T9 Runs - What is your group makeup?

mebengalsfan

First I would like to keep this thread opened, so if you want to throw some insults to each other, go elsewhere.
Second, let's talk about T9.

I have been hearing that T9 is only beatable with the meta of OP Tank, GF DPS, 2 DC and HR/GWF and doing it in reasonable time.

That is very narrow view of how to beat T9. T9 is not all that hard, the hardest part is Orcus. If the group can get by Orcus the rest is fairly easy. Similar to FBI, if you get by the Hill Climb the rest is fairly easy.

I have two character I run T9 with regularly. My CW that is 15K and my 16K DC. I run with a GF who either tanks or DPS. If my friend is on his main, than the GF runs as DPS and if my friend runs any other character the GF is our tank.

Group makes up I have used to beat T9

Standard Meta: 2 DC 16K+, 16K+ OP, 16k+ GF DPS, and 17K GWF - average time is around 25-30 minutes

My Standard group I run T9 with: 2 DC 16K+, GF Tank, 16K SW and 16K HR or GWF - 30-35 minutes

What I am currently doing in my alliance is pulling in new players through T9 and we don't care about the player IL as long as they can get into the dungeon.

Introduction to T9 group: 2 DC (ususally one of us is 16K), 16k OP/16K GF, 16K HR/SW DPS, and any IL DPS average time 40 minutes.

Heroic Accord Group: 1 16K DC, 15k MoF Hybred, 13K+ Templock, GWF/HR 16K DPS and 16K Tank

The other night my standard group we all dropped our IL down to 14K and we beat T9 at 37 minutes.

T9 is not a hard dungeon and it can be beaten in reasonable time. In fact, all of the players that are new to T9 we ask if they want a MSPC run and if they say yes, they all state they rather run T9 over MSPC due to how much easier T9 is compared to MSPC.

T9 does not need 16K players. It does not even need 15K players. You can beat T9 at 14K. I have not tried a 14K heroic accord run yet but I imagine it would be around 45 minutes for us.

Last I ran T9 with 3 SW. We did it in under 40 minutes. One of the SW was a Templock. The other 2 were both DPS. No wipes.

I run T9 now more to help my alliance get more players through it than the award at the end of the dungeon. It is a better experience, IMO, to get a new player on the mic and walk them through T9 and hearing how excited they get when they beat the dungeon.

What are other doing for groups and do you try to run the heroic accord and if so, what is your group makeup?

dairyzeus

2 dcs me on CW, pally, and TR/HR/GWF is my most common group.

I'll get a GF tank or a SW main DPS occasionally too.

Haven't had enough interest to actually get a group together for hero's accord unfortunately.

My most fun run of all time was our no tank run with 2 dcs, healadin, TR, and me on CW.

pitshade

Typically our groups are 2DC, OPP and 2 DPS. The DPS might include DPS GF. We probably run more TR than GWF because there are more of them in our community. Not so much with SW as few are left. We have done some m13 runs with Temptlock and 1 DC that went well, though AC loadout for boss 3 and maybe 2 are almost best.

I have run Heroes Accord several times. Only time I looked at IL was the first where we had 1 at 15k, 3 at 14k and 1 at 13k. It went fine though we had to repeat second boss as that is so RNG dependant.

asterotg

With a group of 2xDC, OP and 2 DDs (or DD and GF or MoF) we do clear tong in ca. 15-20 minutes. IL 15-17k.

Any deviation costs time. While I have no problem helping friends out or carrying one player, I dont want to spent 1 h in Tong, just bc someone wants to run it on his 11k alt and so on. One weak player does cost you 10-15 minutes. If OP and DD suck it might get a very long run.

gromovnipljesak

take whatever as long as there's 1x buff/debuff, 1x healer and 1x tank at least. usually mof/sw+acdc+op/gf+whatever, alongside me who mains a dps.

dragonsbane3

If your group is competent then you can run any setup you want. That dungeon is all about performing mechanics properly. That being said, the more buffs/debuffs you are able to bring along just shaves that much more time off of the whole run.

mebengalsfan

dragonsbane3 said:

If your group is competent then you can run any setup you want. That dungeon is all about performing mechanics properly. That being said, the more buffs/debuffs you are able to bring along just shaves that much more time off of the whole run.

