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Wow! Finally

plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,719Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
Just this is good enough for me for today.


There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.
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Comments

  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    Wonder what the streak is, and how many wards it'll burn thru before it hits 100%? I think I've gone thru 10 pres wards once to get something from rank 10 to 11.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 657Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    My hope would be 2x (100% / chance). That would put 10% at 20, 5% at 40, 3% at 67, and 1% at 200. This would stop baiting people with bad luck into using Coals on 3%+ chances, but would still leave Coals clearly best for 1%.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Posts: 159Member Arc User
    A nice addition, but will it make up for all the other screw ups that seem to be in new mod.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,749Member Arc User
    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,749Member Arc User
    The need to slot a ward will be a money maker. Newer players who don't know any better will leave the ward slotted to protect their green/blue marks.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,476Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I think the streak breaker is something like 150% of "expected" .. so 150 for a 1% chance or something like that, but I'm not 100% sure...
    Waiting to see how bad things will be.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,749Member Arc User
    150% seems generous. I'd expected it to be something like 200%. Then you potential for gain/loses would be the same, symmetrical. Say for 10%, if you hit on the first try, that is like gaining 10 wards compared to the average. And if you hit on the 21 try, then that is like losing 10 wards compared to the average.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,253Member Arc User

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Does this mean that the 1/2 dozen Lillends, Alcemist experimenters, and Sleds I have accumulated will be on the AH soon?
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    edited March 2

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Does this mean that the 1/2 dozen Lillends, Alcemist experimenters, and Sleds I have accumulated will be on the AH soon?
    Huh? What do these comps have to do with the OP? I have all 3 comps/mount and I don't think I've seen them have any effect on upgrades.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    The need to slot a ward will be a money maker. Newer players who don't know any better will leave the ward slotted to protect their green/blue marks.

    And this is different from how it works atm how? This change is good. This change is fkn magnificent in fact. Calling this a "money maker" is kinda a stretch and petty.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.

    This is yet another post that is stretching credulity. Why are you assuming the streak breaker to be that miserly? If they made it 200% or even 300% I'm already going to break even if not better. I've had a 10% use 45 wards. The whole concept of a streak breaker is already more then I had hoped for. Let alone all the other QOL changes this has made.
  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,670Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If I recall, the streak breaker is, in fact, 150 as mentioned above. I’ll have to dig though notes to verify and I can’t since I’m on my phone, but I’m almost positive that was the number.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,253Member Arc User
    havlocke said:

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Does this mean that the 1/2 dozen Lillends, Alcemist experimenters, and Sleds I have accumulated will be on the AH soon?
    Huh? What do these comps have to do with the OP? I have all 3 comps/mount and I don't think I've seen them have any effect on upgrades.
    Wrong thread. Sorry. I meant to post on the thread about the Account Bound Items.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,685Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2
    This change cannot come soon enough. I just tried refining an R7 to an R8 on live with a 40% chance of success and it took EIGHT tries. For crying out loud!

    R8 to R9, 30% chance of success took FOURTEEN tries. FFS.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • methuselasmethuselas Posts: 200Member Arc User

    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.

    Exactly WHY they won't post it, Hero. ;)

  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.

    Exactly WHY they won't post it, Hero. ;)
    And this comment is exactly WHY people should learn to read before posting. Somebody has already said its been stated that its 150% just two or three posts above this one, Hero ;)
  • methuselasmethuselas Posts: 200Member Arc User
    edited March 2
    havlocke said:

    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.

    Exactly WHY they won't post it, Hero. ;)
    And this comment is exactly WHY people should learn to read before posting. Somebody has already said its been stated that its 150% just two or three posts above this one, Hero ;)
    Actually what was said, verbatim in toto was:

    "I think the streak breaker is something like 150% of "expected" .. so 150 for a 1% chance or something like that, but I'm not 100% sure..."

    and

    "If I recall, the streak breaker is, in fact, 150 as mentioned above. I’ll have to dig though notes to verify and I can’t since I’m on my phone, but I’m almost positive that was the number. "

    This wasn't a developer. It was a player. It's not confirmed and I remember specifically a few years back when people from another site posted numbers that were based on probability for Lockboxes that were banned and the mere utterance of the NAME of that website got you banned.

    This is exactly WHY certain people should think before they speak.

  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    havlocke said:

    Great. I can't wait for the first, "OMG 50% upgrade ate an entire 99 stack of wards" forum post, assuming the streak breaker will not be generous. They should just publish the streak breaker value. It will not take long for the more math inclined players to deduce.

    Exactly WHY they won't post it, Hero. ;)
    And this comment is exactly WHY people should learn to read before posting. Somebody has already said its been stated that its 150% just two or three posts above this one, Hero ;)
    Actually what was said, verbatim in toto was:

    "I think the streak breaker is something like 150% of "expected" .. so 150 for a 1% chance or something like that, but I'm not 100% sure..."

    and

    "If I recall, the streak breaker is, in fact, 150 as mentioned above. I’ll have to dig though notes to verify and I can’t since I’m on my phone, but I’m almost positive that was the number. "

    This wasn't a developer. It was a player. It's not confirmed and I remember specifically a few years back when people from another site posted numbers that were based on probability for Lockboxes that were banned and the mere utterance of the NAME of that website got you banned.

    This is exactly WHY certain people should think before they speak.
    That PLAYER said he had some numbers. Where did he pull it from? The implication was from game notes. You made a reply that was reinforcing an assumption that they wouldn't ever publish streak values. I thought that was wrong. And I replied in the same tone you did.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    edited March 2
    BTW, I was there for the lockbox issue too. And the reason for the whole debacle is because its Lockboxes. Real world money is involved. And this company and its corporate masters get real touchy about that. Its is a completely different issue from the streak breaker mechanism.

