on equip/after trade in.

    So far as we know only xi modules are drops xii are fleet and probably the next fleet holding will fill in the rest of the xii modules, most likely in season 10 or season 9.5 if we have another .5 like season 8.5 the first one.
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    crypticfrostcrypticfrost Member Posts: 1,479 Cryptic Developer
    edited May 2014
    This looks to just be a case of there not yet being many Mk XIIs in circulation.
    STO QA Team
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    druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    This looks to just be a case of there not yet being many Mk XIIs in circulation.

    Would help if your Exchange wasn't horribly broken / under-developed. There are no categories for the new Kit stuff for instance. But even before that, the Exchange would often "break" if you chose a Rank and/or Quality selection. And the "All" category is on a 50/50 chance of working from one day to the next.

    One wonders when the Exchange will be properly fixed, rather than the band-aid, after band-aid that it's received over the years. Look at new ESD. That's how you fix things: Throw out the old, in with the new.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    smokeybacon90 wrote: »
    The Mk XII standard powers don't exist, unless you already had that power on your fleet kit when you traded it in. I think it is to provide a little bit of exclusivity to players who were around before the change and made the effort to get a kit which would be made obsolete afterwards. The difference is rather minimal, and there are other fleet, rep and lockbox options available anyway.

    A dev has already said that Mk XII kit modules are supposed to drop, so it can't be intentional.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16826491&postcount=7
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    This looks to just be a case of there not yet being many Mk XIIs in circulation.

    You should really consider how unlikely this is. Not one Mk XII module (except from lockboxes and trade-in kits) in the entire time since Season 9 was released? Not even white ones? Not even for the unpopular powers?
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    You should really consider how unlikely this is. Not one Mk XII module (except from lockboxes and trade-in kits) in the entire time since Season 9 was released? Not even white ones? Not even for the unpopular powers?

    This. If there truly is nothing wrong with the exchange search (meaning there are indeed 0 listed at all, of any quality, even the unpopular ones) and they are indeed properly part of the loot drop table, then the drop rate must surely be infinitesimally small which seems like an error considering the tens or hundreds of thousands of players that may have a chance to get one as a drop, for an entire month.

    This is like the Drake Equation..
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

    Given X number of players, killing Y number of mobs of the appropriate level and difficulty, over a span of Z days (nearly 30), there should be at least a sparse handful of drops. Further, given that A% of these drops will be placed onto the exchange by players that either don't want them or know that an XII module will sell for big bucks, and that only B% of those placed on the exchange will be of an agreeable price to anyone but the biggest millionaires and billionaires in STO, then at least SOME number of them should be visible in an exchange search.
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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    smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    We did encounter something similar to this with Mk XII standard warp cores, which were (and still are) extremely rare, and only a few appeared on the exchange. This defied the drop rates by rarity, implying that perhaps their existence was a mistake. Can we get a dev who really knows about the kit loot tables to confirm whether or not these Mk XII kits are meant to exist?
    EnYn9p9.jpg
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    crypticfrostcrypticfrost Member Posts: 1,479 Cryptic Developer
    edited May 2014
    Let me note that when I replied above it was after one of the QA team checked on Holodeck and found about 20 Mk XII Kit Modules listed in the Exchange. So they are dropping and are being listed on the Exchange, there's just not a lot of them being listed at this time.
    STO QA Team
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I'm probably not going to phrase this right, but... for things that aren't categorized (that only appear in the "All" category), it seems to me that it takes the "index" (or whatever) of the exchange quite a while to catch up. Like, it won't display uncategorized items on a search until the number of them crosses a certain threshold.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    Let me note that when I replied above it was after one of the QA team checked on Holodeck and found about 20 Mk XII Kit Modules listed in the Exchange. So they are dropping and are being listed on the Exchange, there's just not a lot of them being listed at this time.

