All I know is they will take my CC but not my Zen I have already bought. Guess it gets a I'll pass. I do have to add, I thought they would ask for more than $19.99 for the uniform and ship. The price isn't all that bad.
The best thing to do here, is to forget the packs even exist and play the game. You can create reasonably well made Jem'Hadar and Cardassians for free with the Alien Generator. So adding these two races behind a paywall, meh, fail.
I just hope we get more than two varieties of JH to choose from. A special unlock for LTS, at least?
They haven't given anything new to LTS for a really long time. I wish they added Liberated Borg Alien to the options for the 2 1/2 factions. Or give LTS a fully unlocked tailor.
LTS, gets plenty of perks already. Anything they add to it, is retroactively activated, meaning they don't make any profit off it. LTS can have some more outfits, maybe some bank slots. As far as races and ships. The bigger money is in selling it to everyone.
@duncanidaho11 You're criticizing a first teaser, where we're given limited information BY THEIR OWN CHOICE to create hype. I'm not sure what "ISSUE" you're referring to exactly. We're not supposed to know everything yet. And if you're THAT concerned that a paid version of the Jem'Hadar will be gamebreaking... well as it was already done, I'm going to point to Trill and Joined Trill... Yes... Joined Trill are better, but they're not gamebreakingly better. What they DO add is a difference in Roleplay and Immersion factors.
To put it bluntly you're trying to create needless drama where there is no basis for said drama to exist. You're taking something that affects you in no way at all and blowing it out of proportion. If you don't want to pay for them don't. It's not going to be so big a difference that you HAVE to have it to play the game. Criticize Cryptic if you will, but their free races are still fairly balanced against the paid for races. But because they're not doing EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT, you're basically throwing a tantrum about nothing. Stop acting like a spoiled child and telling others they're wrong just for disagreeing with you. Your interpretation is not the only valid one.
P.S. The Elder idea would make sense; your base dismissal of it, which is based on limited and not complete information, is wrong. Older, more experienced Jem'Hadar having advanced training compared to the general ranks makes PERFECT sense.
Now this is simply unproductive. What I'm saying is that the Vanguard Jem'Hadar are lacking key features of other playable races and that Trill are not a complete analog. More could be done. That's a simple point of feedback. It's not a demand fixed to an ultimatum, it's an opinion justified through logic and direct reasoning. I don't accept the counter arguments put forth, which (by your post) consist of "partial information precludes discussion." That's not a standpoint, that's a cop-out that simply states that this thread isn't a discussion you'd like to be having. So, why are you trying to have it? Comparing the information we have about Jem'Hadar types in a feedback thread specifically titled on those terms is by no means alien to a feedback forum. The key to having it isn't to provide an ultimate statement about what will happen but to work through avaiable information and make what we can of it. People here can talk about that all day without detracting for any other thread on this forum (so long a relevant discussion is happening. Making this about personalities in preference of the topic isn't a step in that direction, mind you.)
People are free to disagree, I said that explicitly. However, I will maintain my point that Vanguard Jem'Hadar could be implemented better if I find that rational behind that disagreement wanting. That's rather basic to a discussion. My opinion doesn't change simply because you want it to, and I try to apply that same courtesy. I'll argue, but at the end of the day you're free to believe what you want.
PS. I said the Honored Elder idea would make sense. It would be comparable to joined v. unjoined Trill, in terms of Jem'Hadar society. How do you read that as a dismissal? If you want to throw around the term wrong, that read of yours was wrong. So take that in the context of this thread. Are you sure you're reading it for content or just to establish a social point of view?
Anyway, unless you have something new to add to the topic under discussion (though it seems the basics of the species options has been well litigated) we can probably move on.
All I know is they will take my CC but not my Zen I have already bought. Guess it gets a I'll pass. I do have to add, I thought they would ask for more than $19.99 for the uniform and ship. The price isn't all that bad.
It is a steal compared to the 3k zen ship alone. They offered a very similar bundle with AOY and I opted for that out of sheer cheap-ness. Keep in mind with that precedent, that we should be able to pick this up from the c-store on release.
