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PVP observations mod 12.5 (XBox one)

sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Posts: 282Member Arc User
edited January 12 in PvP Discussion
I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:

1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.

2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.

3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.

4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.

5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).

Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.
image
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Comments

  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,319Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited January 12
    Have some premade people got more brave in attempting (not syncing ) the solo Q or are they still worried about thier K/d ratio
    and bragging about 0 loses and troll entering enemy camps

    ...cause xbox and ps4 community will have the same fate as Pc
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • theguiidotheguiido Posts: 457Member Arc User
    edited January 15
    1. Completely agree, no one can argue that.

    2. Exactly. However, you are wrong regarding Impenetrable Jungle as I have tested it and it does provide CC Immunity Stacks. Initial CC for some classes are very strong. (PvE move basically until it is diminished over time) TR's Dazing strike for example lasts very long even after 2 Dazing Strikes for example. Worst offender is also the OP, Burning Light provides 1 stack yet lasts 10 eons like SB on a TR.

    3.Yeah.

    4.100% agree, not sure what they can do regarding that issue, maybe increase PvP rewards and bring back Neverwinter Combat League or form teams, Competitive Queue or something. Make new maps, modes, make it thrive and make it appealing to bring in new players.

    5. Yeah 2 TR's, a GF, and DC on the same team while I have SW, GWF, and an Archery HR, it's GG. I don't agree with you with CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. As HR's can still wipe nodes, CC crazy (Boar Charge, Plant Growth, Disrupting shot) and people can easily get 1 rotated by a CW, not only that but CW's MoF debuff mixed with renegade is dirty and not something to mess with. I lost to 2 CW's in 1v1's because of Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, and Rappel, keeping me at range and me not near them. (Despite me spamming Menace) They are both very very strong classes, and that many people simply might not just fully understand the true potential of the class. Which is why there is only few very good masters of the class. They are in no way underpowered what so ever.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • pjohnny1pjohnny1 Posts: 89Member Arc User
    My experience so far is pretty much like op stated. New cc system seems to last longer than before . Matches with 2 TR's dropping 2 smoke bombs on a node constantly is just miserable and makes me quit queing. 12b is not much different than mod 12 to me . The only things that changed was solo que is permanent and tenacity went on character instead of gear . Pvp is the red headed step child of neverwinter , barely tolerated , abused whenever possible and completely ignored otherwise .
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Posts: 282Member Arc User
    edited January 17
    @pjohnny1

    I don't think it's so much that cc lasts longer, as the initial cc "burst" is what makes it seem that way. I believe the devs intention was to do just that. I think the way certain cc powers interact with others is there real issue. Prime example of this is smokebomb, which ignores the duration reduction from having a stack of cc resist and just lasts the full duration because of the way the power works (as long as you stand in the circle you remain stunned, regardless of stacks unless your immune). This is what causes the problem your talking about. The stacks don't add up fast enough and are gone before you can get immunity if it's only sb stunning you.

    Either way like I said there seems to be a lack of consistency with the immunity effect either making you immune too much or constantly microstunned by nonsense.

    One last aside kind of off topic, please @noworries#8859 @rgutscheradev or any dev reading this post (if you do read it) or if @nitocris83 you can pass this along:

    FIX THE THUNDERHEAD ARMOR ENHANCEMENT

    I hate typing in all caps like that but this armor enhancement is one of the most annoying stuns in PvP right now. It procs off multiple times when it shouldn't, doesn't seem to apply a stack of cc resist (at least none that I have noticed), and effects too many targets at once.
    image
  • theguiidotheguiido Posts: 457Member Arc User
    The Sandy Assault Pants are also horrid in PvP.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 407Member Arc User
    And yet no 1 is complaining about gf's prones and stuns lol
    Sw- 16.8k IL (pvp build)
    TR- 16.2k IL lv70 (pvp build)
    HR- 14.2k IL (pvp build)
    OP- 14.7k IL (pvp build)
    GWF- 15.5k IL (pve build)