    Please tell me what they searched for. Were the modules from lockboxes? Were the modules white "Biofilter Sweep Mk XII"? Please note that we have already ruled out these cases. See the following posts for more information.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16834811&postcount=9
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16850911&postcount=19
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16871631&postcount=26
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I did another exhaustive search to see if anything has changed since my last search on May 8, 2014. I searched for every module listed on this page. I set the rank to "Any Rank", the quality to "Any Quality, and "Item Type" to "All". In each case, I searched for Mk XI before Mk XII to make sure that I did not type the search term incorrectly. The only Mk XII modules I could find either came from lockboxes or were white "Biofilter Sweep Mk XII", which comes from the trade-in version of "Spire Experimental Science Kit XII".
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    Please tell me what they searched for. Were the modules from lockboxes? Were the modules white "Biofilter Sweep Mk XII"? Please note that we have already ruled out these cases. See the following posts for more information.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16834811&postcount=9
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16850911&postcount=19
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16871631&postcount=26

    Based on the about 20 number I doubt it's lockbox modules (there are hundreds of those on the exchange atm) and highly doubt it's only the white Biofilter sweep module (less than 10 when I checked, plus there can't be that many people who owned the old one to trade in, right?). But I've also searched for MK XII versions of the powers in a variety of ways and only the white biofilter sweep shows up so something is going on - I certainly can't find the 20 QA is referring to.
  • Options
    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    no09dysonsphere wrote: »
    Based on the about 20 number I doubt it's lockbox modules (there are hundreds of those on the exchange atm) and highly doubt it's only the white Biofilter sweep module (less than 10 when I checked, plus there can't be that many people who owned the old one to trade in, right?). But I've also searched for MK XII versions of the powers in a variety of ways and only the white biofilter sweep shows up so something is going on - I certainly can't find the 20 QA is referring to.

    It is possible that the Exchange works differently from inside Cryptic's internal network. I suggest that a QA access the Exchange from outside Cryptic's network using a normal user account and search for all the non-lockbox modules on this page. If he can find any Mk XII non-lockbox modules besides white "Biofilter Sweep Mk XII", I would certainly like to know what it is, because I can't find any after two extensive searches.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    Let me note that when I replied above it was after one of the QA team checked on Holodeck and found about 20 Mk XII Kit Modules listed in the Exchange. So they are dropping and are being listed on the Exchange, there's just not a lot of them being listed at this time.

    No offense sir, I know you guys have a lot of things to do, but something still does not feel right. Could you name specific modules from the ~20 or so that you guys are seeing? As the other guys said, the only ones I'm seeing are lockbox modules or the common biofilter that comes from a kit trade in, not a drop.
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • Options
    crypticfrostcrypticfrost Member Posts: 1,479 Cryptic Developer
    edited May 2014
    I took another look and verified that your observations are correct. I then talked to Borticus and he said that Mk XII Kit Modules are indeed not dropping at this time and that it is by design. So this is not a bug but the result of an intentional design decision.
    STO QA Team
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    no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    I took another look and verified that your observations are correct. I then talked to Borticus and he said that Mk XII Kit Modules are indeed not dropping at this time and that it is by design. So this is not a bug but the result of an intentional design decision.

    Thanks for the confirmation. I guess it's a little unfair for those who didn't buy the fleet kits to turn in but seeing the new kit modules bring life back to replaying assimilation the intent makes sense.

    It'd be cool if they were added as rare drops to different ground ESTF bosses though as an incentive to do things like Elite mode Into the Hive.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    I took another look and verified that your observations are correct. I then talked to Borticus and he said that Mk XII Kit Modules are indeed not dropping at this time and that it is by design. So this is not a bug but the result of an intentional design decision.

    I don't understand the purpose of this design. Mk XII versions of other types of equipment do drop. It also contradicts adjudicatorhawk's earlier statement that Mk XII modules drop from critters in elite ground content.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16826491&postcount=7

    My main objection is that characters who did not buy fleet kits before Season 9 cannot get Mk XII modules.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    by design.

    Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. :(

    Well thanks for verifying exactly what is going on.

    I guess it gives a bit of exclusivity to those that supported the fleet system before S9, but it hardly seems fair to the new players that weren't even around then. :confused:

    Having them drop exclusively from ground bosses would be kinda cool.
    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
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