Lower the costs to make rank 12 enchantments.

defiantone99

I think it would be great if the extra enchantments needed for upgrading would no longer be required. Also, lowering the amount of RP needed to go from 10 to 12, and lowering the cost of Superior Marks is needed. It is time to end the gear gap. For the sake of PVP, retaining new players and bringing back old players, please do this. It costs 10s of millions of AD to get all rank 12s, not including utility. This has to change.

urabask

Would rather see them just remove the need for two enchants at r9->r10 (make it 1 smop or something) and increase the success rate across the board. IMO fixed costs like SMoPs are fine whereas having to gamble with preservation wards can increase the price of an enchant pretty dramatically. Sometimes you're looking at over half of the cost to make an enchant being pres wards even.

mifiisu

It's cheap enough to get them to R10 tbh. And after that you no longer require the double enchantments for upgrades. I'd reconsider the number of superiors needed after that tho

oldbaldyone

There is nothing in game currently that really requires rank 12s. Making them more accessible would make even more content trivial.

While I can't say I like rng or the refinement process as a whole, to have a successful MMO there has to be things that are challenging to get. R12s are a stretch goal that is not required, but is a carrot on a stick goal to keep people playing and paying.

asterotg

Lets see this as a business. They can either HAMSTER off the ppl who have R 12s and most likely paid money, by devaluing their investment and make it easier for ppl, to get BIS. Trivializing all content in PvE, to even the matches in PvP or keep things as they are.

My guess is, not going to happen.

urabask

asterotg said:

Lets see this as a business. They can either HAMSTER off the ppl who have R 12s and most likely paid money, by devaluing their investment and make it easier for ppl, to get BIS. Trivializing all content in PvE, to even the matches in PvP or keep things as they are.

My guess is, not going to happen.

What, you mean like they did with the gmop price change? And nothing really happened? Oh.

namelesshero347

If they fix the RNG, that alone will lower the cost. After burning 150+ pres wards for an R12 on multiple occasions, I have to say the 3% upgrade chance is BS.

asterotg

urabask said:

asterotg said:

Lets see this as a business. They can either HAMSTER off the ppl who have R 12s and most likely paid money, by devaluing their investment and make it easier for ppl, to get BIS. Trivializing all content in PvE, to even the matches in PvP or keep things as they are.

My guess is, not going to happen.

What, you mean like they did with the gmop price change? And nothing really happened? Oh.

Well, I know of some ppl who stopped playing after they implemented these changes. GMOPs were the running currency for buying/ selling things aside the AH. Some lost +100 kk AD bc of these changes. The fact, that you dont know someone who was impacted from this change, is no evidence, that these changes did have no impact.

Everything is sun and rainbows. The fact, that 90% of the long time players I know stopped playing in the last year is mere coincidence. The fact, that the PvE and PvP community melted down to a fraction of their former numbers is a rumor and ppl who spent thousands of dollars LOVE the devaluation of their investment for the good of the community.

BTW this was sarcasm.

urabask

asterotg said:

urabask said:

asterotg said:

Lets see this as a business. They can either HAMSTER off the ppl who have R 12s and most likely paid money, by devaluing their investment and make it easier for ppl, to get BIS. Trivializing all content in PvE, to even the matches in PvP or keep things as they are.

My guess is, not going to happen.

What, you mean like they did with the gmop price change? And nothing really happened? Oh.

Well, I know of some ppl who stopped playing after they implemented these changes. GMOPs were the running currency for buying/ selling things aside the AH. Some lost +100 kk AD bc of these changes. The fact, that you dont know someone who was impacted from this change, is no evidence, that these changes did have no impact.

Everything is sun and rainbows. The fact, that 90% of the long time players I know stopped playing in the last year is mere coincidence. The fact, that the PvE and PvP community melted down to a fraction of their former numbers is a rumor and ppl who spent thousands of dollars LOVE the devaluation of their investment for the good of the community.

BTW this was sarcasm.

A few whales got burnt because they tried to game the system and things went on as usual.

And it was a blip on the radar for player numbers.

ghoulz66

I am sticking with rank 9s. It becomes criminally insane to keep up with 6 characters' upgrade costs.

