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Let's talk about: Kit Powers

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    bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited January 2014
    But not in PvP where people are generally smart enough to avoid them.

    It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
    A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

    Has damage got out of control?
    This is the last thing I will post.
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    kadamskadams Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    But not in PvP where people are generally smart enough to avoid them.

    Mines require careful placement to be effective. That's how it is, that's how it always has been, and that's how it always will be. It's a simple fact. You're placing stationary explosives in the ground and relying on your enemy to blunder into them. That's how mines are, and have always been, and generally *will* be until someone figures out how to make them move toward the enemy. The Russians tried it during WWII with dogs. It didn't work.

    Some people have a natural talent for figuring out how to use mines properly, an innate knowledge of knowing just when to place them so an enemy will walk into them and have a sudden case of EXPLOOSIONS! Others, do not.

    Some of those who *don't* have that innate knowledge, have realized "HAVE EXPLOSIVES, WILL RUSH" and simply dumping them at the target's feet will also work, especially since the game doesn't have friendly fire where you can get blown up by being stupid enough to use explosives in CQC.

    Hit them with Fuse Armor (which is also part of the CMB kit), rush up to club them in the face with a big stick and drop CMB. While they're trying to either kill you before the mines activate, you can keep hitting them in the face with a melee weapon (or your rifle, or just circle strafe them with the pulsewave), or they'll be trying to get away from the mines before they activate. Either way, they're distracted and a prime target for a tac to shoot them in the back with a super charged sniper rifle burst.

    Generally, isn't engineering ground about using fabrications and things to harass and distract enemies? As opposed to "BUFF THE FFFF UP, SHOOT THEM IN THE FFFF FACE WITH THE PULSEWAVE" like Tac or "KEEP SHOOTING AT ME! IT TICKLES! AHAHAHA!" science.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    How would you feel about, say, Weapons Malfunction being a 60 second cooldown instead of 30 seconds - but being a much bigger deal when it goes off? Are there any Kit Powers that you really like being able to use every 15 seconds?
    Fair point - our systems do tend to handle "tons of small critters" much better than "One big imposing guy". Fights like the Devidian Captain in the Devidian series or the Mech Captains in the battlezone are few and far between. Maybe Weapons Malfunction isn't well-suited to being a boss-disabling power, but is better as a damage mitigation strategy against Lieutenants or Commanders, and therefore needs a shorter 24-36 second cooldown. Still though, with only a 4-6 second disable at that recharge, is it worth using instead of just firing your weapon?

    Weapons Malfunction is currently a strong power, but you have to invest skill points into it. I have 6 bars in Modification Specialist. These are my stats for Weapons Malfunction:

    30 meter Range
    0.5 sec activate
    30 sec recharge

    -33.3% Ranged weapons damage for 28.4 sec
    Disables ranged weapons for 14.2 sec
    10% chance: Expose target for 8 sec


    I think Weapons Malfunction is rarely used for two reasons:

    1. Those who play engineer infrequently don't know about it. They prefer turrets and mortars, because those create a more visible effect. Consequently, they don't put skill points into Modification Specialist.

    2. There aren't many enemy NPCs that require it. Weapons malfunction is very useful against elite tac drones and bosses in STFs. But most other NPCs die too quickly.


    If weapons malfunction had a longer cooldown, I'm not sure I would put so many skill points into Modification Specialist. I think the only other power the skill affects is Fuse Armor. I'm not sure where I would reinvest the skill points though. I use the Enemy Neutralization kit most of the time, and I already have max Demolitions. Combat Armor isn't very useful because of diminishing returns to damage resistance. And the other skills affect kit powers that I rarely use.


    Also, when you have the time, can you take a look at this bug:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=896211

    The creative trait doesn't seem to affect many engineering powers.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    • Force Field Dome I/II/III: Deploys a mobile Force Field Dome around the Engineer (5 meter sphere) for 20 seconds. To self: Sprint Disabled. - To self and allies: +10/15/20% All Shield Damage resistance, +20 All Damage Resistance Rating, 10% chance to reflect a portion of incoming ranged attacks. To foe: Repel. 60 second cooldown.
    • Equipment Diagnostics III: Duration/cooldown changes: 20 second duration/60 second cooldown.
    • Medical Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile hit point healing field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +5/10/15 hit points/second, +15/20/25 All Damage Resistance Rating. 20 second shared cooldown with Shield Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Shield Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile shield healing field field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +6/8/10 shield regeneration/second, +10/15/20% All Shield Damage Resistance. 20 second shared cooldown with Medical Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Turret Fabrication III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-turret on the Engineer for 30 seconds. Attacks Engineer's currently selected enemy target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 30 meter range. 60 second cooldown. Uses special point defense plasma flamethrower fire attack with Romulan Embassy Turret IV.
    • Quantum Mortar Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-firing quantum mortar on the engineer for 30 seconds. Launches a quantum mortar every 3 seconds at the engineer's current target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 50 meter range, line of sight is not required. Quantum Mortar takes 3 seconds to reach the target and standard warning animations are present. Upon impact, deals X kinetic damage (50% shield penetration) in a 5 meter sphere. 50% chance: Knock back +10 meters. 60 second cooldown.

