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Could Trek handle a post-apocalypse?
steamwright
Member Posts: 2,820
Could a Trek series really handle a post-apocalyptic universe? I'm not talking a one-shot episode showing what might have been or what a single society did. I'm also not talking about a limited run of a couple of episodes, like "Year of Hell" on Voyager, or some of the screwed up time events in Enterprise. I'm not even talking about blowing up one of the primary planets like...you know.
Could a Trek series succeed at portraying the aftermath of a scenario where something nasty has come through and decimated nearly every populated world around the Alpha-Beta quadrants border, regardless of political affiliation?
The closest thing we've seen (on film or TV) with a lasting effect would be the Romulus destruction and subsequent alt-Vulcan destruction, and there we've only seen the madness aboard one ship, and a reference or two to a small colony of Vulcan survivors. (Present game company excluded) But that is two civilizations, I'm looking for a bigger picture.
Personally, I think it would be amazing to see how they show the remnants of the Federation kicked hard in the teeth of their eternal optimism stagger, try to re-evaluate their beliefs when faced with devastating, including conditions they never thought they'd see again, like starvation and limited ships & defense. How do you pull together when your dreams of a galaxy in harmony are so shattered? How do you protect other dangerous things like the secrets of Talosians, Baku, or the Guardian of Forever?
I think it would be intriguing to see a Klingon Empire hit so hard that they actually begin to doubt and even fear (just a bit). How do they regain their confidence and rebuild?
With the major powers devastated, do new powers arise? Does the Orion Syndicate, for example, become a major power? Do planets break ties and form new ones?
Could a Trek series succeed at portraying the aftermath of a scenario where something nasty has come through and decimated nearly every populated world around the Alpha-Beta quadrants border, regardless of political affiliation?
The closest thing we've seen (on film or TV) with a lasting effect would be the Romulus destruction and subsequent alt-Vulcan destruction, and there we've only seen the madness aboard one ship, and a reference or two to a small colony of Vulcan survivors. (Present game company excluded) But that is two civilizations, I'm looking for a bigger picture.
Personally, I think it would be amazing to see how they show the remnants of the Federation kicked hard in the teeth of their eternal optimism stagger, try to re-evaluate their beliefs when faced with devastating, including conditions they never thought they'd see again, like starvation and limited ships & defense. How do you pull together when your dreams of a galaxy in harmony are so shattered? How do you protect other dangerous things like the secrets of Talosians, Baku, or the Guardian of Forever?
I think it would be intriguing to see a Klingon Empire hit so hard that they actually begin to doubt and even fear (just a bit). How do they regain their confidence and rebuild?
With the major powers devastated, do new powers arise? Does the Orion Syndicate, for example, become a major power? Do planets break ties and form new ones?
Post edited by steamwright on
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However it would be drastically different from everything we have seen so far in the Star Trek franchise. So it would result in a lot of whining and moaning from the fanbase, because "it's not really Star Trek at all".
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Not exactly too dire, but still a bit post-apocalyptic.
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Gotta noodle on this for a while, but this may have inspired me...
Ugh. Yet another white male human lead. TRIBBLE that.
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I remember. I liked Andromeda (first two years anyway), but Andromeda still came across as something of a sunny disposition. I'd like to see the Federation remnants without that sunny forecast, to struggle in the crucible a good long while not only to survive physically, but as a political and philosophical entity. What is that philosophy worth if never put to a real test? We actually saw cracks in it during DS9's Dominion War. (Remember, for example, Quark's observation to Nog about humans?) What may come from the ashes here is a reforged philosophy, possibly somewhat different than that which Kirk and Picard defended, but stronger.
EDIT: Hmm, wow. It doesn't go far enough, but is a lot more than I ever thought I'd see. I'd have watched it. (The ship is, um, interesting, but I'd love to have the uniforms in-game)
I never liked this idea. It seems as if the Federation lost the war...or at least took a heavy beating. I couldn't really see them doing exploration.
Not too keen on the enterprise look either
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My delta recruit that I will also fanfic will be from the reboot universe stuck here. I may switch it to a crew from an alt universe where the Federation was wiped out by the Iconians...they're experience with fighting them is why they are in the STO universe.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
However, I also think WAY too many fans would complain about it... you step too far out of the "Roddenberry Box" and people really lose it (how's that for irony, LOL). Post-apocalyptic humans may be too "un-Trek" in their characterizations... I mean, you thought the criticism of DS9 or Into Darkness was bad... oy.
