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The next Reboot movies in the 2020s

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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,752 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    starkaos wrote: »
    There are far too many different definitions to reboots which my posts proved which makes the definition for a reboot vague and confusing.

    There is nothing confusing about it. The Kelvin timeline films are not much different than the Mirror Universe - both represent a separate reality with events unfolding in a different way from the Prime continuity. The key difference is that the Prime universe still exists. The dialogue in ST 2009 film clearly spells this out for you.

    Post edited by valoreah on
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    There are far too many different definitions to reboots which my posts proved which makes the definition for a reboot vague and confusing.

    There is nothing confusing about it. The Kelvin timeline films are not much different than the Mirror Universe - both represent a separate reality with events unfolding in a different way from the Prime continuity. The key difference is that the Prime universe still exists. The dialogue in ST 2009 film clearly spells this out for you.

    Except that the Mirror Universe doesn't have its own separate series. It has always been attached to the main Star Trek series. Every reboot could be considered as a separate reality with events unfolding in a different way from the original continuity that uses different writers and actors from the original.

    The dialogue in ST 2009 clearly spells out that it is an alternate reality not that the Prime continuity still exists. When Star Trek 2009 originally came out, the only confirmation that the prime continuity still exists is by an interview from one of the creators of ST 2009 not from ST 2009.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,752 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    The dialogue in ST 2009 clearly spells out that it is an alternate reality not that the Prime continuity still exists.

    What would it be an "alternate" to if the Prime universe wasn't still there? You have DISCO and the upcoming Picard series all taking place in the Prime timeline. The Kelvin films are an alternate reality, not a reboot.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,918 Bug Hunter
    Yeah. DSC is prime ergo the KT didn't wipe out Prime as it still exists. Hell, the Picard Series is in the future meaning it's definitely not wiped out.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    A Reboot movie? that series was kinda popular, but I didn't think Reboot would be popular enough to make a MOVIE off of...
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    The dialogue in ST 2009 clearly spells out that it is an alternate reality not that the Prime continuity still exists.

    What would it be an "alternate" to if the Prime universe wasn't still there? You have DISCO and the upcoming Picard series all taking place in the Prime timeline. The Kelvin films are an alternate reality, not a reboot.

    There are far too many alternate realities in Star Trek that we are led to believe are erased from existence by restoring the timeline. There is the Edith Keeler reality from The City on the Edge of Forever, the assimilated Earth reality from First Contact, and the Children of Time reality where the Defiant Crew goes back in time a few hundred years and have a bunch of descendants before they are erased from existence. Just to name a few instances of alternate realities that no longer exist. It is possible that each of these alternate realities weren't erased, but that removes the drama of restoring the timeline and makes the heroes selfish since there was no need to restore the timeline. Of course, restoring the timeline would not get the heroes back to their original reality, but to an alternate reality extremely similar to their original.

    How is an alternate reality different from a reboot? For Spiderman, it could be easily argued that there is the Tobey Macguire alternate reality (2002), the Andrew Garfield alternate reality (2012), and the Tom Holland alternate reality which is the MCU. The only difference between Star Trek 2009 and other reboots is that it has some connection with the original. Get rid of old Spock in Star Trek 2009 and there is absolutely zero difference between Star Trek 2009 and other reboots.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,752 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    There are far too many alternate realities in Star Trek that we are led to believe are erased from existence by restoring the timeline.

    And the Kelvin timeline is not among them.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,918 Bug Hunter
    starkaos wrote: »
    How is an alternate reality different from a reboot? For Spiderman, it could be easily argued that there is the Tobey Macguire alternate reality (2002), the Andrew Garfield alternate reality (2012), and the Tom Holland alternate reality which is the MCU. The only difference between Star Trek 2009 and other reboots is that it has some connection with the original.

    That is literally the difference (despite you incorrectly suggesting 09 is a reboot in the same sentence that shows you have the slightest glimmer of what a reboot actually is).

    The Amazing Spider-Man duology is a reboot of The Spider-Man Trilogy because they are separate series with no connections.