Recently I did a stand 1 tank, 1 DC and 3 DPS run. You need 3 really strong DPS to pull off defeating Orcus before you run out of Temp HP. The three DPS were a GWF, a HR and a CW that was a SS and used RoE on Orcus. I got the balls as a DC and we beat Orcus right when the temp HP wore off. Other than Orcus we ran through T9 rather quickly. Orcus was the only obstacle that took longer than the meta group makeup.

The issue with all of the T3 dungeons is that a group can beat it quicker by going with one true DPS and the rest of the group focused on buffing the DPS. What I find interesting is that the HR combat build with a OP Tank, 2 DC and GF using ITF runs are quicker when compared to running with a GWF. The past few months have taught me one thing about classes, GWF is the most played class with higher geared player, though most of those players are not fully optimize and can easily be out classed by a lower DPS class, SW or CW, by a player that knows the class well. I have seen a few BiS SW beat a BiS GWF or keep up with them in damage in T9, same with a CW.

However, a GWF that knows their class can outshine all but a HR and a well built and played TR in content. HR and really good TR are right there with the GWF. Hopefully the devs can fix CW, SW and do something to make TR a bit easier to get the more damage out.

Regardless, my best runs are taking in players who are support or a dps who never ran a T9. Just hearing the excitement in their voice as they beat it, is worth more than getting a UES in the end chest.

I highly recommend that a high IL group does this, pull in a player new to T9. It really is worth it.

adinosii

Most of my runs are with DO DC (me), AC DC, OP, dps (GWF, HR, very rarely TR), and "whatever" - sometimes the last slot is taken by a GF, sometimes a Mof CW or even a second dps. Run time ranges from 18-25 minutes.

I occasionally run as the only DC (DO most of the time, sometimes switch to AC for the second and/or third boss). The average run time there is longer - typically 25-30 minutes.

Then there are the guild runs which typically include one player who has never been in ToNG before, or who barely meets the requirements - those runs take significantly longer - 45 minutes or so.

The thing is, the group makeup is not the primary factor in determining how smooth the run is, or how long it takes. It is much more important that everyone knows how to play his/her class flawlessly.

ragequittingdc

2 dc 1 op 2 dps is most common for me with 25-30 min completion time. this is when I play as dc and group with random premades of any class and ilvl 14k+. when I get into hero's accord it's around 10-15 minutes longer depending on how experienced the rest of the group is(in pugs that CAN beat it that is). when my friends are on we run 2 dc 1 op 1 gf 1 hr/gwf/tr and average about 22 mins. we could go faster if I had a bigger power share since I play ac in these groups.

pitshade

You can take as long as you need on Orcus with an OPP if the Pally takes left curse and handles the balls. Squishy DPS characters may need to be more aware and dodge the melee attacks if they get aggro from time to time.

If you have a temptlock stand with the tank, the heal aggro make keep the pressure off the DPS while PoP and various other buffs and damage debuffs will let the SW facetank the boss.

juan

I think that the question is how many scrolls you spend with low il players?, too much comparised with high il players, and scrolls are not cheap, i think

sengir0

Just did a run with my guild with the following, GF dps + GWF + CW mof + AC DC + OP. It was one of the best run as everything went so smooth. I think it was done at around 18-20mins. We're starting to replace DO DC now with any dps buff toon.

dragonsbane3

My main group is a SW Combat HR "myself", a OP, GF, 2 DC. We finish ToNG sub 18 min. We use voice via Team speak and the runs go rather smooth when u can coordinate the burst windows. All of our characters are at the 17k ilvl but still have a lot of optimizing we can do. I can see 15 min runs np.

If you goto YouTube there are a few runs posted between 10-12 min mark. They use a GF as main dps and have used a 2nd GF/HR/GWF as the 5th member. The fastest that ive ever killed Orcus is right at the 2 min mark. That group does it in 45 secs. The GF they use is a pure monster.