That's...kind of antithetical to the very idea of Star Trek. It's supposed to be a future that you would actually want to live in. You have Star Wars, Warhammer 40K, FarScape, Babylon 5, and countless other settings where you can have a negative or pragmatic future. Star Trek is supposed to be optimistic.
Which is why I don't think Trek could do post-apocalyptic, at least not in the traditional sense. You could get a Sci-Fi series that has Romulans and Klingons and Galaxy-classes and so on...but it wouldn't be Trek. Not really. Not if you're trying to extend a pall of pessimism across the entire setting.
Doing a series like this would be like...like doing a FarScape series set on and near Earth, or a Warhammer 40K series where humanity is winning. It's not that it wouldn't necessarily make a good setting, but rather that at that point you're so different from the fundamental assumptions of the series that you'd be more intellectually honest if you just renamed the series and created a new IP.
So how would Star Trek handle a main setting like that? :cool:
I kind of like the idea of linking it to the Delta Recruit deal, but now that that's been claimed, it's off the table.
My character Tsin'xing
Eh...if handled carefully, this could probably work. There could be some serious questioning of the various decisions made that caused the apocalypse, but not any serious question as to whether or not the fundamental ideals of the Federation (except, maybe, the Prime Directive) are sound (and the Prime Directive only because literally the only reason why it exists is so that Kirk could dramatically defy it).
The Borg having overrun everything but then having been defeated is possible, but a bit overused. An Omega disaster, as was the idea behind Final Frontier, ain't a bad idea, with the caveat that whatever Omega did to subspace should by-and-large have fixed itself by now.
Omega has the added benefit of forcing various Federation worlds to go it alone for some time. If the Omega effect repaired itself unevenly, you could then have different worlds reaching out again thereafter at different paces. Say if if the Omega effect repaired itself around Vulcan first, allowing the Vulcans to extend outwards in a new interstellar nation before the Omega effect repaired itself around Andor or Earth, such that by the time those two worlds can start extending outwards again the new Vulcan Protectorate has already been established for decades (or even centuries).
(This is just an example, by the way, I'm not trying to steer this towards Enterprise II: Electric Boogaloo, you could easily replace Vulcan with Andor, Tellar, the Orions, whoever).
Now, since the story would be set in the era where Warp Drive starts to work again, and the more advanced planets are pulling the old blueprints for Warp 5-8 engines out of mothballs (and the lesser advanced yet still-at-least-21st-century-equivalent planets inventing Warp Drive from scratch), the sublight ships would not be a major focus of the story, but they might form a part of the background as the thin thread that had kept worlds in sporadic contact during the "dark age".
Earth, at the epicenter of the Omega disaster, should actually I think remain cut off from the rest of the galaxy, at least in the beginning. Ion storms, subspace distortion fields, nadion clouds, whatever. The point is, no one knows what's happened to nor what is happening on Earth, and figuring out a way to get to Earth is a major plot point of the series.
Alpha Centauri is the new center for humanity. The Centaurans are basically like the Federation we remember. Not the most interesting thing we could do with humanity, but it's important for the audience to have characters it can easily understand and relate to. The Centaurans are amongst the later of the former Federation worlds to gain warp travel again. The Centaurans have the greatest desire to rebuild the Federation both because humans like to build communities, and because of a fundamental desire to figure out how to reconnect with the human homeworld
Andorians have forged a new Andorian Empire. They were the first to be able to leave their homeworld and have taken advantage of this to become the most powerful of the former Federation worlds. The Andorians are rather enjoying being top dog. They're not blue-skinned Klingons and not necessarily villainous, though they are sometimes antagonistic. Basically the Andorians aren't joining the new Federation because they don't see a reason to: they're strong on their own, wealthy on their own, etc. But they don't bear the new Federation any ill will - as long as it doesn't threaten their own interests, anyway.
Vulcans were amongst the last to regain Warp travel. They have become very pacificstic and inward-focused, with little interest in the Galaxy at large: a planet of Sareks, basically (or at least Sarek from "Journey to Babel").