    An alternate universe is as utterly meaningless as a different time frame in terms of continuity. The KT is no more a reboot of Star Trek than DS9 is. TKT is in the same continuity as the rest of the franchise from an out of universe perspective (i.e. the only perspective that matters when talking about reboots).
    In-universe, it's in an alternate timeline and using your 'logic' Star Trek has been rebooted every time time travel is used which is just an extension of your usual quantum bollocks waffling.
    starkaos wrote: »
    Get rid of old Spock in Star Trek 2009 and there is absolutely zero difference between Star Trek 2009 and other reboots.

    Incorrect. Nero would still alive from the Prime future, wipe out the Kelvin, create a new timeline. Krell would still have crashed on his planet with the Franklin. Pike, Marcus, and any other character born prior to 2233 would still be the same as their Prime counterparts because TKT is not intended to be a new continuity, it's intended to tie into existing Trek using mechanisms created back in TOS.

    The Amazing Spider-Man duology is a reboot of The Spider-Man Trilogy because it was always intended to wipe away every trace of those previous films and recast and reset every single character and event. 09 does that no more than Mirror Mirror did (though you probably do think Mirror Mirror is a reboot if you're even trying to be consistent).​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,325 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    > valoreah wrote: »
    >
    > starkaos wrote: »
    >
    > There are far too many different definitions to reboots which my posts proved which makes the definition for a reboot vague and confusing.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > There is nothing confusing about it. The Kelvin timeline films are not much different than the Mirror Universe - both represent a separate reality with events unfolding in a different way from the Prime continuity. The key difference is that the Prime universe still exists. The dialogue in ST 2009 film clearly spells this out for you.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Except that the Mirror Universe doesn't have its own separate series. It has always been attached to the main Star Trek series. Every reboot could be considered as a separate reality with events unfolding in a different way from the original continuity that uses different writers and actors from the original.
    >
    > The dialogue in ST 2009 clearly spells out that it is an alternate reality not that the Prime continuity still exists. When Star Trek 2009 originally came out, the only confirmation that the prime continuity still exists is by an interview from one of the creators of ST 2009 not from ST 2009.

    I'd love a separate mirror universe series. Stick all the edgy stuff like nudity, swearing, grimdark and so on in the mirror universe series and make the Prime Universe more family friendly and optimistic and everyone wins.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,621 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    I'd love a separate mirror universe series. Stick all the edgy stuff like nudity, swearing, grimdark and so on in the mirror universe series and make the Prime Universe more family friendly and optimistic and everyone wins.

    DS9 is Prime Universe, and it had full on war.

    You can't just segregate things like that. The Federation isn't just some happy go-lucky peace corps. They've fought wars, and not everyone is a saint. Hell... Sisko, who is cited as one of the best Captains in the franchise, has done some questionable stuff himself. Or are we supposed to ignore the fact he used improvised chemical weapons (Trilithium resin containers attached to quantum torpedos) to render a Maquis planet uninhabitable to humans, and was willing to do that to EVERY Maquis would in the DMZ? Or how he was party to the assassination of a Romulan Senator to get the Star Empire involved in the Dominion War?

    These days I hear "family friendly and optimistic" and I start thinking of San Angeles from Demolition Man for some reason.

    Starfleet may focus on science and exploration... but if the call to arms is made... its Starfleet that responds. Besides... season 2 of Discovery looks like it will have more humor to break up the tension, and won't be so locked down on story arcs like season 1. It will have an OVERALL arc, but more story freedom.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,325 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > lordgyor wrote: »
    >
    > I'd love a separate mirror universe series. Stick all the edgy stuff like nudity, swearing, grimdark and so on in the mirror universe series and make the Prime Universe more family friendly and optimistic and everyone wins.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > DS9 is Prime Universe, and it had full on war.
    >
    > You can't just segregate things like that. The Federation isn't just some happy go-lucky peace corps. They've fought wars, and not everyone is a saint. Hell... Sisko, who is cited as one of the best Captains in the franchise, has done some questionable stuff himself. Or are we supposed to ignore the fact he used improvised chemical weapons (Trilithium resin containers attached to quantum torpedos) to render a Maquis planet uninhabitable to humans, and was willing to do that to EVERY Maquis would in the DMZ? Or how he was party to the assassination of a Romulan Senator to get the Star Empire involved in the Dominion War?
    >
    > These days I hear "family friendly and optimistic" and I start thinking of San Angeles from Demolition Man for some reason.
    >
    > Starfleet may focus on science and exploration... but if the call to arms is made... its Starfleet that responds. Besides... season 2 of Discovery looks like it will have more humor to break up the tension, and won't be so locked down on story arcs like season 1. It will have an OVERALL arc, but more story freedom.