    Of course, where lockboxes are concerned I think they are complete and utter (edited so I don't get banned) since by law in most countries you are REQUIRED to reveal the actual odds for any electronic gambling device but again that is a personal and completely separate issue :)
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,080Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they didn't take the obvious step of just letting us spend enough wards to meet the supposed odds for a 100% chance of success.
    Except this still doesn't really address the problem of being cheated by the RNG or the idea that the RNG shouldn't be involved at all. Just a requirement for a certain number of wards.
    So I'm not impressed. It's the most mediocre half measure that is possible to call an improvement.

  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 387Member Arc User

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they do. Here's a post from A DEV.

    The streak breaker is 150 for a rank 14 to 15

    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    The streak breaker is the most important quality of life improvement they made in years for the refinement. Now there's no way anyone would use a coal ward for a >1% upgrade, since the max streak should be 75 preservation wards. This change itself is really massive in terms of ressource-spending to get our enchantments at top level.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,125Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    agilesto said:

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they do. Here's a post from A DEV.

    The streak breaker is 150 for a rank 14 to 15

    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    The streak breaker is the most important quality of life improvement they made in years for the refinement. Now there's no way anyone would use a coal ward for a >1% upgrade, since the max streak should be 75 preservation wards. This change itself is really massive in terms of ressource-spending to get our enchantments at top level.
    Not so fast, it is for 1%s no reason why it should be the same multiple for higher chances of success
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    agilesto said:

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they do. Here's a post from A DEV.

    The streak breaker is 150 for a rank 14 to 15

    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    The streak breaker is the most important quality of life improvement they made in years for the refinement. Now there's no way anyone would use a coal ward for a >1% upgrade, since the max streak should be 75 preservation wards. This change itself is really massive in terms of ressource-spending to get our enchantments at top level.
    Not so fast, it is for 1%s no reason why it should be the same multiple for higher chances of success
    The point was not the value of the streak breaker, the point that agilesto was making was that THEY HAVE given the Streak breaker values. Refuting the doomsayers.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User
    agilesto said:

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they do. Here's a post from A DEV.

    The streak breaker is 150 for a rank 14 to 15

    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    The streak breaker is the most important quality of life improvement they made in years for the refinement. Now there's no way anyone would use a coal ward for a >1% upgrade, since the max streak should be 75 preservation wards. This change itself is really massive in terms of ressource-spending to get our enchantments at top level.
    Forgive my maths but if its 150% then the streak breaker for 1% would be 150 would it not? Rather than 75?
  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 387Member Arc User

    agilesto said:

    Just this is good enough for me for today.


    There is now an option to need to have a ward slotted to upgrade. We added this from many player requests asking for such a system to prevent accidently losing reagents. This option can be turned off in the option menu.

    There is a new option to try until succeed. This was another often asked for player request to eliminate clicking numerous times on lower chance upgrades. Once you click to start this, it cannot be cancelled due to how it fires off behind the scenes. This will stop when it upgrades, or if you run out of wards.

    There is now a streak breaker on upgrades. Each item will have a streak breaker value assigned to it. When this number of attempts is hit, the next upgrade will be 100% chance of success.

    Except they don't tell you what the streak breaker value is.
    Except they do. Here's a post from A DEV.

    The streak breaker is 150 for a rank 14 to 15

    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    The streak breaker is the most important quality of life improvement they made in years for the refinement. Now there's no way anyone would use a coal ward for a >1% upgrade, since the max streak should be 75 preservation wards. This change itself is really massive in terms of ressource-spending to get our enchantments at top level.
    Forgive my maths but if its 150% then the streak breaker for 1% would be 150 would it not? Rather than 75?
    Yes the 150 is for 1%, I was referring at a >1% upgrade, like in M16 R13->R14 at 2%. If the streak break rule is 150% each time, it would be 75 limit at a 2% chance, so effectively better to use P. Wards every time, no loser here.

    However that's true that noworries only talked about the streak limit at 1%. Is that the maximum limit for every upgrade, or is there a different limit (with the same rule, or not) for each rank? Based on the sentence structure "it's 150 for a rank 14 to 15", I'd guess each rank has its own strike limit. But that's still to test, or to ask the devs.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,749Member Arc User
    150 cap on 1% makes using pres wards on 1% upgrade a worthwhile gamble since the max you can lose is half a coal ward. But I think 150% in general would be generous. I'd imagine they have to make it 200-300% to not have a significant impact to profit from pres ward sales. Many well-geared players have all R12s and above so it should not take long for players to deduce what the actual streaker breaker is for those buckets.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,151Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I remember once it took me 150 pwards to give up and make a r11 to a r12 with a coal once. Making it a loss for me .. of like 500k on the enchant.. things like that want to make you drop from the game all together.

    I would hope it would limit that sort of nonsense, but it depends on what their break value is. If its so high that is virtually worthless , then its not worth the coding they put into it.


  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 111Member Arc User
    I am not sure the 1% chance will work as expected with pwards. This seems to be that the value of the streak is higher than the largest stack of wards you can have. This looks to work well on 3% and higher since they are all values under that of a stack of 99.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User

    I am not sure the 1% chance will work as expected with pwards. This seems to be that the value of the streak is higher than the largest stack of wards you can have. This looks to work well on 3% and higher since they are all values under that of a stack of 99.

    I was heading in that direction myself on a calculator :)
  • manipulosmanipulos Posts: 224Member Arc User
    There are a lot of Quality of Life upgrades in Mod16 that I think are not getting the positive feedback they deserve. Changes to refinement and the way companions and their gear are handled are both much appreciated, by me at least! I was to the point with enchants and companions that any more fine-tuning was too tedious, annoying, and expensive so I just didn't bother.
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