  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,319Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 15
    did you know that a cw has a prone on a daily and a stun on an encounter too and a capstone power that does piercing damage ?? why does not one complain about cw : D

    also did you know some power are stuns( whereas other are called interrupts. .. interrupts are essentially CC piercing powers (like some of the broken rings and boons peirce CC ) whereas stuns can be reduced in duration by cc effects

    not all power are coded or label d correctly and they seem to arbitrarily follow these rules
  • modlesiemodlesie Posts: 114Member Arc User
    edited February 15
    theguiido said:


    5. I don't agree with you with CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. As HR's can still wipe nodes, CC crazy (Boar Charge, Plant Growth, Disrupting shot) and people can easily get 1 rotated by a CW, not only that but CW's MoF debuff mixed with renegade is dirty and not something to mess with. I lost to 2 CW's in 1v1's because of Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, and Rappel, keeping me at range and me not near them. (Despite me spamming Menace) They are both very very strong classes, and that many people simply might not just fully understand the true potential of the class. Which is why there is only few very good masters of the class. They are in no way underpowered what so ever.

    GWF is on GF lvl of brokenes.

  • slylscythe#2086 slylscythe Posts: 3Member Arc User
    edited February 25
    > @sh00termcl0vin said:
    > I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:
    >
    > 1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.
    >
    > 2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.
    >
    > 3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.
    >
    > 4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.
    >
    > 5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).
    >
    > Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.

    I agree with statements 2,3,4 and somewhat of 5 but your first statement is 100% irrelevant.

    Trs are too broken? I could say gfs are too defensive and too offensive at the sametime and classify that as overpowered(broken) Lol first and for most I only know 2 Trs with 30k +recovery so stop saying every tr is running 30 k recovery and start gathering some actual facts on the matter.

    Secondly your overlooking every aspect of the actual class itself focusing on a select few abilities... Let's teach you a little something your probably unexperienced in.

    Mmorpg games like the game we would classify neverwinter as... all have their version of an assassin class.. correct?

    OK and assassin's main jobs are to assassinate foes within stealth or through incapacitation now correct me if I'm wrong but when Trs were dunking(shocking execution) other players this was considered too overpowered and unbalanced (LoL) when it was clear to me gfs could block it very effectively to where it did barely any damage and other classes could dodge evade or completely negate the skill otherwise.

    Interesting and now we're going to be complaining about SoD another skill that is also avoidable through (blocking,dodging and or counter stealthing)

    Or complaining about 30k recovery something that is almost impossible to achieve for an average pvp player and think about what your saying 30k recovery on a (tr).

    Who's to say 30k recovery on a pally wouldn't be broken or on any other class for that matter. Achieving that high of a stat comes with a price and a lot of work, it's no different from stacking deflect making yourself unkillable to physical damage.

    it's so laughable the amount of ignorance that players develop at the start of character creation screen. The reason we have developers and very wisely chosen developers is for them to do the testing and class judgements. Obviously our opinions as a community matter but when your completely against and 100% attacking something without good enough grounds your opinion will be nothing more then nonsense.

    Trs can only compete against other classes and be considered relevant at 25+k recovery underneath that and they are super vulnerable. I've seen gfs under 11k gs 1 rotate 20k recovery trs with 12k gs, just like I've seen 11k pally's one shot divine judgement 13k gs trs. Your argument is invalid.

    Every class has its pros n cons, it's advantages and weaknesses.

    If something isn't working for you then look towards changing something in your build and question your rotation or maybe consider the fact that the other person actually knows what their doing in terms of skill.

    All I hear is salt coming from people and not enough of self criticism.
    Stop trying to change the game to your liking and actually look for counters,flaws in other people's builds.
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 407Member Arc User
    edited February 25

    > @sh00termcl0vin said:

    > I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:

    >

    > 1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.

    >

    > 2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.

    >

    > 3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.

    >

    > 4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.

    >

    > 5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).

    >

    > Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.



    I agree with statements 2,3,4 and somewhat of 5 but your first statement is 100% irrelevant.



