Shouldn't AoY be in 2269?

trinitycompleted

Cannon sources put the Five-Year Mission as starting in 2265 and ending in 2070.

The presser referred to 2070 as the year after the third season of TOS, which started in 2267 and ended in 2268.

So did they get the year wrong, or did Cryptic decide that all of TOS was all five years for their purposes?

artan42

More importantly, TAS makes up at least year four, if not four and five of the five year mission. It would be nice if Cryptic didn't think they could get away with overwriting actual canon.

I can only assume some Dev somewhere has a personal dislike of that show as that's the only logical reason as to why it's not included with AoY, despite TAS essentially being TOS.
I can understand why TMP is not included, it's aesthetics do not match either the TOS era or the TWoK era, but TAS is an animated version of TOS, it's aesthetics are as near as is possible limited to only the medium.

Besides, I want my T6 Bonaventure Class...



​​

nikeix

Wow. That's a giant ball of canonical timey-whimey contradictions...

thay8472

So the AoY is set in 2272? Maybe it starts during the Enterprise's final year?


@artan42 I don't know what this is but I want it.



in addition @artan42 I say my good sir, do you think we should ask very politely or britishly for a Tos Typhoon Class?

P.S. If your response to this displeases me you'll be flying whatever cryptic puts into the game that looks like this!

artan42

@thay8472 The first pic looks like a four nacelle version of the Federation Class Dreadnought...


A TOS era Typhoon? I think that would be amusingly awesome. Fancy tagging a Dev we can politely beg to include one?

I don't know what your second image is, but it resembles the TOS version of the Bradford Type...



I really have no problem flying that for obvious reasons .​​

daveyny

Gecko said that They DO consider TAS to be part of the Original Series, but They picked 2270 as their starting point any way.

But he also said this Expansion is SOLELY BASED on The Original Live-action Series.

There's no reason They can't add something from TAS later on down the road.

angrytarg

AoY roughly falls into the transition from TOS to TMP, it'd be exciting to explora that setting. But I doubt we'll get that as STO at this point isn't about exploring (neither space nor concepts) but only rehashes things we know from the shows. According to mission description on Tribble

All we do is to revisit TOS episodes as time agents and correct incursions - so once again only rehashing known things

Seriously, when do we get to start our own adventures instead of going where the Enterprise has been x years ago (evenb etter if we're only send there by superior future guys instead of having a reason to go there ourselves).​​

[Deleted User]

Topics like this is why everyone hates star trek fans

daveyny

theunknown0#4185 wrote: »

Topics like this is why everyone hates star trek fans

That's simply not true, my Mommy Loves Me!

talonxv

I do have to wonder, are they going to have the refit options for ships like in TMP refit of enterprise? Would love to see a few of these TOS ships have refit versions like the Constitution(this is not a "I want a connie" post).

antonine3258

@thay8472 - first picture would be a Mars-class battleship in Starfleet Battles terms, an even bigger, conjectural, version of the Federation-dreadnought.

Second looks like the good old tug version of the Destroyer from the Franz Joseph technical manual. It is often called the Ptolemy-class.

daveyny

antonine3258 wrote: »

@thay8472 - first picture would be a Mars-class battleship in Starfleet Battles terms, an even bigger, conjectural, version of the Federation-dreadnought.

Second looks like the good old tug version of the Destroyer from the Franz Joseph technical manual. It is often called the Ptolemy-class.

That second one is not the Ptolemy Class.
It's similar but it doesn't have the magnetic/hard-lock pad that the Ptolemy has and that design appears to be permanently attached to that pod and it doesn't have two warp nacelles..

bejaymac

Kirk's first five year mission was 2264 to 2269, then he got promoted and Decker took over as captain during her 18 month refit, so if Cryptic are using 2270 then don't expect to see the Enterprise as she will be in pieces in space dock.​​

zarato4218

bejaymac wrote: »

Kirk's first five year mission was 2264 to 2269, then he got promoted and Decker took over as captain during her 18 month refit, so if Cryptic are using 2270 then don't expect to see the Enterprise as she will be in pieces in space dock.​​

*Tribble Spoiler*

Nope, the Enterprise makes an appearance in the TOS faction tutorial. (If you are lucky enough to get that far into the mission after avoiding its current bugs that is. ) Whether or not it will appear in more though is anyone's guess.

antonine3258

Ah - good point, the Ptolemy is more a cruiser mod than a Saladin variant. @daveyny - but seems to be sort of a light tug design of some kind.

daveyny

antonine3258 wrote: »

Ah - good point, the Ptolemy is more a cruiser mod than a Saladin variant. @daveyny - but seems to be sort of a light tug design of some kind.