    I find the idea of mobile fabrications interesting. The reason I don't use fabrications very often is that in many ground missions, you are constantly on the run. However, would centering them on the engineer remove the ability to destroy the fabrications independently of the engineer? Currently, players are harder to kill than fabrications. Also, how would this new mechanic work with doffs that allow you to spawn multiple copies of fabrications? Perhaps, it is better for fabrications to be mobile pets that follow the engineer.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited January 2014
    kadams wrote: »
    Mines require careful placement to be effective. That's how it is, that's how it always has been, and that's how it always will be. It's a simple fact. You're placing stationary explosives in the ground and relying on your enemy to blunder into them. That's how mines are, and have always been, and generally *will* be until someone figures out how to make them move toward the enemy. The Russians tried it during WWII with dogs. It didn't work.

    Some people have a natural talent for figuring out how to use mines properly, an innate knowledge of knowing just when to place them so an enemy will walk into them and have a sudden case of EXPLOOSIONS! Others, do not.

    Some of those who *don't* have that innate knowledge, have realized "HAVE EXPLOSIVES, WILL RUSH" and simply dumping them at the target's feet will also work, especially since the game doesn't have friendly fire where you can get blown up by being stupid enough to use explosives in CQC.

    Hit them with Fuse Armor (which is also part of the CMB kit), rush up to club them in the face with a big stick and drop CMB. While they're trying to either kill you before the mines activate, you can keep hitting them in the face with a melee weapon (or your rifle, or just circle strafe them with the pulsewave), or they'll be trying to get away from the mines before they activate. Either way, they're distracted and a prime target for a tac to shoot them in the back with a super charged sniper rifle burst.

    Generally, isn't engineering ground about using fabrications and things to harass and distract enemies? As opposed to "BUFF THE FFFF UP, SHOOT THEM IN THE FFFF FACE WITH THE PULSEWAVE" like Tac or "KEEP SHOOTING AT ME! IT TICKLES! AHAHAHA!" science.

    Easy on the rage there, just saying what some of the common complaints about mines are and that is generally you need someone to be dumb enough to run into them or make a leap of faith which ends in death, lol.

    Personally I only use them in PvE where NPCs are dumb enough to walk into them but I can see why some might think they're underpowered in PvP as they disappear after a while and are mostly very obvious.

    It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
    A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

    Has damage got out of control?
    This is the last thing I will post.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    bpharma wrote: »
    Easy on the rage there, just saying what some of the common complaints about mines are and that is generally you need someone to be dumb enough to run into them or make a leap of faith which ends in death, lol.

    Personally I only use them in PvE where NPCs are dumb enough to walk into them but I can see why some might think they're underpowered in PvP as they disappear after a while and are mostly very obvious.

    Personally, I find the transphasic bomb harder to use than mines. Even NPCs are smart enough to run away from the bomb, though it's not so bad if you use Fuse Armor on them first. The transphasic bomb is useful, however, for destroying generators in KAGE and killing saboteurs in the second phase of Starbase Incursion.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    I find the idea of mobile fabrications interesting. The reason I don't use fabrications very often is that in many ground missions, you are constantly on the run. However, would centering them on the engineer remove the ability to destroy the fabrications independently of the engineer? Currently, players are harder to kill than fabrications. Also, how would this new mechanic work with doffs that allow you to spawn multiple copies of fabrications? Perhaps, it is better for fabrications to be mobile pets that follow the engineer.

    Ideally the fabrications would be AoE abilities or (in the case of turrets) auto-attack abilities. This would make them indestructible. A mobile turret that follows the engineer would be redundant to Support Drone and Seeker Drone. Fabrication duty officers could add +1 or +2 shots per fire cycle, or it could possibly receive a chance to allow turrets to attack multiple targets at a given moment. (Turret fire at will?)
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Chronoton mines need a longer animation lock. These mines where obviously designed to be defensive but their short animation allows them and causes them to be used as a 1 shot offensive attack in pvp. Also, Mortars need to work off of line of sight or have a shorter range. The mortar spam in the ground pvp is ridiculous.
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    wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,684 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Morters dont need line of sight in real life just a spoter so why should there in a game
    gs9kwcxytstg.jpg
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ideally the fabrications would be AoE abilities or (in the case of turrets) auto-attack abilities. This would make them indestructible. A mobile turret that follows the engineer would be redundant to Support Drone and Seeker Drone. Fabrication duty officers could add +1 or +2 shots per fire cycle, or it could possibly receive a chance to allow turrets to attack multiple targets at a given moment. (Turret fire at will?)