Tellarites gained warp travel around the same time as Centaurans and are very eager to rebuild the Federation, as their world did not fare well post-Omega disaster and they need help rebuilding. This is mostly because I want to see more Tellarites in Trek.
Klingons have fared poorly. The Omega disaster has Balkanized the Empire and their culture, and Klingons now run the gamut from traditionalists to TOS-style untrustworthy, honorless dogs to whatever you'd want to see. Qo'noS does not remain isolated as Earth does, but it no longer can claim to control much of an Empire beyond its immediate environs.
Romulans have fared better than the Klingons only because they've already been kicked around like nothing else. The Romulan Republic was mostly restricted to ch'Rihan'Mol already - they didn't have an interstellar nation to lose (or not much of one, anyway). However, through some quirk of stellar mechanics, the Omega effect repaired itself around the former Empire pretty quickly...meaning that the post-Omega Republic has spent most of its existence in continuous conflict with the former Star Empire, which, in isolation from forces that would work against it in the post-Omega galaxy, was able to regain strength.
Ferengi, sitting at the center of a massive trade empire as they were, did not take the collapse caused by Omega very well at all. This could be a chance to turn them into a third-world kleptocratic Hellhole; or a chance to turn them into the villains that they were originally intended to be. Your choice.
Don't have anything for the other races at the moment.
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I love all your ideas, but the Ferengi.. Mmmh...
I could see them coming out better as a race from this event. Not that we wouldn't find our Quark's or our Farek's and Qwen's, but overall they'd be changed. Their drive of greed and need to barter and trade for wealth would drive technologic advance to where they could operate technology around the Omega affected areas. I can see them coming out as a scientically advanced species, though they'd still be batter's and traders, they'd be less focused on monetary value alone, and would probably see value in reconnecting with species whether friend or for alike.
I'd even go so far to say they'd become a peace organization (shudders along with Quark) or at least act as third party traders like they do in-universe, but I could definitely see them connecting easily with the Alpha Ceturauns. Heck they'd easily replace Andor in a pinch if we're talking of forming a new federation.
Well, I think something would come up that would make Andor eventually come over to the Federation - a Tholian invasion, perhaps. Actually Tholians would be great. On the far side of the largest Omega event, the Tholian Assembly was completely intact, and this is the era that their nonlinear empire has been waiting for, the era where all the other powers in the galaxy are weak, the era that their temporal empire has been gathering resources for.
"NOW IT IS OUR TIME."
When the Omega barrier separating the Tholians from the nascent Federation comes down, they swarm across, having been preparing for this moment for centuries in either direction of it.
As for the Ferengi...I just can't see how their society could survive the Omega catastrophe intact. They depend too much on interstellar trade, and that trade ground to a halt. A lot of talk about the "Former Tower of Commerce," "The Remains of the Sacred Marketplace," etc.
Mind, that same interstellar economy means that a lot of Ferengi were probably not on Ferenginar when Omega went down. These expatriate Ferengi, living amongst others, could have become the science/engineer focused Ferengi you talked about - but the planet itself? Doomed.
To which I respond, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." I disagree entirely. TNG often made things LOOK optimistic but frequently came off as preachy with out-of-touch characters (especially early on). Not to mention the parts where they ignore things like Turkana IV and the Bajoran Occupation.
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that for every Picard there's a dozen Siskos fighting in the trenches so Picard can moralize. It's easy to be optimistic when everything's going your way. It's much harder, and more rewarding, to see a show maintain that hopeful tone when the 'verse has turned against the cast.
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That isn't to say it could work as a spinoff and it's certainly big enough of a space to happen to a small section of the franchise - throwing a newly colonized sector into uncivilized space would probably work pretty well if you want an 'isolated' one.
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And to be fair, Picard's only a self-righteous idiot in season 1 (which was frankly cheesy at best, Encounter at Farpoint excepted) and Season 2 (which was run by Maurice Hurley, who was a louse of the highest order).
He's much more realistic in seasons 3 through 7, such as in Chain of Command and Family.
Now, the Sisko's just a badass.
On the topic of Federation moral cowardice: The Prime Directive was designed to avoid situations like the TRIBBLE planet and the gangster planet from TOS. Kirk made a point of saying that saving a species from extinction is a valid reason to break the PD--in fact, it is immoral to NOT break the Prime Directive in such a situation.