That's exactly what it was meant to be...
Below is a copy of what it looked like in the original Franz Joseph Trek Tech Manual.
(he created it)

artan42

Sigh. CBS sets canon not Gene. ALL TV shows and films are canon that includes TAS.

artan42

Ha. Wrong. ALL TV shows. Can you read any ambiguity there? It's canon now move along.

artan42

Sigh. Try a more modern source and come back.

phenomenaut01

Geko said that they're using "SOME" of the TAS elements, as they had to debate what was canon - since CBS used to consider the animated show canon, but doesn't really anymore...mostly.

Though I'm convinced that if they spent some money to correct the horrible mistakes in coloring the cartoon (because the guy who picked the colors was colorblind and saw pink as gray, so anything that's pink in TOS, it's supposed to be gray..how does that happen?!) and rereleased it they'd make some good money off of it and it'd be canon again.

As for the dating...it's a big hot mess that's for sure.

And if you hate Star Trek fan now, the rest of this post isn't for you.

2265 (Year One Begins - "early" in 2265) - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2265
- Kirk assumes command of the Enterprise (according to the episodes "What Are Little Girls Made Of?". "The Managerie, Part 1", and "Voyager, Q2") (note: Kirk took command "early" in the year. See below under 2270)
- At some point in this year the 2nd pilot episode "Where No Man has Gone Before" takes place. (this is the only episode to take place during this year, though it is not the only mission the Enterprise undertook, since the crew is already familiar with each other in this episode)
- At some point after the events of "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Starfleet introduces a new standard uniform (this is the one used throughout TOS and TAS). The uniform

2266 (Year One Ends - Year Two Begins) - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2266
- Enterprise undergoes a refit (this is to reconcile the differences between the look of the ship in the 1st and 2nd pilot episodes ("The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before") and the look of the ship in the remaining episodes (though "The Man Trap" aired first, it was actually the 5th episode...see, hot mess)

- The refit is rather extensive and had to have taken several months, but details are rather sketchy since it's basically an in universe explanation for aesthetic changes made behind the scenes. (another refit takes place later in the 5 year mission, but it basically replaces switches with the "candy" buttons we see on consoles in the Constitiution bridge now).

2267 (Year Two Ends - Year Three Begins) - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2267

2268 (Year Three Ends - Year Four Begins) - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2268

2269 (Year Four End-Year Five Begins) - http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2269
- The last episode of TOS "Turnabout Intruder" takes place.

- The Animated Series Begins.

- M'Ress is assigned to relief communications officer for Lt. Uhura. Lieutenant Arex replaced Ensign Pavel Chekov as the USS Enterprise's Chief Navigator as Chekov was assigned further officer training. Ensign Dawson Walking Bear, a Comanche Native American, is promoted as chief relief helmsman, for Lieutenant Sulu aboard the USS Enterprise. (NOTE: All of these will most likely be ignored in STO, since it seems that the original Enterprise crew appears in AoY)

2270: (Year Five Ends) http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/2270
- The Animated Series Ends.

- The five year mission ends in the early part of the year, according to the Voyager episode Q2. That's screen canon. That means that TAS ends in 2270, so depending on what "early" part of 2270 is supposed to mean, then it could technically be on the tail end of the mission (or there's a calendar shift back a few months - temporal mechanics gives me a headache).

- Kirk is promoted to Admiral, Spock retires to Vulcan, McCoy to Earth, and Decker is promoted to Captain overseeing the refit of the Enterprise (though I doubt we'll be seeing Stephen Collins reprising his role due to his recent history).

...I could go on and on with this stuff...but I'll stop there.

daveyny

The Animated Series is going to be released to HD Blu-ray this year around Xmas.
So I guess They consider it canon again.

markhawkman

somtaawkhar wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

Sigh. CBS sets canon not Gene. ALL TV shows and films are canon that includes TAS.

Nope, even CBS doesn't consider TAS canon.

Got that in writing?

No, of course not. There is no officially published definition.

darakoss

[quote="somtaawkhar;12934899"][quote="artan42;12934361"]More importantly, TAS makes up at least year four, if not four and five of the five year mission. It would be nice if Cryptic didn't think they could get away with overwriting actual canon.[/quote]
TAS was removed from the canon by Gene himself.

TAS hasn't been canon for ages, only part of it referenced in future live action episodes, and then, only those parts of TAS.
[/quote]

You should have scrolled down farther....
On June 27, 2007, Star Trek's official site incorporated information from The Animated Series into its library section,[15] clarifying, finally, that the animated series is part of theStar Trek canon. Both David Gerrold and D.C. Fontana have stated that the animated series is essentially the fourth season that fans wanted originally

darakoss

Besides ..didn't we just do this in another thread already.....

markhawkman

darakoss wrote: »

Besides ..didn't we just do this in another thread already.....

I think on average once a week.