@mebengalsfan#9264 indeed, my HR is 17.2k ilvl i have been smashing GWF's since i was 11k and they had 3k+ ilvl on me. GWF's have some amazing dmg but they have to be played flawlessly along with the right group timing of buffs/debuffs. If they mess up those windows their dmg drops off a lot. Same goes for a good GF, if they get the coordination down they are the top dps in the game in Meta groups. The way the HR is designed with how our dmg comes from a lot of sources vs the GWF main dmg from buffed up IBS crits or the GF buffed up 3x GW hits. We are less dependent on that window and do great dmg over all. But let a decent GWF or GF line everything up and they walk all over everyone else.


If you would like to see one of if not the top GWF and the numbers he is capable of putting up. Check out his build here and watch his videos at tje bottom.

http://mmominds.com/2018/01/23/wickedduck-mod-13-gwf-build/

majorcharvenak

My few runs exist off the charity of others. Friends mostly. Composition varies.

trzebiat

My usual group is me on CW, then OP, AC DC and DO DC (often pocket DO) and 5th is any DPS class, most times it's a friend on lower IL GWF, very very rarely we have GF, not to mention about good DPS GF. As long I have my own private AC DC with me (because we have quite good synergy), a properly build and played OP and DO DC (even pocket DO) who knows what to do and takes good care of HG and empBtS, we get 22-23 min runs no matter who the 5th person is and it can go faster if it's not a carry, especially with GF and if OP could go Dev on bosses to use Bane on DPS. We've run in this setup many times carrying lower level guild members and 22-23 min is the usual time, very smooth runs. Ran yesterday with our friend on GWF without enchants and even without bondings, still got it done in 21 min. We don't try to speed run things though.

mebengalsfan

My fastest run now has been with the following.

OP Tank, 2 DCs, TR and a GF DPS. The TR finishes off the bosses health that the GF could not do with the mighty buffed GW. The run was a bit over 12 minutes. We did 5 runs and all were a bit over 12 minutes. The GF stated, get a HR using LSS and we would have finished the run in under 11 minutes.

The thing is though, I hate speed runs. You avoid mechanics and simply burn everything and many of the players running like this are simply not learning the dungeon and if the devs adjust things to the point where you need to do mechanics they won't know what to do and simply not be invited into groups.

This is why I spend most of my time in T9 explaining mechanics and helping new players get through T9. This helps the community as now more player are aware of the mechanics and know how to play T9 properly when and if the adjustment hammer comes down on whatever is considered not working as inteneded.

T9 is easy and IMO is one of the better dungeons in NW. My other favorite is CN.

mebengalsfan

dragonsbane3 said:

My main group is a SW Combat HR "myself", a OP, GF, 2 DC. We finish ToNG sub 18 min. We use voice via Team speak and the runs go rather smooth when u can coordinate the burst windows. All of our characters are at the 17k ilvl but still have a lot of optimizing we can do. I can see 15 min runs np.



If you goto YouTube there are a few runs posted between 10-12 min mark. They use a GF as main dps and have used a 2nd GF/HR/GWF as the 5th member. The fastest that ive ever killed Orcus is right at the 2 min mark. That group does it in 45 secs. The GF they use is a pure monster.



@mebengalsfan#9264 indeed, my HR is 17.2k ilvl i have been smashing GWF's since i was 11k and they had 3k+ ilvl on me. GWF's have some amazing dmg but they have to be played flawlessly along with the right group timing of buffs/debuffs. If they mess up those windows their dmg drops off a lot. Same goes for a good GF, if they get the coordination down they are the top dps in the game in Meta groups. The way the HR is designed with how our dmg comes from a lot of sources vs the GWF main dmg from buffed up IBS crits or the GF buffed up 3x GW hits. We are less dependent on that window and do great dmg over all. But let a decent GWF or GF line everything up and they walk all over everyone else.