    Trs are too broken? I could say gfs are too defensive and too offensive at the sametime and classify that as overpowered(broken) Lol first and for most I only know 2 Trs with 30k +recovery so stop saying every tr is running 30 k recovery and start gathering some actual facts on the matter.



    Secondly your overlooking every aspect of the actual class itself focusing on a select few abilities... Let's teach you a little something your probably unexperienced in.



    Mmorpg games like the game we would classify neverwinter as... all have their version of an assassin class.. correct?



    OK and assassin's main jobs are to assassinate foes within stealth or through incapacitation now correct me if I'm wrong but when Trs were dunking(shocking execution) other players this was considered too overpowered and unbalanced (LoL) when it was clear to me gfs could block it very effectively to where it did barely any damage and other classes could dodge evade or completely negate the skill otherwise.



    Interesting and now we're going to be complaining about SoD another skill that is also avoidable through (blocking,dodging and or counter stealthing)



    Or complaining about 30k recovery something that is almost impossible to achieve for an average pvp player and think about what your saying 30k recovery on a (tr).



    Who's to say 30k recovery on a pally wouldn't be broken or on any other class for that matter. Achieving that high of a stat comes with a price and a lot of work, it's no different from stacking deflect making yourself unkillable to physical damage.



    it's so laughable the amount of ignorance that players develop at the start of character creation screen. The reason we have developers and very wisely chosen developers is for them to do the testing and class judgements. Obviously our opinions as a community matter but when your completely against and 100% attacking something without good enough grounds your opinion will be nothing more then nonsense.



    Trs can only compete against other classes and be considered relevant at 25+k recovery underneath that and they are super vulnerable. I've seen gfs under 11k gs 1 rotate 20k recovery trs with 12k gs, just like I've seen 11k pally's one shot divine judgement 13k gs trs. Your argument is invalid.



    Every class has its pros n cons, it's advantages and weaknesses.



    If something isn't working for you then look towards changing something in your build and question your rotation or maybe consider the fact that the other person actually knows what their doing in terms of skill.



    All I hear is salt coming from people and not enough of self criticism.

    Stop trying to change the game to your liking and actually look for counters,flaws in other people's builds.

    I couldn't write it better myself :)
    kalina311 said:

    did you know that a cw has a prone on a daily and a stun on an encounter too and a capstone power that does piercing damage ?? why does not one complain about cw : D

    also did you know some power are stuns( whereas other are called interrupts. .. interrupts are essentially CC piercing powers (like some of the broken rings and boons peirce CC ) whereas stuns can be reduced in duration by cc effects

    not all power are coded or label d correctly and they seem to arbitrarily follow these rules

    The duration of cw's prone = 0.5 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of sw's prone = 0.5 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of hr's prone = 1 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of tr's prone = 0.5 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of dc's prone = 0.5 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of of gf's prone = 2 sec without elven enchant.
    The duration of gwf's prone = 1 sec without elven enchant.


    -
    - Future -

    Ring of favor.
    Equip: Your attacks have a chance to prone the enemy for 10 seconds. This duration is halved on all players.
    Sw- 16.8k IL (pvp build)
    TR- 16.2k IL lv70 (pvp build)
    HR- 14.2k IL (pvp build)
    OP- 14.7k IL (pvp build)
    GWF- 15.5k IL (pve build)


  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,265Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:



    1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.



    2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.



    3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.



    4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.



    5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).



    Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.

    We are continuing to make small steps towards better PvP balance. Some of that is difficult because of imbalances in neverwinter as a whole that we are also working towards as balance in both PvE and PvP are concerns.

    As far as TRs, for M14 we have a change in for Shadow of Demise where it will be 75% of MITIGATED damage. This should provide a reduction to the ability in PvP while giving it a boost in PvE. It now also has a small DoT applied to it when it first lands which is a bit of an experiment to see how that feels, allowing it to add some benefit to PvE when things are killed so fast the full proc can't go off, and to help people notice they have SoD on them in PvP.