Also: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/tas_continuity.htm

Here's a fun article: http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/22/dc-fontana-on-tas-canon-and-sybok/

If you want to read the current "word of god": http://www.startrek.com/database

farmallm

talonxv wrote: »

I do have to wonder, are they going to have the refit options for ships like in TMP refit of enterprise? Would love to see a few of these TOS ships have refit versions like the Constitution(this is not a "I want a connie" post).

Time will tell, however I do see it possible to see one in use. As I'm sure the Enterprise wasn't the first one to be refited, if it goes that way. Or it could have been the 1st to go through the major refit.

angrytarg

somtaawkhar wrote: »

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Animated_Series
According to Voyages of Imagination, the Animated Series was officially removed from canon at Gene Roddenberry's request in 1988, with the exception of some parts involving Spock's youth, from Fontana's episode "Yesteryear". This had already been confirmed previously by reference book author Mike Okuda in the introductions of his works. (Star Trek Chronology, 1996, p. vii; [X]wbm) Paramount Pictures has followed suit by elevating the request to policy, having officially declared the series non-canon. (Star Trek Encyclopedia, 1994, p. iii)

The very same source you quotet also states that in 2006 with the DVD release TAS was reintegrated into canon. Seriously, it's just a few lines below the part you copypasta'd. You can even follow the citations to the archived Startrek.com articles.​​

mirrorchaos

somtaawkhar wrote: »

angrytarg wrote: »

The very same source you quotet also states that in 2006 with the DVD release TAS was reintegrated into canon. Seriously, it's just a few lines below the part you copypasta'd. You can even follow the citations to the archived Startrek.com articles.​​

Uhh no, it says theres some basis for arguing that it might be considered canon because they re-relased the DVDs, but selling merch =/= a statement of canon

Jesus Christ you people are psychotic when it comes to this aren't you?

i prefer to be as upto date on these things, what happens in 2006 is what happened back then, but 10 years has passed since and we have no idea if CBS still does consider TAS canon, they could of very well buried it again.

angrytarg

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Uhh no, it says theres some basis for arguing that it might be considered canon because they re-relased the DVDs, but selling merch =/= a statement of canon

Jesus Christ you people are psychotic when it comes to this aren't you?

It takes a special kind of stubborn to still argue wether or not TAS is canon.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061206000340/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/store/news/article/35135.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20060612052542/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/editorials/article/17178.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20070630155031/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/specials/article/66895.html

These and other articles put it as having "equal weight" - granted, one is a editorial but the other two are official articles on Startrek.com. And aside from that, the official definition of canon we still have is "Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and screens" - no exclusion of TAS.

Paula Block wrote:

“Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens. Licensed products like books and comics aren’t part of that continuity, so they aren’t canon. And that’s that. Part of my job in licensing is to keep track of TV and Movie continuity, so I can help direct licensees in their creation of licensed products. It gets a little tricky because it’s constantly evolving, and over the years, Star Trek’s various producers and scriptwriters haven’t always kept track of/remembered/cared about what’s come before. Source: http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/22/dc-fontana-on-tas-canon-and-sybok/

So, the above quote is the recent official definition of canon, which includes TAS. Startrek.com supports it, MA supports it. The only thing that speaks against TAS canon is that Gene Rodenberry didn't like it, yet he himself pulled elements from it and made those canon. But Rodenberrys do not control the IP any more - in 2007, Mrs. Block did and she included it by definition. And cherry picking things to put into canon doesn't really work anyways.

So, in conclusions, one can like or dislike TAS just like any other movie or show. But debating wether or not it's canon has no basis. It is. Even Spock's Brain is.

EDIT:

mirrorchaos wrote: »

i prefer to be as upto date on these things, what happens in 2006 is what happened back then, but 10 years has passed since and we have no idea if CBS still does consider TAS canon, they could of very well buried it again.

2007 it was, as I pointed at above. Since then there was no official word on it, true, but why should there be another word on it? For all we know 2007's statement is still current - why would we assume TAS gets dropped for some weird reason? If there's no update to a statement you don't have to release new statements reinforcing them. There's no limitation period on these things.​​

mirrorchaos

angrytarg wrote: »

mirrorchaos wrote: »

i prefer to be as upto date on these things, what happens in 2006 is what happened back then, but 10 years has passed since and we have no idea if CBS still does consider TAS canon, they could of very well buried it again.

2007 it was, as I pointed at above. Since then there was no official word on it, true, but why should there be another word on it? For all we know 2007's statement is still current - why would we assume TAS gets dropped for some weird reason? If there's no update to a statement you don't have to release new statements reinforcing them. There's no limitation period on these things.​​

i think we have both been breathing long enough to know that things change from 1 hour to the next. but quite why you need to defend it is not a concern because TAS is coming to discs later on and they could reinforce it further or reestablish it as canon again, regardless, it is looking towards canon, but who knows if it remained as such between.

daveyny

The Animated Series is already on DVD (since 2006), it's finally coming to HD Blu-ray this Xmas 2016.