Game requires too many $&@&in $&%# wards.

plasticbat

My problem with the enchantment upgrade is RNG. RP, I can farm. Mark, I can farm. P-ward, C-ward, I sort of can farm but not effective and I still hate the RNG. Without the frustration of RNG (not because I don't have enough p-ward but because I hate the frustration of the process), I would have many r12 already. Once, it reaches r11, I consider home free because I would use a c-ward.

pterias

I think they should just remove the requirement for an extra enchant to create r10 or lower. That would help a lot, especially for weapon and armor enchants. Reducing SMoP prices to 50k would also be nice. I think the amount of refinement points is ok though. It's pretty high, but doable.

As for burning through pres wards, there is a trick that helps me dramatically. Move your character forward a ways between every try. It takes a long time, but it makes the % chance actually work right, if not better. The RNG seems to be re-seeded by moving. If you stand still, that's when the RNG starts streaking. That's why you can blow 10 wards on a 90% upgrade. Also, never open / upgrade anything near a bank, mailbox, anywhere near a campfire, and never EVER when you first log on to a character! (bank / mailbox / campfire are my superstitions, but the first logon thing is real, I swear it)

My personal recent history using this method is upgrading 3 enchants from r11 to r12 using 28 pres wards over the weekend, and upgrading 9 enchants to r11 or r12 in January using about 120 pres wards from winterfest. Might not be enough to be truly statistically significant, but I'm sold on it.

strathkin

I admit I was VERY happy to see them reduce the cost of Greater Mark of Potency's to 25k and I have no problem if a Superior Mark is 100k as it's very achievable with a little bit of saving and patience. I do however see your point however that asking for an extra Rank 10 if your trying to upgrade a Rank 10 enchant is a 'bit' of insult to injury especially when you think how many other rank 10's or countless Rank 5's, 6's or even Thau' stones you alone had to just REFINE into it to get it ready to upgrade to Rank 11.

Still I don't think that will change soon unless someone surprises me as it's been that way for some time and honestly I'd be FAR HAPPIER AS WOULD EVERYBODY if they INCREASED THE UPGRADE CHANCE for a success refinement upgrade of all Enchants, Artifacts, and Gear by 1/3rd of the existing %. I'd also be happier if Preservation Ward's & Coalescent Ward's dropped a *little* more frequently from Celestial Enchant Chests from Praying, and were removed out Celestial Artifact & Artifact Gear chests but added possibly blue or epic power, stability or union stones to one of them. It seems 2 of the last 3 poster's on this topic agree with me on the preservation or coalescent ward's, but increasing the upgrade chance also helps you burn a *few* less of the ones that you do have.

Trying to get a Blue Artifact to Purple only give's a 25% chance but 1/3 of that is 8.25% so be nice to see that increased to least 33.25%. While this mostly helps people a little for EPIC Artifacts or Gear it also help to encourage upgrading of more Rank 6/7/8/9 enchants as they'd be slightly more successful in upgrading mid end gear or enchantments.

Orange Artifact's only give a 10% chance and a 1/3 increase would increase the chance to 13.3%, or Mythic which is 5% would increase to 6.65%; while that seem like a minor adjustment it would all is helpful and something they'd consider.

So I'd think it be NICE for a better chance of successful UPGRADE. We'd save a few perhaps not many preservation ward's or coalescent ward's, still at the same time by no mean's would it make them obsolete or not highly prized items. I just wish a few more of them would drop from Celestial Chest's of Enchants with each chest more focused reward payout. Minor stones or Pearls should mostly be earned from NPC drop's or chests in dungeons and possibly in sometimes larger quantities than 1, and certainly not from HE encounters in IWD or other 70+ campaign area's as those should be at least Peridot's. Even Sharandar award's uncommon thua stone's in each adventure for the 3 daily missions which start's at 64.

Each of the Celestial Chests should have a better FOCUS. Still I'd be happy if the requirement for duplicate enchantments were no longer required, like a fully refined rank 10 requiring a refining stones of a rank 10 and superior mark of potency, or if they just increased the chance of updating items/gear and gave better chance to earn wards.

strathkin

defiantone99 said:

All upgrade chances are 50/50 except 1%. Upping the chances would solve nothing. I have made many rank 12s with no wards. The costs have to come down.

I don't know what you've done to get all upgrades at 50% chance cause even Rank 8 Enchantment's give but a 25% chance of upgrading and those would be increased to 33.25%. Still *I think* more would like to see upgrade chances improved along with a *few* more ward's dropping from celestial chests. The few item's that grant a 1% chance are Shard Enchantments.

I assure you though it should be at least for Artifacts & Gear: 25% chance at EPIC, 10% chance at Legendary, and 5% chance at Mythic. I identified the upgrade chances for a Rank 7 to Rank 8 Enchantment above.