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while I thought STO wasnt so much pay2win i still want to take a look at the numbers how much "better" the pay'hadar rly is
but yeah its enoughf to give a bad review already
huge dislike on this
The unique joined Trill trait offers gives between +3 to +9 to a variety of stats. So if they are using that as precedent (in spite of [see. thread]) I'd expect a similar approach and comparable numbers (applying to both space and ground, or two traits separately buffing space or ground). Ultimately then you'll be better of with a Vanguard Jem'Hadar with basic traits but it may not matter at all once you move onto potentially more potent lock box traits. So, with nothing else it could just be a wash, hence why customization options and lore matters. They justify the premium option regardless of build choices and the long-term utility of one or two traits.
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The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
> @rattler2 said: > ..... if the C-Store Cardi ships will unlock Spiral Wave Disruptors like the lockbox ship does. Arguing over what amounts to a teaser of a new species unlock gets us nowhere.
That is my biggest question, as I've wanted to get Spiral Waves for years, I'm specifically liking the look of that Damar Science Dreadnaught, aesthetically.
As for the Starter Pack, I haven't played regularly in a good while, but an expansion is a great excuse to get back in. I certainly do not regret buying the Romulan Starter Pack one bit.
On a completely unrelated note, purchased Joined Trill years back,but never actually used one, just as I have Catian just to unlock more Tailer choices for Ferasan. Seems like a Good time to put a Joined Trill or Catian in a Cardasian ship to me.
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> @evilmark444 said: > The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc.
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The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
The surprising part for simply is that the C-store option was introduced as, first and foremost (and perhaps only) having unique traits. Think of it like adding a MACO-trained human as a full species option, with a superior leadership trait versus normal being the only distinguishing feature. Is it really making the best use of the opportunity? Does it even qualify as a species? Why not opt for something else that carries with it greater biological or narrative significance? Ex. "Vanguard Jem'Hadar" but with a greater maximum height and more skin tone options (to reflect differences in engineering.)
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> @evilmark444 said:
> The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc.
AoY was using the four original members of the Federation. Unfortunately, Cat was not one of them.
> @trennan said: > potasssium wrote: » > > > @evilmark444 said: > > The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ... > > I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc. > > > > > AoY was using the four original members of the Federation. Unfortunately, Cat was not one of them.
Those were the four Founding Species, I am aware. Move of a ToS movie Era guy. Have my AoY in a Miranda.
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This is no different then C-Store or Lockbox ships with desirable traits, lock box traits, lobi items, etc. There have always been perks for spending money.
This falls in line with the established pattern of STO, you can always get good stuff for free, but you can get better with money. That's not Pay 2 Win, Pay to Win is where you can't get anywhere or do anything without spending money.. P2W games have a massive difference in paid and free items.. STO does not suffer from that problem.
There won't be anything in any of these 'premium' races that are so must have that the free one will be worthless. If you just want to play that race, you can do so for free.. but the paid one will have a few extra small perks.
> @evilmark444 said:
> The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc.
The best thing to do here, is to forget the packs even exist and play the game. You can create reasonably well made Jem'Hadar and Cardassians for free with the Alien Generator. So adding these two races behind a paywall, meh, fail.
I just hope we get more than two varieties of JH to choose from. A special unlock for LTS, at least?
They haven't given anything new to LTS for a really long time. I wish they added Liberated Borg Alien to the options for the 2 1/2 factions. Or give LTS a fully unlocked tailor.
LTS, gets plenty of perks already. Anything they add to it, is retroactively activated, meaning they don't make any profit off it. LTS can have some more outfits, maybe some bank slots. As far as races and ships. The bigger money is in selling it to everyone.
Including the 900 day/1k day or so Veteran ships for T5-U/T6, for the 2 1/2 factions?
...I would be really disappointed if this became a future trend in this game, of asking money for better versions of free things....
You're right. Why would any business want to try and make money selling something? It's totally inconceivable!
Generally though Cryptic's done more to incentivize their paid c-store species unlocks. Look at: all other C-store options but one from a single faction's point of view, and even then there's some darn good in-universe reasons why they're separate options with no visible distinguishing features.
And there's some simple ways of differentiating Vanguard Jem'Hadar from normal Jem'Hadar (ex. slightly tweaking a few color options and slider settings) that could add to their characters, build setting, and...you know...develop the narrative aspects to this story driven game which in large part justifies why we're here and not, say, reading up on international finance. After all, if it really does come down to just business then all this pesky "game" stuff is getting in the way from the pure expression of profit motive.