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes.

    To go with that Smoke Bomb will now respect CC reduction in PvP, meaning the daze will last a shorter duration as you get more stacks of CC reduction, even when you are still standing in the smoke cloud.

    Guardian Fighter got a change to Bull Charge, where it will no longer make a PvP target go prone (no changes to PvE). It will still knock back.

    We continue to explore with different PvP modifiers as well as look for changes we can make for any given module to bring a better sense of balance overall.
    I hope the mitigated part will not be double reduced by level 73 mobs 25% reduction.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • einsiegeinsieg Posts: 84Member Arc User
    edited April 5

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes..

    When you say this, are you talking about a further change that will be made to Shadowborn in M14, or are you speaking about the change that already happened?
  • modlesiemodlesie Posts: 114Member Arc User

    I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:



    1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.



    2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.



    3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.



    4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.



    5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).



    Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.

    We are continuing to make small steps towards better PvP balance. Some of that is difficult because of imbalances in neverwinter as a whole that we are also working towards as balance in both PvE and PvP are concerns.

    As far as TRs, for M14 we have a change in for Shadow of Demise where it will be 75% of MITIGATED damage. This should provide a reduction to the ability in PvP while giving it a boost in PvE. It now also has a small DoT applied to it when it first lands which is a bit of an experiment to see how that feels, allowing it to add some benefit to PvE when things are killed so fast the full proc can't go off, and to help people notice they have SoD on them in PvP.

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes.

    To go with that Smoke Bomb will now respect CC reduction in PvP, meaning the daze will last a shorter duration as you get more stacks of CC reduction, even when you are still standing in the smoke cloud.

    Guardian Fighter got a change to Bull Charge, where it will no longer make a PvP target go prone (no changes to PvE). It will still knock back.

    We continue to explore with different PvP modifiers as well as look for changes we can make for any given module to bring a better sense of balance overall.
    2/3 years too late. PvP is dead already.

    PS. people are talking about pvp changes from module 5. If yours small steps last 2/3 years and it is only a little part of pvp problems in Neverwinter so there will bo no changes to be honest.
  • theguiidotheguiido Posts: 457Member Arc User
    edited April 5

    I Haven't seen an Xbox one mod 12.5 PvP feedback thread yet so I'm making one. Here are my 2 cents regarding the new PvP changes. Feel free to add, agree, disagree with whatever:



    1. TRs continue to be the class with the most burst damage (unavoidable) with shadow of demise, control, survivability and cc in PvP. The "Recovery" (30k plus recovery stat) or "perma cb" rogue can still drop smokebombs back to back while spamming encounter powers/dailies and controlling an entire node, while still being able to kill relatively fast. Also regarding smokebomb, having it add 1 stack per use means you will almost never become immune from one TR doing this. As a result smokebomb is and will continue to be the most overpowered cc effect in the game.



    2. CC diminishing returns does not seem very uniform. Some control effects from items, enchants and boons do not seem to add stacks (thunderhead, curse ring, impenetrable jungle, etc), while others seem to add them too fast ( wizard control powers, trappers, etc). This either results in being CC immune really fast, or stunned for a solid 30 seconds unable to use a power. Initial CC is very strong which is fine, but imo system should be ironed out a little further.



    3. Old school mod 5 feel returns with healing suppression and armor penetration suppression increases. Now you actually have to watch your health, use powers actively to survive, and make tactical retreats when needed. Overall a great job in this regard. Also removal of tenacity is a huge step forward in bringing new players to PvP.



    4. Permanent solo q is great as well despite issues with players not playing and matchmaking issues with team balance. I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix this though because of low pvp player population.



    5. Regarding solo q, certain classes are really strong when stacked on one side of a team, while others seem less so (not taking into account player skill). TRs, GFs, and OPs are tough to kill and can make a match lopsided when there are two on the same team. GWFs, SWs, CWs, and HRs have the opposite effect. DCs are kind of in the middle depending on what build they are (DPS or healing).