Stuff like "Dear Doctor" and "Time and Again", where the PD is used as an excuse to sit around and watch a species die, is nothing more than using it as a fig leaf for odious moral cowardice.
That said post apoc wouldnt be a good look for Trek.
For me at least, Star Trek should always be a beacon of hope and progress. Even in the face of utter devestation (DS9), trek never lost that willingness to expore and have an optimistic outlook.
Theres too much post apoc dystopian **** already, if anything Trek should lead the way for the future posiscifi era.
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My character Tsin'xing
There was an even worse scenario than "THE BORG ARE EVERYWHERE".
Try this.
On a serious note, I don't know what would cause a scale of death and destruction on this scale, considering that the following cannot do this and go away again:
- The Borg: Assimilated systems all over the place, so there would be a centralized power
- The Undine: Yeah, we kinda learned how to beat the TRIBBLE out of their ships in Scorpion (like it or not)
- The Dominion: again a centralized power
- The Iconians: again a... do I need to finish
Basically, any species that would have something to gain from wiping out the powers of the Alpha and Beta quadrants. Which would indicate conquest, or a preemptive strike.
However, the question of how it happened isn't important for now. First, lets look at how explored space would look like.
I think it would cause a period in which we would resemble the Delta Quadrant. Countless of species, many of them nomadic across the stars, all focussing on what is best for themselves. You'd have private starbases (think Drozana), trade vessels and pirates all over the place. There would be efforts to rebuild a Federation, but it would be tough, with each species simply trying to survive.
The story would probably focuss on the crew of the U.S.S. Ineedagoodname, one of the last Starfleet vessels, still upholding the ideals of the Federation on a remote colony world. They would receive contact from another colony, sparking them to stop defending their colony and begin reaching out. Begin rebuilding a Federation. One which could also absorb powers such as the Klingons and the Cardassians. We could have a lot of space for the Vulcan-Romulan reunification, considering both of them have lost so much they realize they need each other to survive.
It would actually look a lot like Enterprise I believe, especially if we want to keep optimism. We would be following a ship flying almost blind, relying on star charts that still show destroyed systems, trying to regain the knowledge they lost, without a mighty fleet to back them up. Just one ship, with more years away from being finished. Trying to regain the peace they lost. Making the first contact in decades with other species, remembering the good old times, needing to put time and effort into convincing that a joint coalition would be in the best interest of each other.
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I think I might use the Omega thing after all, only with someone discovering a new FTL method. Unfortunately, the new drive was discovered shortly before the Event, and the knowledge was never disseminated before the Collapse. Now a ragtag group (gotta have a ragtag group in any good post-apoc) has found the one prototype ship Starfleet built, the USS Highly Improbable (note: placeholder name), and set out to try to rebuild the old Federation or something vaguely like it.
Some short-range use of the old warp ships is still possible in limited areas; the Ferengi are holding on, barely, in a "trade empire" covering six systems, while their once-disregarded scientists tinker with a clumsy early version of the new drive, while the Andorians maintain an iron grip over their home system by restricting use of warp ships (which function only within the system) to the Guard. To their credit, Andorians have tried to hang onto some of the ideals of the Federation, although obviously they've relaxed restrictions against genetic modification, as it's the only way their species can survive (with their odd breeding patterns). Vulcan has become insular, with only a small clade of socially-isolated scientists even trying to go offworld any more. No one has heard from Earth, not even a maser message, since the Collapse. What's happened with the Klingons? The Romulans? The other Romulans? Who knows?
On the plus side, nobody's seen the Borg since then, either - the Event collapsed transwarp conduits as well, and might have been instituted deliberately to stop a Borg invasion. (Over the two or three centuries since the Collapse, the records have become somewhat unreliable. Have to make the span that long so there won't be any living Vulcans who were part of Starfleet.)
Why did the Event happen? No one knows for sure, although there are nearly as many theories as there are people. Some of the theories blame Earth, so Humans aren't terribly well-regarded in many areas (they've been officially barred from Tellar, for instance - "haven't those shaved apes done enough?"). Underlying the story will be a side-quest for that answer. Mostly, our protagonists will be trying to restore peace, and something resembling unity, to their part of the galaxy.