(Which is just to say that looking at this topic from the largest possible scale [ie. does this violate economic principles?] does removes one's ability to distinguish fine detail [ie. incidental features of one of two premium species] and how those can be improved. Is it good to have context? Yeah, but you don't want to lose sight of discussion in pulling yourself too far back. After all, the Sun will eventually go read giant, so why worry about content monetization anyway? )
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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...I would be really disappointed if this became a future trend in this game, of asking money for better versions of free things....
You're right. Why would any business want to try and make money selling something? It's totally inconceivable!
There was a time when people made enjoyable games and players paid money for said games as well as time online for said games. Now it's devolved in to what we have today in STO. A game loaded with pay for Barbie and pay for win options but content that's on shaky ground where leveling missions and battle zones are like run down buildings in need of repair even as a shiny new ship/race comes out the door while the resources are apparently running on fumes for upkeep.
So what? There was a time when gasoline was only 10 cents a gallon too. Times change. If the game is no longer to your liking, then move on to something else you enjoy.
"Times Change" also can justify Delta Rising's excessive XP scaling, fail states in advanced queues, and changing subnucleonic beam to a boff power. You know why those things changed back? Feedback. That's rather the point of having a forum, providing specific opinions to specific topics with as much relevant detail as possible so we can come to some sort of point about what's going on, why, and how it might be otherwise (for the devs to take as they will.) Times change but that's just the start of discussion.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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Comments
but yeah its enoughf to give a bad review already
huge dislike on this
LTS, gets plenty of perks already. Anything they add to it, is retroactively activated, meaning they don't make any profit off it. LTS can have some more outfits, maybe some bank slots. As far as races and ships. The bigger money is in selling it to everyone.
Now this is simply unproductive. What I'm saying is that the Vanguard Jem'Hadar are lacking key features of other playable races and that Trill are not a complete analog. More could be done. That's a simple point of feedback. It's not a demand fixed to an ultimatum, it's an opinion justified through logic and direct reasoning. I don't accept the counter arguments put forth, which (by your post) consist of "partial information precludes discussion." That's not a standpoint, that's a cop-out that simply states that this thread isn't a discussion you'd like to be having. So, why are you trying to have it? Comparing the information we have about Jem'Hadar types in a feedback thread specifically titled on those terms is by no means alien to a feedback forum. The key to having it isn't to provide an ultimate statement about what will happen but to work through avaiable information and make what we can of it. People here can talk about that all day without detracting for any other thread on this forum (so long a relevant discussion is happening. Making this about personalities in preference of the topic isn't a step in that direction, mind you.)
People are free to disagree, I said that explicitly. However, I will maintain my point that Vanguard Jem'Hadar could be implemented better if I find that rational behind that disagreement wanting. That's rather basic to a discussion. My opinion doesn't change simply because you want it to, and I try to apply that same courtesy. I'll argue, but at the end of the day you're free to believe what you want.
PS. I said the Honored Elder idea would make sense. It would be comparable to joined v. unjoined Trill, in terms of Jem'Hadar society. How do you read that as a dismissal? If you want to throw around the term wrong, that read of yours was wrong. So take that in the context of this thread. Are you sure you're reading it for content or just to establish a social point of view?
Anyway, unless you have something new to add to the topic under discussion (though it seems the basics of the species options has been well litigated) we can probably move on.
It is a steal compared to the 3k zen ship alone. They offered a very similar bundle with AOY and I opted for that out of sheer cheap-ness. Keep in mind with that precedent, that we should be able to pick this up from the c-store on release.
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The unique joined Trill trait offers gives between +3 to +9 to a variety of stats. So if they are using that as precedent (in spite of [see. thread]) I'd expect a similar approach and comparable numbers (applying to both space and ground, or two traits separately buffing space or ground). Ultimately then you'll be better of with a Vanguard Jem'Hadar with basic traits but it may not matter at all once you move onto potentially more potent lock box traits. So, with nothing else it could just be a wash, hence why customization options and lore matters. They justify the premium option regardless of build choices and the long-term utility of one or two traits.
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> ..... if the C-Store Cardi ships will unlock Spiral Wave Disruptors like the lockbox ship does. Arguing over what amounts to a teaser of a new species unlock gets us nowhere.