If you would like to see one of if not the top GWF and the numbers he is capable of putting up. Check out his build here and watch his videos at tje bottom.



http://mmominds.com/2018/01/23/wickedduck-mod-13-gwf-build/

PC is on mod 13 and console is on mod 12.5. We are still a bit behind but I do recommend Mighty mod for those who are curiously about GWF mod 13 changes.

I have a hate relationship with GWF. I find many are to self centered to understand the fact that a DPS, in a well built group, can be any DPS even one without enchantments can be taken through T9. I had one GWF tell me he is in the 1% because of his IL and he gets on YouTube. I laughed about that.

My friend who does not consider himself an elite GWF tanked Rasi after we lost the OP and the 2nd DPS. So it was 2 DC and one GWF and we killed Rasi without a tank and without a 2nd DPS. Total number of scrolls used on that fight, 1 and that was by the GWF. Our time at the end was 28 minutes. We would have finished sooner but when you loose the tank and the 2nd DPS it adds time to the run. IMO, my friend is closer to the 1% of great GWF because he was able to hold threat and tank Rasi and keep Rasi off two DCs. But, we both laugh it up as a good run and that is all.

After all, NW even with its most challenging dungeons is still easy compared to other MMOs. In fact, most of the players here probably could not survive the good old days of EQ.

gromovnipljesak

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

dragonsbane3 said:

My main group is a SW Combat HR "myself", a OP, GF, 2 DC. We finish ToNG sub 18 min. We use voice via Team speak and the runs go rather smooth when u can coordinate the burst windows. All of our characters are at the 17k ilvl but still have a lot of optimizing we can do. I can see 15 min runs np.



If you goto YouTube there are a few runs posted between 10-12 min mark. They use a GF as main dps and have used a 2nd GF/HR/GWF as the 5th member. The fastest that ive ever killed Orcus is right at the 2 min mark. That group does it in 45 secs. The GF they use is a pure monster.



@mebengalsfan#9264 indeed, my HR is 17.2k ilvl i have been smashing GWF's since i was 11k and they had 3k+ ilvl on me. GWF's have some amazing dmg but they have to be played flawlessly along with the right group timing of buffs/debuffs. If they mess up those windows their dmg drops off a lot. Same goes for a good GF, if they get the coordination down they are the top dps in the game in Meta groups. The way the HR is designed with how our dmg comes from a lot of sources vs the GWF main dmg from buffed up IBS crits or the GF buffed up 3x GW hits. We are less dependent on that window and do great dmg over all. But let a decent GWF or GF line everything up and they walk all over everyone else.





If you would like to see one of if not the top GWF and the numbers he is capable of putting up. Check out his build here and watch his videos at tje bottom.



http://mmominds.com/2018/01/23/wickedduck-mod-13-gwf-build/

PC is on mod 13 and console is on mod 12.5. We are still a bit behind but I do recommend Mighty mod for those who are curiously about GWF mod 13 changes.

I have a hate relationship with GWF. I find many are to self centered to understand the fact that a DPS, in a well built group, can be any DPS even one without enchantments can be taken through T9. I had one GWF tell me he is in the 1% because of his IL and he gets on YouTube. I laughed about that.

My friend who does not consider himself an elite GWF tanked Rasi after we lost the OP and the 2nd DPS. So it was 2 DC and one GWF and we killed Rasi without a tank and without a 2nd DPS. Total number of scrolls used on that fight, 1 and that was by the GWF. Our time at the end was 28 minutes. We would have finished sooner but when you loose the tank and the 2nd DPS it adds time to the run. IMO, my friend is closer to the 1% of great GWF because he was able to hold threat and tank Rasi and keep Rasi off two DCs. But, we both laugh it up as a good run and that is all.

After all, NW even with its most challenging dungeons is still easy compared to other MMOs. In fact, most of the players here probably could not survive the good old days of EQ.

I agree that GWFs generally tend to assume they're god-tier players for some reason, and it's hilarious as lately, I've been doing cradles with those same 17-18k GWFs that get destroyed by sub 17k HRs and TRs and stuff. What I have noticed is that - the best GWFs tend to have the "i'm good but not that good" mentality, just because they know they'd get rekt by WickedDuck.