    Overall though significantly better than last mod in regards to progress.

    We are continuing to make small steps towards better PvP balance. Some of that is difficult because of imbalances in neverwinter as a whole that we are also working towards as balance in both PvE and PvP are concerns.

    As far as TRs, for M14 we have a change in for Shadow of Demise where it will be 75% of MITIGATED damage. This should provide a reduction to the ability in PvP while giving it a boost in PvE. It now also has a small DoT applied to it when it first lands which is a bit of an experiment to see how that feels, allowing it to add some benefit to PvE when things are killed so fast the full proc can't go off, and to help people notice they have SoD on them in PvP.

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes.

    To go with that Smoke Bomb will now respect CC reduction in PvP, meaning the daze will last a shorter duration as you get more stacks of CC reduction, even when you are still standing in the smoke cloud.

    Guardian Fighter got a change to Bull Charge, where it will no longer make a PvP target go prone (no changes to PvE). It will still knock back.

    We continue to explore with different PvP modifiers as well as look for changes we can make for any given module to bring a better sense of balance overall.
    Guess we'll have to see how it will play out with future patch notes. Knockbaks in Neverwinter are considered prones. So that will be an interesting trick lol. Either going to be a new CC, or a different type of animation or something. Well, they said in PvE it wont change. Man thats weird.

    Just going to have to wait and find out.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • noworries#8859 noworries Posts: 212 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    theguiido said:


    Guess we'll have to see how it will play out with future patch notes. Knockbaks in Neverwinter are considered prones. So that will be an interesting trick lol. Either going to be a new CC, or a different type of animation or something. Well, they said in PvE it wont change. Man thats weird.

    Just going to have to wait and find out.

    We can have a knockback without a prone, but we can't have a prone without a knockback. So allowing the power to still knockback but not have the target go prone isn't particularly tricky.
  • trevor#8542 trevor Posts: 119Member Arc User
    what i dont get is why havent you caome up with a system were the nefs on classes only effect pvp or pve instead of both at the same time. because when trying to make everyone who plays pvp happy you are also making even more people unhappy in pve is there a reason that you havent made these changes to classes separate to one another?
  • sundance777sundance777 Posts: 1,082Member Arc User
    GF two hits, OP unkillable and so is anyone standing near an OP or DC, HR ranged overperforms...
    TR - Sun: 16000 IL
    OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL

    Casual Dailies
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 939Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    We are continuing to make small steps towards better PvP balance. Some of that is difficult because of imbalances in neverwinter as a whole that we are also working towards as balance in both PvE and PvP are concerns.

    As far as TRs, for M14 we have a change in for Shadow of Demise where it will be 75% of MITIGATED damage. This should provide a reduction to the ability in PvP while giving it a boost in PvE. It now also has a small DoT applied to it when it first lands which is a bit of an experiment to see how that feels, allowing it to add some benefit to PvE when things are killed so fast the full proc can't go off, and to help people notice they have SoD on them in PvP.

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes.

    To go with that Smoke Bomb will now respect CC reduction in PvP, meaning the daze will last a shorter duration as you get more stacks of CC reduction, even when you are still standing in the smoke cloud.

    Guardian Fighter got a change to Bull Charge, where it will no longer make a PvP target go prone (no changes to PvE). It will still knock back.

    We continue to explore with different PvP modifiers as well as look for changes we can make for any given module to bring a better sense of balance overall.

    Thanks for taking those small steps! Hope to see more PvP attention in the future :)
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • warravanawarravana Posts: 2Member Arc User
    edited April 7



    Also, there's no denying that there was a significant period of time where PvP wasn't kept up with and that balance, both in PvE and PvP, has run into some problems that got more severe as improvements weren't made to the core issues.

    All these are justifications, which I no longer believe. If it is so difficult to combine the balance of PvP and PvE, then why do they fall equally for a single turn of the GF, that Orkus, that a random player in the arena?