    Let's not take my idea to the extreme, you can still have serious stories in the Prime Universe, I'm just suggesting keep it mostly to the level of DS9 and Voyager, which still managed to be family friendly and have a mirror universe and/or section 31 to be more Game of Thrones/Spartus/Black Sails/Altered Carbon kind of content, which a lot darker, riskier, nakeder, more adult then DS9 or Voyager was allowed to get too.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    Get rid of old Spock in Star Trek 2009 and there is absolutely zero difference between Star Trek 2009 and other reboots.

    Incorrect. Nero would still alive from the Prime future, wipe out the Kelvin, create a new timeline. Krell would still have crashed on his planet with the Franklin. Pike, Marcus, and any other character born prior to 2233 would still be the same as their Prime counterparts because TKT is not intended to be a new continuity, it's intended to tie into existing Trek using mechanisms created back in TOS.

    Was Nero in any Star Trek TV series or movie before Star Trek 2009? In order for Star Trek 2009 to connect with the previous TV series, it needs old Spock or another character that was in the previous Star Trek series. Just having Nero would not create that connection. It would just be a reboot and not a continuation of Spock's life. Star Trek 2009 was intended to be a new continuity with a slight connection to the previous continuity.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    but...aw geez, I was hoping this was a thread about a movie-version release of the old series "Reboot"...lol.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    but...aw geez, I was hoping this was a thread about a movie-version release of the old series "Reboot"...lol.

    Since the OP isn't clear what they meant by reboot movie, it is what we define it as. It could be about the next Star Trek movie, a Reboot movie based on the 90s CG cartoon, or whatever reboot movie that we are hoping for.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    but...aw geez, I was hoping this was a thread about a movie-version release of the old series "Reboot"...lol.

    Since the OP isn't clear what they meant by reboot movie, it is what we define it as. It could be about the next Star Trek movie, a Reboot movie based on the 90s CG cartoon, or whatever reboot movie that we are hoping for.

    chuckle...."Reboot Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!!"
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    but...aw geez, I was hoping this was a thread about a movie-version release of the old series "Reboot"...lol.

    Since the OP isn't clear what they meant by reboot movie, it is what we define it as. It could be about the next Star Trek movie, a Reboot movie based on the 90s CG cartoon, or whatever reboot movie that we are hoping for.

    chuckle...."Reboot Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!!"

    Personally, I think that a Back to the Future Reboot or a Reboot movie would be better than another Star Trek Reboot movie. We used to be starving for Star Trek when Star Trek 2009 came out, but it looks like we might be completely full of Star Trek in a few years.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,621 Arc User
    Can we reboot the Army Men games? I miss those...

    The color of war is Green and Tan...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,918 Bug Hunter
    Can we reboot starkaos? Or at the least run a defrag. Some run files have obviously become corrupted.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,180 Arc User
    Reboot Little Shop Of Horrors. Get Halston Sage to play Seymour. And let Rick Moranis do a cameo as a customer.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    Can we reboot starkaos? Or at the least run a defrag. Some run files have obviously become corrupted.​​

    Sorry, but starkaos is at 98.4% efficiency. At least, the starkaos program doesn't use ad hominem attacks.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,320 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    but...aw geez, I was hoping this was a thread about a movie-version release of the old series "Reboot"...lol.
    Since the OP isn't clear what they meant by reboot movie, it is what we define it as. It could be about the next Star Trek movie, a Reboot movie based on the 90s CG cartoon, or whatever reboot movie that we are hoping for.
    chuckle...."Reboot Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!!"