Certainly not aware of any Rank 11 enchants that give anywhere close to a 50/50 chance to upgrade to Rank 12 as you indicate saying you've made many rank 12's with no ward's? Unless their is some BUG or unknown VIP feature that is changing upgrade chances for some but not others? Shard's which are Rank 6 Enchants do give a 1% chance but you often can earn several per day, and IF successful upgrade into Rank 7 Weapon Enchantments or Armor Enchantments worth a lot of AD. Those are also unavailable for use before Rank 7

plasticbat

defiantone99 said:

I am saying that even at 25 percent, you can burn a hundred wards. The numbers are misleading. Upping them does not change much. It is RNG, or luck.

Well, that is extreme and I don't know that actually happened. Personally, I hate it if the tries hit 10 but one hundred?

plasticbat

strathkin said:

I do however see your point however that asking for an extra Rank 10 if your trying to upgrade a Rank 10 enchant is a 'bit' of insult to injury especially when you think how many other rank 10's or countless Rank 5's, 6's or even Thau' stones you alone had to just REFINE into it to get it ready to upgrade to Rank 11.

You don't need an extra rank 10 to upgrade a rank 10 to rank 11.

strathkin

defiantone99 said:

I am saying that even at 25 percent, you can burn a hundred wards. The numbers are misleading. Upping them does not change much. It is RNG, or luck.

Well I will agree that sometimes the RNG (Random Number God / Goddess) seems to grant extremely good or bad luck at times, but I suspect that's in the total # of attempts it does average out to the upgrade chance identified or at least it should. I sometimes ask the question when I use a skill node that has a 75% chance of success and it fail's 3 or 4 consecutive attempts, but on the flip side there's also been times where I couldn't remember it having failed.

plasticbat

I prefer to get rid of the RNG. Yes, cost is one thing. However, the frustration is the part that really bothers me. As I said, I have enough p-ward but I really don't want to deal with the frustration. Even 10 tries for 25% frustrates me. Using your example, I don't want to do 100 times even if p-ward is priced next to free.

strathkin

I think RNG overall despite the odd extremely lucky or unlucky streak which can occurs at times, at least in the greater picture averages out to the percentages being identified by cryptic. I do think RNG has -yes- I can't believe I'm saying this 'value' and adds suspense and mystery to the whole upgrade process, making it seem more mysterious/magical and I wouldn't want to see it gone, despite often sometimes being sad when it fails.

So I say to plasticbat I think your a good guy and agree in principle with what your saying, but without RNG we wouldn't feel really amazing when it succeeds, yet believe if chances were improved a little it be less frustrating! I agree with defiantone99 that more should be done to lowering of costs a little especially when some have 4, 5, and often many more character's they want to play more frequently. More end game content now requires higher and higher GS to play let alone even to participate in.

Some of that could come from more focused & better reward's offered by the God's from Celestial Chests, as well as increasing our upgrade chances for EPIC, Legendary and Mythic upgrades as suggested above. After all when Sharandar offer's 3 uncommon thauma (unbound) or 9 at all 3 gate's it's sad if prayer's reward a minor stone or rank 4 enchant; at endgame Rank 5's drop not often but they drop from a Enemy and their no God.



A new Celestial Enchantment Chest single category of reward (lower & to right drop less frequent):
Uncommon/Rare/EPIC Thauma Stone(s) (unbound)
Preservation/Coalescent Ward : increased chances than today (account bound)

A new Celestial Artifact Equipment 1 of:
Uncommon/Rare/EPIC Resonance Stone(s) (account bound)
Uncommon/Rare/EPIC Mark of Power/Stability/Union (unbound)

Celestial Artifact 1 of:
Peridot/Aqua/Saphire/Opal (account bound)
Uncommon/Rare/EPIC Power/Stability/Union Stone (unbound)

plasticbat

strathkin said:

I think RNG overall despite the odd extremely lucky or unlucky streak which can occurs at times, at least in the greater picture averages out to the percentages identified.

Based on my observation for a long time, in my opinion, the RNG number stuck for a limited time frame. That is within that time frame, it gives you (and anyone using the same RNG instance) the same number.
I suspect the number is cached for a while before getting a new one.

That can explain why you open the skill node and fails N times in a row. For me, that usually happens in solo dungeon.
That can explain why I can consistently get 5 to 6 green RP in a row if I click very fast (I only do these RNG stuff in a lone instance).