    What kind of love do you have for the GF, that you are strengthening it from module to module and brought it to the point of total absurdity? If the situation with the rogues looks like a simple flaw and developer error, then the situation with the GF is nothing more than a frank spit in the face of the players. And you do not notice it? Would you further strengthen the GF to the following modules or consider the bull nerf to be sufficient?

    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 939Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 7
    warravana said:


    What kind of love do you have for the GF, that you are strengthening it from module to module and brought it to the point of total absurdity? If the situation with the rogues looks like a simple flaw and developer error, then the situation with the GF is nothing more than a frank spit in the face of the players. And you do not notice it? Would you further strengthen the GF to the following modules or consider the bull nerf to be sufficient?

    I think Mimicking plays a GF, and Terramak a TR. Gentlemancrush used to play a CW, but he has been long gone. Whether there is any correlation I do not know, and is pure idle speculation on my part.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • theguiidotheguiido Posts: 457Member Arc User
    edited April 7

    theguiido said:


    Guess we'll have to see how it will play out with future patch notes. Knockbaks in Neverwinter are considered prones. So that will be an interesting trick lol. Either going to be a new CC, or a different type of animation or something. Well, they said in PvE it wont change. Man thats weird.

    Just going to have to wait and find out.

    We can have a knockback without a prone, but we can't have a prone without a knockback. So allowing the power to still knockback but not have the target go prone isn't particularly tricky.
    So they will just be flying in the air like a DC's Sunburst? Thats considered a prone even though they are not knocked back onto the ground. So ?? Is it going to be a Daze or a Stun or something?

    I get what you are saying, but I just don't see how it won't be considered a prone type CC if it's going to mimic Sunburst similarly with the knockback.
    Post edited by theguiido on
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 939Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 7
    theguiido said:

    theguiido said:


    Guess we'll have to see how it will play out with future patch notes. Knockbaks in Neverwinter are considered prones. So that will be an interesting trick lol. Either going to be a new CC, or a different type of animation or something. Well, they said in PvE it wont change. Man thats weird.

    Just going to have to wait and find out.

    We can have a knockback without a prone, but we can't have a prone without a knockback. So allowing the power to still knockback but not have the target go prone isn't particularly tricky.
    So they will just be flying in the air like a DC's Sunburst? Thats considered a prone even though they are not knocked back onto the ground. So ?? Is it going to be a Daze or a Stun or something?

    I get what you are saying, but I just don't see how it won't be considered a prone type CC if it's going to mimic Sunburst similarly with the knockback.
    From the Neverwinter gamepedia: "Prone - Being knocked prone causes the target to fall to the ground. While prone, creatures cannot use abilities or move until they get back up."

    Sunburst never proned anything, so I don't know where you are getting that idea. Your second sentence used the term knockback, that is exactly what it is. He said it is going to be a knockback, so no, it isn't going to be a Daze, or Stun or something.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 407Member Arc User
    theguiido said:

    theguiido said:


    Guess we'll have to see how it will play out with future patch notes. Knockbaks in Neverwinter are considered prones. So that will be an interesting trick lol. Either going to be a new CC, or a different type of animation or something. Well, they said in PvE it wont change. Man thats weird.

    Just going to have to wait and find out.

    We can have a knockback without a prone, but we can't have a prone without a knockback. So allowing the power to still knockback but not have the target go prone isn't particularly tricky.
    So they will just be flying in the air like a DC's Sunburst? Thats considered a prone even though they are not knocked back onto the ground. So ?? Is it going to be a Daze or a Stun or something?

    I get what you are saying, but I just don't see how it won't be considered a prone type CC if it's going to mimic Sunburst similarly with the knockback.
    I think dev meant it's gonna be more like pushing away... you know... something like paladin's relentless avenger hahaha
    Sw- 16.8k IL (pvp build)
    TR- 16.2k IL lv70 (pvp build)
    HR- 14.2k IL (pvp build)
    OP- 14.7k IL (pvp build)
    GWF- 15.5k IL (pve build)


  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 407Member Arc User

    macjae said:

    We are continuing to make small steps towards better PvP balance. Some of that is difficult because of imbalances in neverwinter as a whole that we are also working towards as balance in both PvE and PvP are concerns.