But to make a GWF (or really anyone) tank, you just gotta have 2 competent DCs. Heck, I even finished once with just a paladin from 40% health. So even that is barely an indication of skills, because DPS generally depends on supports for practically everything.

mebengalsfan

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

dragonsbane3 said:

My main group is a SW Combat HR "myself", a OP, GF, 2 DC. We finish ToNG sub 18 min. We use voice via Team speak and the runs go rather smooth when u can coordinate the burst windows. All of our characters are at the 17k ilvl but still have a lot of optimizing we can do. I can see 15 min runs np.



If you goto YouTube there are a few runs posted between 10-12 min mark. They use a GF as main dps and have used a 2nd GF/HR/GWF as the 5th member. The fastest that ive ever killed Orcus is right at the 2 min mark. That group does it in 45 secs. The GF they use is a pure monster.



@mebengalsfan#9264 indeed, my HR is 17.2k ilvl i have been smashing GWF's since i was 11k and they had 3k+ ilvl on me. GWF's have some amazing dmg but they have to be played flawlessly along with the right group timing of buffs/debuffs. If they mess up those windows their dmg drops off a lot. Same goes for a good GF, if they get the coordination down they are the top dps in the game in Meta groups. The way the HR is designed with how our dmg comes from a lot of sources vs the GWF main dmg from buffed up IBS crits or the GF buffed up 3x GW hits. We are less dependent on that window and do great dmg over all. But let a decent GWF or GF line everything up and they walk all over everyone else.





If you would like to see one of if not the top GWF and the numbers he is capable of putting up. Check out his build here and watch his videos at tje bottom.



http://mmominds.com/2018/01/23/wickedduck-mod-13-gwf-build/

PC is on mod 13 and console is on mod 12.5. We are still a bit behind but I do recommend Mighty mod for those who are curiously about GWF mod 13 changes.

I have a hate relationship with GWF. I find many are to self centered to understand the fact that a DPS, in a well built group, can be any DPS even one without enchantments can be taken through T9. I had one GWF tell me he is in the 1% because of his IL and he gets on YouTube. I laughed about that.

My friend who does not consider himself an elite GWF tanked Rasi after we lost the OP and the 2nd DPS. So it was 2 DC and one GWF and we killed Rasi without a tank and without a 2nd DPS. Total number of scrolls used on that fight, 1 and that was by the GWF. Our time at the end was 28 minutes. We would have finished sooner but when you loose the tank and the 2nd DPS it adds time to the run. IMO, my friend is closer to the 1% of great GWF because he was able to hold threat and tank Rasi and keep Rasi off two DCs. But, we both laugh it up as a good run and that is all.

After all, NW even with its most challenging dungeons is still easy compared to other MMOs. In fact, most of the players here probably could not survive the good old days of EQ.

I agree that GWFs generally tend to assume they're god-tier players for some reason, and it's hilarious as lately, I've been doing cradles with those same 17-18k GWFs that get destroyed by sub 17k HRs and TRs and stuff. What I have noticed is that - the best GWFs tend to have the "i'm good but not that good" mentality, just because they know they'd get rekt by WickedDuck.

But to make a GWF (or really anyone) tank, you just gotta have 2 competent DCs. Heck, I even finished once with just a paladin from 40% health. So even that is barely an indication of skills, because DPS generally depends on supports for practically everything.

The group I run with can take a 11K not properly geared DPS through T9 and beat it in under 30 minutes; this shows how little a DPS is needed in T9 or any content. Yes that DPS was top on the chart, but they should be given how buffed they were with 2 DC, OP, and a GF all adding buffs to that DPS so they could beat things up. With a 16K+ player it becomes even easier.

T9 can be beaten with a MoF and a AC DC without much issue. It can also be beaten with a Templock and a DC, again without any issues. The other roles are a OP Tank and any two other classes, though with a group that does not use 2 DC, it is best to have strong DPS that are 15K+.

I agree about the GWF and anyone tanking though with the so called GWF that thinks he falls into the 1%, we were in the same situation and he died 2x and than said, we need to wipe without a tank. My friend said, should we wipe and we decided to give it a go and beat it with only 1 scrolled used.