    I agree that a mobile turret would be functionally the same as a support drone. My concern is that killing an engineer with mounted fabrications would be harder than killing independently targetable fabrications. I do find that fabrications currently die a little too fast for my liking, so maybe your idea is better.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Here is a few of my suggestions.

    Engineers can do multiple animations at the same time. Watch some of them. They can hold with the Devidian Cane and plant mines, they can also interact with items, like the console in shanty and do other animations. This needs to be fixed.

    I think grenades, orbital strikes, and mortar rings should close faster. It is sad that you can dodge out of these abilities. It is almost impossible to do in real life so you should take some type of damage if these items are throw you direction.

    Damping field should be a target lock. (This is a captains ability not a kit.). It should stay with the owner of the debuff. Or make it strip buffs for everyone in it. It is said to see a tac buff and science throw a damping field and the tactical move out of the field and then fire. The dubuff needs to stick or strip

    Nanite infestation needs to stop hitting friendlies or bouncing back.

    I would like to see force filed dome have a reflect a certain percent of damage back to owner. Or another I deal is allow the ability to be cast onto allies.

    I think engineer toys should have a threat reduction built into them. It seems to me that NPCs lock onto them until they are destroyed. Generators like the medical gen give them the ability to cleans DoT if you are under its HoT for five seconds. This is also a horrible animation. It looks like Engineers make this things out of nothing. I would change the animation to a communicator call, also give the ability to cast them in any level direction while in shooter mode. After all this stuff is technically being beamed down.

    Sweeping strike needs to have a damage resistance added while in animation. Or a 75% dodge built in.

    Stasis filed need to hold. I love how control powers can be resisted. Some resistance needs to be lessened on certain powers, maybe make this a slow instead of an immobilize. Also reduce damage output. Clears under normal hold cleansing.

    Sonic pulse needs to be able to break stealth module.

    Rally Cry needs to give a perception bonus, if it does not already, and a stronger heal.

    Chroniton Mines needs to be fixed. Sometimes they clump together. Then hard to avoid all. A player in PvP can stack all five real close. Also something needs to be done about how they react with environment. Taking damage from them through objects is absurd.

    To buff the transphasic bomb I would remove the the ability to target them. The bomb is a deterrent. Also add the proximity ability back.

    Weapons malfunction should be put on the same cooldown as a power cell, also reduce the resistance time to 30 seconds. This would make it a timing game instead of a spamming game.

    I would try to get all cooldowns to one minute on kit abilities. If you sacrifice up time to the same ratio. An example of this is Overwatch. Reduce the cooldown to 60 sec form 90. This is a third of a reduction in cooldown. Then take the third and reduce the uptime on it from 30 seconds to 20.

    I also know that the stasis pistol is not a kit power but, is a cheap tactic to be stasis end with the pistol and and have mines and bombs and orbitals thrown at you and you can do nothing about it. Make the no damage ability last longer than the stasis to allow player to get out of harms way. Also give the player in the stasis a none clearable weapons malfunction for the same time until the damage immunity debuff wears off.
    320x240.jpg
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Here is a few of my suggestions.