    As far as TRs, for M14 we have a change in for Shadow of Demise where it will be 75% of MITIGATED damage. This should provide a reduction to the ability in PvP while giving it a boost in PvE. It now also has a small DoT applied to it when it first lands which is a bit of an experiment to see how that feels, allowing it to add some benefit to PvE when things are killed so fast the full proc can't go off, and to help people notice they have SoD on them in PvP.

    Shadowborn got a slight boost to go with these changes.

    To go with that Smoke Bomb will now respect CC reduction in PvP, meaning the daze will last a shorter duration as you get more stacks of CC reduction, even when you are still standing in the smoke cloud.

    Guardian Fighter got a change to Bull Charge, where it will no longer make a PvP target go prone (no changes to PvE). It will still knock back.

    We continue to explore with different PvP modifiers as well as look for changes we can make for any given module to bring a better sense of balance overall.

    Module 14 is still a long way off. So PvP will remain all but unplayable any time you face a TR for all of module 13?

    The change to SoD and Smoke Bomb also isn't really going to be quite sufficient to fix TRs, as they will still remain far too hard to kill in between all their other survival tools. Their encounter powers should hit harder and they should rely more on those for damage, while being less able to survive through anything through stealth, umpteen long dodges and near-invulnerability courtesy of extremely strong Deflection and ITC.

    Also, the biggest likely beneficiary of the latter change in particular is going to be GWFs, a class that doesn't really need to be much better in PvP, so I hope these aren't the only changes planned.
    M13 has been live on PC for a little while now, so hopefully it isn't too much of a surprise that these changes are not in M13.

    Certainly everyone would always prefer changes and improvements sooner, including us. Console gets even more of a delay as we go through certifications and everything else required to launch our updates onto console. It is never as simple as "we'd love to get that change in so let's just do it right now". I can tell you that even right now there is a list of things I wish I could fix/adjust/change and push into an M13 update, it just doesn't work that way.

    Also, there's no denying that there was a significant period of time where PvP wasn't kept up with and that balance, both in PvE and PvP, has run into some problems that got more severe as improvements weren't made to the core issues.

    That said, as the initial post indicated, we did go through and make some initial changes to PvP settings to help direct things back towards a goal of balance. I'm not suggesting that the changes I listed above solve all the rogue issues, and certainly not all the PvP issues. They are some adjustments to work things in the right direction. We aren't shooting for one set of changes that makes everything "perfect" as that isn't realistic. We are looking more at a series of adjustments, without overshooting, that keep working it closer and closer to a better spot.

    There are other issues with balance that are game wide. With those, we wouldn't want to make a change just to try and address it in PvP because the issue still remains in PvE. Then when we address it for PvE, we have to readdress it for PvP and the variables continue to shift.

    There will be more balance adjustments in M15 and M16 (everything in the universe is subject to change at any time, but that is the current direction). It is going to be some time and some work to get it into a really good place and we have to balance that with all of the other work that is needed for all aspects of the game.
    Great.. more nerfs here and there just to balance something that's not possible in this game.
    Everytime you nerf something such as ... CC in pvp mod 12b.. you bring something new into the game such as... stun boons, rings, pants, enchants, etc, etc that ruins pvp more. Does cryptic even know how pvp is in its current state?

    Whatever you nerf on tr... non tr players will never be happy.
    Tr's stealth is op, nerf it.
    Tr's sod is op, nerf it.
    Tr's dodge is op, nerf it.
    Tr's movements are op, nerf it.
    Tr's way of looking at me is op, nerf it.
    Tr's are just op... remove it from game !

    Sw- 16.8k IL (pvp build)
    TR- 16.2k IL lv70 (pvp build)
    HR- 14.2k IL (pvp build)
    OP- 14.7k IL (pvp build)
    GWF- 15.5k IL (pve build)


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