I like NW because this is the first MMO where support roles are heavily used in content over another DPS. In other MMO it is always more DPS in dungeons than support; I feel bad for DPS but at the same time when I see them crying in the Port because they are not getting into groups, I send them a PM and tell them to make a DC and make that their main, problem solved about getting into content.

durugudesu

Just make sure you have the core group filled in and that the core group is someone who fulfills his/her role perfectly, and then it is manageable. 1 dps - 1 tank - 1 dc(sorry not heals). The other 2 slots are bonuses if you can get other debuff/dps to fill it in. basically ANY toon will be fine.

mebengalsfan

durugudesu said:

Just make sure you have the core group filled in and that the core group is someone who fulfills his/her role perfectly, and then it is manageable. 1 dps - 1 tank - 1 dc(sorry not heals). The other 2 slots are bonuses if you can get other debuff/dps to fill it in. basically ANY toon will be fine.

What I don't get is that many forget about a Healadin. They have a higher power sharing than a AC DC does without AA. With the AC DC cannot constantly keep AA up, might as well take along the Healadin. I have it with a OP tank, healadin, 2 DC and 1 DPS.

The issue with the later content is the lack of DPS in the content. I see more support than anything else and it stinks, because this game like other MMOs tend to have 10 DPS to 1 support player.

At least NW provides HR, CW and SW a way to play support roles in the game. The problem is that GWF and TR are assigned to DPS only class and yet a well built and properly buffed GF will outshine both of those classes. The thing is though, even with a SW, HR or CW in T9 are assigned the 4th buffer role instead of being able to DPS. Yeah it is nice to be wanted, but it is annoying that the want is a buffer and not a DPS.

spidey

Last grp i made tong:
1 OP (Healadin with loadout for Prot), 1 DC and me as DPS.
Was fun.
Regulary Set up:
OP, GF, AA DC + DO DC or SW, DPS

rafaelda

nice tread, is good to ear i think i will try tong this weekend, i wasnt running because i'm not planning on farm seals of brave, and everyone was saying it was boring...

my best toos are a 14k GWF and a 13,9k GF "buffer" i did runned MSP with both and if is not much harder as you guys say i think i can do it... be back later to tell how it was

anyway Tks

mebengalsfan

Latest group are...

1 DC, 1 CW DPS, 1 SW DPS, 1 GF DPS and GF Tank....average run time, 22 minutes. The CW DPS runs MoF Opp on bosses for some buffing.

cdnbison

"Standard" group? For me it's been "Whatever we can put together in guild chat - usually a DC (me), OP, TR, and then we've had a variety of any and all other classes in the other slots. Had two SWs once. All have gone off just fine.

wintersmoke

That only a "meta" group can complete ToNG is obvious hyperbole. It is understandable, though. If you are the only player in your guild that has unlocked Hero's Accord, for instance. Or if you have a work/school/life schedule which prevents playing on a regular schedule, so friends are not online when you are. Sometimes PUG queue is the only option. And for those players in THAT position... if you don't fit the meta, You are HAMSTER'd.

majorcharvenak

wintersmoke said:

That only a "meta" group can complete ToNG is obvious hyperbole. It is understandable, though. If you are the only player in your guild that has unlocked Hero's Accord, for instance. Or if you have a work/school/life schedule which prevents playing on a regular schedule, so friends are not online when you are. Sometimes PUG queue is the only option. And for those players in THAT position... if you don't fit the meta, You are HAMSTER'd.

*glances about and slowly raises hand*

wintersmoke

majorcharvenak said:

wintersmoke said:

That only a "meta" group can complete ToNG is obvious hyperbole. It is understandable, though. If you are the only player in your guild that has unlocked Hero's Accord, for instance. Or if you have a work/school/life schedule which prevents playing on a regular schedule, so friends are not online when you are. Sometimes PUG queue is the only option. And for those players in THAT position... if you don't fit the meta, You are HAMSTER'd.

*glances about and slowly raises hand*

Yeah, I'm HAMSTER'd too