    I loved those. :D
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    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,918 Bug Hunter
    starkaos wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Can we reboot starkaos? Or at the least run a defrag. Some run files have obviously become corrupted.​​

    Sorry, but starkaos is at 98.4% efficiency. At least, the starkaos program doesn't use ad hominem attacks.

    An ad hominem is an attempt to invalidate an argument by attacking the character of the person making the argument. I never called your character into question only your methodology (I.e. making stuff up and being unable to distinguish between in and out of universe terms) making your post a strawman.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Can we reboot starkaos? Or at the least run a defrag. Some run files have obviously become corrupted.​​

    Sorry, but starkaos is at 98.4% efficiency. At least, the starkaos program doesn't use ad hominem attacks.

    An ad hominem is an attempt to invalidate an argument by attacking the character of the person making the argument. I never called your character into question only your methodology (I.e. making stuff up and being unable to distinguish between in and out of universe terms) making your post a strawman.

    Asking to reboot or defrag someone means that you think there is something wrong with a person's mental faculties. Attacking a person's mental faculties is attacking the person. It is the only ad hominem attack that can be done on forums since there is no way to know a person's physical characteristics.

    And where did I "make stuff up"? I referenced other people's work to show that Star Trek 2009 is a weird type of reboot. Reality is too complex for simple labels. So if Star Trek 2009 is not a reboot, then what is it?
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,180 Arc User
    Why don't you two go in the corner and make up/out already? We're here to discuss remaking movies, not your relative mental equilibrium.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Why don't you two go in the corner and make up/out already? We're here to discuss remaking movies, not your relative mental equilibrium.

    I thought we were here to talk about Reboot or reboots not remakes. Remakes stay as close to the original as possible while reboots tell a completely new story while only keeping the core elements of the original. So a Spiderman reboot has to have Peter Parker, Spiderman, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Mary Jane Watson, and New York City to make it recognizable to Spiderman fans, but it doesn't need to have anything else from the previous movies.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,621 Arc User
    Except there is a version of Spiderman that doesn't have Mary Jane. Honestly I felt Gwen Stacy was a bit more developed in the Amazing Spiderman movies than Mary Jane Watson was in the original trilogy.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,180 Arc User
    I prefer the comic book MJ. "Go get 'em, Tiger."
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,617 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Except there is a version of Spiderman that doesn't have Mary Jane. Honestly I felt Gwen Stacy was a bit more developed in the Amazing Spiderman movies than Mary Jane Watson was in the original trilogy.

    And there is the African American MJ from the Homecoming movie. However, Gwen Stacy was part of the Spiderman comics and it is possible that there might have been a Mary Jane if the Amazing Spiderman wasn't cancelled. Forgot who the love interest in the Amazing Spiderman was. Not sure why they couldn't integrate the Amazing Spiderman into the MCU since it didn't have the problems of Spiderman 3.

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,215 Arc User
    The Amazing Spider-Man movies had one problem that would keep them out of the MCU - all their flashy villains never attracted the attention of the Avengers, or even the more street-level heroes of the Netflix series, and Spider-Man was untouched by the Battle of New York.

    Besides, I like Spidey better when the beginning of his career is in high school, and Tom Holland was about the right age when he got the role (in addition to being so baby-faced that when he went out with the rest of the Infinity War cast for drinks, he got carded every time he ordered). I was also pleased to see they remembered one crucial aspect of the character that the original Raimi trilogy forgot - Spider-Man is a motormouth, constantly spewing one-liners as he fights. (The second series of movies, with Andrew Garfield, got that right too.) It's one of the things he's best known for, to the point that when he started hunting the person who shot May in the "One More Day" storyline, the villains knew they were in real trouble because he wasn't joking around.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    Star Trek 2009 is NOT a reboot:
    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/orci_kurtzman_why_they_do

    "We couldn't imagine not having this movie somehow fall within some degree of continuity. We don't accept the word reboot. Reboot does not actually describe the fact that this movie would not be possible without the 10 movies that came prior to it. The very events of the movie themselves are caused by Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock and his story, which picks up essentially after the last movie, Star Trek 10 [Nemesis]. ... So our movie is both a prequel and a sequel. It's a sequel if you're a fan, and a prequel if you're not."
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