That is my biggest question, as I've wanted to get Spiral Waves for years, I'm specifically liking the look of that Damar Science Dreadnaught, aesthetically.
As for the Starter Pack, I haven't played regularly in a good while, but an expansion is a great excuse to get back in. I certainly do not regret buying the Romulan Starter Pack one bit.
On a completely unrelated note, purchased Joined Trill years back,but never actually used one, just as I have Catian just to unlock more Tailer choices for Ferasan. Seems like a Good time to put a Joined Trill or Catian in a Cardasian ship to me.
> The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc.
The surprising part for simply is that the C-store option was introduced as, first and foremost (and perhaps only) having unique traits. Think of it like adding a MACO-trained human as a full species option, with a superior leadership trait versus normal being the only distinguishing feature. Is it really making the best use of the opportunity? Does it even qualify as a species? Why not opt for something else that carries with it greater biological or narrative significance? Ex. "Vanguard Jem'Hadar" but with a greater maximum height and more skin tone options (to reflect differences in engineering.)
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AoY was using the four original members of the Federation. Unfortunately, Cat was not one of them.
> potasssium wrote: »
>
> > @evilmark444 said:
> > The only faction that doesn't have a C-Store race is TOS, and that's only because they were sticking with only races that appeared in TOS. I really don't understand why anyone is surprised by this ...
>
> I would have loved if Catian was available in AoY, but ended up making my only Vulcan. Almost went Tellerite actually. Catians were Fed members fairly early on, by movie era, and Animated ToS iirc.
>
>
>
>
> AoY was using the four original members of the Federation. Unfortunately, Cat was not one of them.
Those were the four Founding Species, I am aware. Move of a ToS movie Era guy. Have my AoY in a Miranda.
Without full stats to compare, any tantrums thrown due exclusively to marketing are half-baked at best.
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This is no different then C-Store or Lockbox ships with desirable traits, lock box traits, lobi items, etc. There have always been perks for spending money.
This falls in line with the established pattern of STO, you can always get good stuff for free, but you can get better with money. That's not Pay 2 Win, Pay to Win is where you can't get anywhere or do anything without spending money.. P2W games have a massive difference in paid and free items.. STO does not suffer from that problem.
There won't be anything in any of these 'premium' races that are so must have that the free one will be worthless. If you just want to play that race, you can do so for free.. but the paid one will have a few extra small perks.
I honestly see no problem here.
Yep.
Including the 900 day/1k day or so Veteran ships for T5-U/T6, for the 2 1/2 factions?
Generally though Cryptic's done more to incentivize their paid c-store species unlocks. Look at: all other C-store options but one from a single faction's point of view, and even then there's some darn good in-universe reasons why they're separate options with no visible distinguishing features.
And there's some simple ways of differentiating Vanguard Jem'Hadar from normal Jem'Hadar (ex. slightly tweaking a few color options and slider settings) that could add to their characters, build setting, and...you know...develop the narrative aspects to this story driven game which in large part justifies why we're here and not, say, reading up on international finance. After all, if it really does come down to just business then all this pesky "game" stuff is getting in the way from the pure expression of profit motive.
(Which is just to say that looking at this topic from the largest possible scale [ie. does this violate economic principles?] does removes one's ability to distinguish fine detail [ie. incidental features of one of two premium species] and how those can be improved. Is it good to have context? Yeah, but you don't want to lose sight of discussion in pulling yourself too far back. After all, the Sun will eventually go read giant, so why worry about content monetization anyway?
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I concur. I have a Fed JT. So it isn't KDF-exclusive.
True! I'd pay for a Human Terran Empire (like Empress Georgiou *.*)
There was a time when people made enjoyable games and players paid money for said games as well as time online for said games. Now it's devolved in to what we have today in STO. A game loaded with pay for Barbie and pay for win options but content that's on shaky ground where leveling missions and battle zones are like run down buildings in need of repair even as a shiny new ship/race comes out the door while the resources are apparently running on fumes for upkeep.
"Times Change" also can justify Delta Rising's excessive XP scaling, fail states in advanced queues, and changing subnucleonic beam to a boff power. You know why those things changed back? Feedback. That's rather the point of having a forum, providing specific opinions to specific topics with as much relevant detail as possible so we can come to some sort of point about what's going on, why, and how it might be otherwise (for the devs to take as they will.) Times change but that's just the start of discussion.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!