    I think grenades, orbital strikes, and mortar rings should close faster. It is sad that you can dodge out of these abilities. It is almost impossible to do in real life so you should take some type of damage if these items are throw you direction.
    Orbital strikes do 900+ damage, Mortars do a minimum of 500 damage per hit (before resistances), and most Grenades have some pretty nasty effects/damage when they strike. Personally, I'd be very reluctant to significantly decrease warnings, they are on par with Sniper Shot.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Damping field should be a target lock. (This is a captains ability not a kit.). It should stay with the owner of the debuff. Or make it strip buffs for everyone in it. It is said to see a tac buff and science throw a damping field and the tactical move out of the field and then fire. The dubuff needs to stick or strip
    While that would make for a good trait or doff ability, that would mean the field would disengage when the primary target died. It wouldn't be as effective for area denial.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I think engineer toys should have a threat reduction built into them. It seems to me that NPCs lock onto them until they are destroyed. Generators like the medical gen give them the ability to cleans DoT if you are under its HoT for five seconds. This is also a horrible animation. It looks like Engineers make this things out of nothing. I would change the animation to a communicator call, also give the ability to cast them in any level direction while in shooter mode. After all this stuff is technically being beamed down.
    What are your thoughts about spawning the fabrications on the engineer himself with the generators as area of effect auras similar to cruiser commands?
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Sonic pulse needs to be able to break stealth module.
    Sonic pulse already breaks stealth module.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Rally Cry needs to give a perception bonus, if it does not already, and a stronger heal.
    Right now, Rally Cry IV gives +8% Critical Chance, +80% Critical Severity, +20 Damage Resistance Rating, and +9 Hit Points/Second to self and team. The ability is quite powerful already, the 120 second cooldown kills it though.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Weapons malfunction should be put on the same cooldown as a power cell, also reduce the resistance time to 30 seconds. This would make it a timing game instead of a spamming game.
    Weapons Malfunction has a 30 second cooldown and Large Power Cell has a 30 second cooldown. Reducing the resistance period to 30 seconds would mean the engineer would have 100% lockdown uptime on a specific target, as the ability lasts for 30 seconds. Under Tactical initiative, the engineer would be able to single handedly lock down 3 targets constantly, more if they have the malfunction chaining duty officer.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I would try to get all cooldowns to one minute on kit abilities. If you sacrifice up time to the same ratio. An example of this is Overwatch. Reduce the cooldown to 60 sec form 90. This is a third of a reduction in cooldown. Then take the third and reduce the uptime on it from 30 seconds to 20.
    Agreed, abilities with cooldowns longer than one minute are not viable.
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I also know that the stasis pistol is not a kit power but, is a cheap tactic to be stasis end with the pistol and and have mines and bombs and orbitals thrown at you and you can do nothing about it. Make the no damage ability last longer than the stasis to allow player to get out of harms way. Also give the player in the stasis a none clearable weapons malfunction for the same time until the damage immunity debuff wears off.
    Stasis pistol needs to respect hold cleanses, that would solve the problem completely. For now, there is always /logout when a team is abusing that problem.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I would lower the weapons mal to a 10-15 sec debuff. I always carry power cells to clear it.

    I have Sonic pulsed numerous cloakers and it will not uncloak them.

    Gen idea I like.
    320x240.jpg
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I would lower the weapons mal to a 10-15 sec debuff. I always carry power cells to clear it.

    I have Sonic pulsed numerous cloakers and it will not uncloak them.

    Gen idea I like.

    The knock back from sonic pulse is what breaks the cloak. If they don't get knocked down by it, it doesn't break their cloak.
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    stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    I agree that a mobile turret would be functionally the same as a support drone. My concern is that killing an engineer with mounted fabrications would be harder than killing independently targetable fabrications. I do find that fabrications currently die a little too fast for my liking, so maybe your idea is better.

    Not necessarily. Put something like a movement, power cooldown, shield HP, shield resist or armor resist penalty as part of the toggle skill.

    Or to use another set of ME3 examples...
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm curious if, now that the holidays are over, what Hawk has in mind and is thinking.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I'm curious if, now that the holidays are over, what Hawk has in mind and is thinking.

    I'm guessing he's silently collecting feedback. We did bury him with comments over the holidays. He probably needs time to process everything written here. Either that, or he has closed hailing frequencies until the "Secret Season 9 [REDACTED] Revamp [TM]".
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm guessing he's silently collecting feedback. We did bury him with comments over the holidays. He probably needs time to process everything written here. Either that, or he has closed hailing frequencies until the "Secret Season 9 [REDACTED] Revamp [TM]".

    True, true. Though I am curious about the super-happy-fun-time Season 9 they have planned.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm guessing he's silently collecting feedback. We did bury him with comments over the holidays. He probably needs time to process everything written here. Either that, or he has closed hailing frequencies until the "Secret Season 9 [REDACTED] Revamp [TM]".

    Thats S10. S9 is already entitled "The big bugfix".
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Thats S10. S9 is already entitled "The big bugfix".

    I thought the working title was Star Trek Online: Season 9 - The Big Goodbye. Ah Holodeck malfunctions, they always make things interesting.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Well...tribble has patch notes on changing Combat supply, need to log onto there soon, see what it's like.

    Plus a few other ground changes.

    Wonder what they have planned for the rest of the kit powers.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Well...tribble has patch notes on changing Combat supply, need to log onto there soon, see what it's like.

    Plus a few other ground changes.

    Wonder what they have planned for the rest of the kit powers.

    you spawn a box that shoots out the Dyson ground buffs. It's pretty awesome and it lets you get the buffs then switch kits. The only downside I see is it can still be used in public areas....so yeah...I can just imagine ESD if it goes live like that...
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    you spawn a box that shoots out the Dyson ground buffs. It's pretty awesome and it lets you get the buffs then switch kits. The only downside I see is it can still be used in public areas....so yeah...I can just imagine ESD if it goes live like that...

    Well, I more meant to see how useful it is. I like seeing stuff with my own eyes.

    And yeah, yikes, talk about buff spam all over the place if that goes through, eh?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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